VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. - VMS

This is a discussion on VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. - VMS ; In article , Robert Deininger writes: >{...snip...} >Did you forget to type a smiley or something? > >Please put away your tinfoil hat for a moment. Step away from c.o.v. >and go outside for some fresh air. There's no anti-alpha ...

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Thread: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

  1. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article , Robert Deininger writes:
    >{...snip...}
    >Did you forget to type a smiley or something?
    >
    >Please put away your tinfoil hat for a moment. Step away from c.o.v.
    >and go outside for some fresh air. There's no anti-alpha conspiracy
    >here.


    C'mon Robert, you know I don't wear hats!



    >> As for the "logical"... I would prefer it have been some option in the
    >> mail profile.

    >
    >The engineer considered solutions with wider scope, and deliberately
    >chose a process-based one. The type of terminal (or emulator) is key to
    >the need for removing the offending characters. Neither the system-wide
    >mail parameter nor the username-specific mail profile is well matched to
    >the need.


    I can set, for example, the editor on a per-process basis. What would be
    the reason for having to preclude using the user's mail profile in lieu of
    a process logical?

    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"

    http://tmesis.com/drat.html

  2. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    > In article , Robert Deininger writes:
    >> {...snip...}
    >> Did you forget to type a smiley or something?
    >>
    >> Please put away your tinfoil hat for a moment. Step away from c.o.v.
    >> and go outside for some fresh air. There's no anti-alpha conspiracy
    >> here.

    >
    > C'mon Robert, you know I don't wear hats!
    >
    >
    >
    >>> As for the "logical"... I would prefer it have been some option in the
    >>> mail profile.

    >> The engineer considered solutions with wider scope, and deliberately
    >> chose a process-based one. The type of terminal (or emulator) is key to
    >> the need for removing the offending characters. Neither the system-wide
    >> mail parameter nor the username-specific mail profile is well matched to
    >> the need.

    >
    > I can set, for example, the editor on a per-process basis. What would be
    > the reason for having to preclude using the user's mail profile in lieu of
    > a process logical?
    >


    You can set a process logical once for all users as system manager.
    I do not think you can do that with the Mail profile.

    By having it in SYLOGIN.COM there is nothing additional to be done
    when a new user is created.

    Jan-Erik.

  3. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes:
    >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    >> In article , Robert Deininger writes:
    >>> {...snip...}
    >>> Did you forget to type a smiley or something?
    >>>
    >>> Please put away your tinfoil hat for a moment. Step away from c.o.v.
    >>> and go outside for some fresh air. There's no anti-alpha conspiracy
    >>> here.

    >>
    >> C'mon Robert, you know I don't wear hats!
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>> As for the "logical"... I would prefer it have been some option in the
    >>>> mail profile.
    >>> The engineer considered solutions with wider scope, and deliberately
    >>> chose a process-based one. The type of terminal (or emulator) is key to
    >>> the need for removing the offending characters. Neither the system-wide
    >>> mail parameter nor the username-specific mail profile is well matched to
    >>> the need.

    >>
    >> I can set, for example, the editor on a per-process basis. What would be
    >> the reason for having to preclude using the user's mail profile in lieu of
    >> a process logical?
    >>

    >
    >You can set a process logical once for all users as system manager.
    >I do not think you can do that with the Mail profile.


    Not as it exists now but...

    $ MAIL
    MAIL> SET [FORWARD/PERSONAL_NAME] /USER={username}

    still seems to function. A simple addition to this would be to define
    a default profiles for mail with this new _"feature"_.



    >By having it in SYLOGIN.COM there is nothing additional to be done
    >when a new user is created.


    Then why not have MAIL$FILTER translate through LNM$DEV_FILE? Set it
    once for _SITE_ preference and override it in process logical tables
    for those hapless sots which are using this flawed terminal emulator?

    Ideally, the behavior shouldn't change *PERIOD*! Only in the presence
    if the logical should there be an alternate behavior.

    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"

    http://tmesis.com/drat.html

  4. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    Bob Koehler wrote:
    > In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes:
    >> That was not was I wrote. I asked about the suggestion to first
    >> create one logical i system table, then "copy" that logical in the
    >> SYLOGIN to the process table. Why not create it in the first place
    >> in the process table in the SYLOGICAL ?

    >
    > If SYLOGICAL creates a process table logical name, it will go away
    > when booting is finished and the process that runs SYLOGICAL exits.


    I corrected that in another post to SYLOGIN. Of course SYLOGICAL
    has nothing to do with this.

