Re: bootstrap bare system question. - VMS

This is a discussion on Re: bootstrap bare system question. - VMS ; On Apr 6, 2004, at 10:17 PM, Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > John Hudak wrote: >> 1. Where could he get a distribution? > > Mentec ($$) or wait for one to show up on eBay.. > Absolutely right. This ...

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Thread: Re: bootstrap bare system question.

  1. Re: bootstrap bare system question.


    On Apr 6, 2004, at 10:17 PM, Douglas A. Gwyn wrote:

    > John Hudak wrote:
    >> 1. Where could he get a distribution?

    >
    > Mentec ($$) or wait for one to show up on eBay..
    >

    Absolutely right. This is what I got for a price quote on RT-11 from
    Mentec:
    1 QY013-UZ RT-11 Full License $871.00
    1 QJ013-H5R RT-11 V5.7 Distribution (TK50) $100.00
    1 QJ013-GZ RT-11 V5.7 Documentation Kit $1,500.00
    Luckily, it appears they are still working on getting a hobbyist
    license set up. I asked about it when I called.

    >> 2. Given he has two different drives, could a sysgen be done (I've
    >> always done it on two (nearly identical) drives, i.e RL01s RL02s,
    >> etc.

    >
    > An RT-11 sysgen can be done using a single RL02.
    > Or if you get an RX02 distribution you can use it to
    > sysgen onto an RL02.
    >
    >> 3. If he was loaned a distribution on say a RL02, could he make a
    >> image copy to the RD53 and then recopy it to a clean RL02? If so,
    >> how?

    >
    > I think DUP may be able to image-copy on a single
    > drive via disk swapping.
    >
    > You could write some simple program to read a device
    > and write an image into a file, then vice versa, but
    > at least for RT-11 the simplest thing is to copy the
    > files en masse, COPY/BOOT to make the result bootable,
    > boot the copy, then copy files back to a newly
    > initialized disk, COPY/BOOT that, etc.
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  2. Re: bootstrap bare system question.

    >Julian Wolfe wrote:

    > >On Apr 6, 2004, at 10:17 PM, Douglas A. Gwyn wrote:
    > >>John Hudak wrote:
    > >>2. Given he has two different drives, could a sysgen be done (I've always done it on two (nearly identical) drives, i.e >>RL01s RL02s, etc.

    > >An RT-11 sysgen can be done using a single RL02.
    > >Or if you get an RX02 distribution you can use it to
    > >sysgen onto an RL02.


    Jerome Fine replies:

    First, the following comments apply mainly to a SYSGEN
    for RT-11 distributions after V05.00 which was released
    in 1983. If you have questions which concern earlier versions
    of RT-11, then please ask again since the answers may be
    different.

    In order to do a SYSGEN under RT-11, you need to
    be able to read the source files. Depending on the
    extent of the SYSGEN (which monitor and which
    device drivers), the source files are minimum of 500
    blocks to over 2000 blocks. Thus, even aside from
    the speed of using an RX02, the minimum system
    requirements would dictate at least 2 RX02 drives
    in most cases, although it should obviously be possible
    on 1 RX02 in a pinch since it must also be possible to
    use 2 RX01 drives. Unless you are trying to prove a
    point or accept a challenge, use at least 2 RX02 drives.

    A single RL01 is quite sufficient, as is a single RL02.

    Since the first MACRO-11 assembly with KMON
    and KMOVLY is very long, I normally run under
    RT11XM and use VBGEXE in order to use as much
    memory as possible.

    > >>3. If he was loaned a distribution on say a RL02, could he make a image copy to the RD53 and then recopy it to a clean >>RL02? If so, how?

    > >I think DUP may be able to image-copy on a single
    > >drive via disk swapping.


    Your question seems to indicate that you have a single
    RL02 drive. Also that you are using real DEC PDP-11
    hardware.

    (a) I STRONGLY urge you to never rely on an RD53
    since current experience is that their present life expectancy
    is about ONE HOUR. Of all of the RD53 drives that I
    ever used, more than half have now failed. If you must
    use an RD53, then use it ONLY for scratch space and
    don't expect it to be usable the next time. RD51, RD52
    and RD54 drives are still mostly OK. But you will require
    an RQDX3 for the RD54 drive if you can find one.

    (b) While the commands:
    COPY/DEVICE DL0: DU0:
    COPY/DEVICE/FILES DL0: DU0L0.DSK
    will copy the exact image of an RL02, it is allowed to:
    INIT DU0:
    COPY DL0:/SYS DU0:
    COPY/BOOT DU0:RT11XM.SYS DU0:

    It all depends on what you want to do!

    > >You could write some simple program to read a device
    > >and write an image into a file, then vice versa, but
    > >at least for RT-11 the simplest thing is to copy the
    > >files en masse, COPY/BOOT to make the result bootable,
    > >boot the copy, then copy files back to a newly
    > >initialized disk, COPY/BOOT that, etc.


    Again it depends on what you want to do. In my case,
    when I want to copy the complete image of an RT-11
    distribution on an RL02, it is because I want to save an
    exact copy of the distribution. In that case, the command
    COPY/DEVICE/FILES is usually best since I don't waste
    the rest of the 32 MBytes of the DU device. Note that the
    reverse command:
    COPY/DEVICE/FILES DU0L0.DSK DL0:
    is also allowed to restore the exact copy of the RL02. BUT,
    with an RL02 beware of potential problems in case there are
    bad blocks on the destination RL02 - not a particular problem
    with the source RL02, but you should be aware.

    If you have any questions, please reply!

    Sincerely yours,

    Jerome Fine
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