DECnet on Mac OS-X ? - VMS

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Thread: DECnet on Mac OS-X ?

  1. DECnet on Mac OS-X ?

    Anyone know if it is possible to have some task/task DECnet on OS-X so
    that a unix script on a MAC could access information from a VMS node ?

  2. Re: DECnet on Mac OS-X ?

    JF Mezei wrote:
    >
    > Anyone know if it is possible to have some task/task DECnet on OS-X so
    > that a unix script on a MAC could access information from a VMS node ?


    MUST it be DECnet?

    REXEC or RSHELL should work, if the VMS machine is running an IP stack.
    Use trusted relationships (proxies) to eliminate the need for clear text
    passwords in scripts and on the wire.

    David J Dachtera
    DJE Systems

  3. Re: DECnet on Mac OS-X ?


    "JF Mezei" wrote in message
    news:9ef67$4756105c$cef8887a$21598@TEKSAVVY.COM...
    > Anyone know if it is possible to have some task/task DECnet on OS-X so
    > that a unix script on a MAC could access information from a VMS node ?


    You don't say whether you've looked at the "DECnet for Linux" project at
    http://linux-decnet.sourceforge.net/ which says "What you get is DECnet
    phase IV end-node and routing capabilities on your Linux box you can
    "set host" to an OpenVMS system, copy files to and from OpenVMS systems, run
    remote tasks and test the connections.".

    It's not an instant 100% fit but depending on how desperate you to do it
    with DECnet (rather than use something IP-based on the MAC which has a
    matching part on the VMS side, which might work "out of the box") it might
    be better than nothing.

    Good luck,
    John



  4. Re: DECnet on Mac OS-X ?

    John Wallace wrote:
    > You don't say whether you've looked at the "DECnet for Linux" project at
    > http://linux-decnet.sourceforge.net/ which says "What you get is DECnet
    > phase IV end-node and routing capabilities on your Linux box you can
    > "set host" to an OpenVMS system, copy files to and from OpenVMS systems, run
    > remote tasks and test the connections.".



    This is very preliminary for me. I'll eventually move the web server
    over to a mac instance and at that point, having it still be able to get
    some VMS tasks done would be nice. But it could be that I won't even
    bother having any MAC-VMS relationships for run-time.

    If I can't get NFS to work reliably, then the switchover will be more
    sudden/brutal as oppposed to a more phased appraoch with 2 systems
    interoperating together.

    It is quite a learning curve to learn os-x behind the scenes.
    de-learning DCL/ALL-IN-1 and learning stuff like php, unix shell scripts
    etc. And I'll need to get comfortable with some small database system to
    replace the vms indexed files.

    What is sure is that I won't bother porting what is left on VAX to
    Alpha, it will go to the MAC (or possibly Linux).

  5. Re: DECnet on Mac OS-X ?

    In article <13lcmvus6kqtv95@corp.supernews.com>, "John Wallace" writes:
    >
    > "JF Mezei" wrote in message
    > news:9ef67$4756105c$cef8887a$21598@TEKSAVVY.COM...
    >> Anyone know if it is possible to have some task/task DECnet on OS-X so
    >> that a unix script on a MAC could access information from a VMS node ?

    >
    > You don't say whether you've looked at the "DECnet for Linux" project at
    > http://linux-decnet.sourceforge.net/ which says "What you get is DECnet
    > phase IV end-node and routing capabilities on your Linux box you can
    > "set host" to an OpenVMS system, copy files to and from OpenVMS systems, run
    > remote tasks and test the connections.".


    I was told by someone from DEC (sic) that the more recent PowerPC
    Macintoshes had lost the (required by the standard) ability to set
    the Ethernet address. That is supposedly why the Thursby product
    (the basis for Pathworks for Macintosh) is no longer viable.

    Has this changed for Intel Macs ?

  6. Re: DECnet on Mac OS-X ?

    In article , Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:
    >
    >
    >In article <13lcmvus6kqtv95@corp.supernews.com>, "John Wallace" writes:
    >>
    >> "JF Mezei" wrote in message
    >> news:9ef67$4756105c$cef8887a$21598@TEKSAVVY.COM...
    >>> Anyone know if it is possible to have some task/task DECnet on OS-X so
    >>> that a unix script on a MAC could access information from a VMS node ?

    >>
    >> You don't say whether you've looked at the "DECnet for Linux" project at
    >> http://linux-decnet.sourceforge.net/ which says "What you get is DECnet
    >> phase IV end-node and routing capabilities on your Linux box you can
    >> "set host" to an OpenVMS system, copy files to and from OpenVMS systems, run
    >> remote tasks and test the connections.".

    >
    >I was told by someone from DEC (sic) that the more recent PowerPC
    >Macintoshes had lost the (required by the standard) ability to set
    >the Ethernet address. That is supposedly why the Thursby product
    >(the basis for Pathworks for Macintosh) is no longer viable.


    News to me.

    Try this:

    % sudo ifconfig en# ether aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff


    en# is the network interface. Check before you set.

