VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. - VMS

This is a discussion on VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. - VMS ; In article , AEF writes: > On Mar 14, 1:27 pm, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: >> In article , >> Jan-Erik Söderholm writes: >> >> >> >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> >> In article , >> >> "Richard B. ...

+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 119

Thread: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

  1. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article <53e898bc-8c31-4040-bc98-6042d6790afd@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
    AEF writes:
    > On Mar 14, 1:27 pm, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
    >> In article ,
    >> Jan-Erik Söderholm writes:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >> >> In article <47DABD5F.2060...@comcast.net>,
    >> >> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    >> >>> This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm!
    >> >>> Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or received
    >> >>> VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt the need to
    >> >>> do so.

    >>
    >> > You're right of course. It must have been > 15 years since I last
    >> > sent or received a personal mail using VMS-Mail. Person-to-person.
    >> > I do have some automatied routines that sends notifications and so
    >> > on, thought...

    >>
    >> >> You have never sent anyone an email with a personal URL: in it? You
    >> >> can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it? Interesting.

    >>
    >> >> bill

    >>
    >> > Never using VMS mail.
    >> > And *sending* isn't a problem, is it ?

    >>
    >> Well, it is if you expect the person on the other end to actually see
    >> usable information. I know for a fact that if a somneone here got an
    >> Email that displayed a "$" in a URL: they wanted to get to they would
    >> type exactly what they saw on the screen. And then come to me when it
    >> doesn't work. :-) Or are you saying no one is still using VMS anyway
    >> so it is a non-problem.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> > > You can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it?

    >>
    >> > Using VT-based VMS-Mail? In the future? Joke of the week... :-) :-)

    >>
    >> OK, you are admiting that VMS is dead or at least dying. I thought
    >> we had a bunch of people here who still sing the praises of VMS with
    >> VT-terminals. What else is supported as a VMS only solution? And if
    >> you send email to a known VMS user, what assumptions do you make about
    >> how they read their email?

    > For this VMS should be abandonded? Because of a single thing: mail?


    Well, how many more pieces of VMS need to become deliberately broken
    before you finally give up? My main point was if you have to use
    some other OS in order to use VMS, why not just move everything to
    the other OS instead of living with the added expense and complexity
    of a heterogenous shop? If VMS can no longer stand on its own, how
    much longer do you expect it to survive?

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> > I can't see anyone but some die-hard hobbyists (if they
    >> > don't switch to Mac) doing that...

    >>
    >> So, the way I see it, the concensus seems to be that VMS can't be
    >> used without other systems running other OSes to provide all the
    >> missing pieces. So then, why bother with VMS instead of a homogenous
    >> installation with less complexity and upkeep? I believe end of the
    >> era is in sight.

    > So I guess we should all switch everything to Windows.


    If you wish. :-) I certainly haven't.

    > And Outlook is something to brag about?


    Don't know, never tried it. Probably never will.

    > This is a selling point?


    Seems to be for MS.

    > Bill, what does Unix offer for mail?


    Is this a serious question? There are more MUA's for Unix than I can
    even count. Everything from Text based to graphical. And then, there
    are also these things called web browsers that can either access email
    directly using POP or IMAP or using an interface served up by a web
    server.

    > Are office people going to be
    > running from a Unix prompt?


    Not likely, that's what seems to be killing VMS the fastest. Lack of
    an alternative to the DCL prompt combined with deliberatley breaking
    the text based products.

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  2. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    On Mar 15, 1:15 pm, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
    > In article <53e898bc-8c31-4040-bc98-6042d6790...@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
    > AEF writes:
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Mar 14, 1:27 pm, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
    > >> In article ,
    > >> Jan-Erik Söderholm writes:

    >
    > >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    > >> >> In article <47DABD5F.2060...@comcast.net>,
    > >> >> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    > >> >>> This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm!
    > >> >>> Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or received
    > >> >>> VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt the need to
    > >> >>> do so.

    >
    > >> > You're right of course. It must have been > 15 years since I last
    > >> > sent or received a personal mail using VMS-Mail. Person-to-person.
    > >> > I do have some automatied routines that sends notifications and so
    > >> > on, thought...

    >
    > >> >> You have never sent anyone an email with a personal URL: in it? You
    > >> >> can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it? Interesting.

    >
    > >> >> bill

    >
    > >> > Never using VMS mail.
    > >> > And *sending* isn't a problem, is it ?

    >
    > >> Well, it is if you expect the person on the other end to actually see
    > >> usable information. I know for a fact that if a somneone here got an
    > >> Email that displayed a "$" in a URL: they wanted to get to they would
    > >> type exactly what they saw on the screen. And then come to me when it
    > >> doesn't work. :-) Or are you saying no one is still using VMS anyway
    > >> so it is a non-problem.

    >
    > >> > > You can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it?

    >
    > >> > Using VT-based VMS-Mail? In the future? Joke of the week... :-) :-)

    >
    > >> OK, you are admiting that VMS is dead or at least dying. I thought
    > >> we had a bunch of people here who still sing the praises of VMS with
    > >> VT-terminals. What else is supported as a VMS only solution? And if
    > >> you send email to a known VMS user, what assumptions do you make about
    > >> how they read their email?

    > > For this VMS should be abandonded? Because of a single thing: mail?

    >
    > Well, how many more pieces of VMS need to become deliberately broken
    > before you finally give up? My main point was if you have to use
    > some other OS in order to use VMS, why not just move everything to
    > the other OS instead of living with the added expense and complexity
    > of a heterogenous shop? If VMS can no longer stand on its own, how
    > much longer do you expect it to survive?


    Here you were concentrating on mail.

    >
    >
    >
    > >> > I can't see anyone but some die-hard hobbyists (if they
    > >> > don't switch to Mac) doing that...

