Swapping new disks into a shadow set - VMS

This is a discussion on Swapping new disks into a shadow set - VMS ; I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set shortly. The easiest way I can think of is to: 1. Dismount dka100: 2. Power down 3. Swap out dka100: 4. Reboot on dka0: 5. Merge the ...

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Thread: Swapping new disks into a shadow set

  1. Swapping new disks into a shadow set

    I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
    shortly.

    The easiest way I can think of is to:

    1. Dismount dka100:
    2. Power down
    3. Swap out dka100:
    4. Reboot on dka0:
    5. Merge the shadow set
    6. Dismount dka0:
    7. Power down
    8. Swap out dka0:
    9. Reboot on dka100:
    10. Merge the shadow set

    Is there a better way?

  2. Re: Swapping new disks into a shadow set

    I am assuming dka100 and dka0 are members of some shadowset. I am
    guessing it is the system disk that you are shadowing but not sure.
    Are the new drives the same size as the old drives? Are we talking
    about more than one system? what version of VMS

    tadamsmar wrote:
    > I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
    > shortly.
    >
    > The easiest way I can think of is to:
    >
    > 1. Dismount dka100:
    > 2. Power down
    > 3. Swap out dka100:
    > 4. Reboot on dka0:
    > 5. Merge the shadow set
    > 6. Dismount dka0:
    > 7. Power down
    > 8. Swap out dka0:
    > 9. Reboot on dka100:
    > 10. Merge the shadow set
    >
    > Is there a better way?


  3. Re: Swapping new disks into a shadow set

    tadamsmar wrote:
    > I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
    > shortly.
    >
    > The easiest way I can think of is to:
    >
    > 1. Dismount dka100:
    > 2. Power down
    > 3. Swap out dka100:
    > 4. Reboot on dka0:
    > 5. Merge the shadow set
    > 6. Dismount dka0:
    > 7. Power down
    > 8. Swap out dka0:
    > 9. Reboot on dka100:
    > 10. Merge the shadow set
    >
    > Is there a better way?


    I think you could skip the power downs and reboots! In my experience,
    RZ series disks are "hot swapable".


  4. Re: Swapping new disks into a shadow set

    tadamsmar wrote:
    > I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
    > shortly.
    >
    > The easiest way I can think of is to:
    >
    > 1. Dismount dka100:


    Since you are swapping a drive, then the new drive will be the target of
    a full copy operation no matter what you do.

    What is important is to ensure the rest of your shawdowset remains up on
    other nodes, and/or is cleanly dismounted so that when it remounts, the
    other members aren't target of merge/mini/full copy operations.

  5. Re: Swapping new disks into a shadow set

    On Feb 29, 5:46 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    wrote:
    > tadamsmar wrote:
    > > I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
    > > shortly.

    >
    > > The easiest way I can think of is to:

    >
    > > 1. Dismount dka100:
    > > 2. Power down
    > > 3. Swap out dka100:
    > > 4. Reboot on dka0:
    > > 5. Merge the shadow set
    > > 6. Dismount dka0:
    > > 7. Power down
    > > 8. Swap out dka0:
    > > 9. Reboot on dka100:
    > > 10. Merge the shadow set

    >
    > > Is there a better way?

    >
    > I think you could skip the power downs and reboots! In my experience,
    > RZ series disks are "hot swapable".


    Not on my Storage Works shelves/pedestals/towers or whatever the hell
    they're called. (Just what *are* they called?) I tried that on a test
    system and got several disk and SCSI bus errors. I've never done it
    again since. You need shelves/pedestals/towers/whatever that support
    hot swaps.

    AEF

  6. Re: Swapping new disks into a shadow set

    On Feb 29, 5:03 pm, tadamsmar wrote:
    > I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
    > shortly.
    >
    > The easiest way I can think of is to:
    >
    > 1. Dismount dka100:
    > 2. Power down
    > 3. Swap out dka100:
    > 4. Reboot on dka0:
    > 5. Merge the shadow set
    > 6. Dismount dka0:
    > 7. Power down
    > 8. Swap out dka0:
    > 9. Reboot on dka100:
    > 10. Merge the shadow set
    >
    > Is there a better way?


    Are you doing minimum boots? Otherwise won't your startup procedure
    attempt to mount both disks in the shadow set? Or fail to mount either
    depending on your command?

    Be sure not to include MOUNT commands for your system disk shadow set
    (if you have one) in your startup procedures. Otherwise you risk
    overwriting current data! (See the Vol. Shad. manual for the actual
    possible scenario.)

