HP loses another large customer - VMS

This is a discussion on HP loses another large customer - VMS ; Here is a snippet for a job at what used to be a pretty large HP customer: Prestigious Company located in Chicago's Loop is currently seeking an Assembler Developer. There is an open position for a dynamic individual who is ...

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 51

Thread: HP loses another large customer

  1. HP loses another large customer

    Here is a snippet for a job at what used to be a pretty large HP
    customer:

    Prestigious Company located in Chicago's Loop is currently seeking an
    Assembler Developer.

    There is an open position for a dynamic individual who is interested
    in joining our team. The candidate will support the application, as
    well as learning other applications supported by the team, to include
    the GDS application, PCA, Oscar, and Fidelity Sweep. The candidate
    will support TBR, which is the application that provides many areas of
    the bank with cash balance information, adjustments, daylight
    overdraft accounting, cash forecasting, and source of intra-day
    posting processes to various trust applications. TBR also produces
    many online and batch reports that are used by many partner areas of
    the bank for reconciliation, forecasting, balancing, investments,
    regulation compliance and history.

    Components of TBR have been developed on the DEC VAX and the IBM
    mainframe. The VAX platform will be sunset in the future, requiring
    the remaining components and processes for TBR to be re-engineered on
    the mainframe platform. To achieve the goal of porting the remaining
    components of the application to a new platform, the role of the
    candidate will require strong analysis and programming skills



    At some point I would expect a person with a pulse would wake up and
    smell the coffee, but I no longer believe there is anyone with a pulse
    in HP's upper management. HP-UX has been an industry joke for
    decades, yet they keep using the inkjet cartridge sales to support
    that dead horse.

  2. Re: HP loses another large customer

    yyyc186 wrote:
    > Here is a snippet for a job at what used to be a pretty large HP
    > customer:
    >
    > Prestigious Company located in Chicago's Loop is currently seeking an
    > Assembler Developer.
    >
    > There is an open position for a dynamic individual who is interested
    > in joining our team. The candidate will support the application, as
    > well as learning other applications supported by the team, to include
    > the GDS application, PCA, Oscar, and Fidelity Sweep. The candidate
    > will support TBR, which is the application that provides many areas of
    > the bank with cash balance information, adjustments, daylight
    > overdraft accounting, cash forecasting, and source of intra-day
    > posting processes to various trust applications. TBR also produces
    > many online and batch reports that are used by many partner areas of
    > the bank for reconciliation, forecasting, balancing, investments,
    > regulation compliance and history.
    >
    > Components of TBR have been developed on the DEC VAX and the IBM
    > mainframe. The VAX platform will be sunset in the future, requiring
    > the remaining components and processes for TBR to be re-engineered on
    > the mainframe platform. To achieve the goal of porting the remaining
    > components of the application to a new platform, the role of the
    > candidate will require strong analysis and programming skills
    >
    >
    >
    > At some point I would expect a person with a pulse would wake up and
    > smell the coffee, but I no longer believe there is anyone with a pulse
    > in HP's upper management. HP-UX has been an industry joke for
    > decades, yet they keep using the inkjet cartridge sales to support
    > that dead horse.


    It's not the same without Bill and Dave! It hasn't been for many
    years!! I think it died when the bean counters and marketing (change
    the name of the product!) types replaced the engineers!


  3. Re: HP loses another large customer

    On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:37:35 -0800, Richard B. Gilbert
    wrote:

    > yyyc186 wrote:
    >> Here is a snippet for a job at what used to be a pretty large HP
    >> customer:
    >> Prestigious Company located in Chicago's Loop is currently seeking an
    >> Assembler Developer.
    >> There is an open position for a dynamic individual who is interested
    >> in joining our team. The candidate will support the application, as
    >> well as learning other applications supported by the team, to include
    >> the GDS application, PCA, Oscar, and Fidelity Sweep. The candidate
    >> will support TBR, which is the application that provides many areas of
    >> the bank with cash balance information, adjustments, daylight
    >> overdraft accounting, cash forecasting, and source of intra-day
    >> posting processes to various trust applications. TBR also produces
    >> many online and batch reports that are used by many partner areas of
    >> the bank for reconciliation, forecasting, balancing, investments,
    >> regulation compliance and history.
    >> Components of TBR have been developed on the DEC VAX and the IBM
    >> mainframe. The VAX platform will be sunset in the future, requiring
    >> the remaining components and processes for TBR to be re-engineered on
    >> the mainframe platform. To achieve the goal of porting the remaining
    >> components of the application to a new platform, the role of the
    >> candidate will require strong analysis and programming skills
    >> At some point I would expect a person with a pulse would wake up and
    >> smell the coffee, but I no longer believe there is anyone with a pulse
    >> in HP's upper management. HP-UX has been an industry joke for
    >> decades, yet they keep using the inkjet cartridge sales to support
    >> that dead horse.