    >
    > >> So, the way I see it, the concensus seems to be that VMS can't be
    > >> used without other systems running other OSes to provide all the
    > >> missing pieces. So then, why bother with VMS instead of a homogenous
    > >> installation with less complexity and upkeep? I believe end of the
    > >> era is in sight.

    > > So I guess we should all switch everything to Windows.

    >
    > If you wish. :-) I certainly haven't.
    >
    > > And Outlook is something to brag about?

    >
    > Don't know, never tried it. Probably never will.
    >
    > > This is a selling point?

    >
    > Seems to be for MS.
    >
    > > Bill, what does Unix offer for mail?

    >
    > Is this a serious question? There are more MUA's for Unix than I can
    > even count. Everything from Text based to graphical. And then, there
    > are also these things called web browsers that can either access email
    > directly using POP or IMAP or using an interface served up by a web
    > server.


    That's FOR Unix. Does Unix offer them? We were talking OSes here. I
    was just asking and now I ask this: Who makes those MUA's?

    Anyway, JF Mezei mentioned Netscape/Mozilla on DECwindows.

    And mail is hardly a must-have for every system. Many lotteries run on
    VMS. I heard EZPass runs on VMS. Lack of mail is hardly a problem
    there.

    >
    > > Are office people going to be
    > > running from a Unix prompt?

    >
    > Not likely, that's what seems to be killing VMS the fastest. Lack of
    > an alternative to the DCL prompt combined with deliberatley breaking
    > the text based products.


    There's other things besides the world of desktops.

    >
    > bill
    >
    > --
    > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    > billg...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    > University of Scranton |
    > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include


    AEF

  3. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    On Mar 15, 12:25 am, Kilgal...@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:
    > In article <47DABD5F.2060...@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    >
    > > This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm!
    > > Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or received
    > > VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt the need to
    > > do so.

    >
    > I regularly receive email containing URLs with an embedded tilde,
    > which I have to replace after copy and paste.


    I've often used the twiddle character (tiled) as the symbol for
    approximate.

    It weighs ~ 40 lbs., e.g. It is also the symbol for "is proportional
    to", IIRC. Rather poor choice for a control character.

    AEF

  4. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    On Mar 15, 1:38 pm, AEF wrote:
    > On Mar 15, 1:15 pm, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > In article <53e898bc-8c31-4040-bc98-6042d6790...@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
    > > AEF writes:

    >
    > > > On Mar 14, 1:27 pm, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
    > > >> In article ,
    > > >> Jan-Erik Söderholm writes:

    >
    > > >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    > > >> >> In article <47DABD5F.2060...@comcast.net>,
    > > >> >> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    > > >> >>> This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm!
    > > >> >>> Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or received
    > > >> >>> VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt the need to
    > > >> >>> do so.

    >
    > > >> > You're right of course. It must have been > 15 years since I last
    > > >> > sent or received a personal mail using VMS-Mail. Person-to-person.
    > > >> > I do have some automatied routines that sends notifications and so
    > > >> > on, thought...

    >
    > > >> >> You have never sent anyone an email with a personal URL: in it? You
    > > >> >> can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it? Interesting.

    >
    > > >> >> bill

    >
    > > >> > Never using VMS mail.
    > > >> > And *sending* isn't a problem, is it ?

    >
    > > >> Well, it is if you expect the person on the other end to actually see
    > > >> usable information. I know for a fact that if a somneone here got an
    > > >> Email that displayed a "$" in a URL: they wanted to get to they would
    > > >> type exactly what they saw on the screen. And then come to me when it
    > > >> doesn't work. :-) Or are you saying no one is still using VMS anyway
    > > >> so it is a non-problem.

    >
    > > >> > > You can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it?

    >
    > > >> > Using VT-based VMS-Mail? In the future? Joke of the week... :-) :-)

    >
    > > >> OK, you are admiting that VMS is dead or at least dying. I thought
    > > >> we had a bunch of people here who still sing the praises of VMS with
    > > >> VT-terminals. What else is supported as a VMS only solution? And if
    > > >> you send email to a known VMS user, what assumptions do you make about
    > > >> how they read their email?
    > > > For this VMS should be abandonded? Because of a single thing: mail?

    >
    > > Well, how many more pieces of VMS need to become deliberately broken
    > > before you finally give up? My main point was if you have to use
    > > some other OS in order to use VMS, why not just move everything to
    > > the other OS instead of living with the added expense and complexity
    > > of a heterogenous shop? If VMS can no longer stand on its own, how
    > > much longer do you expect it to survive?

    >
    > Here you were concentrating on mail.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > >> > I can't see anyone but some die-hard hobbyists (if they
    > > >> > don't switch to Mac) doing that...

    >
    > > >> So, the way I see it, the concensus seems to be that VMS can't be
    > > >> used without other systems running other OSes to provide all the
    > > >> missing pieces. So then, why bother with VMS instead of a homogenous
    > > >> installation with less complexity and upkeep? I believe end of the
    > > >> era is in sight.
    > > > So I guess we should all switch everything to Windows.

    >
    > > If you wish. :-) I certainly haven't.

    >
    > > > And Outlook is something to brag about?

    >
    > > Don't know, never tried it. Probably never will.

    >
    > > > This is a selling point?

    >
    > > Seems to be for MS.

    >
    > > > Bill, what does Unix offer for mail?

    >
    > > Is this a serious question? There are more MUA's for Unix than I can
    > > even count. Everything from Text based to graphical. And then, there
    > > are also these things called web browsers that can either access email
    > > directly using POP or IMAP or using an interface served up by a web
    > > server.