    AEF

  7. Re: Swapping new disks into a shadow set

    AEF wrote:
    > On Feb 29, 5:46 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    > wrote:
    >
    >>tadamsmar wrote:
    >>
    >>>I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
    >>>shortly.

    >>
    >>>The easiest way I can think of is to:

    >>
    >>>1. Dismount dka100:
    >>>2. Power down
    >>>3. Swap out dka100:
    >>>4. Reboot on dka0:
    >>>5. Merge the shadow set
    >>>6. Dismount dka0:
    >>>7. Power down
    >>>8. Swap out dka0:
    >>>9. Reboot on dka100:
    >>>10. Merge the shadow set

    >>
    >>>Is there a better way?

    >>
    >>I think you could skip the power downs and reboots! In my experience,
    >>RZ series disks are "hot swapable".

    >
    >
    > Not on my Storage Works shelves/pedestals/towers or whatever the hell
    > they're called. (Just what *are* they called?) I tried that on a test
    > system and got several disk and SCSI bus errors. I've never done it
    > again since. You need shelves/pedestals/towers/whatever that support
    > hot swaps.
    >
    > AEF


    The HSZxx and HSJxx controllers supported hot swaps. The HSZ40 had a
    button that you pushed in order to "quiesce the bus", after pushing that
    button and waiting a short period, you got a visual indicator that it
    was safe, for the next 30 seconds, to remove and, optionally, swap a
    disk. I don't recall what you did on the HSJs or the HSZ50s.

    In a former life I was the junior man in the systems group and had the
    privilege of hiking over to the data center and doing these hot swaps.



  8. Re: Swapping new disks into a shadow set

    AEF wrote:
    > On Feb 29, 5:46 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    > wrote:
    >> tadamsmar wrote:
    >>> I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
    >>> shortly.
    >>> The easiest way I can think of is to:
    >>> 1. Dismount dka100:
    >>> 2. Power down
    >>> 3. Swap out dka100:
    >>> 4. Reboot on dka0:
    >>> 5. Merge the shadow set
    >>> 6. Dismount dka0:
    >>> 7. Power down
    >>> 8. Swap out dka0:
    >>> 9. Reboot on dka100:
    >>> 10. Merge the shadow set
    >>> Is there a better way?

    >> I think you could skip the power downs and reboots! In my experience,
    >> RZ series disks are "hot swapable".

    >
    > Not on my Storage Works shelves/pedestals/towers or whatever the hell
    > they're called. (Just what *are* they called?) I tried that on a test
    > system and got several disk and SCSI bus errors. I've never done it
    > again since. You need shelves/pedestals/towers/whatever that support
    > hot swaps.
    >
    > AEF


    I've done that several times on BS350/356 shelfs. You usualy
    get a "mount verification" and probably log a few SCSI errors,
    but I've never seen anything that the system didn't recover
    from without problem.

    If it was *my* system, I'd probably just make a dism/swap/remount
    on each disk (letting a full shadow copy finish between the two
    swaps, of course).

    Jan-Erik.

  9. Re: Swapping new disks into a shadow set

    On Feb 29, 10:08 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    wrote:
    > AEF wrote:
    > > On Feb 29, 5:46 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    > > wrote:

    >
    > >>tadamsmar wrote:

    >
    > >>>I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
    > >>>shortly.

    >
    > >>>The easiest way I can think of is to:

    >
    > >>>1. Dismount dka100:
    > >>>2. Power down
    > >>>3. Swap out dka100:
    > >>>4. Reboot on dka0:
    > >>>5. Merge the shadow set
    > >>>6. Dismount dka0:
    > >>>7. Power down
    > >>>8. Swap out dka0:
    > >>>9. Reboot on dka100:
    > >>>10. Merge the shadow set

    >
    > >>>Is there a better way?

    >
    > >>I think you could skip the power downs and reboots! In my experience,
    > >>RZ series disks are "hot swapable".

    >
    > > Not on my Storage Works shelves/pedestals/towers or whatever the hell
    > > they're called. (Just what *are* they called?) I tried that on a test
    > > system and got several disk and SCSI bus errors. I've never done it
    > > again since. You need shelves/pedestals/towers/whatever that support
    > > hot swaps.

    >
    > > AEF

    >
    > The HSZxx and HSJxx controllers supported hot swaps. The HSZ40 had a
    > button that you pushed in order to "quiesce the bus", after pushing that
    > button and waiting a short period, you got a visual indicator that it
    > was safe, for the next 30 seconds, to remove and, optionally, swap a
    > disk. I don't recall what you did on the HSJs or the HSZ50s.
    >
    > In a former life I was the junior man in the systems group and had the
    > privilege of hiking over to the data center and doing these hot swaps.


    OK, so then it had nothing to do with the fact that they were RZ
    disks. I have plenty of RZ disks. They're only hot swappale in my
    equipment if you don't mind the hardware errors that are produced.

    AEF

  10. Re: Swapping new disks into a shadow set

    On Mar 1, 5:21 am, Jan-Erik Söderholm
    wrote:
    > AEF wrote:
    > > On Feb 29, 5:46 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    > > wrote:
    > >> tadamsmar wrote:
    > >>> I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
    > >>> shortly.
    > >>> The easiest way I can think of is to:
    > >>> 1. Dismount dka100:
    > >>> 2. Power down
    > >>> 3. Swap out dka100:
    > >>> 4. Reboot on dka0:
    > >>> 5. Merge the shadow set
    > >>> 6. Dismount dka0:
    > >>> 7. Power down
    > >>> 8. Swap out dka0:
    > >>> 9. Reboot on dka100:
    > >>> 10. Merge the shadow set
    > >>> Is there a better way?
    > >> I think you could skip the power downs and reboots! In my experience,
    > >> RZ series disks are "hot swapable".

    >
    > > Not on my Storage Works shelves/pedestals/towers or whatever the hell
    > > they're called. (Just what *are* they called?) I tried that on a test
    > > system and got several disk and SCSI bus errors. I've never done it
    > > again since. You need shelves/pedestals/towers/whatever that support
    > > hot swaps.

    >
    > > AEF

    >
    > I've done that several times on BS350/356 shelfs. You usualy
    > get a "mount verification" and probably log a few SCSI errors,
    > but I've never seen anything that the system didn't recover
    > from without problem.


    Well, I'd certainly not hot swap even then unless there were some
    pressing need. I'm not terribly fond of Mount Verifications. I once
    had trouble with a system occasionally and spontaneously having its
    system disk go into Mount Verification mode. Response was rather poor!

    AEF

    >
    > If it was *my* system, I'd probably just make a dism/swap/remount
    > on each disk (letting a full shadow copy finish between the two
    > swaps, of course).
    >
    > Jan-Erik.



  11. Re: Swapping new disks into a shadow set

    On Feb 29, 6:24*pm, AEF wrote:
    > On Feb 29, 5:03 pm, tadamsmar wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
    > > shortly.

    >
    > > The easiest way I can think of is to:

    >
    > > 1. *Dismount dka100:
    > > 2. *Power down
    > > 3. *Swap out dka100:
    > > 4. *Reboot on dka0:
    > > 5. *Merge the shadow set
    > > 6. *Dismount dka0:
    > > 7. *Power down
    > > 8. *Swap out dka0:
    > > 9. *Reboot on dka100:
    > > 10. *Merge the shadow set

    >
    > > Is there a better way?

    >
    > Are you doing minimum boots? Otherwise won't your startup procedure
    > attempt to mount both disks in the shadow set? Or fail to mount either
    > depending on your command?
    >
    > Be sure not to include MOUNT commands for your system disk shadow set
    > (if you have one) in your startup procedures. Otherwise you risk
    > overwriting current data! (See the Vol. Shad. manual for the actual
    > possible scenario.)
    >
    > AEF- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    I don't think any disks are added to the shadow set at startup.

    But I probably should make a tape image before I start this just for
    safety.

  12. Re: Swapping new disks into a shadow set

    On Mar 2, 8:12 pm, tadamsmar wrote:
    > On Feb 29, 6:24 pm, AEF wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Feb 29, 5:03 pm, tadamsmar wrote:

    >
    > > > I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
    > > > shortly.

    >
    > > > The easiest way I can think of is to:

    >
    > > > 1. Dismount dka100:
    > > > 2. Power down
    > > > 3. Swap out dka100:
    > > > 4. Reboot on dka0:
    > > > 5. Merge the shadow set
    > > > 6. Dismount dka0:
    > > > 7. Power down
    > > > 8. Swap out dka0:
    > > > 9. Reboot on dka100:
    > > > 10. Merge the shadow set

    >
    > > > Is there a better way?

    >
    > > Are you doing minimum boots? Otherwise won't your startup procedure
    > > attempt to mount both disks in the shadow set? Or fail to mount either
    > > depending on your command?

    >
    > > Be sure not to include MOUNT commands for your system disk shadow set
    > > (if you have one) in your startup procedures. Otherwise you risk
    > > overwriting current data! (See the Vol. Shad. manual for the actual
    > > possible scenario.)

    >
    > > AEF- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > I don't think any disks are added to the shadow set at startup.
    >
    > But I probably should make a tape image before I start this just for
    > safety.


    It's *system disk* shadow sets that you have to not do this for.
    System disk shadow sets are automatically reconstructed during the
    boot. Non-system disk shadows sets are not and *do* need commands in
    the startup procedures to mount. It's only *system disk* shadow sets
    that you should not have startup commands for.

    AEF

    AEF

  13. Re: Swapping new disks into a shadow set

    A two member shadowset for the system disk.

    Not sure. The new drives should be about the same size, the vendor is
    sending them as replacements, I don't have the exact specs.

    There are 2 DS10s, not clustered.

    7.3.2 VMS



    On Feb 29, 4:30*pm, Jim Mehlhop wrote:
    > I am assuming dka100 and dka0 are members of some shadowset. I am
    > guessing it is the system disk that you are shadowing but not sure.
    > Are the new drives the same size as the old drives? *Are we talking
    > about more than one system? *what version of VMS
    >
    >
    >
    > tadamsmar wrote:
    > > I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
    > > shortly.

    >
    > > The easiest way I can think of is to:

    >
    > > 1. *Dismount dka100:
    > > 2. *Power down
    > > 3. *Swap out dka100:
    > > 4. *Reboot on dka0:
    > > 5. *Merge the shadow set
    > > 6. *Dismount dka0:
    > > 7. *Power down
    > > 8. *Swap out dka0:
    > > 9. *Reboot on dka100:
    > > 10. *Merge the shadow set

    >
    > > Is there a better way?- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > - Show quoted text -



  14. Re: Swapping new disks into a shadow set

    On Mar 3, 7:59*am, AEF wrote:
    > On Mar 2, 8:12 pm, tadamsmar wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Feb 29, 6:24 pm, AEF wrote:

    >
    > > > On Feb 29, 5:03 pm, tadamsmar wrote:

    >
    > > > > I will be replacing the 2 physical disk drives in a shadow set
    > > > > shortly.

    >
    > > > > The easiest way I can think of is to:

    >
    > > > > 1. *Dismount dka100:
    > > > > 2. *Power down
    > > > > 3. *Swap out dka100:
    > > > > 4. *Reboot on dka0:
    > > > > 5. *Merge the shadow set
    > > > > 6. *Dismount dka0:
    > > > > 7. *Power down
    > > > > 8. *Swap out dka0:
    > > > > 9. *Reboot on dka100:
    > > > > 10. *Merge the shadow set

    >
    > > > > Is there a better way?

    >
    > > > Are you doing minimum boots? Otherwise won't your startup procedure
    > > > attempt to mount both disks in the shadow set? Or fail to mount either
    > > > depending on your command?

    >
    > > > Be sure not to include MOUNT commands for your system disk shadow set
    > > > (if you have one) in your startup procedures. Otherwise you risk
    > > > overwriting current data! (See the Vol. Shad. manual for the actual
    > > > possible scenario.)

    >
    > > > AEF- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > > I don't think any disks are added to the shadow set at startup.

    >
    > > But I probably should make a tape image before I start this just for
    > > safety.

    >
    > It's *system disk* shadow sets that you have to not do this for.
    > System disk shadow sets are automatically reconstructed during the
    > boot. Non-system disk shadows sets are not and *do* need commands in
    > the startup procedures to mount. It's only *system disk* shadow sets
    > that you should not have startup commands for.


    If I understand correctly, my system does not do that. I am running
    7.3.2.

    To make sure, I dismounted dka100 and rebooted. After the system
    came back up dka100 was still dismounted. There was a shadowset
    consisting of the boot disk dka0, but the dka100 member was not
    automatically added.

    >
    > AEF
    >
    > AEF- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -



  15. Re: Swapping new disks into a shadow set

    The system disk shadowset is automatically restored to the state is
    was in BEFORE the shutdown. So if you dismount DKA100: before
    shutdown, it will remain dismounted after the boot.

    Volker.

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