Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) - VMS

This is a discussion on Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) - VMS ; moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007 12:23:36 PM: > norm.raphael@metso.com writes: > > >This is a multipart message in MIME format. > >--=_alternative 00588A2B852573B0_= > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > >moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007 > >08:52:23 AM: > ...

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Thread: Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO))

  1. Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO))

    moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007
    12:23:36 PM:

    > norm.raphael@metso.com writes:
    >
    > >This is a multipart message in MIME format.
    > >--=_alternative 00588A2B852573B0_=
    > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

    >
    > >moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007
    > >08:52:23 AM:

    >
    > >> In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG

    > >writes:
    > >> > In article <47607D71.2040505@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    > >> writes:
    > >> >>
    > >> >>
    > >> >>Rich Jordan wrote:
    > >> >>> On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, "B H" wrote:
    > >> >>>
    > >>

    >
    >>>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/...D=/20071212/NE...
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>>
    > >> >>> Thats just too bad. Given a choice between New Hampshire and
    > >> >>> taxachussetts, a state that gives Ill-annoy a run for the "most
    > >> >>> incompetent and corrupt" title, I know where I'd prefer to live

    and
    > >> >>> work... That and I got to visit that facility a couple of

    times...
    > >it
    > >> >>> feels like more of a loss because of those trips.
    > >> >>
    > >> >>I thought everyone knew that New Jersey is the "most incompetent

    and
    > >> >>corrupt"!
    > >> >
    > >> > I wasn't going to bring it up.
    > >>
    > >> Rhode Island.
    > >>
    > >> With a population and area smaller than New Hampshire, they have

    almost
    > >> twice as many state employees as NH, many of them patronage

    positions.
    > >> Maybe the people don't mind. The former mayor of Providence just got
    > >> back from a few years in federal prison for corruption to a hero's
    > >> welcome.

    >
    > >It is a condition of the forming of the United States of America that

    the
    > >older states, with their legacy of colonial governments, are the most
    > >likely to be (seen as) corrupt. They have institutionalized patronage
    > >systems and no incentive to change cultures, in fact the opposite.

    >
    > I think it has more to do with where powerful political machines existed
    > in the late 1800s, which probably depended on where the big cities of

    the
    > time were.
    >
    > I don't sense NH, one of the original 13 colonies, as corrupt nor states
    > like NC SC GA or DE as any worse than average. Also among the 13.
    >


    Yes, the ones with seaports, commerce, cities are indeed the ones.

    > >[Massachusetts has an elected Governor's Council which was created in
    > >colonial times as a check on the Crown-appointed Governor and which has


    > >left only the power to confirm judicial appointments, and which has
    > >successfully withstood numerous calls and campaigns for its

    elimination.
    > >Seven pols no one can name - odds are no one can name even his/her own

    -
    > >who are a needless drain on the treasury, but it's a political

    sinecure.]
    >
    > Yes, that Governor's Council is a joke.
    >
    > >Also, Mass. and Penn. and Va. (and Ky, for some reason) are
    > >Commonwealths, an even older form of government where the cities and
    > >towns are creatures of the state with no power of their own to tax.

    >
    > "Commonwealth" for those four states is just a name, it has nothing to
    > do with the type of government or anything. It's not like the

    Commonwealth
    > of Puerto Rico, which is a unique creature, and not a state.


    I am not a poli-sci major, but a Commonwealth state is in fact a
    different "type of government." Notice that those in Ky who want to avail

    themselves of a gambling casino must cross the river to Ohio. There are
    not
    yet any in Mass. either, whereas in N.J. the world is different. This is
    not a coincidence.

    Puerto Rico is a Trust Territory, something outside the scope of this
    discussion (which I prefer to leave outside).

    >
    > New England type towns are pretty much unique to New England, and I'm
    > pretty sure cities and towns in PA VA KY are quite different, and

    different
    > from each other.
    >



  2. Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO))

    On Dec 13, 12:34 pm, norm.raph...@metso.com wrote:
    > different "type of government." Notice that those in Ky who want to avail
    >
    > themselves of a gambling casino must cross the river to Ohio. There are
    > not
    > yet any in Mass. either, whereas in N.J. the world is different. This is
    > not a coincidence.


    Actually it's Indiana that has the casinos on the Ohio river. Us in
    Ohio must go elsewhere for casino gambling. Though last March there
    was a referendum about putting slots in certain places.

  3. Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO))

    In article ,
    norm.raphael@metso.com writes:
    > This is a multipart message in MIME format.
    > --=_alternative 00608760852573B0_=
    > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
    >
    > moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007
    > 12:23:36 PM:
    >
    >> norm.raphael@metso.com writes:
    >>
    >> >This is a multipart message in MIME format.
    >> >--=_alternative 00588A2B852573B0_=
    >> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

    >>
    >> >moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007
    >> >08:52:23 AM:

    >>
    >> >> In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG
    >> >writes:
    >> >> > In article <47607D71.2040505@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    >> >> writes:
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >>Rich Jordan wrote:
    >> >> >>> On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, "B H" wrote:
    >> >> >>>
    >> >>

    >>
    >>>>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/...D=/20071212/NE...
    >> >> >>>
    >> >> >>>
    >> >> >>> Thats just too bad. Given a choice between New Hampshire and
    >> >> >>> taxachussetts, a state that gives Ill-annoy a run for the "most
    >> >> >>> incompetent and corrupt" title, I know where I'd prefer to live

    > and
    >> >> >>> work... That and I got to visit that facility a couple of

    > times...
    >> >it
    >> >> >>> feels like more of a loss because of those trips.
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >>I thought everyone knew that New Jersey is the "most incompetent

    > and
    >> >> >>corrupt"!
    >> >> >
    >> >> > I wasn't going to bring it up.
    >> >>
    >> >> Rhode Island.
    >> >>
    >> >> With a population and area smaller than New Hampshire, they have

    > almost
    >> >> twice as many state employees as NH, many of them patronage

    > positions.
    >> >> Maybe the people don't mind. The former mayor of Providence just got
    >> >> back from a few years in federal prison for corruption to a hero's
    >> >> welcome.

    >>
    >> >It is a condition of the forming of the United States of America that

    > the
    >> >older states, with their legacy of colonial governments, are the most
    >> >likely to be (seen as) corrupt. They have institutionalized patronage
    >> >systems and no incentive to change cultures, in fact the opposite.

    >>
    >> I think it has more to do with where powerful political machines existed
    >> in the late 1800s, which probably depended on where the big cities of

    > the
    >> time were.
    >>
    >> I don't sense NH, one of the original 13 colonies, as corrupt nor states
    >> like NC SC GA or DE as any worse than average. Also among the 13.
    >>

    >
    > Yes, the ones with seaports, commerce, cities are indeed the ones.
    >
    >> >[Massachusetts has an elected Governor's Council which was created in
    >> >colonial times as a check on the Crown-appointed Governor and which has

    >
    >> >left only the power to confirm judicial appointments, and which has
    >> >successfully withstood numerous calls and campaigns for its

    > elimination.
    >> >Seven pols no one can name - odds are no one can name even his/her own

    > -
    >> >who are a needless drain on the treasury, but it's a political

    > sinecure.]
    >>
    >> Yes, that Governor's Council is a joke.
    >>
    >> >Also, Mass. and Penn. and Va. (and Ky, for some reason) are
    >> >Commonwealths, an even older form of government where the cities and
    >> >towns are creatures of the state with no power of their own to tax.

    >>
    >> "Commonwealth" for those four states is just a name, it has nothing to
    >> do with the type of government or anything. It's not like the

    > Commonwealth
    >> of Puerto Rico, which is a unique creature, and not a state.

    >
    > I am not a poli-sci major, but a Commonwealth state is in fact a
    > different "type of government." Notice that those in Ky who want to avail
    >
    > themselves of a gambling casino must cross the river to Ohio. There are
    > not
    > yet any in Mass. either, whereas in N.J. the world is different. This is
    > not a coincidence.


    Sorry to throw a monkey wrench into your premise, but PA has got em. One
    owned by Connecticut Indians and one owned by, well, let's not go into
    that.

    bill


    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  4. Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO))

    norm.raphael@metso.com writes:

    >This is a multipart message in MIME format.
    >--=_alternative 00608760852573B0_=
    >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"


    >moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007
    >12:23:36 PM:


    >> norm.raphael@metso.com writes:
    >>
    >> >This is a multipart message in MIME format.
    >> >--=_alternative 00588A2B852573B0_=
    >> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

    >>
    >> >Also, Mass. and Penn. and Va. (and Ky, for some reason) are
    >> >Commonwealths, an even older form of government where the cities and
    >> >towns are creatures of the state with no power of their own to tax.

    >>
    >> "Commonwealth" for those four states is just a name, it has nothing to
    >> do with the type of government or anything. It's not like the

    >Commonwealth
    >> of Puerto Rico, which is a unique creature, and not a state.


    >I am not a poli-sci major, but a Commonwealth state is in fact a
    >different "type of government." Notice that those in Ky who want to avail
    >themselves of a gambling casino must cross the river to Ohio. There are
    >not
    >yet any in Mass. either, whereas in N.J. the world is different. This is
    >not a coincidence.


    A while ago I asked my sister, who was working as the chief aid for a
    Massachusetts state senator at the time, and has a master's in political
    science, about the very question why Mass. is a commonwealth. She told
    me it was meaningless. I pressed her on it and she told me all it was was
    what the states decided to call themselves in seventeen-mumblemumble,
    nothing more.

    Casinos have nothing to do with it. Mass. is close to getting Indian
    casinos, if it doesn't happen it'll be because of local opposition,
    not because Mass. calls itself a commonwealth. Mass. was one of the
    earlier states to have a state lottery BTW. I'd think where casinos
    are least likely to happen is the South with opposition from Southern
    Baptists who consider it "sinful", but even there the Feds have quite
    a bit of say when Indian tribes are involved.

    The different states pretty much all run themselves differently. But
    there are 50 different methods, not 2 (commonwealth/state).

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