OT: One Laptop per Child - VMS

This is a discussion on OT: One Laptop per Child - VMS ; Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > Again, will having learned current computer technology help 30 years > from now, when this technology will probably be quite different? How do you now learn about new stuff ? By using current ...

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Thread: OT: One Laptop per Child

  1. Re: OT: One Laptop per Child

    Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:
    > Again, will having learned current computer technology help 30 years
    > from now, when this technology will probably be quite different?



    How do you now learn about new stuff ? By using current browsers on the
    current internet.

    These people are given tools to not only learn the basics abouta
    computer, but also learn new stuff by using the computer as a tool to learn.

    Remember that they do not have amazon.com or any large book store that
    sells new books at affordable prices. But if they can download books on
    their laptops, then can then learn by using materials supplied by the
    school/government.

    Furthermore, by knowing about the internet, it also helps ensure proper
    democratisation because the kids, when growing up, will not rely
    exclusively on what their government is telling them, and this forces
    governments to be more honest with the people.

    Contrary to what Rumsfeld/Cheney/Wolfowitz promised, you cannot impose
    freedom of choice and democracy on a country just like that. It has to
    grow from within and evolve. And providing people with access to
    information is a very good way to move the process forwards.

  2. Re: OT: One Laptop per Child

    In article <33caa$475e6f0a$cef8887a$32523@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei
    writes:

    > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:
    > > Again, will having learned current computer technology help 30 years
    > > from now, when this technology will probably be quite different?

    >
    > How do you now learn about new stuff ? By using current browsers on the
    > current internet.


    True, to some extent. However, I doubt that learning from the internet
    is at the top of the list of priorities for most pupils.

    > These people are given tools to not only learn the basics abouta
    > computer, but also learn new stuff by using the computer as a tool to learn.


    OK, but they will tend to get tied to that platform. This problem
    exists already, of course (how many pages have you seen which say "best
    viewed with Internet Explorer"?), but will exist in much larger form if
    all children have the same laptop. If they can't learn something else
    later, then this is a reason to avoid OLPC. If they can, then OLPC
    isn't necessary.

    > Remember that they do not have amazon.com or any large book store that
    > sells new books at affordable prices. But if they can download books on
    > their laptops, then can then learn by using materials supplied by the
    > school/government.


    I don't know if that is possible with these things.

    > Furthermore, by knowing about the internet, it also helps ensure proper
    > democratisation because the kids, when growing up, will not rely
    > exclusively on what their government is telling them, and this forces
    > governments to be more honest with the people.


    I doubt that. If a country has problems with what its people read, it
    will take steps to stop them from doing so. See China.

    > Contrary to what Rumsfeld/Cheney/Wolfowitz promised, you cannot impose
    > freedom of choice and democracy on a country just like that. It has to
    > grow from within and evolve. And providing people with access to
    > information is a very good way to move the process forwards.


    I agree.

    What bothers me the most is the emphasis on the laptop. A better
    approach would be public web access.


  3. Re: One Laptop per Child

    I wonder how long it will be before we see stolen OLPC laptops on Ebay!?!?

    ;0|

    --
    David B Turner
    Island Computers US Corp
    2700 Gregory St, Suite 180
    Savannah GA 31404

    T: 877-6364332 x201
    Intl: 001 912 447 6622
    E: dturner@islandco.com
    F: 912 201 0402
    W: http://www.islandco.com




    The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
    which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or
    privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
    of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or
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    computers.

    "JF Mezei" wrote in message
    news:d214$475a6b54$cef8887a$29487@TEKSAVVY.COM...
    > Right now, Linux is being used for the "One Laptop per Child" projects
    > around the world.
    >
    > Microsoft, not wanting to be left out, has setup a team of 40 people
    > trying to fit Windows and office on 1gig (they can't) so now they will
    > pay for flash cards and the hardware needed to be added on the cheap
    > laptops, and they still are having problems fitting the bloat that is
    > Windows onto those cards. And they will also need to update the laptop's
    > firmware to support booting from the additional flashcards.
    >
    > Just imagine if many years ago, VMS management had listened to Mr
    > Dachtera and ported VMS to the then 32 bit 8086. Today, they could load
    > VMS on those laptops with space to spare simply because VMS engineers
    > have always been fairly mature, efficient and frugal in system resources
    > needed to run their software. It would have paid off big time if VMS had
    > been selected to be the OS of choice for those laptops all around the
    > world. (put in Mosaic, update MAIL and DECWRITE and you're set).
    >
    > It, way too late now, of course.
    >
    > But it is interesting to see Microsoft struggle with this and hopefully
    > they will fail and millions of kids around the world will learn Linux
    > first.




  4. Re: One Laptop per Child

    In article <13ltfkgjv4vqbe@news.supernews.com>,
    "David Turner, Island Computers" writes:
    > I wonder how long it will be before we see stolen OLPC laptops on Ebay!?!?