    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"

    http://tmesis.com/drat.html

  7. Re: DECnet on Mac OS-X ?

    Larry Kilgallen wrote:

    > I was told by someone from DEC (sic) that the more recent PowerPC
    > Macintoshes had lost the (required by the standard) ability to set
    > the Ethernet address.


    Never heard this and all my PPC-Macs (PowerPC 604ev, G3, G4, G5) can do
    this. Which model should be affected?

    Grüße
    Götz
    --
    http://www.knubbelmac.de/

  8. Re: DECnet on Mac OS-X ?

    On Dec 5, 2:15 pm, use...@hoffart.de (Goetz Hoffart) wrote:
    > Larry Kilgallen wrote:
    > > I was told by someone from DEC (sic) that the more recent PowerPC
    > > Macintoshes had lost the (required by the standard) ability to set
    > > the Ethernet address.

    >
    > Never heard this and all my PPC-Macs (PowerPC 604ev, G3, G4, G5) can do
    > this. Which model should be affected?
    >
    > Grüße
    > Götz
    > --http://www.knubbelmac.de/


    Lots of NICs can *change* their MAC address, from one address to a
    different one.

    But for DECnet, don't they need to be able to work with *multiple* MAC
    addresses: the original one, as would be used by IP, and the new one,
    as traditionally added by DECnet Phase IV?

    They need to be able to receive on multiple addresses (which you can
    usually fake with promiscuous mode and driver fiddling if hardware
    doesn't want to play nice). Do they also need to be able to *send*
    from multiple MAC addresses without reconfiguration? If they can't
    have multiple send addresses, is that a problem for DECnet?

  9. Re: DECnet on Mac OS-X ?

    In article <1108cd92-d2e4-4bfe-a64e-07695b9954f6@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
    johnwallace4@gmail.com writes:
    > On Dec 5, 2:15 pm, use...@hoffart.de (Goetz Hoffart) wrote:
    >> Larry Kilgallen wrote:
    >> > I was told by someone from DEC (sic) that the more recent PowerPC
    >> > Macintoshes had lost the (required by the standard) ability to set
    >> > the Ethernet address.

    >>
    >> Never heard this and all my PPC-Macs (PowerPC 604ev, G3, G4, G5) can do
    >> this. Which model should be affected?
    >>
    >> Grüße
    >> Götz
    >> --http://www.knubbelmac.de/

    > Lots of NICs can *change* their MAC address, from one address to a
    > different one.
    > But for DECnet, don't they need to be able to work with *multiple* MAC
    > addresses: the original one, as would be used by IP, and the new one,
    > as traditionally added by DECnet Phase IV?
    > They need to be able to receive on multiple addresses (which you can
    > usually fake with promiscuous mode and driver fiddling if hardware
    > doesn't want to play nice). Do they also need to be able to *send*
    > from multiple MAC addresses without reconfiguration? If they can't
    > have multiple send addresses, is that a problem for DECnet?


    I can't think of any reason why they could not use the modified
    Ethernet address for the IP stack. IT really doesn't care what
    the MAC address is. You just need to set oyur DECNet MAC address
    first, I would imagine.

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  10. Re: DECnet on Mac OS-X ?

    johnwallace4@gmail.com wrote:
    > On Dec 5, 2:15 pm, use...@hoffart.de (Goetz Hoffart) wrote:
    >
    >>Larry Kilgallen wrote:
    >>
    >>>I was told by someone from DEC (sic) that the more recent PowerPC
    >>>Macintoshes had lost the (required by the standard) ability to set
    >>>the Ethernet address.

    >>
    >>Never heard this and all my PPC-Macs (PowerPC 604ev, G3, G4, G5) can do
    >>this. Which model should be affected?
    >>
    >>Grüße
    >>Götz
    >>--http://www.knubbelmac.de/

    >
    >
    > Lots of NICs can *change* their MAC address, from one address to a
    > different one.
    >
    > But for DECnet, don't they need to be able to work with *multiple* MAC
    > addresses: the original one, as would be used by IP, and the new one,
    > as traditionally added by DECnet Phase IV?
    >


    No, you start DECnet first and then TCP/IP. TCP/IP then uses the same
    MAC address as DECnet.

    > They need to be able to receive on multiple addresses (which you can
    > usually fake with promiscuous mode and driver fiddling if hardware
    > doesn't want to play nice). Do they also need to be able to *send*
    > from multiple MAC addresses without reconfiguration? If they can't
    > have multiple send addresses, is that a problem for DECnet?


    No. See above.



  11. Re: DECnet on Mac OS-X ?

    In article , Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:
    >I was told by someone from DEC (sic) that the more recent PowerPC
    >Macintoshes had lost the (required by the standard) ability to set
    >the Ethernet address. That is supposedly why the Thursby product
    >(the basis for Pathworks for Macintosh) is no longer viable.


    The problem is a licensing one. There are quite a few companies involved in the
    Pathworks for Macintosh software. In addition, through the merger from DEC to
    Compaq and then to HP the knowledge "who is/was responsible for what" somehow
    disappeared... The attempts to get the sources released to the public domain
    were unsuccessfull :-( (mainly because of Apple).