    >
    > That's FOR Unix. Does Unix offer them? We were talking OSes here. I
    > was just asking and now I ask this: Who makes those MUA's?
    >
    > Anyway, JF Mezei mentioned Netscape/Mozilla on DECwindows.
    >
    > And mail is hardly a must-have for every system. Many lotteries run on
    > VMS. I heard EZPass runs on VMS. Lack of mail is hardly a problem
    > there.
    >
    >
    >
    > > > Are office people going to be
    > > > running from a Unix prompt?

    >
    > > Not likely, that's what seems to be killing VMS the fastest. Lack of
    > > an alternative to the DCL prompt combined with deliberatley breaking
    > > the text based products.

    >
    > There's other things besides the world of desktops.
    >
    >
    >
    > > bill

    >
    > > --
    > > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    > > billg...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    > > University of Scranton |
    > > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

    >
    > AEF


    Oh, belated VMS-sighting: Fortunoff uses VMS for their bridal
    registry! They have actual VT510's in their stores for customers to
    register. I swear seeing OpenVMS Alpha or something close to that on
    the screen maybe 1, 2, or 3 years ago.

    AEF

  5. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    On Mar 15, 1:15 pm, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
    > In article <53e898bc-8c31-4040-bc98-6042d6790...@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
    > AEF writes:
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Mar 14, 1:27 pm, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
    > >> In article ,
    > >> Jan-Erik Söderholm writes:

    >
    > >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    > >> >> In article <47DABD5F.2060...@comcast.net>,
    > >> >> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    > >> >>> This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm!
    > >> >>> Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or received
    > >> >>> VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt the need to
    > >> >>> do so.

    >
    > >> > You're right of course. It must have been > 15 years since I last
    > >> > sent or received a personal mail using VMS-Mail. Person-to-person.
    > >> > I do have some automatied routines that sends notifications and so
    > >> > on, thought...

    >
    > >> >> You have never sent anyone an email with a personal URL: in it? You
    > >> >> can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it? Interesting.

    >
    > >> >> bill

    >
    > >> > Never using VMS mail.
    > >> > And *sending* isn't a problem, is it ?

    >
    > >> Well, it is if you expect the person on the other end to actually see
    > >> usable information. I know for a fact that if a somneone here got an
    > >> Email that displayed a "$" in a URL: they wanted to get to they would
    > >> type exactly what they saw on the screen. And then come to me when it
    > >> doesn't work. :-) Or are you saying no one is still using VMS anyway
    > >> so it is a non-problem.

    >
    > >> > > You can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it?

    >
    > >> > Using VT-based VMS-Mail? In the future? Joke of the week... :-) :-)

    >
    > >> OK, you are admiting that VMS is dead or at least dying. I thought
    > >> we had a bunch of people here who still sing the praises of VMS with
    > >> VT-terminals. What else is supported as a VMS only solution? And if
    > >> you send email to a known VMS user, what assumptions do you make about
    > >> how they read their email?

    > > For this VMS should be abandonded? Because of a single thing: mail?

    >
    > Well, how many more pieces of VMS need to become deliberately broken
    > before you finally give up? My main point was if you have to use
    > some other OS in order to use VMS, why not just move everything to
    > the other OS instead of living with the added expense and complexity
    > of a heterogenous shop? If VMS can no longer stand on its own, how
    > much longer do you expect it to survive?
    >
    >
    >
    > >> > I can't see anyone but some die-hard hobbyists (if they
    > >> > don't switch to Mac) doing that...

    >
    > >> So, the way I see it, the concensus seems to be that VMS can't be
    > >> used without other systems running other OSes to provide all the
    > >> missing pieces. So then, why bother with VMS instead of a homogenous
    > >> installation with less complexity and upkeep? I believe end of the
    > >> era is in sight.

    > > So I guess we should all switch everything to Windows.

    >
    > If you wish. :-) I certainly haven't.
    >
    > > And Outlook is something to brag about?

    >
    > Don't know, never tried it. Probably never will.
    >
    > > This is a selling point?

    >
    > Seems to be for MS.
    >
    > > Bill, what does Unix offer for mail?

    >
    > Is this a serious question? There are more MUA's for Unix than I can
    > even count. Everything from Text based to graphical. And then, there
    > are also these things called web browsers that can either access email
    > directly using POP or IMAP or using an interface served up by a web
    > server.


    So if people wrote some MUA's for VMS, it'd be the same. You bragging
    about add-ons for Unix but blaming VMS for not itself avoiding the
    need for the same. Please. AEF

    >
    > > Are office people going to be
    > > running from a Unix prompt?

    >
    > Not likely, that's what seems to be killing VMS the fastest. Lack of
    > an alternative to the DCL prompt combined with deliberatley breaking
    > the text based products.
    >
    > bill
    >
    > --
    > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    > billg...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    > University of Scranton |
    > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include



  6. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    On Mar 14, 1:27 pm, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
    > In article ,
    > Jan-Erik Söderholm writes:
    >
    >
    >
    > > Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    > >> In article <47DABD5F.2060...@comcast.net>,
    > >> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    > >>> This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm!
    > >>> Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or received
    > >>> VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt the need to
    > >>> do so.

    >
    > > You're right of course. It must have been > 15 years since I last
    > > sent or received a personal mail using VMS-Mail. Person-to-person.
    > > I do have some automatied routines that sends notifications and so
    > > on, thought...

    >
    > >> You have never sent anyone an email with a personal URL: in it? You
    > >> can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it? Interesting.

    >
    > >> bill

    >
    > > Never using VMS mail.
    > > And *sending* isn't a problem, is it ?

    >
    > Well, it is if you expect the person on the other end to actually see
    > usable information. I know for a fact that if a somneone here got an
    > Email that displayed a "$" in a URL: they wanted to get to they would
    > type exactly what they saw on the screen. And then come to me when it
    > doesn't work. :-) Or are you saying no one is still using VMS anyway
    > so it is a non-problem.
    >
    >
    >
    > > > You can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it?