    >
    > It's not the same without Bill and Dave! It hasn't been for many
    > years!! I think it died when the bean counters and marketing (change
    > the name of the product!) types replaced the engineers!
    >


    We too will lose a major European Auto Manuf for lack of PL/I on Itanium.
    They are smart enough to know the AIX is a better solution than translating
    to some (semantically) inferior language. And HP thought they were going
    to generate service revenues by providing consultants to translate to C++.
    AFAIK, not a single account has done so. Duh.

    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  4. Re: HP loses another large customer

    Hi Tom,

    > to generate service revenues by providing consultants to translate to C++.
    > AFAIK, not a single account has done so. Duh.


    Are HP/VMS sending out more signals that they're abandoning Java?

    Is C++ what everyone will be wearing this summer?

    Cheers Richard Maher

    PS. If it helps soften then blow any, it might be PL/I today but it looks
    like it'll be all "legacy" 3GL customers tomorrow :-(

    "Tom Linden" wrote in message
    newsp.t117y9hnhv4qyg@murphus...
    > On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:37:35 -0800, Richard B. Gilbert
    > wrote:
    >
    > > yyyc186 wrote:
    > >> Here is a snippet for a job at what used to be a pretty large HP
    > >> customer:
    > >> Prestigious Company located in Chicago's Loop is currently seeking an
    > >> Assembler Developer.
    > >> There is an open position for a dynamic individual who is interested
    > >> in joining our team. The candidate will support the application, as
    > >> well as learning other applications supported by the team, to include
    > >> the GDS application, PCA, Oscar, and Fidelity Sweep. The candidate
    > >> will support TBR, which is the application that provides many areas of
    > >> the bank with cash balance information, adjustments, daylight
    > >> overdraft accounting, cash forecasting, and source of intra-day
    > >> posting processes to various trust applications. TBR also produces
    > >> many online and batch reports that are used by many partner areas of
    > >> the bank for reconciliation, forecasting, balancing, investments,
    > >> regulation compliance and history.
    > >> Components of TBR have been developed on the DEC VAX and the IBM
    > >> mainframe. The VAX platform will be sunset in the future, requiring
    > >> the remaining components and processes for TBR to be re-engineered on
    > >> the mainframe platform. To achieve the goal of porting the remaining
    > >> components of the application to a new platform, the role of the
    > >> candidate will require strong analysis and programming skills
    > >> At some point I would expect a person with a pulse would wake up and
    > >> smell the coffee, but I no longer believe there is anyone with a pulse
    > >> in HP's upper management. HP-UX has been an industry joke for
    > >> decades, yet they keep using the inkjet cartridge sales to support
    > >> that dead horse.

    > >
    > > It's not the same without Bill and Dave! It hasn't been for many
    > > years!! I think it died when the bean counters and marketing (change
    > > the name of the product!) types replaced the engineers!
    > >

    >
    > We too will lose a major European Auto Manuf for lack of PL/I on Itanium.
    > They are smart enough to know the AIX is a better solution than

    translating
    > to some (semantically) inferior language. And HP thought they were going
    > to generate service revenues by providing consultants to translate to C++.
    > AFAIK, not a single account has done so. Duh.
    >
    > --
    > PL/I for OpenVMS
    > www.kednos.com




