I am assuming dka100 and dka0 are members of some shadowset. I am
guessing it is the system disk that you are shadowing but not sure.
Are the new drives the same size as the old drives? Are we talking
about more than one system? what version of VMS

tadamsmar wrote:
> I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
> shortly.
>
> The easiest way I can think of is to:
>
> 1. Dismount dka100:
> 2. Power down
> 3. Swap out dka100:
> 4. Reboot on dka0:
> 5. Merge the shadow set
> 6. Dismount dka0:
> 7. Power down
> 8. Swap out dka0:
> 9. Reboot on dka100:
> 10. Merge the shadow set
>
> Is there a better way?

tadamsmar wrote:
> I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
> shortly.
>
> The easiest way I can think of is to:
>
> 1. Dismount dka100:
> 2. Power down
> 3. Swap out dka100:
> 4. Reboot on dka0:
> 5. Merge the shadow set
> 6. Dismount dka0:
> 7. Power down
> 8. Swap out dka0:
> 9. Reboot on dka100:
> 10. Merge the shadow set
>
> Is there a better way?

I think you could skip the power downs and reboots! In my experience,
RZ series disks are "hot swapable".

tadamsmar wrote:
> I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
> shortly.
>
> The easiest way I can think of is to:
>
> 1. Dismount dka100:

Since you are swapping a drive, then the new drive will be the target of
a full copy operation no matter what you do.

What is important is to ensure the rest of your shawdowset remains up on
other nodes, and/or is cleanly dismounted so that when it remounts, the
other members aren't target of merge/mini/full copy operations.

On Feb 29, 5:46 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
wrote:
> tadamsmar wrote:
> > I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
> > shortly.
>
> > The easiest way I can think of is to:
>
> > 1. Dismount dka100:
> > 2. Power down
> > 3. Swap out dka100:
> > 4. Reboot on dka0:
> > 5. Merge the shadow set
> > 6. Dismount dka0:
> > 7. Power down
> > 8. Swap out dka0:
> > 9. Reboot on dka100:
> > 10. Merge the shadow set
>
> > Is there a better way?
>
> I think you could skip the power downs and reboots! In my experience,
> RZ series disks are "hot swapable".

Not on my Storage Works shelves/pedestals/towers or whatever the hell
they're called. (Just what *are* they called?) I tried that on a test
system and got several disk and SCSI bus errors. I've never done it
again since. You need shelves/pedestals/towers/whatever that support
hot swaps.

AEF

On Feb 29, 5:03 pm, tadamsmar wrote:
> I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
> shortly.
>
> The easiest way I can think of is to:
>
> 1. Dismount dka100:
> 2. Power down
> 3. Swap out dka100:
> 4. Reboot on dka0:
> 5. Merge the shadow set
> 6. Dismount dka0:
> 7. Power down
> 8. Swap out dka0:
> 9. Reboot on dka100:
> 10. Merge the shadow set
>
> Is there a better way?

Are you doing minimum boots? Otherwise won't your startup procedure
attempt to mount both disks in the shadow set? Or fail to mount either
depending on your command?

Be sure not to include MOUNT commands for your system disk shadow set
(if you have one) in your startup procedures. Otherwise you risk
overwriting current data! (See the Vol. Shad. manual for the actual
possible scenario.)

AEF

AEF wrote:
> On Feb 29, 5:46 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
> wrote:
>
>>tadamsmar wrote:
>>
>>>I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
>>>shortly.
>>
>>>The easiest way I can think of is to:
>>
>>>1. Dismount dka100:
>>>2. Power down
>>>3. Swap out dka100:
>>>4. Reboot on dka0:
>>>5. Merge the shadow set
>>>6. Dismount dka0:
>>>7. Power down
>>>8. Swap out dka0:
>>>9. Reboot on dka100:
>>>10. Merge the shadow set
>>
>>>Is there a better way?
>>
>>I think you could skip the power downs and reboots! In my experience,
>>RZ series disks are "hot swapable".
>
>
> Not on my Storage Works shelves/pedestals/towers or whatever the hell
> they're called. (Just what *are* they called?) I tried that on a test
> system and got several disk and SCSI bus errors. I've never done it
> again since. You need shelves/pedestals/towers/whatever that support
> hot swaps.
>
> AEF

The HSZxx and HSJxx controllers supported hot swaps. The HSZ40 had a
button that you pushed in order to "quiesce the bus", after pushing that
button and waiting a short period, you got a visual indicator that it
was safe, for the next 30 seconds, to remove and, optionally, swap a
disk. I don't recall what you did on the HSJs or the HSZ50s.

In a former life I was the junior man in the systems group and had the
privilege of hiking over to the data center and doing these hot swaps.

AEF wrote:
> On Feb 29, 5:46 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
> wrote:
>> tadamsmar wrote:
>>> I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
>>> shortly.
>>> The easiest way I can think of is to:
>>> 1. Dismount dka100:
>>> 2. Power down
>>> 3. Swap out dka100:
>>> 4. Reboot on dka0:
>>> 5. Merge the shadow set
>>> 6. Dismount dka0:
>>> 7. Power down
>>> 8. Swap out dka0:
>>> 9. Reboot on dka100:
>>> 10. Merge the shadow set
>>> Is there a better way?
>> I think you could skip the power downs and reboots! In my experience,
>> RZ series disks are "hot swapable".
>
> Not on my Storage Works shelves/pedestals/towers or whatever the hell
> they're called. (Just what *are* they called?) I tried that on a test
> system and got several disk and SCSI bus errors. I've never done it
> again since. You need shelves/pedestals/towers/whatever that support
> hot swaps.
>
> AEF

I've done that several times on BS350/356 shelfs. You usualy
get a "mount verification" and probably log a few SCSI errors,
but I've never seen anything that the system didn't recover
from without problem.

If it was *my* system, I'd probably just make a dism/swap/remount
on each disk (letting a full shadow copy finish between the two
swaps, of course).

Jan-Erik.

On Feb 29, 10:08 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
wrote:
> AEF wrote:
> > On Feb 29, 5:46 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
> > wrote:
>
> >>tadamsmar wrote:
>
> >>>I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
> >>>shortly.
>
> >>>The easiest way I can think of is to:
>
> >>>1. Dismount dka100:
> >>>2. Power down
> >>>3. Swap out dka100:
> >>>4. Reboot on dka0:
> >>>5. Merge the shadow set
> >>>6. Dismount dka0:
> >>>7. Power down
> >>>8. Swap out dka0:
> >>>9. Reboot on dka100:
> >>>10. Merge the shadow set
>
> >>>Is there a better way?
>
> >>I think you could skip the power downs and reboots! In my experience,
> >>RZ series disks are "hot swapable".
>
> > Not on my Storage Works shelves/pedestals/towers or whatever the hell
> > they're called. (Just what *are* they called?) I tried that on a test
> > system and got several disk and SCSI bus errors. I've never done it
> > again since. You need shelves/pedestals/towers/whatever that support
> > hot swaps.
>
> > AEF
>
> The HSZxx and HSJxx controllers supported hot swaps. The HSZ40 had a
> button that you pushed in order to "quiesce the bus", after pushing that
> button and waiting a short period, you got a visual indicator that it
> was safe, for the next 30 seconds, to remove and, optionally, swap a
> disk. I don't recall what you did on the HSJs or the HSZ50s.
>
> In a former life I was the junior man in the systems group and had the
> privilege of hiking over to the data center and doing these hot swaps.

OK, so then it had nothing to do with the fact that they were RZ
disks. I have plenty of RZ disks. They're only hot swappale in my
equipment if you don't mind the hardware errors that are produced.

AEF

On Mar 1, 5:21 am, Jan-Erik Söderholm
wrote:
> AEF wrote:
> > On Feb 29, 5:46 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
> > wrote:
> >> tadamsmar wrote:
> >>> I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
> >>> shortly.
> >>> The easiest way I can think of is to:
> >>> 1. Dismount dka100:
> >>> 2. Power down
> >>> 3. Swap out dka100:
> >>> 4. Reboot on dka0:
> >>> 5. Merge the shadow set
> >>> 6. Dismount dka0:
> >>> 7. Power down
> >>> 8. Swap out dka0:
> >>> 9. Reboot on dka100:
> >>> 10. Merge the shadow set
> >>> Is there a better way?
> >> I think you could skip the power downs and reboots! In my experience,
> >> RZ series disks are "hot swapable".
>
> > Not on my Storage Works shelves/pedestals/towers or whatever the hell
> > they're called. (Just what *are* they called?) I tried that on a test
> > system and got several disk and SCSI bus errors. I've never done it
> > again since. You need shelves/pedestals/towers/whatever that support
> > hot swaps.
>
> > AEF
>
> I've done that several times on BS350/356 shelfs. You usualy
> get a "mount verification" and probably log a few SCSI errors,
> but I've never seen anything that the system didn't recover
> from without problem.

Well, I'd certainly not hot swap even then unless there were some
pressing need. I'm not terribly fond of Mount Verifications. I once
had trouble with a system occasionally and spontaneously having its
system disk go into Mount Verification mode. Response was rather poor!

AEF

>
> If it was *my* system, I'd probably just make a dism/swap/remount
> on each disk (letting a full shadow copy finish between the two
> swaps, of course).
>
> Jan-Erik.

On Feb 29, 6:24*pm, AEF wrote:
> On Feb 29, 5:03 pm, tadamsmar wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
> > shortly.
>
> > The easiest way I can think of is to:
>
> > 1. *Dismount dka100:
> > 2. *Power down
> > 3. *Swap out dka100:
> > 4. *Reboot on dka0:
> > 5. *Merge the shadow set
> > 6. *Dismount dka0:
> > 7. *Power down
> > 8. *Swap out dka0:
> > 9. *Reboot on dka100:
> > 10. *Merge the shadow set
>
> > Is there a better way?
>
> Are you doing minimum boots? Otherwise won't your startup procedure
> attempt to mount both disks in the shadow set? Or fail to mount either
> depending on your command?
>
> Be sure not to include MOUNT commands for your system disk shadow set
> (if you have one) in your startup procedures. Otherwise you risk
> overwriting current data! (See the Vol. Shad. manual for the actual
> possible scenario.)
>
> AEF- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I don't think any disks are added to the shadow set at startup.

But I probably should make a tape image before I start this just for
safety.

On Mar 2, 8:12 pm, tadamsmar wrote:
> On Feb 29, 6:24 pm, AEF wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 29, 5:03 pm, tadamsmar wrote:
>
> > > I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
> > > shortly.
>
> > > The easiest way I can think of is to:
>
> > > 1. Dismount dka100:
> > > 2. Power down
> > > 3. Swap out dka100:
> > > 4. Reboot on dka0:
> > > 5. Merge the shadow set
> > > 6. Dismount dka0:
> > > 7. Power down
> > > 8. Swap out dka0:
> > > 9. Reboot on dka100:
> > > 10. Merge the shadow set
>
> > > Is there a better way?
>
> > Are you doing minimum boots? Otherwise won't your startup procedure
> > attempt to mount both disks in the shadow set? Or fail to mount either
> > depending on your command?
>
> > Be sure not to include MOUNT commands for your system disk shadow set
> > (if you have one) in your startup procedures. Otherwise you risk
> > overwriting current data! (See the Vol. Shad. manual for the actual
> > possible scenario.)
>
> > AEF- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I don't think any disks are added to the shadow set at startup.
>
> But I probably should make a tape image before I start this just for
> safety.

It's *system disk* shadow sets that you have to not do this for.
System disk shadow sets are automatically reconstructed during the
boot. Non-system disk shadows sets are not and *do* need commands in
the startup procedures to mount. It's only *system disk* shadow sets
that you should not have startup commands for.

AEF

AEF

A two member shadowset for the system disk.

Not sure. The new drives should be about the same size, the vendor is
sending them as replacements, I don't have the exact specs.

There are 2 DS10s, not clustered.

7.3.2 VMS



On Feb 29, 4:30*pm, Jim Mehlhop wrote:
> I am assuming dka100 and dka0 are members of some shadowset. I am
> guessing it is the system disk that you are shadowing but not sure.
> Are the new drives the same size as the old drives? *Are we talking
> about more than one system? *what version of VMS
>
>
>
> tadamsmar wrote:
> > I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
> > shortly.
>
> > The easiest way I can think of is to:
>
> > 1. *Dismount dka100:
> > 2. *Power down
> > 3. *Swap out dka100:
> > 4. *Reboot on dka0:
> > 5. *Merge the shadow set
> > 6. *Dismount dka0:
> > 7. *Power down
> > 8. *Swap out dka0:
> > 9. *Reboot on dka100:
> > 10. *Merge the shadow set
>
> > Is there a better way?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On Mar 3, 7:59*am, AEF wrote:
> On Mar 2, 8:12 pm, tadamsmar wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 29, 6:24 pm, AEF wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 29, 5:03 pm, tadamsmar wrote:
>
> > > > I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
> > > > shortly.
>
> > > > The easiest way I can think of is to:
>
> > > > 1. *Dismount dka100:
> > > > 2. *Power down
> > > > 3. *Swap out dka100:
> > > > 4. *Reboot on dka0:
> > > > 5. *Merge the shadow set
> > > > 6. *Dismount dka0:
> > > > 7. *Power down
> > > > 8. *Swap out dka0:
> > > > 9. *Reboot on dka100:
> > > > 10. *Merge the shadow set
>
> > > > Is there a better way?
>
> > > Are you doing minimum boots? Otherwise won't your startup procedure
> > > attempt to mount both disks in the shadow set? Or fail to mount either
> > > depending on your command?
>
> > > Be sure not to include MOUNT commands for your system disk shadow set
> > > (if you have one) in your startup procedures. Otherwise you risk
> > > overwriting current data! (See the Vol. Shad. manual for the actual
> > > possible scenario.)
>
> > > AEF- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > I don't think any disks are added to the shadow set at startup.
>
> > But I probably should make a tape image before I start this just for
> > safety.
>
> It's *system disk* shadow sets that you have to not do this for.
> System disk shadow sets are automatically reconstructed during the
> boot. Non-system disk shadows sets are not and *do* need commands in
> the startup procedures to mount. It's only *system disk* shadow sets
> that you should not have startup commands for.

If I understand correctly, my system does not do that. I am running
7.3.2.

To make sure, I dismounted dka100 and rebooted. After the system
came back up dka100 was still dismounted. There was a shadowset
consisting of the boot disk dka0, but the dka100 member was not
automatically added.

>
> AEF
>
> AEF- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The system disk shadowset is automatically restored to the state is
was in BEFORE the shutdown. So if you dismount DKA100: before
shutdown, it will remain dismounted after the boot.

Volker.