    Knowing who the target market is why wold they need to be stolen? The
    residents of most of these third world countries sell their kids do you
    think they won't sell the free PC someone gives them?

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  5. Re: OT: One Laptop per Child

    On Dec 10, 9:32 pm, AEF wrote:
    > On Dec 10, 7:16 pm, Michael Kraemer wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > JF Mezei schrieb:

    >
    > > > A properly written page will display its contents in a readable form on
    > > > ANY, I repeat : **ANY** browser.

    >
    > > > This was the goal of HTML from the start.

    >
    > > most people know that, but few people care, it seems.

    >
    > > > Mosaic does a very good job of displaying HTML stuff. It is also very
    > > > fast and doesn't leak memory like Mozilla which sinks a huge pgflquota
    > > > in no time.

    >
    > > > Mosaic lacks Javascript, style sheets (some sites use this to make
    > > > layers visible/invible to simulate pull down menus) and iframes (not
    > > > 100% sure about last one, Mr cook may have implented it).

    >
    > > > Obviously, it lacks all plugs ins, but so does Mozilla on VMS.

    >
    > > > But it is still the safest way to navigate the web. Even Mozilla on VMS
    > > > sometimes attempts to delete files in system directories.

    >
    > > that's all nice and well, but let's come back to the original
    > > goal of supplying children with Mosaic browsers.
    > > After having solved the problem of electricity supply

    >
    > IIRC, the laptops can be crank-charged and a charge last for 12 hours
    > or more.
    >
    > > for their laptops they will demand the same cool stuff
    > > as all the other teenies in the world:
    > > visiting cool sites (requiring JavaScript, flash plugins, etc),
    > > listening to web radio and watching youtube videos.

    >
    > Did you see the 60 minutes story on this?
    >


    Yes, and the video of the segment is on-line. For those without
    Javascript enabled and/or no Adobe Flash plug-in or who don't want to
    sit through a 30 second commercial first, the full text is also here:

    <http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/20/60minutes/
    main2830058.shtml>


  6. Re: OT: One Laptop per Child

    On Dec 10, 3:38 am, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---
    remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote:
    > In article
    > <7c16e6f4-35f6-44d8-8503-5765d580b...@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, AEF
    >
    > writes:
    > > Did you see the piece about this on "60 Minutes"?

    >
    > No.
    >
    > > I heard a broadcast
    > > of it on the radio and the point was that with this project,
    > > attendance at schools in the Third World is way, way up because of
    > > this laptop project. I well understand that much learning must be done
    > > without computers, but at least this is getting the kids to go to
    > > school. So I think the point is not that the kids have a laptop -- the
    > > point is that the laptop gets the kids to go to school.

    >
    > That might be true, but I doubt that that is the motivation for those
    > behind the project. Considering the cost, I'm sure that one could spend
    > the equivalent on almost anything else and get the children to school
    > with that as bait.


    Like what? Soda? Candy? Just what they need.

    Can you give us at least *some* idea of the horrors that will result
    from this?

    >----o----<


    Well, here's the actual story. Unfortunately, it is lacking in details
    on just exactly what do the kids do or get to do on the laptops:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2830058.shtml

    AEF

  7. Re: OT: One Laptop per Child

    On Dec 11, 2:21 pm, AEF wrote:
    > On Dec 10, 3:38 am, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---
    > remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > In article
    > > <7c16e6f4-35f6-44d8-8503-5765d580b...@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, AEF

    >
    > > writes:
    > > > Did you see the piece about this on "60 Minutes"?

    >
    > > No.

    >
    > > > I heard a broadcast
    > > > of it on the radio and the point was that with this project,
    > > > attendance at schools in the Third World is way, way up because of
    > > > this laptop project. I well understand that much learning must be done
    > > > without computers, but at least this is getting the kids to go to
    > > > school. So I think the point is not that the kids have a laptop -- the
    > > > point is that the laptop gets the kids to go to school.

    >
    > > That might be true, but I doubt that that is the motivation for those
    > > behind the project. Considering the cost, I'm sure that one could spend
    > > the equivalent on almost anything else and get the children to school
    > > with that as bait.

    >
    > Like what? Soda? Candy? Just what they need.
    >
    > Can you give us at least *some* idea of the horrors that will result
    > from this?
    >
    > >----o----<

    >
    > Well, here's the actual story. Unfortunately, it is lacking in details
    > on just exactly what do the kids do or get to do on the laptops:
    >
    > http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2830058.shtml
    >


    Follow the links at:
    and


  8. Re: OT: One Laptop per Child

    In article , Michael Kraemer writes:
    > Larry Kilgallen schrieb:
    >
    >> Not keeping up with Java and Javascript seems a benefit to me.
    >>
    >> I am less impressed by not keeping up with cascading style sheets,
    >> but I don't know enough about those to see any security implications.