    Regards,
    Christoph Gartmann

    --
    Max-Planck-Institut fuer Phone : +49-761-5108-464 Fax: -452
    Immunbiologie
    Postfach 1169 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de
    D-79011 Freiburg, Germany
    http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html

  12. Re: DECnet on Mac OS-X ?

    In article <9ef67$4756105c$cef8887a$21598@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes:
    > Anyone know if it is possible to have some task/task DECnet on OS-X so
    > that a unix script on a MAC could access information from a VMS node ?


    Of course it's possible. At least three implementations of DECnet
    Phase IV were done for various UNIX platofmrs and one of them
    could run be ported to OS X, if it hasn't been done already.

    Or you could setup DECnet Phase V on the VMS node and look for an
    ISO/OSI stack for OS X (probably harder to find).

    You could even use IP instead of DECnet.

    But you almost certainly will have to write some application to
    get the data for you. UNIX scripting languages don't generally
    know networks. Most implementations of DECnet don't extend into
    scripting. Some scripting languages have TCP/IP hooks, and of
    course there are DECnet hooks in DCL, but I wouldn't rush out to
    find a DCL port just to do this.


  13. Re: DECnet on Mac OS-X ?

    In article <1108cd92-d2e4-4bfe-a64e-07695b9954f6@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, johnwallace4@gmail.com writes:

    > But for DECnet, don't they need to be able to work with *multiple* MAC
    > addresses: the original one, as would be used by IP, and the new one,
    > as traditionally added by DECnet Phase IV?


    TCP/IP has no problem using the MAC address set by DECnet. On some
    implementations you need to start the DECnet stack first as TCP/IP
    may not be able to deal with changing the MAC address after it
    starts.


  14. Re: DECnet on Mac OS-X ?

    In article ,
    Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:

    > In article <13lcmvus6kqtv95@corp.supernews.com>, "John Wallace"
    > writes:
    > >
    > > "JF Mezei" wrote in message
    > > news:9ef67$4756105c$cef8887a$21598@TEKSAVVY.COM...
    > >> Anyone know if it is possible to have some task/task DECnet on OS-X so
    > >> that a unix script on a MAC could access information from a VMS node ?

    > >
    > > You don't say whether you've looked at the "DECnet for Linux" project at
    > > http://linux-decnet.sourceforge.net/ which says "What you get is DECnet
    > > phase IV end-node and routing capabilities on your Linux box you can
    > > "set host" to an OpenVMS system, copy files to and from OpenVMS systems,
    > > run
    > > remote tasks and test the connections.".

    >
    > I was told by someone from DEC (sic) that the more recent PowerPC
    > Macintoshes had lost the (required by the standard) ability to set
    > the Ethernet address. That is supposedly why the Thursby product
    > (the basis for Pathworks for Macintosh) is no longer viable.
    >
    > Has this changed for Intel Macs ?


    Minor clarification about PATHWORKS for Mac and PATHWORKS for
    OpenVMS (Macintosh).

    Thursby Systems did provide the DECnet componet, and they even did
    the custom rebranding for us.

    However, the entire Macintosh PATHWORKS product set contained
    major components from Alisa Systems, Apple, and Digital, with a
    lot of integration and documentation work by Digital.

    Bob Harris

  15. Re: DECnet on Mac OS-X ?

    In article , Bob Harris writes:

    > Minor clarification about PATHWORKS for Mac and PATHWORKS for
    > OpenVMS (Macintosh).
    >
    > Thursby Systems did provide the DECnet componet, and they even did
    > the custom rebranding for us.
    >
    > However, the entire Macintosh PATHWORKS product set contained
    > major components from Alisa Systems, Apple, and Digital, with a
    > lot of integration and documentation work by Digital.


    DECnet is the only component I have ever used on the Macintosh.

  16. Re: DECnet on Mac OS-X ?

    Larry Kilgallen wrote:

    > DECnet is the only component I have ever used on the Macintosh.


    Are there any of these products available for hobbyists? I've got
    OpenVMS 7.2 on an AlphaServer 2100(a), a PWS 433, a VAXstation and
    enough Macs of all kinds and would like to connect them to the VMS
    boxes.

    I was looking for AlisaTalk for VMS (VAX-VMS, of course) but couldn't
    find it. Same for Pathworks for Macintosh. Are there any retail dealers
    selling old VMS software?

    Regards
    Götz
    --
    http://www.knubbelmac.de/

  17. Re: DECnet on Mac OS-X ?

    johnwallace4@gmail.com wrote:

    (snip)

    > Lots of NICs can *change* their MAC address, from one address to a
    > different one.


    > But for DECnet, don't they need to be able to work with *multiple* MAC
    > addresses: the original one, as would be used by IP, and the new one,
    > as traditionally added by DECnet Phase IV?


    No, IP uses the new address. A Cisco router configured for DECnet
    will have a DECnet style MAC address for IP. I don't see why it
    would be any different for a host.

    -- glen


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