    >
    > Putting it in SYLOGIN won't help processes created with run/detach
    > or similar means.


    Doesn't LOGINOUT.EXE run SYLOGIN.COM ?
    I thought we agreed on that LOGINOUT.EXE was the
    correct way to run/detached.

    Jan-Erik.

  5. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:

    >> You can set a process logical once for all users as system manager.
    >> I do not think you can do that with the Mail profile.

    >
    > Not as it exists now but...


    Right, "now" was what I thought we where talking about. :-)

    > Then why not have MAIL$FILTER translate through LNM$DEV_FILE?


    If we're talking about whatever *could* be done, well, I
    also can come up with better solutions... :-)

    Jan-Erik.

  6. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    On Mar 14, 10:45 am, Jan-Erik Söderholm
    wrote:
    > Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
    > > AEF wrote:
    > >> On Mar 14, 9:58 am, Jan-Erik Söderholm
    > >> wrote:
    > >>> Tom Wade wrote:
    > >>>> Of course, this is easily worked around. Define a SYSTEM wide logical
    > >>>> MAIL_FILTER to be the way you want it, and have a DEFINE command in
    > >>>> SYS$SYLOGIN copy this settting to a process logical MAIL$FILTER before
    > >>>> activating the user's own LOGIN.COM (thus allowing him to override).
    > >>> Why not set it as you want it to be system wide in the sylogin in
    > >>> the first place. What is won with the first MAIL_FILTER logical ?

    >
    > >>> Jan-Erik.

    >
    > >> Seconded. I thought the whole point of having process, job, group, and
    > >> system logical names and the different access modes is that you can
    > >> define a global value in the system (or cluster) table and override
    > >> that as necessary with the process, job, and group tables. What is
    > >> gained by limiting this to the process table? You can still override
    > >> the global setting with process logical names, you get the idea.

    >
    > >> AEF

    >
    > > That was not was I wrote. I asked about the suggestion to first
    > > create one logical i system table, then "copy" that logical in the
    > > SYLOGIN to the process table. Why not create it in the first place
    > > in the process table in the SYLOGICAL ?

    >
    > > Having MAIL.EXE to read the system table is another issue.

    >
    > > Jan-Erik.

    >
    > Several errors there.... :-) Edited version :
    >
    > That was not what I wrote. I asked about the suggestion to first
    > create one logical i the system table, then "copy" that logical in
    > the SYLOGIN to the process table. Why not create it in the first
    > place in the process table using SYLOGIN.COM ? I do not see the
    > use of that first system wide logical.
    >
    > Having MAIL.EXE to read the system table is another issue.
    >
    > Jan-Erik.


    Sorry. OK, not a whole lot of sleep last night!

    It still seems to me that it should work like the usual logical names
    where the process has precedence over the job table, ... group...
    system, and the access modes and such. Why limit it to the process
    table?

    AEF

  7. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    AEF wrote:

    > It still seems to me that it should work like the usual logical names
    > where the process has precedence over the job table, ... group...
    > system, and the access modes and such. Why limit it to the process
    > table?


    That is a change to how it actualy works. I can also easily
    come up with a lot of ways it could be made better then
    beeing locked to the process logical table. But that is
    another issue... :-)

    Jan-Erik.

  8. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
    > AEF wrote:
    >
    >> It still seems to me that it should work like the usual logical names
    >> where the process has precedence over the job table, ... group...
    >> system, and the access modes and such. Why limit it to the process
    >> table?

    >
    >
    > That is a change to how it actualy works. I can also easily
    > come up with a lot of ways it could be made better then
    > beeing locked to the process logical table. But that is
    > another issue... :-)
    >
    > Jan-Erik.


    This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm!
    Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or received
    VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt the need to
    do so.


  9. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article <47DABD5F.2060003@comcast.net>,
    "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    > Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
    >> AEF wrote:
    >>
    >>> It still seems to me that it should work like the usual logical names
    >>> where the process has precedence over the job table, ... group...
    >>> system, and the access modes and such. Why limit it to the process
    >>> table?

    >>
    >>
    >> That is a change to how it actualy works. I can also easily
    >> come up with a lot of ways it could be made better then
    >> beeing locked to the process logical table. But that is
    >> another issue... :-)
    >>
    >> Jan-Erik.

    >
    > This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm!
    > Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or received
    > VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt the need to
    > do so.


    You have never sent anyone an email with a personal URL: in it? You
    can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it? Interesting.

    bill


    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  10. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    > In article <47DABD5F.2060003@comcast.net>,
    > "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    >> This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm!
    >> Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or received
    >> VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt the need to
    >> do so.