    >
    > > Using VT-based VMS-Mail? In the future? Joke of the week... :-) :-)

    >
    > OK, you are admiting that VMS is dead or at least dying. I thought
    > we had a bunch of people here who still sing the praises of VMS with
    > VT-terminals. What else is supported as a VMS only solution? And if
    > you send email to a known VMS user, what assumptions do you make about
    > how they read their email?
    >
    >
    >
    > > I can't see anyone but some die-hard hobbyists (if they
    > > don't switch to Mac) doing that...

    >
    > So, the way I see it, the concensus seems to be that VMS can't be
    > used without other systems running other OSes to provide all the
    > missing pieces. So then, why bother with VMS instead of a homogenous
    > installation with less complexity and upkeep?


    How about all the anti-virus, anti-spamware, etc. people have to add
    on to Windows? Talk about adding complexity and upkeep!

    I guess then we should convert everything to Linux, since that's the
    only OS I'm aware of that in common use for both back-end and front-
    end (desktop).



    I believe end of the
    > era is in sight.
    >
    > bill
    >
    > --
    > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    > billg...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    > University of Scranton |
    > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include



  7. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article <3787501e-fef8-407c-99ee-e07b1b6f1e4d@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
    AEF writes:
    > On Mar 15, 1:15 pm, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
    >> In article <53e898bc-8c31-4040-bc98-6042d6790...@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
    >> AEF writes:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> > On Mar 14, 1:27 pm, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
    >> >> In article ,
    >> >> Jan-Erik Söderholm writes:

    >>
    >> >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >> >> >> In article <47DABD5F.2060...@comcast.net>,
    >> >> >> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    >> >> >>> This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm!
    >> >> >>> Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or received
    >> >> >>> VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt the need to
    >> >> >>> do so.

    >>
    >> >> > You're right of course. It must have been > 15 years since I last
    >> >> > sent or received a personal mail using VMS-Mail. Person-to-person.
    >> >> > I do have some automatied routines that sends notifications and so
    >> >> > on, thought...

    >>
    >> >> >> You have never sent anyone an email with a personal URL: in it? You>> >> >> can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it? Interesting.

    >>
    >> >> >> bill

    >>
    >> >> > Never using VMS mail.
    >> >> > And *sending* isn't a problem, is it ?

    >>
    >> >> Well, it is if you expect the person on the other end to actually see
    >> >> usable information. I know for a fact that if a somneone here got an
    >> >> Email that displayed a "$" in a URL: they wanted to get to they would
    >> >> type exactly what they saw on the screen. And then come to me when it
    >> >> doesn't work. :-) Or are you saying no one is still using VMS anyway
    >> >> so it is a non-problem.

    >>
    >> >> > > You can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it?

    >>
    >> >> > Using VT-based VMS-Mail? In the future? Joke of the week... :-) :-)

    >>
    >> >> OK, you are admiting that VMS is dead or at least dying. I thought
    >> >> we had a bunch of people here who still sing the praises of VMS with
    >> >> VT-terminals. What else is supported as a VMS only solution? And if
    >> >> you send email to a known VMS user, what assumptions do you make about
    >> >> how they read their email?
    >> > For this VMS should be abandonded? Because of a single thing: mail?

    >>
    >> Well, how many more pieces of VMS need to become deliberately broken
    >> before you finally give up? My main point was if you have to use
    >> some other OS in order to use VMS, why not just move everything to
    >> the other OS instead of living with the added expense and complexity
    >> of a heterogenous shop? If VMS can no longer stand on its own, how
    >> much longer do you expect it to survive?

    > Here you were concentrating on mail.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> >> > I can't see anyone but some die-hard hobbyists (if they
    >> >> > don't switch to Mac) doing that...

    >>
    >> >> So, the way I see it, the concensus seems to be that VMS can't be
    >> >> used without other systems running other OSes to provide all the
    >> >> missing pieces. So then, why bother with VMS instead of a homogenous
    >> >> installation with less complexity and upkeep? I believe end of the
    >> >> era is in sight.
    >> > So I guess we should all switch everything to Windows.

    >>
    >> If you wish. :-) I certainly haven't.
    >>
    >> > And Outlook is something to brag about?

    >>
    >> Don't know, never tried it. Probably never will.
    >>
    >> > This is a selling point?

    >>
    >> Seems to be for MS.
    >>
    >> > Bill, what does Unix offer for mail?

    >>
    >> Is this a serious question? There are more MUA's for Unix than I can
    >> even count. Everything from Text based to graphical. And then, there
    >> are also these things called web browsers that can either access email
    >> directly using POP or IMAP or using an interface served up by a web
    >> server.

    > That's FOR Unix. Does Unix offer them?


    Well, there's "mail" or under Berkely "Mail". text based and doesn't
    change tildes into dollar signs. :-)

    > We were talking OSes here. I
    > was just asking and now I ask this: Who makes those MUA's?


    Unix is and always was a different world than VMS. Long before anyone
    coined the phrases GNU or OpenSource Unix people wrote and distributed
    packages intended to enhance the usability of the Unix OS. Most of the
    MUA's for Unix are free and opensource. Or are you saying you trust a
    product who's source you have never and will never see over a product
    where you can not only look at the source, but build your own version
    from that source so you know it is clean.

    > Anyway, JF Mezei mentioned Netscape/Mozilla on DECwindows.
    > And mail is hardly a must-have for every system. Many lotteries run on
    > VMS. I heard EZPass runs on VMS. Lack of mail is hardly a problem
    > there.


    If email wasn't a problem, this discussion would not have created more
    on topic traffic than this group has seen in a long time. Obviously,
    to a lot of VMS users, it is a problem.

    bill

    >>
    >> > Are office people going to be
    >> > running from a Unix prompt?

