OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) - VMS

This is a discussion on OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) - VMS ; moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007 08:52:23 AM: > In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > > In article , "Richard B. Gilbert" > writes: > >> > >> > >>Rich Jordan wrote: > >>> On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, ...

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Thread: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO))

  1. OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO))

    moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007
    08:52:23 AM:

    > In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG

    writes:
    > > In article <47607D71.2040505@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert"

    > writes:
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>Rich Jordan wrote:
    > >>> On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, "B H" wrote:
    > >>>

    >
    >>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/...D=/20071212/NE...
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>> Thats just too bad. Given a choice between New Hampshire and
    > >>> taxachussetts, a state that gives Ill-annoy a run for the "most
    > >>> incompetent and corrupt" title, I know where I'd prefer to live and
    > >>> work... That and I got to visit that facility a couple of times...

    it
    > >>> feels like more of a loss because of those trips.
    > >>
    > >>I thought everyone knew that New Jersey is the "most incompetent and
    > >>corrupt"!

    > >
    > > I wasn't going to bring it up.

    >
    > Rhode Island.
    >
    > With a population and area smaller than New Hampshire, they have almost
    > twice as many state employees as NH, many of them patronage positions.
    > Maybe the people don't mind. The former mayor of Providence just got
    > back from a few years in federal prison for corruption to a hero's
    > welcome.


    It is a condition of the forming of the United States of America that the
    older states, with their legacy of colonial governments, are the most
    likely to be (seen as) corrupt. They have institutionalized patronage
    systems and no incentive to change cultures, in fact the opposite.

    [Massachusetts has an elected Governor's Council which was created in
    colonial times as a check on the Crown-appointed Governor and which has
    left only the power to confirm judicial appointments, and which has
    successfully withstood numerous calls and campaigns for its elimination.
    Seven pols no one can name - odds are no one can name even his/her own -
    who are a needless drain on the treasury, but it's a political sinecure.]

    Also, Mass. and Penn. and Va. (and Ky, for some reason) are
    Commonwealths, an even older form of government where the cities and
    towns are creatures of the state with no power of their own to tax.
    In Mass., the legislature controls the budget of the courts - not exactly
    three separate branches. Then there is the Big Dig - $15 Billion and
    one confirmed negligent death, which will be "finished" 12/31/07.

    On the other hand, no state is "a city on a hill."

  2. Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO))

    norm.raphael@metso.com writes:

    >This is a multipart message in MIME format.
    >--=_alternative 00588A2B852573B0_=
    >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"


    >moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007
    >08:52:23 AM:


    >> In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG

    >writes:
    >> > In article <47607D71.2040505@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert"

    >> writes:
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >>Rich Jordan wrote:
    >> >>> On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, "B H" wrote:
    >> >>>

    >>
    >>>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/...D=/20071212/NE...
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>> Thats just too bad. Given a choice between New Hampshire and
    >> >>> taxachussetts, a state that gives Ill-annoy a run for the "most
    >> >>> incompetent and corrupt" title, I know where I'd prefer to live and
    >> >>> work... That and I got to visit that facility a couple of times...

    >it
    >> >>> feels like more of a loss because of those trips.
    >> >>
    >> >>I thought everyone knew that New Jersey is the "most incompetent and
    >> >>corrupt"!
    >> >
    >> > I wasn't going to bring it up.

    >>
    >> Rhode Island.
    >>
    >> With a population and area smaller than New Hampshire, they have almost
    >> twice as many state employees as NH, many of them patronage positions.
    >> Maybe the people don't mind. The former mayor of Providence just got
    >> back from a few years in federal prison for corruption to a hero's
    >> welcome.


    >It is a condition of the forming of the United States of America that the
    >older states, with their legacy of colonial governments, are the most
    >likely to be (seen as) corrupt. They have institutionalized patronage
    >systems and no incentive to change cultures, in fact the opposite.


    I think it has more to do with where powerful political machines existed
    in the late 1800s, which probably depended on where the big cities of the
    time were.

    I don't sense NH, one of the original 13 colonies, as corrupt nor states
    like NC SC GA or DE as any worse than average. Also among the 13.

    >[Massachusetts has an elected Governor's Council which was created in
    >colonial times as a check on the Crown-appointed Governor and which has
    >left only the power to confirm judicial appointments, and which has
    >successfully withstood numerous calls and campaigns for its elimination.
    >Seven pols no one can name - odds are no one can name even his/her own -
    >who are a needless drain on the treasury, but it's a political sinecure.]


    Yes, that Governor's Council is a joke.

    >Also, Mass. and Penn. and Va. (and Ky, for some reason) are
    >Commonwealths, an even older form of government where the cities and
    >towns are creatures of the state with no power of their own to tax.


    "Commonwealth" for those four states is just a name, it has nothing to
    do with the type of government or anything. It's not like the Commonwealth
    of Puerto Rico, which is a unique creature, and not a state.

    New England type towns are pretty much unique to New England, and I'm
    pretty sure cities and towns in PA VA KY are quite different, and different
    from each other.


  3. Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO))

    In article ,
    norm.raphael@metso.com writes:
    > This is a multipart message in MIME format.
    > --=_alternative 00588A2B852573B0_=
    > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
    >
    > moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007
    > 08:52:23 AM:
    >
    >> In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG

    > writes:
    >> > In article <47607D71.2040505@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert"

    >> writes:
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >>Rich Jordan wrote:
    >> >>> On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, "B H" wrote:
    >> >>>

    >>
    >>>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/...D=/20071212/NE...
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>> Thats just too bad. Given a choice between New Hampshire and
    >> >>> taxachussetts, a state that gives Ill-annoy a run for the "most
    >> >>> incompetent and corrupt" title, I know where I'd prefer to live and
    >> >>> work... That and I got to visit that facility a couple of times...

    > it
    >> >>> feels like more of a loss because of those trips.
    >> >>
    >> >>I thought everyone knew that New Jersey is the "most incompetent and
    >> >>corrupt"!
    >> >
    >> > I wasn't going to bring it up.

    >>
    >> Rhode Island.
    >>
    >> With a population and area smaller than New Hampshire, they have almost
    >> twice as many state employees as NH, many of them patronage positions.
    >> Maybe the people don't mind. The former mayor of Providence just got
    >> back from a few years in federal prison for corruption to a hero's
    >> welcome.

    >
    > It is a condition of the forming of the United States of America that the
    > older states, with their legacy of colonial governments, are the most
    > likely to be (seen as) corrupt. They have institutionalized patronage
    > systems and no incentive to change cultures, in fact the opposite.
    >
    > [Massachusetts has an elected Governor's Council which was created in
    > colonial times as a check on the Crown-appointed Governor and which has
    > left only the power to confirm judicial appointments, and which has
    > successfully withstood numerous calls and campaigns for its elimination.
    > Seven pols no one can name - odds are no one can name even his/her own -
    > who are a needless drain on the treasury, but it's a political sinecure.]
    >
    > Also, Mass. and Penn. and Va. (and Ky, for some reason) are
    > Commonwealths, an even older form of government where the cities and
    > towns are creatures of the state with no power of their own to tax.


    Since when? We have local taxes everywhere in PA. I pay them here and
    the town is only 4 blocks on a side, square.

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

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