    >
    > well, if your browser doesn't support these,
    > you are simply locked out from am increasingly
    > large part of modern communication.


    That does not seem responsive to the security question I raised.

    >> But I do not know what "official" means in the context of free
    >> software.

    >
    > "official" in this context means that once upon a time
    > there was a dedicated group of individuals at NCSA
    > who took care of developing Mosaic for a variety of platforms.
    > Nowadays Mosaic is abandonware (with the latest release 2.7
    > you can't even render NCSA's home page properly),
    > apart from Mr Cooks appreciated efforts to keep it alive
    > at least on VMS.


    Why should I care whether it is on other platforms ?

  9. Re: OT: One Laptop per Child

    In article , Michael Kraemer writes:
    > JF Mezei schrieb:
    >
    >> Remember that if a couple of people in a village get jobs, the spending
    >> they do in that village will greatly help the rest of the village.

    >
    > Provided said village has electricity at all
    > (preferably generated by solar panels),
    > otherwise the cool laptop would be just an
    > expensive door stop.


    You seem to have not been paying attention to the part about being
    able to charge the laptop yourself with a hand crank. You should
    really make arrangements to see the 60 Minutes episode.

  10. Re: One Laptop per Child

    In article <13ltfkgjv4vqbe@news.supernews.com>, "David Turner, Island Computers" writes:

    > I wonder how long it will be before we see stolen OLPC laptops on Ebay!?!?


    They do not have to be stolen. You can buy them so long as you
    also pay for one to be sent abroad.

  11. Re: OT: One Laptop per Child

    Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:
    > What bothers me the most is the emphasis on the laptop. A better
    > approach would be public web access.


    In the west, the emphasis is on the commercial aspect of the laptop (who
    builds it, what technology there is, how much it costs).

    But out there, it is what you can do with it that matters. And in a town
    without landline phones, they can deploy internet access via wireless
    (those laptops are equipped with wireless).

  12. Re: OT: One Laptop per Child

    In article <475de9e9$0$90267$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes:
    >
    > We are over 50000 for Windows I believe.
    >

    Over 150,000. Of which the typical anti-virus tool protects you
    against 50,000 to 75,000.


  13. Windows viruses (was: One Laptop per Child)

    In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:
    > In article <475de9e9$0$90267$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes:
    >>
    >> We are over 50000 for Windows I believe.
    >>

    > Over 150,000. Of which the typical anti-virus tool protects you
    > against 50,000 to 75,000.


    But avoiding the first virus protects you from the rest.

  14. Re: Windows viruses (was: One Laptop per Child)

    In article , Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:
    >
    >
    >In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:
    >> In article <475de9e9$0$90267$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes:
    >>>
    >>> We are over 50000 for Windows I believe.
    >>>

    >> Over 150,000. Of which the typical anti-virus tool protects you
    >> against 50,000 to 75,000.

    >
    >But avoiding the first virus protects you from the rest.


    That would be the commercially available one from that Redmond outfit?

    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"

    http://tmesis.com/drat.html

  15. Re: One Laptop per Child

    What is the going rate of a 3rd world child?
    1 x OLPC laptop? 1 x Goat?
    Less maybe?


    --
    David B Turner
    Island Computers US Corp
    2700 Gregory St, Suite 180
    Savannah GA 31404

    T: 877-6364332 x201
    Intl: 001 912 447 6622
    E: dturner@islandco.com
    F: 912 201 0402
    W: http://www.islandco.com




    The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
    which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or
    privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
    of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or
    entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received
    this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all
    computers.

    "Bill Gunshannon" wrote in message
    news:5s82u9F17juq8U1@mid.individual.net...
    > In article <13ltfkgjv4vqbe@news.supernews.com>,
    > "David Turner, Island Computers" writes:
    >> I wonder how long it will be before we see stolen OLPC laptops on
    >> Ebay!?!?

    >
    > Knowing who the target market is why wold they need to be stolen? The
    > residents of most of these third world countries sell their kids do you
    > think they won't sell the free PC someone gives them?
    >
    > bill
    >
    > --
    > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    > bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    > University of Scranton |
    > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include




  16. Re: One Laptop per Child

    In article <13m0h73ppgdnb0b@news.supernews.com>,
    "David Turner, Island Computers" writes:
    > What is the going rate of a 3rd world child?
    > 1 x OLPC laptop? 1 x Goat?
    > Less maybe?


    Well, I am pretty sure when the story of the French "charitable" agency
    trying to get out of the country with a bus load of kids to be "adopted"
    in France the news said the "adopters" had payed several thousand Euros
    each for their future "children". What did Madonna pay?

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

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