    >>
    >> Not likely, that's what seems to be killing VMS the fastest. Lack of
    >> an alternative to the DCL prompt combined with deliberatley breaking
    >> the text based products.

    > There's other things besides the world of desktops.


    Maybe so, but there are a hell of a lot more desktop computer users
    than VMS machines running lotteries or EasyPass. And the number of
    the first is going up rapdily, how about the second?

    bill


    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  8. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article <8c17df06-068d-4158-aa9a-9630855445e0@a23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
    AEF writes:
    > On Mar 15, 1:15 pm, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
    >> In article <53e898bc-8c31-4040-bc98-6042d6790...@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
    >> AEF writes:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> > On Mar 14, 1:27 pm, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
    >> >> In article ,
    >> >> Jan-Erik Söderholm writes:

    >>
    >> >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >> >> >> In article <47DABD5F.2060...@comcast.net>,
    >> >> >> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    >> >> >>> This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm!
    >> >> >>> Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or received
    >> >> >>> VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt the need to
    >> >> >>> do so.

    >>
    >> >> > You're right of course. It must have been > 15 years since I last
    >> >> > sent or received a personal mail using VMS-Mail. Person-to-person.
    >> >> > I do have some automatied routines that sends notifications and so
    >> >> > on, thought...

    >>
    >> >> >> You have never sent anyone an email with a personal URL: in it? You>> >> >> can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it? Interesting.

    >>
    >> >> >> bill

    >>
    >> >> > Never using VMS mail.
    >> >> > And *sending* isn't a problem, is it ?

    >>
    >> >> Well, it is if you expect the person on the other end to actually see
    >> >> usable information. I know for a fact that if a somneone here got an
    >> >> Email that displayed a "$" in a URL: they wanted to get to they would
    >> >> type exactly what they saw on the screen. And then come to me when it
    >> >> doesn't work. :-) Or are you saying no one is still using VMS anyway
    >> >> so it is a non-problem.

    >>
    >> >> > > You can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it?

    >>
    >> >> > Using VT-based VMS-Mail? In the future? Joke of the week... :-) :-)

    >>
    >> >> OK, you are admiting that VMS is dead or at least dying. I thought
    >> >> we had a bunch of people here who still sing the praises of VMS with
    >> >> VT-terminals. What else is supported as a VMS only solution? And if
    >> >> you send email to a known VMS user, what assumptions do you make about
    >> >> how they read their email?
    >> > For this VMS should be abandonded? Because of a single thing: mail?

    >>
    >> Well, how many more pieces of VMS need to become deliberately broken
    >> before you finally give up? My main point was if you have to use
    >> some other OS in order to use VMS, why not just move everything to
    >> the other OS instead of living with the added expense and complexity
    >> of a heterogenous shop? If VMS can no longer stand on its own, how
    >> much longer do you expect it to survive?
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> >> > I can't see anyone but some die-hard hobbyists (if they
    >> >> > don't switch to Mac) doing that...

    >>
    >> >> So, the way I see it, the concensus seems to be that VMS can't be
    >> >> used without other systems running other OSes to provide all the
    >> >> missing pieces. So then, why bother with VMS instead of a homogenous
    >> >> installation with less complexity and upkeep? I believe end of the
    >> >> era is in sight.
    >> > So I guess we should all switch everything to Windows.

    >>
    >> If you wish. :-) I certainly haven't.
    >>
    >> > And Outlook is something to brag about?

    >>
    >> Don't know, never tried it. Probably never will.
    >>
    >> > This is a selling point?

    >>
    >> Seems to be for MS.
    >>
    >> > Bill, what does Unix offer for mail?

    >>
    >> Is this a serious question? There are more MUA's for Unix than I can
    >> even count. Everything from Text based to graphical. And then, there
    >> are also these things called web browsers that can either access email
    >> directly using POP or IMAP or using an interface served up by a web
    >> server.

    > So if people wrote some MUA's for VMS, it'd be the same.


    Actually, there are. But VMS systems suffer from two problems that
    affect this. One is the idea that many (most?) VMS system managers
    won't install it on their systems for reasons I have yet to fathom.
    (We used to have Pine on the production system here but after a change
    in Systems managers Pine was removed. No real reason given.) And,
    the other problem is one people here are well aware of. The obscurity
    of VMS makes it much less likely that usable tools like Pine or Elm
    or especially graphical MUA's will see the needed modifications for
    VMS actually made and almost never folded back into the main source
    tree meaning the next time a change is made you have to start from an
    old set of sources and re-patch everything all over again.

    > You bragging
    > about add-ons for Unix but blaming VMS for not itself avoiding the
    > need for the same. Please. AEF


    I'm not bragging, you asked a questiona and I answered it. It is not
    my fault that the underlying paradigm of VMS users is so different from
    that of Unix users that you don't see anything that didn't ship with
    the original 1970 sources as a part of the OS. Today, when you get
    the install disks for FreeBSD you get over a dozen different MUA's.
    All shipped with the actual OS. You can get the sources off the net,
    but you don't need to. So, VMS comes on about 20 disks. Does that
    mean the stuff on disk 2 and above are not part of the OS?

    >>
    >> > Are office people going to be
    >> > running from a Unix prompt?

    >>
    >> Not likely, that's what seems to be killing VMS the fastest. Lack of
    >> an alternative to the DCL prompt combined with deliberatley breaking
    >> the text based products.