  5. Re: HP loses another large customer

    Tom Linden wrote:
    >
    > On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:37:35 -0800, Richard B. Gilbert
    > wrote:
    >
    > > yyyc186 wrote:
    > >> Here is a snippet for a job at what used to be a pretty large HP
    > >> customer:
    > >> Prestigious Company located in Chicago's Loop is currently seeking an
    > >> Assembler Developer.
    > >> There is an open position for a dynamic individual who is interested
    > >> in joining our team. The candidate will support the application, as
    > >> well as learning other applications supported by the team, to include
    > >> the GDS application, PCA, Oscar, and Fidelity Sweep. The candidate
    > >> will support TBR, which is the application that provides many areas of
    > >> the bank with cash balance information, adjustments, daylight
    > >> overdraft accounting, cash forecasting, and source of intra-day
    > >> posting processes to various trust applications. TBR also produces
    > >> many online and batch reports that are used by many partner areas of
    > >> the bank for reconciliation, forecasting, balancing, investments,
    > >> regulation compliance and history.
    > >> Components of TBR have been developed on the DEC VAX and the IBM
    > >> mainframe. The VAX platform will be sunset in the future, requiring
    > >> the remaining components and processes for TBR to be re-engineered on
    > >> the mainframe platform. To achieve the goal of porting the remaining
    > >> components of the application to a new platform, the role of the
    > >> candidate will require strong analysis and programming skills
    > >> At some point I would expect a person with a pulse would wake up and
    > >> smell the coffee, but I no longer believe there is anyone with a pulse
    > >> in HP's upper management. HP-UX has been an industry joke for
    > >> decades, yet they keep using the inkjet cartridge sales to support
    > >> that dead horse.

    > >
    > > It's not the same without Bill and Dave! It hasn't been for many
    > > years!! I think it died when the bean counters and marketing (change
    > > the name of the product!) types replaced the engineers!
    > >

    >
    > We too will lose a major European Auto Manuf for lack of PL/I on Itanium.
    > They are smart enough to know the AIX is a better solution than translating
    > to some (semantically) inferior language.


    When I was working for Mark Levy during 2000, he had one shop that was doing
    their DIBOL development on VAX and VESTing the images to Alpha.

    I suppose one could retain PL/I on Alpha and AEST the images to Itanic.

    > And HP thought they were going
    > to generate service revenues by providing consultants to translate to C++.
    > AFAIK, not a single account has done so. Duh.


    Is C++ REALLY considered a "language"?? :-)

    --
    David J Dachtera
    dba DJE Systems
    http://www.djesys.com/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/

    Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/

    Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/

  6. RE: HP loses another large customer


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Richard Maher [mailto:maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com]
    Sent: November 19, 2007 6:29 PM
    To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
    Subject: Re: HP loses another large customer

    Hi Tom,

    > to generate service revenues by providing consultants to translate to C++..
    > AFAIK, not a single account has done so. Duh.


    Are HP/VMS sending out more signals that they're abandoning Java?

    Is C++ what everyone will be wearing this summer?

    Cheers Richard Maher

    PS. If it helps soften then blow any, it might be PL/I today but it looks like it'll be all "legacy" 3GL customers tomorrow :-(

    [snip]

    Well, imho, with the massive move towards much more centralized, much
    more secure and highly available solutions at much lower costs (read
    staffing and admin per OS instances which make up 60-70% of the typical
    IT budget), I suspect the "new" dinosaurs emerging are those that think
    distributed systems and the one business application per OS instance
    culture associated with some platforms is the way of the future.

    Interesting times ahead .. And fwiw, I think 3GL style programming is a
    long, long way from being retired.

    :-)

    Regards

    Kerry Main
    Senior Consultant
    HP Services Canada
    Voice: 613-592-4660
    Fax: 613-591-4477
    kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
    (remove the DOT's and AT)

    OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.

  7. Re: HP loses another large customer

    "Main, Kerry" wrote in message
    news:C72D63EB292C9E49AED23F705C61957BDEBA430780@G1 W0487.americas.hpqcorp.net...

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Richard Maher [mailto:maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com]
    Sent: November 19, 2007 6:29 PM
    To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
    Subject: Re: HP loses another large customer

    Hi Tom,

    > to generate service revenues by providing consultants to translate to C++.
    > AFAIK, not a single account has done so. Duh.


    Are HP/VMS sending out more signals that they're abandoning Java?

    Is C++ what everyone will be wearing this summer?

    Cheers Richard Maher

    PS. If it helps soften then blow any, it might be PL/I today but it looks
    like it'll be all "legacy" 3GL customers tomorrow :-(

    [snip]

    > Well, imho, with the massive move towards much more centralized, much
    > more secure and highly available solutions at much lower costs (read
    > staffing and admin per OS instances which make up 60-70% of the typical
    > IT budget), I suspect the "new" dinosaurs emerging are those that think
    > distributed systems and the one business application per OS instance
    > culture associated with some platforms is the way of the future.


    That's why virtualization is all the rage now. Neither Linux nor Windows
    was architected to easily configure and support multiple applications on the
    server side. Virtualization allows these OS's to properly handle multiple
    apps, although it comes at the cost of system runtime overhead.

    > Interesting times ahead .. And fwiw, I think 3GL style programming is a
    > long, long way from being retired.


    3GL will always have a place. I have worked in a pure OO environment and it
    was an absolute nightmare. The future of development will use a combination
    of 3GL and later development methodologies.

    Mike Ober.

    :-)

    Regards

    Kerry Main
    Senior Consultant
    HP Services Canada
    Voice: 613-592-4660
    Fax: 613-591-4477
    kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
    (remove the DOT's and AT)

    OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.





  8. Re: HP loses another large customer

    BBC just reported HP increasing its profits by 28%, beating industry
    estimates, being the #1 PC maker bla bla bla. No mention of ink. And of
    course no mention of enterprise business.

    The loss of the remaining VMS customers won't make a blip on the radar.


    This is similar to the big cable/DSL ISPs. They constantly implement bad
    policies that turn away existing customers, but as long as they get more
    new customers than they lose, then their quarterly repports show
    positive growth and nobody dicsusses the huge problems and thousands of
    lost customers.

    If HP were having problems, then its mistreatment of VMS might get some
    media/shareholder scrutiny. But as it stands, there is no hope. We will
    see 8.4 but I doubt at this point in time we would see another release
    after that. There would only be "hardware" releases in case there are
    new IA64 boxes still being produced in a couple of years.

  9. Re: HP loses another large customer

    Main, Kerry schrieb:

    > Well, imho, with the massive move towards much more centralized,


    so you are trying to tell us "everybody" is massively
    moving to centralized VMS installations these days ?
    I think it is plain to see that the opposite is true.

    > much
    > more secure and highly available solutions at much lower costs (read
    > staffing and admin per OS instances which make up 60-70% of the typical
    > IT budget), I suspect the "new" dinosaurs emerging are those that think
    > distributed systems and the one business application per OS instance
    > culture associated with some platforms is the way of the future.
    >


    What a silly reply.
    The OPs complain about losing business because
    HP has nothing to offer in VMS / PL/I space and you come
    up with the same old drivel about centralization which
    nobody here is interested in, unless it occurs on VMS.
    If you speak on behalf of HP, it's pathetic.


  10. Re: HP loses another large customer

    JF Mezei schrieb:
    > BBC just reported HP increasing its profits by 28%, beating industry
    > estimates, being the #1 PC maker bla bla bla. No mention of ink. And of
    > course no mention of enterprise business.
    >
    > The loss of the remaining VMS customers won't make a blip on the radar.


    It wouldn't even make a blip if they would dump BCS altogether next week.


  11. Re: HP loses another large customer

    In article <13k4pj1fjm74j7d@corp.supernews.com>,
    "Michael D. Ober" writes:
    > "Main, Kerry" wrote in message
    > news:C72D63EB292C9E49AED23F705C61957BDEBA430780@G1 W0487.americas.hpqcorp.net...
    >
    > That's why virtualization is all the rage now. Neither Linux nor Windows
    > was architected to easily configure and support multiple applications on the
    > server side.


    What? As regards Linux, what part of multi-tasking do you not understand?