    You're right of course. It must have been > 15 years since I last
    sent or received a personal mail using VMS-Mail. Person-to-person.
    I do have some automatied routines that sends notifications and so
    on, thought...

    >
    > You have never sent anyone an email with a personal URL: in it? You
    > can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it? Interesting.
    >
    > bill
    >
    >


    Never using VMS mail.
    And *sending* isn't a problem, is it ?

    > You can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it?


    Using VT-based VMS-Mail? In the future? Joke of the week... :-) :-)

    I can't see anyone but some die-hard hobbyists (if they
    don't switch to Mac) doing that...

    Jan-Erik.

  11. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes:
    >Bob Koehler wrote:
    >> In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes:
    >>> That was not was I wrote. I asked about the suggestion to first
    >>> create one logical i system table, then "copy" that logical in the
    >>> SYLOGIN to the process table. Why not create it in the first place
    >>> in the process table in the SYLOGICAL ?

    >>
    >> If SYLOGICAL creates a process table logical name, it will go away
    >> when booting is finished and the process that runs SYLOGICAL exits.

    >
    >I corrected that in another post to SYLOGIN. Of course SYLOGICAL
    >has nothing to do with this.
    >
    >>
    >> Putting it in SYLOGIN won't help processes created with run/detach
    >> or similar means.

    >
    >Doesn't LOGINOUT.EXE run SYLOGIN.COM ?
    >I thought we agreed on that LOGINOUT.EXE was the
    >correct way to run/detached.


    Yes.

    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"

    http://tmesis.com/drat.html

  12. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    > In article <47DABD5F.2060003@comcast.net>,
    > "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    >
    >>Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
    >>
    >>>AEF wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>It still seems to me that it should work like the usual logical names
    >>>>where the process has precedence over the job table, ... group...
    >>>>system, and the access modes and such. Why limit it to the process
    >>>>table?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>That is a change to how it actualy works. I can also easily
    >>>come up with a lot of ways it could be made better then
    >>>beeing locked to the process logical table. But that is
    >>>another issue... :-)
    >>>
    >>>Jan-Erik.

    >>
    >>This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm!
    >>Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or received
    >>VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt the need to
    >>do so.

    >
    >
    > You have never sent anyone an email with a personal URL: in it? You
    > can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it? Interesting.
    >
    > bill
    >
    >


    Perhaps the fact that I send and receive mail using a PC, Windoze and
    Netscape has something to do with it! I suppose there are a few
    diehards out there who use VMS for everything but I'm not one of them.
    Using Netscape instead of Outlook or Outlook express is my concession to
    eccentricity!


  13. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    > In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes:
    >> Bob Koehler wrote:
    >>> In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes:
    >>>> That was not was I wrote. I asked about the suggestion to first
    >>>> create one logical i system table, then "copy" that logical in the
    >>>> SYLOGIN to the process table. Why not create it in the first place
    >>>> in the process table in the SYLOGICAL ?
    >>> If SYLOGICAL creates a process table logical name, it will go away
    >>> when booting is finished and the process that runs SYLOGICAL exits.

    >> I corrected that in another post to SYLOGIN. Of course SYLOGICAL
    >> has nothing to do with this.
    >>
    >>> Putting it in SYLOGIN won't help processes created with run/detach
    >>> or similar means.

    >> Doesn't LOGINOUT.EXE run SYLOGIN.COM ?
    >> I thought we agreed on that LOGINOUT.EXE was the
    >> correct way to run/detached.

    >
    > Yes.
    >


    "Yes" on both ?


  14. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article ,
    Jan-Erik Söderholm writes:
    > Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >> In article <47DABD5F.2060003@comcast.net>,
    >> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    >>> This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm!
    >>> Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or received
    >>> VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt the need to
    >>> do so.

    >
    > You're right of course. It must have been > 15 years since I last
    > sent or received a personal mail using VMS-Mail. Person-to-person.
    > I do have some automatied routines that sends notifications and so
    > on, thought...
    >
    >>
    >> You have never sent anyone an email with a personal URL: in it? You
    >> can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it? Interesting.
    >>
    >> bill
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Never using VMS mail.
    > And *sending* isn't a problem, is it ?


    Well, it is if you expect the person on the other end to actually see
    usable information. I know for a fact that if a somneone here got an
    Email that displayed a "$" in a URL: they wanted to get to they would
    type exactly what they saw on the screen. And then come to me when it
    doesn't work. :-) Or are you saying no one is still using VMS anyway
    so it is a non-problem.

    >
    > > You can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it?

    >
    > Using VT-based VMS-Mail? In the future? Joke of the week... :-) :-)


    OK, you are admiting that VMS is dead or at least dying. I thought
    we had a bunch of people here who still sing the praises of VMS with
    VT-terminals. What else is supported as a VMS only solution? And if
    you send email to a known VMS user, what assumptions do you make about
    how they read their email?

    >
    > I can't see anyone but some die-hard hobbyists (if they
    > don't switch to Mac) doing that...


    So, the way I see it, the concensus seems to be that VMS can't be
    used without other systems running other OSes to provide all the
    missing pieces. So then, why bother with VMS instead of a homogenous
    installation with less complexity and upkeep? I believe end of the
    era is in sight.

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  15. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote in
    news:rezCj.4781$R_4.4343@newsb.telia.net:

    > Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >> In article <47DABD5F.2060003@comcast.net>,
    >> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    >>> This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of
    >>> enthusiasm! Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER
    >>> sent or received VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have
    >>> I ever felt the need to do so.

    >
    > You're right of course. It must have been > 15 years since I last
    > sent or received a personal mail using VMS-Mail. Person-to-person.
    > I do have some automatied routines that sends notifications and so
    > on, thought...
    >
    >>
    >> You have never sent anyone an email with a personal URL: in it?
    >> You can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it?
    >> Interesting.
    >>
    >> bill
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Never using VMS mail.
    > And *sending* isn't a problem, is it ?
    >
    > > You can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it?

    >
    > Using VT-based VMS-Mail? In the future? Joke of the week... :-) :-)
    >
    > I can't see anyone but some die-hard hobbyists (if they
    > don't switch to Mac) doing that...
    >
    > Jan-Erik.
    >


    If the VMS mail client cannot display a mail message exactly as it was
    written by the VMS mail client, then how does it have any value for
    reading mail messages? It should then just be modified to only allow
    sending of mail and something else would be required for reading mail
    messages.

    Unrelated to your comments, but related to the original explanation for
    this "flawed" behavior, how is it that a printable ASCII character
    could have ever been implemented as an escape sequence or a control
    character for a terminal (or emulator.) That's just nuts. Should we
    next anticipate that someone will implement @ as a control character.
    Will that affect anyone's use of mail? You know they'd just map it to
    $ as well.

  16. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    > In article ,
    > Jan-Erik Söderholm writes:
    >
    >>Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >>
    >>>In article <47DABD5F.2060003@comcast.net>,
    >>> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    >>>
    >>>>This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm!
    >>>>Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or received
    >>>>VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt the need to
    >>>>do so.
    >>>

    >>You're right of course. It must have been > 15 years since I last
    >>sent or received a personal mail using VMS-Mail. Person-to-person.
    >>I do have some automatied routines that sends notifications and so
    >>on, thought...
    >>
    >>
    >>>You have never sent anyone an email with a personal URL: in it? You
    >>>can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it? Interesting.
    >>>
    >>>bill
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>Never using VMS mail.
    >>And *sending* isn't a problem, is it ?

    >
    >
    > Well, it is if you expect the person on the other end to actually see
    > usable information. I know for a fact that if a somneone here got an
    > Email that displayed a "$" in a URL: they wanted to get to they would
    > type exactly what they saw on the screen. And then come to me when it
    > doesn't work. :-) Or are you saying no one is still using VMS anyway
    > so it is a non-problem.
    >
    >
    >>>You can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it?

    >>
    >>Using VT-based VMS-Mail? In the future? Joke of the week... :-) :-)

    >
    >
    > OK, you are admiting that VMS is dead or at least dying.


    Oh? You hadn't noticed?? I've got my copy and sufficient hardware to
    last as long as I'm likely to live! That's enough for me.

    And it has been obvious to all but VMS fanatics that VMS has been dying
    for many years now. I think I've said before that DEC's failure/refusal
    to compete in the workstation market had a great deal to do with it.

    How many working VMS systems are left these days? Hobbyists don't count!


  17. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes:
    >
    > That was not was I wrote. I asked about the suggestion to first
    > create one logical i system table, then "copy" that logical in the
    > SYLOGIN to the process table. Why not create it in the first place
    > in the process table in the SYLOGICAL ?


    If SYLOGICAL creates a process table logical name, it will go away
    when booting is finished and the process that runs SYLOGICAL exits.