    But then, you must have missed my earlier comments about how many users
    I had that were still using text based MUA's, particularly Pine and Elm.
    So, yes, I guess there are office people running from the Unix prompt.
    And I should probably not bring up at this time the very large mortgage
    house that is still running PDP-11's and RSTS. Pretty sure they would be
    running from some command line interface. :-) While most of the world
    has jumped on the GUI bandwagon, everybody hasn't and some tasks are
    still best done from a command line. Like adding large numbers of inew
    Windows users in an Active Directory environment. :-)

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  9. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article <7954bccd-1e62-4d99-bb8c-e91c908a1b66@u72g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
    AEF writes:
    > On Mar 14, 1:27 pm, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
    >> In article ,
    >> Jan-Erik Söderholm writes:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >> >> In article <47DABD5F.2060...@comcast.net>,
    >> >> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    >> >>> This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm!
    >> >>> Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or received
    >> >>> VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt the need to
    >> >>> do so.

    >>
    >> > You're right of course. It must have been > 15 years since I last
    >> > sent or received a personal mail using VMS-Mail. Person-to-person.
    >> > I do have some automatied routines that sends notifications and so
    >> > on, thought...

    >>
    >> >> You have never sent anyone an email with a personal URL: in it? You
    >> >> can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it? Interesting.

    >>
    >> >> bill

    >>
    >> > Never using VMS mail.
    >> > And *sending* isn't a problem, is it ?

    >>
    >> Well, it is if you expect the person on the other end to actually see
    >> usable information. I know for a fact that if a somneone here got an
    >> Email that displayed a "$" in a URL: they wanted to get to they would
    >> type exactly what they saw on the screen. And then come to me when it
    >> doesn't work. :-) Or are you saying no one is still using VMS anyway
    >> so it is a non-problem.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> > > You can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it?

    >>
    >> > Using VT-based VMS-Mail? In the future? Joke of the week... :-) :-)

    >>
    >> OK, you are admiting that VMS is dead or at least dying. I thought
    >> we had a bunch of people here who still sing the praises of VMS with
    >> VT-terminals. What else is supported as a VMS only solution? And if
    >> you send email to a known VMS user, what assumptions do you make about
    >> how they read their email?
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> > I can't see anyone but some die-hard hobbyists (if they
    >> > don't switch to Mac) doing that...

    >>
    >> So, the way I see it, the concensus seems to be that VMS can't be
    >> used without other systems running other OSes to provide all the
    >> missing pieces. So then, why bother with VMS instead of a homogenous
    >> installation with less complexity and upkeep?

    > How about all the anti-virus, anti-spamware, etc. people have to add
    > on to Windows? Talk about adding complexity and upkeep!


    Actually, it doesn't. They integrate seamlessly and keep themselves
    updated. Unless you just downloaded a bootleg copy, then all bets
    are off. You guys reall need to get off this "Windows is impossible
    to maintain" kick. I have labs of Windows boxes and I don't ever have
    to mess with them and they don't get viruses and they don't crash.
    You may not want to believe it, but that is reality. And you know what.
    I could make them even more stable and secure (if that's really possible)
    but I choose a much less draconian approach than what I have learned to
    do in other environments.



    > I guess then we should convert everything to Linux, since that's the
    > only OS I'm aware of that in common use for both back-end and front-
    > end (desktop).


    Sigh, BSD. Been around longer than Linux, more stable, more efficient
    and available in both Server and Desktop flavors. Or even Solaris, for
    that matter, but wouldn't be my first choice.

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  10. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    Bill Gunshannon wrote:

    > some other OS in order to use VMS, why not just move everything to
    > the other OS instead of living with the added expense and complexity
    > of a heterogenous shop? If VMS can no longer stand on its own, how
    > much longer do you expect it to survive?



    If you have hope that they will soon wake up and start fixing VMS and
    make those simple but sadly needed improvements, then you can stick it
    out and continue to be loyal to VMS.

    But once you accept that HP is truly convinced that there is no need to
    improve the interactive side of VMS, you lose hope that improvements
    will be made and that is when you realise it is pointless to waste time
    compensating for the lack of modern services on VMS and just move onto
    the Macintosh.

    Interestingly, the other day, I got a large email. Seems the IMAP server
    on VMS couldn't serve it properly to the Mac, so I had to go to
    character cell mail and extract it and then use Mime to get the .ZIP
    files out. (I suspect MIME needs to have its pgflquota increased tenfold).

  11. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    AEF wrote:

    > And mail is hardly a must-have for every system. Many lotteries run on
    > VMS. I heard EZPass runs on VMS. Lack of mail is hardly a problem
    > there.


    The "COPY" command is hardly a must-have for every system. Some database
    application, once setup and in production probably doesn't need "copy"
    function.

    And you should rephrase it to "Many lotteries still run on VMS". In
    fact, one could generalise that there are "STILL" people who rely on
    VMS. With Cerner having dropped VMS, the number of people still on VMS
    will dwindle.

    More importantly, VMS managememt seems to be interested only in
    satisfying the remaining customers and I don't see any drive/motivation
    to reach out and get VMS into new markets. It is a last stand situation
    where you can only afford to protect what you have left (and at that,
    you can't protect all of it, they had to let go Cerner).

    MAIL has become a pretty critical application because it is such an easy
    way to move documents/files from platform to platform. The lack of
    proper handling of MIME attachements is a very sad thing, but the fact
    that VMS management say that there is no demand for such a function is
    even sadder.


  12. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    Bill Gunshannon wrote:

    > If email wasn't a problem, this discussion would not have created more
    > on topic traffic than this group has seen in a long time. Obviously,
    > to a lot of VMS users, it is a problem.


    From VMS management's point of view, C.O.V is not representative of the
    remaining customer base so they don't listen to what we say we need.

    We may be jumping up and down pointing at major flaws at HP that prevent
    the success of VMS, but VMS management doesn't care. Their mandate is to
    take care of the remaining VMS customers who count. (not the small guy
    who doesn't generate inordinate amount of profits for HP).



  13. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.


    "Bill Gunshannon" wrote in message
    news:642pp3F29r6cjU1@mid.individual.net...



    > >> So, the way I see it, the concensus seems to be that VMS can't be
    > >> used without other systems running other OSes to provide all the
    > >> missing pieces. So then, why bother with VMS instead of a homogenous
    > >> installation with less complexity and upkeep?

    > > How about all the anti-virus, anti-spamware, etc. people have to add
    > > on to Windows? Talk about adding complexity and upkeep!

    >
    > Actually, it doesn't. They integrate seamlessly and keep themselves
    > updated. Unless you just downloaded a bootleg copy, then all bets
    > are off. You guys reall need to get off this "Windows is impossible
    > to maintain" kick. I have labs of Windows boxes and I don't ever have
    > to mess with them and they don't get viruses and they don't crash.
    > You may not want to believe it, but that is reality. And you know what.
    > I could make them even more stable and secure (if that's really possible)
    > but I choose a much less draconian approach than what I have learned to
    > do in other environments.




    (note in passing: "missing pieces" in vanilla Windows also includes decent
    browser and decent backup tool, and until recently Windows from MS didn't
    even include a DVD player - a media-centric desktop OS with no DVD player,
    how weird is that? Many PC vendors bundled a DVD player to hide that
    omission, similarly some CPQ/HP PCs come bundled with backup tools (Acronis,
    Veritas?), but they're not a standard part of the OS)

    Bill, you (and your colleagues??) may be sufficiently competent and
    motivated to run a clean Windows shop, but my experience of many places I've
    worked at or visited over many years, mostly folks who would consider
    themselves "business class" outfits, says you must be in a tiny tiny tiny
    minority. And I suspect that's the experience of many others too.

    And if you're letting Windows Update do its own thing without intervention,
    as you seem to be advocating, I'm not quite sure how you manage to be
    trouble-free on the occasions when MS do seriously screw up a patch. Unless
    you're just incredibly lucky, you've either already been caught out or you
    will get caught out one day. Unmanaged Windows Update is not a setup the "PC
    professionals" would recommend (and it's not one I use at home either).

    2p
    John



  14. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article <13tooph1vjuv874@corp.supernews.com>,
    "John Wallace" writes:
    >
    > "Bill Gunshannon" wrote in message
    > news:642pp3F29r6cjU1@mid.individual.net...
    >
    >
    >
    >> >> So, the way I see it, the concensus seems to be that VMS can't be
    >> >> used without other systems running other OSes to provide all the
    >> >> missing pieces. So then, why bother with VMS instead of a homogenous
    >> >> installation with less complexity and upkeep?
    >> > How about all the anti-virus, anti-spamware, etc. people have to add
    >> > on to Windows? Talk about adding complexity and upkeep!

    >>
    >> Actually, it doesn't. They integrate seamlessly and keep themselves
    >> updated. Unless you just downloaded a bootleg copy, then all bets
    >> are off. You guys reall need to get off this "Windows is impossible
    >> to maintain" kick. I have labs of Windows boxes and I don't ever have
    >> to mess with them and they don't get viruses and they don't crash.
    >> You may not want to believe it, but that is reality. And you know what.
    >> I could make them even more stable and secure (if that's really possible)
    >> but I choose a much less draconian approach than what I have learned to
    >> do in other environments.

    >
    >
    >
    > (note in passing: "missing pieces" in vanilla Windows also includes decent
    > browser and decent backup tool, and until recently Windows from MS didn't
    > even include a DVD player - a media-centric desktop OS with no DVD player,
    > how weird is that?


    Until recently the hardwre didn't play DVD's, why include a player for a
    media the hardware didn't support?

    > Many PC vendors bundled a DVD player to hide that
    > omission, similarly some CPQ/HP PCs come bundled with backup tools (Acronis,
    > Veritas?), but they're not a standard part of the OS)


    How many desktop users ever backup their systems in the first place?
    Of all the faculty in my department, only two that I know of and one
    just started that recently. Both of them use Ghost to save a full
    image rather than the traditional backup.

    >
    > Bill, you (and your colleagues??)


    I have colleagues in my one job, but not in my day job. :-)

    > may be sufficiently competent and
    > motivated to run a clean Windows shop, but my experience of many places I've
    > worked at or visited over many years, mostly folks who would consider
    > themselves "business class" outfits, says you must be in a tiny tiny tiny
    > minority.


    Guess it depends on how you define a "minority". My second job and the
    one that uses the more draconian approach is the DOD. I think they
    probably consider themselves "business class" and they are certainly
    not tiny. :-)

    > And I suspect that's the experience of many others too.


    So tell me, do any of these places allow the users of the machine to
    install anything? Do the users have the ability to install anything?
    That's the very first thing that has to go if you want a safe and stable
    Windows environment. You would be amazed at how many problems this one
    change makes. Totally eliminates conversations like:

    User: My PC keeps freezing up.
    Techie: What have you installed on it lately?
    User: Nothing. It just started freezing up repatedly since lunchtime.
    Techie: Where did the screensaver with the pictures of the Grand Canyon
    come from?
    User: A friend emailed it to me to me this morning.
    Techie: I thought you didn't install anything.
    User: I didn't, it's just a screensaver.

    >
    > And if you're letting Windows Update do its own thing without intervention,
    > as you seem to be advocating, I'm not quite sure how you manage to be
    > trouble-free on the occasions when MS do seriously screw up a patch. Unless
    > you're just incredibly lucky, you've either already been caught out or you
    > will get caught out one day. Unmanaged Windows Update is not a setup the "PC
    > professionals" would recommend (and it's not one I use at home either).


    In the one job I let it do criticals overnoght. Only problem I seem to have
    is that some machines get them one day and some don't get them for several
    more days. Never had a problem. being as I don't think MS pushes them out
    as fast as soem people think, I would expect just as likely a chance of
    trashing a system doing them manually. After all, you are still trusting
    that the patch will actually do what the explanation says, and nothing more.
    On my second job (the more draconian one) all the patches are tested by a
    central authority and then pushed down to the users machines. Same caveat,
    though. Just becaue it worked in testing doesn't mean it won't cause a
    problem later. It still comes down to trusting MS.

    All I can really say is that I run labs in an environment where a large
    number of the PC's I don't manage are infected with all kinds of crap.
    None of it get's to my machines. The last trojan we had was a keyboard
    sniffer put on a machine in the lab by a student. That was when we
    were still running Windows98. Since then we have gone through NT (3.51
    and 4.0), Win2K and now XP without a single virus or any reports by the
    users of instability or BSOD's. this is aal done by a comprehensive program
    of Workstation Security, Network Security and just plain common sense. And
    it is an ongoing process. I just recently (in the past two weeks) totally
    reconfigured the network the labs run on to make it even less likely that
    they will be attacked, much less infected, by a machine from the outside.

    It can be done with Windows, it can be done with Unix, it can be done with
    pretty much any computer system. But not when you spend all your time saying
    it can't be done.

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  15. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    Bill Gunshannon wrote:

    > Until recently the hardwre didn't play DVD's, why include a player for a
    > media the hardware didn't support?


    A 1999 Mac has a built-in DVD player. Your definition of "recently" is
    askew in my opinion.

    Note that there are licensing issues with DVDs due to the attempt at
    protecting the contents.

  16. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    Hi Heine,

    > Anyway...
    > I happened to sit next to Robert at the lunch table today.


    What does lunch cost there these days?

    > And the change was provoked/triggered/jousted by a multy-decade
    > experienced OpenVMS engineer under the guise of security concerns.


    Either that, or the desperate need to find something *anything* to stick on
    the timesheet and let Democles play another day?
    (A cost-centre, a cost-centre, my kingdom for a cost-centre!)

    If anyone else is at a loose-end, there's always that /PAGE qualifier that's
    "needed" adding to the $SHOW TIME command since before Guy Peleg left. (Not
    to mention that the sistine-chapelesque rewrite of the PCSI Developer's
    Guide that is surely too much work for one man?)

    Regards Richard Maher

    "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" wrote in message
    news:9db9f276-8e33-46c8-b09b-e30e57bc8aad@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
    On Mar 14, 5:22 pm, JF Mezei wrote:
    > Tom Wade wrote:
    > >> It has to be a process logical name, and it has to have value "1":
    > >> $ DEFINE/PROCESS MAIL$FILTER 1

    >
    > > I can't understand the thinking here. Surely it would have been just as
    > > easily to query LNM$FILE_DEV as LNM$PROCESS ?

    >
    > While Mr Deninger admitted it was a "Great conspiracy", I disagree. This
    > was a much simpler issue. As part of his education on VMS, a indian
    > support newbie was given an assignment to use SYS$TRNLNM on a specific
    > table. They chose a little used utility (MAIL) to get him to play with


    I saw the smiley.
    But you know the thing about poking fun is that there is always this
    element underneat...

    Anyway...
    I happened to sit next to Robert at the lunch table today.
    He confided that it was in fact a 'Dying Swan Act' from a decade+
    experienced OpenVMS sustaining support engineer. She left not too long
    ago. And the change was provoked/triggered/jousted by a multy-decade
    experienced OpenVMS engineer under the guise of security concerns.
    It's still wrong and it sucks (IMnsHO), but it was not an immature act
    by a novice.

    In fact, today while walking the hallowed hallways of Spitbrook road
    possibly for a last time I heard nothing but good about the support/
    engineering skills of the Indian entensions to the OpenVMS team.

    Sure there can be communication problems, but there are some really
    good resource out there and they are helping you here and now to make
    OpenVMS become a better product whether you like it or not.

    Off to Boston Billards, Nashua. Happy Hour!

    Cheers,
    Hein




  17. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article <47dc9baf$0$3883$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>,
    JF Mezei writes:
    > Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >
    >> Until recently the hardwre didn't play DVD's, why include a player for a
    >> media the hardware didn't support?

    >
    > A 1999 Mac has a built-in DVD player. Your definition of "recently" is
    > askew in my opinion.


    Mac's have always done wierd hardwre configurations. We were talking
    about PC's and Microsoft.

    >
    > Note that there are licensing issues with DVDs due to the attempt at
    > protecting the contents.


    Which probably contributed a lot to their not being standard in PC's
    until recently.

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  18. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes:
    >
    > Doesn't LOGINOUT.EXE run SYLOGIN.COM ?
    > I thought we agreed on that LOGINOUT.EXE was the
    > correct way to run/detached.


    Not in my experience. And running LOGINOUT is only needed if you
    are starting a process that needs DCL context. Many don't. In fact
    running MAIL in a detached process that doesn't have a DCL context
    would be one way to block the user from using SPAWN within mail.


  19. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes:
    >
    > I can't see anyone but some die-hard hobbyists (if they
    > don't switch to Mac) doing that...


    I can. In fact I do it all the time. No need to worry about all
    those pesky virii, phishing, ...



  20. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article <7954bccd-1e62-4d99-bb8c-e91c908a1b66@u72g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes:

    > How about all the anti-virus, anti-spamware, etc. people have to add
    > on to Windows? Talk about adding complexity and upkeep!
    >
    > I guess then we should convert everything to Linux, since that's the
    > only OS I'm aware of that in common use for both back-end and front-
    > end (desktop).


    Although I do believe its in a better state than Windows, I'd not
    lead a rush to Linux for the purpose of avoiding security issues.

    In fact, I think other free UNIX-ish OS, like NetBSD, may have a
    better record and I wouldn't rush to them, either.


+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast