Syltrem wrote:
> http://www.informationweek.com/news/...leID=202801794
>

Merci for the pointer.

Better late than never. Interesting however how the article starts out
by going out of its way to paint VMS as an old operating system when
Unix is in fact older than VMS.

As to the mention of 8.3 in another article, hasn't 8.3 been out for
quite some time already ? (I realise there there is to be some mini
IA64 release to support some new IA64 contraptions, but will this also
result in an Alpha release ? )

As for 8.3 on the vax, perhaps we could use the article to force HP to
produce 8.3 for VAX , threathening to sue them or false advertising if
they don't :-) :-)( :-) :-) :-)

In article ,
JF Mezei writes:
> Syltrem wrote:
>> http://www.informationweek.com/news/...leID=202801794
>>
>
> Merci for the pointer.
>
> Better late than never. Interesting however how the article starts out
> by going out of its way to paint VMS as an old operating system when
> Unix is in fact older than VMS.

Actually, you would have to look at the age of the currently in use
version. Or you couls say that because it's actually older Unix has
had time to do more research that resulted in greater improvement to
the OS. One can spin almost anything in almost any direction.

>
> As to the mention of 8.3 in another article, hasn't 8.3 been out for
> quite some time already ? (I realise there there is to be some mini
> IA64 release to support some new IA64 contraptions, but will this also
> result in an Alpha release ? )
>
> As for 8.3 on the vax, perhaps we could use the article to force HP to
> produce 8.3 for VAX , threathening to sue them or false advertising if
> they don't :-) :-)( :-) :-) :-)

Well, I hadn't mentioned it til now, but it doesn't appear to me
that HP had anything to do with these releases. I would suspect
that they were spawned by some VMS fanatic and that HP would not
confirm or deny anything, thus the reason for the innaccuracies
which could have been corrected by a simple phone call by the
journalist, unless HP refused to talk to them.

bill

--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

Here's a consolidated list of OpenVMS 30th Anniversary Articles on the
Internet.

I would suggest that those of you who find error's in these articles
take a cue from Ian Miller and Bob Gezelter...
Click on the FEEDBACK or COMMENT button (where available) and share
your (preferably substantiated) wisdom with the masses!


Aarons OpenVMS Hobby Site: Happy birthday!
by Aaron Sakovich
http://openvms.hobby-site.com/index.php

ComputerWorld: OpenVMS Still Has Road Ahead Of It, HP Says
by Patrick Thibodeau of the IDG News Service
http://www.computerworld.com/action/...c=news_ts_head

ComputerWorld: HP tries to assure OpenVMS users that OS still has a
future
by Patrick Thibodeau of the IDG News Service
http://www.computerworld.com.au/inde...84398&rid=-219

Enterprise Open Source Magazine: Happy Birthday, OpenVMS
By: Enterprise Open Source News Desk
http://opensource.sys-con.com/read/451374.htm
http://opensource.sys-con.com/read/451374_f.htm

Fudzilla: OpenVMS has a long future, says HP
by Peter Scott
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?op...=3910&Itemid=1

InternetNews.Com: OpenVMS at 30: Still Going Strong
by Sean Michael Kerner
http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news...le.php/3707631

Investors Hub Forum: VMS turns 30 today
by Chipguy
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards...ge_id=24021733

ITJungle: (OpenVMS 30th Anniversary mentioned in an IBM article)
by Timothy Prickett Morgan
http://www.itjungle.com/tfh/tfh102907-story01.html

InformationWeek: VMS Operating System Is 30 Years Old; Customers
Believe It Can Last Forever
by Charles Bab****
"We always said we would move away from VMS when something better came
along. There isn't anything better," he says.
http://www.informationweek.com/story...leID=202801418

OSnews: OpenVMS 8.3-1H1 Released
by Thom Holwerda
http://www.osnews.com/story.php/1886...-1H1-Released/

PC World: OpenVMS Still Has a Future, HP Says
by Patrick Thibodeau of the IDG News Service
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...e_hp_says.html

SAP INFO: Reassuring Customers over Operating System
Source: EDITTECH INTERNATIONAL
http://www.sap.info/public/INT/int/i...04727339ae966d

UNIX Administratosphere: OpenVMS celebrates its 30th anniversary!
by David Douthitt
http://administratosphere.wordpress....h-anniversary/


==========

_Web Sites which have linked to original news articles on the OpenVMS
30th Anniversary_

BATTLESTAR GALLACTICA Club: OpenVMS Still Has a Future, HP Says
http://www.battlestargalacticaclub.c...ead.php?t=4378

The Cylon.Org Board:
http://www.cylon.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11251

CIO India: OpenVMS Still Has Road Ahead of it, HP Says
http://www.cio.in/news/viewArticle/ARTICLEID=4082

ComputerWorld Australia: HP tries to assure OpenVMS users that OS
still has a future
by Patrick Thibodeau of the IDG News Service
http://www.computerworld.com.au/inde...4194304;fpid;1

Congo: OpenVMS Still Has Road Ahead Of It, HP Says
http://www.congoo.com/news/2007Novem...VMS-Road-Ahead

Hardware Blog: HP tries to assure OpenVMS users that OS still has a
future
http://hostrom.com/hp-tries-to-assur...s-a-future/420

iHandheld.mobi: OpenVMS Still Has a Future, HP Says
http://www.ihandheld.mobi/wp-mobile.php?p=49536&more=1

ITeXclusive: OpenVMS ima lijepu budućnost ispred sebe
by Peter Scott (translated for Bosnia and Herzegovina)
http://www.itx.ba/index.php?option=c...=3323&Itemid=1

ITnews: VMS operating system is 30 years old; Customers believe it can
last forever
http://www.itnews.com.au/News/NewsSt...px?story=64306

Kopic's OpenVMS News
http://vmsnews.kopic.net/

MacSurfer's Headline News: HP tries to assure OpenVMS users that OS
still has a future: On software's 30th anniversary, vendor says it's
committed to the technology
http://www.macsurfer.com/?section=in...ate=2007-10-29

PC News and Hardware Reviews': HP tries to assure OpenVMS users that
OS still has a future
http://togahost.com/computers/hp-tri...a-future.shtml

Public Technology: OpenVMS at 30: Still Going Strong
http://www.publictechnology.net/tech...rder=0&thold=0

OZCrunch: HP tries to assure OpenVMS users that OS still has a future
VMS operating system is 30 years old; Customers believe it can last
forever
http://www.ozcrunch.com/2007/10/30/h...-has-a-future/

TechWeb: VMS Operating System Is 30 Years Old; Customers Believe It
Can Last Forever
http://www.techweb.com/btgcommunity/...7172&tstart=30

TechWorld: HP tries to assure OpenVMS users that OS still has a future
http://www.techworld.com/opsys/featu...amecatsamechan

websiteGear News: OpenVMS Still Has a Future, HP Says
http://news.websitegear.com/view/24725

XBOX User's Group: OpenVMS Still Has a Future, HP Says
http://www.xboxusersgroup.com/forums...d.php?t=115253


==========

I also noticed that HP's OpenVMS site in Japan is celebrating...
http://www.compaq.co.jp/products/software/oe/openvms/

A bit more nostalgia: What happened in the World during October
1977...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977#October

and still more nostalgia: DEC vs IBM
Michael Cooney (Network World)
http://www.computerworld.com.au/inde...9;fp;16;fpid;2

Oracle also had it's 30th Anniversary this year...
http://searchoracle.techtarget.com/o...261162,00.html

*** Don't forget to order your own Commemorative 30th anniversary CD
here ***
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/30th/t_gift.html

Cheers!

Keith Cayemberg

In article , JF Mezei
writes:
>
> Interesting however how the article starts out
> by going out of its way to paint VMS as an old operating system when
> Unix is in fact older than VMS.
>

A few years +- doesn't mean much in hindsight of about 30 years.
Moreover, one would like to compare the release of the first
commercial releases of VMS and Unix, respectively.
I.e. not counting the Multics still birth.

Keith Cayemberg wrote:
> Here's a consolidated list of OpenVMS 30th Anniversary Articles on the
> Internet.

Many thanks for this. Would have been nice to have seen this earlier.

Of course, many will criticise me for commenting on the articles, and I
debated whether I shoudl just drop it alltogether or not. But here it goes:

> ComputerWorld: OpenVMS Still Has Road Ahead Of It, HP Says
> ComputerWorld: HP tries to assure OpenVMS users that OS still has a
> future
> by Patrick Thibodeau of the IDG News Service

These 2 articles should be at the bottom of the list. Thibodeau has put
a lot of "still" statements in his articles and worded them to show that
HP doesn't have much credibility with its promises. (Aka, it is the
type of article that I would be expected to write).


> Enterprise Open Source Magazine: Happy Birthday, OpenVMS
> By: Enterprise Open Source News Desk
> http://opensource.sys-con.com/read/451374.htm

Perhaps it is my understanding of english, but "having been gussied up
with" reminds me of an old grand-mother that is gussied up with lots of
clothes , mascara and hair colour to hide how wrinkled up body.


>
> Fudzilla: OpenVMS has a long future, says HP
> by Peter Scott
> http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?op...=3910&Itemid=1

This is short. No real comment about it. Good exposure. However, the
statement "HP has released a statement" leaves me baffled since the
official HP press room had nothing about VMS when I last checked.


> InternetNews.Com: OpenVMS at 30: Still Going Strong
> by Sean Michael Kerner
> http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news...le.php/3707631

This one is very good. Should be at the top of the list.

One general comment though: it says that the next release of VMS is the
end of 2009. That is a bit far in my opinion unless we're talking about
V 9.0 with major changes.


> Investors Hub Forum: VMS turns 30 today
> by Chipguy
> http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards...ge_id=24021733

This is just a post by a VMS fan. It points to a text that is hidden on
the VMS web site (since there is no mention of VMS on the main HP press
release site).


> ITJungle: (OpenVMS 30th Anniversary mentioned in an IBM article)
> by Timothy Prickett Morgan
> http://www.itjungle.com/tfh/tfh102907-story01.html

This one is interesting. I foud the mention of mostly customer witten
applications interesting. Basically a message that what is left on VMS
is the old legacy code instead of new commercial applications.


> InformationWeek: VMS Operating System Is 30 Years Old; Customers
> Believe It Can Last Forever
> by Charles Bab****
> "We always said we would move away from VMS when something better came
> along. There isn't anything better," he says.
> http://www.informationweek.com/story...leID=202801418


This is a generally good tone. However,

##
The operating system "has a very loyal installed base of customers,"
McQuaid says, and they show no signs of wanting to give it up.
##

It would have been better if it ended with "and HP has no intentions of
giving it up". Right now, it says that customers want VMS, but doesn't
convey HP's attitudes towards VMS.



> PC World: OpenVMS Still Has a Future, HP Says
> by Patrick Thibodeau of the IDG News Service
> http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...e_hp_says.html

Another Thibodeau article with lots of "still" statements. While I agree
with him, it doesn't mean that it sheds a positive light on VMS.


> SAP INFO: Reassuring Customers over Operating System
> Source: EDITTECH INTERNATIONAL
> http://www.sap.info/public/INT/int/i...04727339ae966d

This short article was sourced from some other place, and we see a
"still" sentence common to a few articles:

>Hewlett-Packard Co. (HP) officials are marking the 30th anniversary of
>the OpenVMS operating system's introduction by telling users of the
>software that it still doesn't have an expiration date.


"STILL DOESN'T HAVE AN EXPIRATION DATE:" statement made by HP officials
is not too encouraging. (implies that an expiration date is expected
eventually).


> UNIX Administratosphere: OpenVMS celebrates its 30th anniversary!
> by David Douthitt
> http://administratosphere.wordpress....h-anniversary/


This seems more like a blog. It stars off great, but then starts to make
errors (Ian Miller has posted corrections about VAX still being supported).

On 11/07/07 14:54, Michael Kraemer wrote:
[snip]
> I.e. not counting the Multics still birth.

Multics was *not* stillborn. Well into the 1980s, Honeywell
released computers using it, and the last site went out of service
in CY 2000.

http://www.multicians.org/

--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

JF Mezei wrote:

>> InternetNews.Com: OpenVMS at 30: Still Going Strong
>> by Sean Michael Kerner
>> http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news...le.php/3707631
>
> This one is very good. Should be at the top of the list.
>
> One general comment though: it says that the next release of VMS is the
> end of 2009. That is a bit far in my opinion unless we're talking about
> V 9.0 with major changes.

-OpenVMS V8.4, Alpha/Integrity, late 2008 or early 2009
-OpenVMS V8.n FRS: +18-24 months Platforms: Alpha
and Integrity

So V8.n(ext) is aprox late 2010 or early 2011.

Where did you found that about V9.0 ???

(From presentations at the VMS Tech Upd.)

Jan-Erik.

In article , JF Mezei writes:
>Syltrem wrote:
>> http://www.informationweek.com/news/...leID=202801794
>>
>
>Merci for the pointer.
>
>Better late than never. Interesting however how the article starts out
>by going out of its way to paint VMS as an old operating system when
>Unix is in fact older than VMS.
>
As far as I can see it doesn't explicitly mention Unix and in an article about
the 30th anniversary it would be difficult to not mention it's age.

In general I think it is a reasonable article - I wasn't aware that the
Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory Minor planet center was using a VAX/VMS
cluster.

David Webb
Security team leader
CCSS
Middlesex University


>As to the mention of 8.3 in another article, hasn't 8.3 been out for
>quite some time already ? (I realise there there is to be some mini
>IA64 release to support some new IA64 contraptions, but will this also
>result in an Alpha release ? )
>
>As for 8.3 on the vax, perhaps we could use the article to force HP to
>produce 8.3 for VAX , threathening to sue them or false advertising if
>they don't :-) :-)( :-) :-) :-)

In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:

> In general I think it is a reasonable article - I wasn't aware that the
> Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory Minor planet center was using a
> VAX/VMS cluster.

The last I knew, that set of machines has only a few VAXen left
and the bulk of machines in the cluster are all Alpha. Certainly
in 1990 (the year cited for Gareth Williams starting) it was VAXen.
By the way, local lore around Boston is that the Smithsonian (not
necessarily the Minor Planet Center) was responsible for DEC adding
H-Floating as an option for the VAX 11/780s.

One of their people was featured in Time or Newsweek magazine a few
years back in the case of an asteroid that did not hit Earth after
all. Presumably if it _had_ hit earth, there would have been an
even bigger story (or no story at all).

I got a tour of this operation once, and for anyone who is concerned
about the reputation of VMS in the face of false predictions, data at
the Minor Planet Center comes from a worldwide set of corresponding
astronomers who submit a sighting if they find something that has not
been reported before. Certainly I can appreciate that just seeing
something once in the sky makes it hard to predict its future path.
They need to get other locations reporting the same thing at different
times before figuring out whether it is time to call Bruce Willis.

At the time of my tour, the vast body of code was written in Fortran.
Those who know me have guessed that I did _not_ suggest switching to
C or Java for greater buzzword compliance.

On 11/08/07 05:27, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:
> In article , JF Mezei writes:
>> Syltrem wrote:
>>> http://www.informationweek.com/news/...leID=202801794
>>>
>> Merci for the pointer.
>>
>> Better late than never. Interesting however how the article starts out
>> by going out of its way to paint VMS as an old operating system when
>> Unix is in fact older than VMS.
>>
> As far as I can see it doesn't explicitly mention Unix and in an article about
> the 30th anniversary it would be difficult to not mention it's age.
>
> In general I think it is a reasonable article - I wasn't aware that the
> Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory Minor planet center was using a VAX/VMS
> cluster.

The article was contradictory.

What the article's author wrote was "VAX", but at the bottom of the
article, the scientist wrote (something on the order of) "we see no
need to leave Alpha".

--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

In article ,
Kilgallen@SpamCop.net says...
> In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:
>
> > In general I think it is a reasonable article - I wasn't aware that the
> > Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory Minor planet center was using a
> > VAX/VMS cluster.
>
> The last I knew, that set of machines has only a few VAXen left
> and the bulk of machines in the cluster are all Alpha. Certainly
> in 1990 (the year cited for Gareth Williams starting) it was VAXen.
> By the way, local lore around Boston is that the Smithsonian (not
> necessarily the Minor Planet Center) was responsible for DEC adding
> H-Floating as an option for the VAX 11/780s.
>
> One of their people was featured in Time or Newsweek magazine a few
> years back in the case of an asteroid that did not hit Earth after
> all. Presumably if it _had_ hit earth, there would have been an
> even bigger story (or no story at all).

Most likely Brian Marsden, the director of the MPC...

>
> I got a tour of this operation once, and for anyone who is concerned
> about the reputation of VMS in the face of false predictions, data at
> the Minor Planet Center comes from a worldwide set of corresponding
> astronomers who submit a sighting if they find something that has not
> been reported before. Certainly I can appreciate that just seeing
> something once in the sky makes it hard to predict its future path.
> They need to get other locations reporting the same thing at different
> times before figuring out whether it is time to call Bruce Willis.
>
> At the time of my tour, the vast body of code was written in Fortran.
> Those who know me have guessed that I did _not_ suggest switching to
> C or Java for greater buzzword compliance.

I'd like to be able to claim credit for all this :-)

In about 1974, when I was an undergrad, I was sitting at one of the
Wang distributed calculators in the hallway of the observatory, with
a very thick listing while trying to debug a program, when Dr. Marsden
walked by. He asked me what I was doing, and we ended up having an
hour-long conversation about how computers could be used for so much
more than just calculating orbits. Things such as keeping databases of
all the asteroids and comets, making it easy to search, match up new
observations with existing objects, do statistical studies of orbits,
spectra, chemical properties, etc. Also, how the Arpanet could be used
to communicate observations and announcements. (They used to send
literal telegrams to observatories around the world every time they made
an announcement, several times each week. The backup system was snail-
mail postcards.) And lots of other stuff.

I've always wondered if this was all new to him, or if he was just in
Socratic teaching mode and trying to get me to think about the issues.
:-)


--
John