    Putting it in SYLOGIN won't help processes created with run/detach
    or similar means. They're not likely to be running MAIL, but that
    should be the implimenter's decision, not VMS Engineering.


  18. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article <6kzCj.4783$R_4.4322@newsb.telia.net>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes:
    >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    >> In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes:
    >>> Bob Koehler wrote:
    >>>> In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes:
    >>>>> That was not was I wrote. I asked about the suggestion to first
    >>>>> create one logical i system table, then "copy" that logical in the
    >>>>> SYLOGIN to the process table. Why not create it in the first place
    >>>>> in the process table in the SYLOGICAL ?
    >>>> If SYLOGICAL creates a process table logical name, it will go away
    >>>> when booting is finished and the process that runs SYLOGICAL exits.
    >>> I corrected that in another post to SYLOGIN. Of course SYLOGICAL
    >>> has nothing to do with this.
    >>>
    >>>> Putting it in SYLOGIN won't help processes created with run/detach
    >>>> or similar means.
    >>> Doesn't LOGINOUT.EXE run SYLOGIN.COM ?
    >>> I thought we agreed on that LOGINOUT.EXE was the
    >>> correct way to run/detached.

    >>
    >> Yes.
    >>

    >
    >"Yes" on both ?


    Yes to RUN/DETACH... SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXE executing SYLOGIN.COM

    As to whether it is the _CORRECT_ way to use RUN/DETACH depends on the
    particular application/situation.


    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"

    http://tmesis.com/drat.html

  19. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article <63vt2lF223licU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >In article <47DABD5F.2060003@comcast.net>,
    > "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    >> Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
    >>> AEF wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> It still seems to me that it should work like the usual logical names
    >>>> where the process has precedence over the job table, ... group...
    >>>> system, and the access modes and such. Why limit it to the process
    >>>> table?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> That is a change to how it actualy works. I can also easily
    >>> come up with a lot of ways it could be made better then
    >>> beeing locked to the process logical table. But that is
    >>> another issue... :-)
    >>>
    >>> Jan-Erik.

    >>
    >> This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm!
    >> Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or received
    >> VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt the need to
    >> do so.

    >
    >You have never sent anyone an email with a personal URL: in it? You
    >can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it? Interesting.
    >
    >bill



    Totally agree Bill. They have introduced a bug pure and simple.
    Stripping out escape sequences is acceptable but not stripping out perfectly
    good printable ASCII characters.
    If this was done to cope with a misbehaving terminal emulator then the terminal
    emulator is broken and needs fixing.
    VMS mail needs to be returned to it's previous behaviour. Since the work on
    this bogus fix has now been done it might be acceptable to leave it in place as
    something which can be turned on if someone really needs it before the terminal
    emulator is fixed but it should definitely not be the default.


    David Webb
    Security team leader
    CCSS
    Middlesex University

    >
    >
    >--
    >Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    >billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    >University of Scranton |
    >Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include


  20. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
    > Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >
    >> In article <47DABD5F.2060003@comcast.net>,
    >> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    >>
    >>> This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm!
    >>> Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or
    >>> received VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt
    >>> the need to do so.

    >>

    >
    > You're right of course. It must have been > 15 years since I last
    > sent or received a personal mail using VMS-Mail. Person-to-person.
    > I do have some automatied routines that sends notifications and so
    > on, thought...
    >
    >>
    >> You have never sent anyone an email with a personal URL: in it? You
    >> can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it?
    >> Interesting.
    >>
    >> bill
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Never using VMS mail.
    > And *sending* isn't a problem, is it ?
    >
    > > You can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it?

    >
    > Using VT-based VMS-Mail? In the future? Joke of the week... :-) :-)
    >
    > I can't see anyone but some die-hard hobbyists (if they
    > don't switch to Mac) doing that...
    >
    > Jan-Erik.


    I used to use VMS Mail with the JAMS Batch Scheduler. I had set up JAMS
    in such a way that when a batch job failed, JAMS would send E-mail to
    the responsible party. In the case of System jobs; e.g. disk backups,
    these e-Mails were sent to my pager or, later on, my cellular phone. I
    would then log in from home and take any necessary corrective action or,
    in extreme cases, jump in my car and drive the ten miles to work if
    there was no one there who could mount a tape of push a button for me.

    JAMS had extensive error handling capabilities. The ability to send
    e-Mail when a job ended abnormally was a BIG plus.

    Ordinary business and personal mail was handled via Netscape (and still
    is). It may be old but so am I, and I'm used to it.



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