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  12. Re: HP loses another large customer

    In article ,
    Michael Kraemer writes:
    > Main, Kerry schrieb:
    >
    >> Well, imho, with the massive move towards much more centralized,

    >
    > so you are trying to tell us "everybody" is massively
    > moving to centralized VMS installations these days ?
    > I think it is plain to see that the opposite is true.
    >
    >> much
    >> more secure and highly available solutions at much lower costs (read
    >> staffing and admin per OS instances which make up 60-70% of the typical
    >> IT budget), I suspect the "new" dinosaurs emerging are those that think
    >> distributed systems and the one business application per OS instance
    >> culture associated with some platforms is the way of the future.
    >>

    >
    > What a silly reply.
    > The OPs complain about losing business because
    > HP has nothing to offer in VMS / PL/I space and you come
    > up with the same old drivel about centralization which
    > nobody here is interested in, unless it occurs on VMS.
    > If you speak on behalf of HP, it's pathetic.


    I often hace to ask myself, after reading some of Kerry's drivel, if he
    is the ultimate corporate shill or could he really have his head so far
    in the sand that he truly believes what he writes.

    bill


    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  13. Re: HP loses another large customer

    On Nov 20, 7:29 am, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
    > In article <13k4pj1fjm74...@corp.supernews.com>,
    > "Michael D. Ober" writes:
    >
    > > "Main, Kerry" wrote in message
    > >news:C72D63EB292C9E49AED23F705C61957BDEBA430780@G1 W0487.americas.hpqcorp.net...

    >
    > > That's why virtualization is all the rage now. Neither Linux nor Windows
    > > was architected to easily configure and support multiple applications on the
    > > server side.

    >
    > What? As regards Linux, what part of multi-tasking do you not understand?
    >
    > bill
    >
    > --
    > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    > b...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    > University of Scranton |
    > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include


    Threads are what you get when you didn't get a real OS to start with.

  14. Re: HP loses another large customer

    On Nov 19, 11:49 pm, JF Mezei wrote:
    > BBC just reported HP increasing its profits by 28%, beating industry
    > estimates, being the #1 PC maker bla bla bla. No mention of ink. And of
    > course no mention of enterprise business.
    >
    > The loss of the remaining VMS customers won't make a blip on the radar.


    >
    > If HP were having problems, then its mistreatment of VMS might get some
    > media/shareholder scrutiny. But as it stands, there is no hope. We will
    > see 8.4 but I doubt at this point in time we would see another release
    > after that. There would only be "hardware" releases in case there are
    > new IA64 boxes still being produced in a couple of years.


    We all have learned from Enron just how creative accounting can be.
    Anyone watching the ads from Dell and Gateway seeing sub $800 PC's can
    tell this is a low margin business. The same CPU's used in those low
    end PC's are being put in blades sold for a much higher price where
    they suffer a quicker death from heat and constant operation. This
    will continue until the Gartner Group is paid to market something else
    to the industry.

    What HP hasn't realized is that nearly every customer leaving VMS is
    leaving HP completely, not even buying their PC's for desktops or
    notebooks or printers. Some are moving to AIX, others are moving to
    Ubuntu. By the time HP realizes it, their stock will be trading below
    $12.00/share.

  15. Re: HP loses another large customer

    On Nov 20, 1:00 am, Michael Kraemer wrote:
    > Main, Kerry schrieb:
    >
    > > Well, imho, with the massive move towards much more centralized,

    >
    > so you are trying to tell us "everybody" is massively
    > moving to centralized VMS installations these days ?
    > I think it is plain to see that the opposite is true.
    >
    > > much
    > > more secure and highly available solutions at much lower costs (read
    > > staffing and admin per OS instances which make up 60-70% of the typical
    > > IT budget), I suspect the "new" dinosaurs emerging are those that think
    > > distributed systems and the one business application per OS instance
    > > culture associated with some platforms is the way of the future.

    >
    > What a silly reply.
    > The OPs complain about losing business because
    > HP has nothing to offer in VMS / PL/I space and you come
    > up with the same old drivel about centralization which
    > nobody here is interested in, unless it occurs on VMS.
    > If you speak on behalf of HP, it's pathetic.


    He just doesn't word it correctly. He isn't completely wrong. Server
    consolidation is an attempt to mash 8 or more application instances on
    a single $800 PC now sold as a $5000 blade. While many companies are
    siting the reduction in power costs, the real reason behind it is that
    they need 3 people per $800 PC just to keep it running, and it still
    needs a 2 hour window each night to apply virus and OS patches,
    sometimes in the middle of the day even. (Of course HP-UX has the
    industry rep of Hourly Patches, but we won't go there.) No version of
    Unix or Windows does multi-tasking correctly, so they resort to the
    same pathetic architecture they've always used...task switching and
    threads. Each virtual instance is a task that gets switched between
    or a thread which gets switched between, depending upon what cheap OS
    is running on the $5000 $800 PC.

    Oh well, I look forward to the day in the not too distant future where
    HP's stock is trading below $12.00/share.

  16. Re: HP loses another large customer

    In article <2036a76c-a695-4b63-9fb7-d3a87194d7b9@d50g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
    yyyc186 writes:

    >
    > What HP hasn't realized is that nearly every customer leaving VMS is
    > leaving HP completely, not even buying their PC's for desktops or
    > notebooks or printers. Some are moving to AIX, others are moving to
    > Ubuntu. By the time HP realizes it, their stock will be trading below
    > $12.00/share.


    Looking at HPs recent results one gets the impression they
    couldn't care less about customers dropping BCSs products first
    and HP altogether later. Their commodity sections are in good shape
    and the few disgruntled VMS or HP-UX customers wouldn't change that.

  17. RE: HP loses another large customer


    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Michael Kraemer [mailto:M.Kraemer@gsi.de]
    > Sent: November 20, 2007 2:01 AM
    > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
    > Subject: Re: HP loses another large customer
    >
    > Main, Kerry schrieb:
    >
    > > Well, imho, with the massive move towards much more centralized,

    >
    > so you are trying to tell us "everybody" is massively moving
    > to centralized VMS installations these days ?
    > I think it is plain to see that the opposite is true.
    >


    Nope. Did not say anything about OpenVMS.

    > > much
    > > more secure and highly available solutions at much lower

    > costs (read
    > > staffing and admin per OS instances which make up 60-70% of the
    > > typical IT budget), I suspect the "new" dinosaurs emerging

    > are those
    > > that think distributed systems and the one business

    > application per OS
    > > instance culture associated with some platforms is the way

    > of the future.
    > >

    >
    > What a silly reply.
    > The OPs complain about losing business because HP has nothing
    > to offer in VMS / PL/I space and you come up with the same
    > old drivel about centralization which nobody here is
    > interested in, unless it occurs on VMS.
    > If you speak on behalf of HP, it's pathetic.
    >


    Since when did anyone here from HP ever say they were speaking on
    behalf of HP?

    In case you have forgotten, this is a newsgroup.

    Regards

    Kerry Main
    Senior Consultant
    HP Services Canada
    Voice: 613-592-4660
    Fax: 613-591-4477
    kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
    (remove the DOT's and AT)

    OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.





  18. RE: HP loses another large customer


    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:billg999@cs.uofs.edu]
    > Sent: November 20, 2007 8:31 AM
    > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
    > Subject: Re: HP loses another large customer
    >
    > In article ,
    > Michael Kraemer writes:
    > > Main, Kerry schrieb:
    > >
    > >> Well, imho, with the massive move towards much more centralized,

    > >
    > > so you are trying to tell us "everybody" is massively moving to
    > > centralized VMS installations these days ?
    > > I think it is plain to see that the opposite is true.
    > >
    > >> much
    > >> more secure and highly available solutions at much lower

    > costs (read
    > >> staffing and admin per OS instances which make up 60-70% of the
    > >> typical IT budget), I suspect the "new" dinosaurs emerging

    > are those
    > >> that think distributed systems and the one business

    > application per
    > >> OS instance culture associated with some platforms is the

    > way of the future.
    > >>

    > >
    > > What a silly reply.
    > > The OPs complain about losing business because HP has

    > nothing to offer
    > > in VMS / PL/I space and you come up with the same old drivel about
    > > centralization which nobody here is interested in, unless

    > it occurs on
    > > VMS.
    > > If you speak on behalf of HP, it's pathetic.

    >
    > I often hace to ask myself, after reading some of Kerry's
    > drivel, if he is the ultimate corporate shill or could he
    > really have his head so far in the sand that he truly
    > believes what he writes.
    >
    > bill
    >
    >
    > --
    > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.
    > Three wolves
    > bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    > University of Scranton |
    > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include
    >


    So says Bill, the self appointed defender of UNIX as the cure for all
    the worlds problems, who writes another inspirational note.

    :-)

    Kerry Main
    Senior Consultant
    HP Services Canada
    Voice: 613-592-4660
    Fax: 613-591-4477
    kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
    (remove the DOT's and AT)

    OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.




  19. RE: HP loses another large customer


    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: yyyc186 [mailto:yyyc186@hughes.net]
    > Sent: November 20, 2007 11:54 AM
    > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
    > Subject: Re: HP loses another large customer
    >
    > On Nov 20, 1:00 am, Michael Kraemer wrote:
    > > Main, Kerry schrieb:
    > >
    > > > Well, imho, with the massive move towards much more centralized,

    > >
    > > so you are trying to tell us "everybody" is massively moving to
    > > centralized VMS installations these days ?
    > > I think it is plain to see that the opposite is true.
    > >
    > > > much
    > > > more secure and highly available solutions at much lower

    > costs (read
    > > > staffing and admin per OS instances which make up 60-70% of the
    > > > typical IT budget), I suspect the "new" dinosaurs

    > emerging are those
    > > > that think distributed systems and the one business

    > application per
    > > > OS instance culture associated with some platforms is the

    > way of the future.
    > >
    > > What a silly reply.
    > > The OPs complain about losing business because HP has

    > nothing to offer
    > > in VMS / PL/I space and you come up with the same old drivel about
    > > centralization which nobody here is interested in, unless

    > it occurs on
    > > VMS.
    > > If you speak on behalf of HP, it's pathetic.

    >
    > He just doesn't word it correctly. He isn't completely
    > wrong. Server consolidation is an attempt to mash 8 or more
    > application instances on a single $800 PC now sold as a $5000
    > blade. While many companies are siting the reduction in
    > power costs, the real reason behind it is that they need 3
    > people per $800 PC just to keep it running, and it still
    > needs a 2 hour window each night to apply virus and OS
    > patches, sometimes in the middle of the day even. (Of course
    > HP-UX has the industry rep of Hourly Patches, but we won't go
    > there.) No version of Unix or Windows does multi-tasking
    > correctly, so they resort to the same pathetic architecture
    > they've always used...task switching and threads. Each
    > virtual instance is a task that gets switched between or a
    > thread which gets switched between, depending upon what cheap
    > OS is running on the $5000 $800 PC.
    >
    > Oh well, I look forward to the day in the not too distant
    > future where HP's stock is trading below $12.00/share.
    >


    Its much worse than simply cramming virtual servers on a physical
    server.

    That is step 1 which does reduce some HW, space and DC cooling costs.
    Step1 does not touch the 60-70% part of the IT budget that is
    related to IT staffing (admins per OS instance)

    Step 2 kicks in when the virtualization is done and the CIO says
    "ok, now how are you going to further reduce the IT budget by 25%?"

    That is when the real pain of one bus app per OS instance culture
    kicks in.

    While there are technical challenges with multiple App sharing on
    Windows and Linux, the real challenges are cultural - not only with
    internal groups not wanting to share, but also with ISV support
    as well.


    Regards

    Kerry Main
    Senior Consultant
    HP Services Canada
    Voice: 613-592-4660
    Fax: 613-591-4477
    kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
    (remove the DOT's and AT)

    OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.


  20. Re: HP loses another large customer

    Main, Kerry wrote:

    > That is step 1 which does reduce some HW, space and DC cooling costs.



    OK on the space. But does replacing 5 units of 1U with some Blade box
    containing 5 computers really reduce cooling costs ? Wouldn't it end up
    generating pretty much the same amount of heat ?


    I can understand merging multiple applications on the same instance of
    an OS. You can really go from 5 CPUs down to 1 and then same a lot on
    cooling costs. But I am not sure that moving 5 computers into a blade
    unit with 5 computers really saves much on cooling.

    Blades probably provie better wintel management as opposed to those
    kludges called KVM switches. Not sure they provide that much space
    savings when you compere agaisn 1U computers though.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast