Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax? - VMS

This is a discussion on Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax? - VMS ; Hello, I think, that the global warming is not a hoax. But the question is: what's the part of mankind and what is normal (we did have a lot of Ice Ages and times where it was very warm). Regardless ...

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Thread: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?

  1. Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?

    Hello,

    I think, that the global warming is not a hoax. But the question is: what's
    the part of mankind and what is normal (we did have a lot of Ice Ages and
    times where it was very warm). Regardless of reason, we (the mankind) should
    do, what we can do to prevent the earth.
    AFAIK God's will is, that the whole mankind becomes believer. So Christians
    should live that this will be seen. IMHO, they have to do, all what they can
    do to prevent the earth. What could it be? Don't use your car if you can.
    Buy less powerful PCs. Don't support wars, etc. Search for the best way to
    stop the global warming.

    Best regards Rudolf Wingert


  2. RE: still not convinced global warming a hoax?




    -----Original Message-----
    From: Rudolf Wingert [mailto:win@fom.fgan.de]
    Sent: Tue 10/9/2007 3:48 PM
    To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
    Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?

    Hello,

    I think, that the global warming is not a hoax. But the question is: what's
    the part of mankind and what is normal (we did have a lot of Ice Ages and
    times where it was very warm). Regardless of reason, we (the mankind) should
    do, what we can do to prevent the earth.
    AFAIK God's will is, that the whole mankind becomes believer. So Christians
    should live that this will be seen. IMHO, they have to do, all what they can
    do to prevent the earth. What could it be? Don't use your car if you can.
    Buy less powerful PCs. Don't support wars, etc. Search for the best way to
    stop the global warming.

    Best regards Rudolf Wingert


    ******

    I'll apologise up front if this comes over in a way not suited to newsgroupreaders. I am similar to Tom Linden and Kerry Main and find it difficult to control the blasted Microsoft stuff I am forced to use. The only way I can get my mail now is via Outlook Web Access and it's a bloody pain.

    Rudolf,

    I agree with your general sentiments. However, if there is a global warming problem, the biggest culprits who seem to be doing nothing are America (USA) and China. The Green party (in various countries) also seems happy to fly their politicians here, there and everywhere for them to spout off about reducing carbon emissions.

    A hobby-horse of mine is the reliance on renewable sources. Take wind power as an example, there must be enough spinning reserve of conventional power sources in order to pick up load when the wind dies. Conventional power sources cannnot be brought on line immediately so often need to be spinningthroughout the period of reliance on wind. Ecologists are also concerned about the number of birds being killed by this method of power generation.

    The most economic and "carbon-friendly" generation of electrical power is nuclear, which some countries like Australia eschew (though this might change if the Liberal party stays in power). This does currently have problems in long-term disposal. But the fission/fusion (I forget which is which - I'm a number cruncher not an engineer) technological investigations will hopefully resolve this.

    P.S. The religious world is now fast becoming Muslim, particularly those with extreme values.

    Regards, Paddy

    ************************************************** *********************
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  3. RE: still not convinced global warming a hoax?

    In article <0A7046B0A95F2B41B3712F0C5FD1CDC303BC75@ex-tg2-pr.corporate.transgrid.local>, "O'Brien Paddy" writes:
    >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
    >
    >------_=_NextPart_001_01C80A4E.7CFB117B
    >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
    >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >-----Original Message-----
    >From: Rudolf Wingert [mailto:win@fom.fgan.de]
    >Sent: Tue 10/9/2007 3:48 PM
    >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
    >Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
    >=20
    >Hello,
    >
    >I think, that the global warming is not a hoax. But the question is: what's
    >the part of mankind and what is normal (we did have a lot of Ice Ages and
    >times where it was very warm). Regardless of reason, we (the mankind) should
    >do, what we can do to prevent the earth.
    >AFAIK God's will is, that the whole mankind becomes believer. So Christians
    >should live that this will be seen. IMHO, they have to do, all what they can
    >do to prevent the earth. What could it be? Don't use your car if you can.
    >Buy less powerful PCs. Don't support wars, etc. Search for the best way to
    >stop the global warming.
    >
    >Best regards Rudolf Wingert
    >
    >
    >******
    >
    >I'll apologise up front if this comes over in a way not suited to newsgroup=
    > readers. I am similar to Tom Linden and Kerry Main and find it difficult =
    >to control the blasted Microsoft stuff I am forced to use. The only way I =
    >can get my mail now is via Outlook Web Access and it's a bloody pain.
    >
    >Rudolf,
    >
    >I agree with your general sentiments. However, if there is a global warmin=
    >g problem, the biggest culprits who seem to be doing nothing are America (U=
    >SA) and China. The Green party (in various countries) also seems happy to =
    >fly their politicians here, there and everywhere for them to spout off abou=
    >t reducing carbon emissions.
    >
    >A hobby-horse of mine is the reliance on renewable sources. Take wind powe=
    >r as an example, there must be enough spinning reserve of conventional powe=
    >r sources in order to pick up load when the wind dies. Conventional power =
    >sources cannnot be brought on line immediately so often need to be spinning=
    > throughout the period of reliance on wind. Ecologists are also concerned =
    >about the number of birds being killed by this method of power generation.
    >


    There are means being developed to store the energy generated from wind so that
    a continuous supply can be maintained. Threre are many different schemes being
    developed from flow battery storage see

    http://www.science.org.au/nova/newsc.../037ns_001.htm

    to

    compressed air storage in a sandstone aquifer

    see

    http://good****.phlap.net/2007/10/post_15962.html

    (the latter article a copy of a recent New Scientist article mentions some of
    the other storage solutions being developed).


    >The most economic and "carbon-friendly" generation of electrical power is n=
    >uclear, which some countries like Australia eschew (though this might chang=
    >e if the Liberal party stays in power). This does currently have problems =
    >in long-term disposal. But the fission/fusion (I forget which is which - I=
    >'m a number cruncher not an engineer) technological investigations will hop=
    >efully resolve this.
    >

    Fusion appears to be relatively clean but still appears to be someway off.
    Fission not only suffers from the waste problem but is not a solution that can
    be used throughout the world because of the potential for redirection of
    civilian nuclear energy programs into nuclear weapon programs.
    If you want Iran to cut it's C02 emissions then if you promote nuclear as a
    solution then you should support Iran's development of a civilian nuclear
    power program.



    David Webb
    Security team leader
    CCSS
    Middlesex University


    >P.S. The religious world is now fast becoming Muslim, particularly those w=
    >ith extreme values.
    >
    >Regards, Paddy
    >
    >************************************************** *********************
    >Please consider the environment before printing this email.
    >
    >"This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged
    >and confidential information intended only for the use of the=20
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    >the sender. You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,=20
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    > >1">
    >
    >RE: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
    >
    >
    >
    >

    >

    >

    >
    >

    -----Original Message-----

    >From: Rudolf Wingert [mailto:win@fom.fga=
    >n.de
    ]

    >Sent: Tue 10/9/2007 3:48 PM

    >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com

    >Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?

    >

    >Hello,

    >

    >I think, that the global warming is not a hoax. But the question is: what's=
    >

    >the part of mankind and what is normal (we did have a lot of Ice Ages and >R>
    >times where it was very warm). Regardless of reason, we (the mankind) shoul=
    >d

    >do, what we can do to prevent the earth.

    >AFAIK God's will is, that the whole mankind becomes believer. So Christians=
    >

    >should live that this will be seen. IMHO, they have to do, all what they ca=
    >n

    >do to prevent the earth. What could it be? Don't use your car if you can. >R>
    >Buy less powerful PCs. Don't support wars, etc. Search for the best way to<=
    >BR>
    >stop the global warming.

    >

    >Best regards Rudolf Wingert

    >

    >

    >******

    >

    >I'll apologise up front if this comes over in a way not suited to newsgroup=
    > readers.  I am similar to Tom Linden and Kerry Main and find it diffi=
    >cult to control the blasted Microsoft stuff I am forced to use.  The o=
    >nly way I can get my mail now is via Outlook Web Access and it's a bloody p=
    >ain.

    >

    >Rudolf,

    >

    >I agree with your general sentiments.  However, if there is a global w=
    >arming problem, the biggest culprits who seem to be doing nothing are Ameri=
    >ca (USA) and China.  The Green party (in various countries) also seems=
    > happy to fly their politicians here, there and everywhere for them to spou=
    >t off about reducing carbon emissions.

    >

    >A hobby-horse of mine is the reliance on renewable sources.  Take wind=
    > power as an example, there must be enough spinning reserve of conventional=
    > power sources in order to pick up load when the wind dies.  Conventio=
    >nal power sources cannnot be brought on line immediately so often need to b=
    >e spinning throughout the period of reliance on wind.  Ecologists are =
    >also concerned about the number of birds being killed by this method of pow=
    >er generation.

    >

    >The most economic and "carbon-friendly" generation of electrical =
    >power is nuclear, which some countries like Australia eschew (though this m=
    >ight change if the Liberal party stays in power).  This does currently=
    > have problems in long-term disposal.  But the fission/fusion (I forge=
    >t which is which - I'm a number cruncher not an engineer) technological inv=
    >estigations will hopefully resolve this.

    >

    >P.S.  The religious world is now fast becoming Muslim, particularly th=
    >ose with extreme values.

    >

    >Regards, Paddy

    >


    >
    >
    >

    *******=
    >************************************************** **************


    >

    Plea=
    >se consider the environment before printing this email.


    >

    =
    >


    >

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    >

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    >

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    >

    this em=
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    >

    the sen=
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    distrib=
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    >

    =
    >


    >

     <=
    >/span>


    >

    If you =
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    >

    immedia=
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  4. Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?

    On Oct 9, 7:22 am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:
    > In article <0A7046B0A95F2B41B3712F0C5FD1CDC303B...@ex-tg2-pr.corporate.transgrid.local>, "O'Brien Paddy" writes:
    >
    > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.


    >
    > >------_=_NextPart_001_01C80A4E.7CFB117B
    > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
    > >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    >
    > >-----Original Message-----
    > >From: Rudolf Wingert [mailto:w...@fom.fgan.de]
    > >Sent: Tue 10/9/2007 3:48 PM
    > >To: Info-...@Mvb.Saic.Com
    > >Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
    > >=20
    > >Hello,

    >
    > >I think, that the global warming is not a hoax. But the question is: what's
    > >the part of mankind and what is normal (we did have a lot of Ice Ages and
    > >times where it was very warm). Regardless of reason, we (the mankind) should
    > >do, what we can do to prevent the earth.
    > >AFAIK God's will is, that the whole mankind becomes believer. So Christians
    > >should live that this will be seen. IMHO, they have to do, all what they can
    > >do to prevent the earth. What could it be? Don't use your car if you can.
    > >Buy less powerful PCs. Don't support wars, etc. Search for the best way to
    > >stop the global warming.

    >
    > >Best regards Rudolf Wingert

    >
    > >******

    >
    > >I'll apologise up front if this comes over in a way not suited to newsgroup=
    > > readers. I am similar to Tom Linden and Kerry Main and find it difficult =
    > >to control the blasted Microsoft stuff I am forced to use. The only way I =
    > >can get my mail now is via Outlook Web Access and it's a bloody pain.

    >
    > >Rudolf,

    >
    > >I agree with your general sentiments. However, if there is a global warmin=
    > >g problem, the biggest culprits who seem to be doing nothing are America (U=
    > >SA) and China. The Green party (in various countries) also seems happy to =
    > >fly their politicians here, there and everywhere for them to spout off abou=
    > >t reducing carbon emissions.

    >
    > >A hobby-horse of mine is the reliance on renewable sources. Take wind powe=
    > >r as an example, there must be enough spinning reserve of conventional powe=
    > >r sources in order to pick up load when the wind dies. Conventional power =
    > >sources cannnot be brought on line immediately so often need to be spinning=
    > > throughout the period of reliance on wind. Ecologists are also concerned =
    > >about the number of birds being killed by this method of power generation.

    >
    > There are means being developed to store the energy generated from wind so that
    > a continuous supply can be maintained. Threre are many different schemes being
    > developed from flow battery storage see
    >
    > http://www.science.org.au/nova/newsc.../037ns_001.htm
    >
    > to
    >
    > compressed air storage in a sandstone aquifer
    >
    > see
    >
    > http://good****.phlap.net/2007/10/post_15962.html


    Yeah, that's a real encouraging domain name there! '-) ;-) I really
    wouldn't take anything seriously from a Web site with a URL like that.

    >
    > (the latter article a copy of a recent New Scientist article mentions some of
    > the other storage solutions being developed).
    >
    > >The most economic and "carbon-friendly" generation of electrical power is n=
    > >uclear, which some countries like Australia eschew (though this might chang=
    > >e if the Liberal party stays in power). This does currently have problems =
    > >in long-term disposal. But the fission/fusion (I forget which is which - I=
    > >'m a number cruncher not an engineer) technological investigations will hop=
    > >efully resolve this.

    >
    > Fusion appears to be relatively clean but still appears to be someway off.


    This has ALWAYS been true of fusion.

    > Fission not only suffers from the waste problem but is not a solution that can
    > be used throughout the world because of the potential for redirection of
    > civilian nuclear energy programs into nuclear weapon programs.
    > If you want Iran to cut it's C02 emissions then if you promote nuclear as a
    > solution then you should support Iran's development of a civilian nuclear
    > power program.


    I'd worry mostly about redirection into weapons. What's worse, a very
    occasional Chernobyl (assuming worst non-weapons case) or turning
    Earth into Venus (assuming Global Warming is really that bad and I'm
    not saying it's one way or another)?

    I think we just have too many people on the planet. Not that I
    recommend killing anyone, but policies shouldn't promote population
    growth. All these alternate energy sources are either lame, too
    expensive, or both.

    Reducing light pollution would help save energy AND improve the
    quality of life at night for everyone. See www.darksky.org for more
    info.

    >
    > David Webb
    > Security team leader
    > CCSS
    > Middlesex University>P.S. The religious world is now fast becoming Muslim, particularly those w=
    > >ith extreme values.


    AEF
    [...]


  5. Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?

    In article <1191930773.642802.320220@o80g2000hse.googlegroups. com>, AEF writes:
    >On Oct 9, 7:22 am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:
    >> In article <0A7046B0A95F2B41B3712F0C5FD1CDC303B...@ex-tg2-pr.corporate.transgrid.local>, "O'Brien Paddy" writes:
    >>
    >> >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

    >
    >>
    >> >------_=_NextPart_001_01C80A4E.7CFB117B
    >> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
    >> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    >>
    >> >-----Original Message-----
    >> >From: Rudolf Wingert [mailto:w...@fom.fgan.de]
    >> >Sent: Tue 10/9/2007 3:48 PM
    >> >To: Info-...@Mvb.Saic.Com
    >> >Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
    >> >=20
    >> >Hello,

    >>
    >> >I think, that the global warming is not a hoax. But the question is: what's
    >> >the part of mankind and what is normal (we did have a lot of Ice Ages and
    >> >times where it was very warm). Regardless of reason, we (the mankind) should
    >> >do, what we can do to prevent the earth.
    >> >AFAIK God's will is, that the whole mankind becomes believer. So Christians
    >> >should live that this will be seen. IMHO, they have to do, all what they can
    >> >do to prevent the earth. What could it be? Don't use your car if you can.
    >> >Buy less powerful PCs. Don't support wars, etc. Search for the best way to
    >> >stop the global warming.

    >>
    >> >Best regards Rudolf Wingert

    >>
    >> >******

    >>
    >> >I'll apologise up front if this comes over in a way not suited to newsgroup=
    >> > readers. I am similar to Tom Linden and Kerry Main and find it difficult =
    >> >to control the blasted Microsoft stuff I am forced to use. The only way I =
    >> >can get my mail now is via Outlook Web Access and it's a bloody pain.

    >>
    >> >Rudolf,

    >>
    >> >I agree with your general sentiments. However, if there is a global warmin=
    >> >g problem, the biggest culprits who seem to be doing nothing are America (U=
    >> >SA) and China. The Green party (in various countries) also seems happy to =
    >> >fly their politicians here, there and everywhere for them to spout off abou=
    >> >t reducing carbon emissions.

    >>
    >> >A hobby-horse of mine is the reliance on renewable sources. Take wind powe=
    >> >r as an example, there must be enough spinning reserve of conventional powe=
    >> >r sources in order to pick up load when the wind dies. Conventional power =
    >> >sources cannnot be brought on line immediately so often need to be spinning=
    >> > throughout the period of reliance on wind. Ecologists are also concerned =
    >> >about the number of birds being killed by this method of power generation.

    >>
    >> There are means being developed to store the energy generated from wind so that
    >> a continuous supply can be maintained. Threre are many different schemes being
    >> developed from flow battery storage see
    >>
    >> http://www.science.org.au/nova/newsc.../037ns_001.htm
    >>
    >> to
    >>
    >> compressed air storage in a sandstone aquifer
    >>
    >> see
    >>
    >> http://good****.phlap.net/2007/10/post_15962.html

    >
    >Yeah, that's a real encouraging domain name there! '-) ;-) I really
    >wouldn't take anything seriously from a Web site with a URL like that.
    >

    As I said below it is just a copy of the New Scientist article.
    Unfortunately unless you subscribe to New Scientist you cannot see the full
    article online at the New scientist site - hence it seemed better to quote a
    url (even if the name is a bit suspect) which does display a full copy.
    The article is on the New Scientist site at

    http://environment.newscientist.com/...nd-energy.html

    Similarly the flow battery article is available to subscribers on the New
    Scientist site at

    http://environment.newscientist.com/...ind-power.html



    >>
    >> (the latter article a copy of a recent New Scientist article mentions some of
    >> the other storage solutions being developed).
    >>
    >> >The most economic and "carbon-friendly" generation of electrical power is n=
    >> >uclear, which some countries like Australia eschew (though this might chang=
    >> >e if the Liberal party stays in power). This does currently have problems =
    >> >in long-term disposal. But the fission/fusion (I forget which is which - I=
    >> >'m a number cruncher not an engineer) technological investigations will hop=
    >> >efully resolve this.

    >>
    >> Fusion appears to be relatively clean but still appears to be someway off.

    >
    >This has ALWAYS been true of fusion.
    >

    Although I agree that past predictions have been rather optimistic I still
    think we are edging closer to getting fusion working. But realistically it's
    probably still something for the middle to the end of the century rather than
    something which will be able to make a contribution in the near future.

    >> Fission not only suffers from the waste problem but is not a solution that can
    >> be used throughout the world because of the potential for redirection of
    >> civilian nuclear energy programs into nuclear weapon programs.
    >> If you want Iran to cut it's C02 emissions then if you promote nuclear as a
    >> solution then you should support Iran's development of a civilian nuclear
    >> power program.

    >
    >I'd worry mostly about redirection into weapons. What's worse, a very
    >occasional Chernobyl (assuming worst non-weapons case) or turning
    >Earth into Venus (assuming Global Warming is really that bad and I'm
    >not saying it's one way or another)?
    >

    I'm pretty sure there is practically zero chance of Global warming running away
    to the extent it has on Venus. The Earth has often been warmer than the present
    interglacial. The point about global warming is that our civilisation has
    developed in present conditions with our cities being built on present
    coastlines etc. Life on earth will adapt with some species moving and some
    species going extinct but nature's natural adjustments may not be pleasant
    for Humanity and our relatively fragile civilisation.

    As to redirection into weapons. The nuclear weapons genie has been out of the
    bottle for half a century. The Nuclear Non-proliferation treaty has only
    slowed it's spread and doesn't look like it can last much longer.
    (The non-nuclear nations signing the NPT were promised help in developing
    civilian nuclear power in return for not developing nuclear weapons and the
    nuclear nations were supposed to not pass on nuclear weapons technology,
    cut back on such weapons and begin negotiating a global ban on nuclear weapons.
    The nuclear nations have instead passed on nuclear weapons technology to their
    friends eg Israel, continued to renew their nuclear weapons and failed to start
    any such negotiations. Add to that non-signatories getting away scot free with
    developing nuclear weapons and the NPT looks practically dead.
    ).


    David Webb
    Security team leader
    CCSS
    Middlesex University

    >I think we just have too many people on the planet. Not that I
    >recommend killing anyone, but policies shouldn't promote population
    >growth. All these alternate energy sources are either lame, too
    >expensive, or both.
    >





    >Reducing light pollution would help save energy AND improve the
    >quality of life at night for everyone. See www.darksky.org for more
    >info.
    >
    >>
    >> David Webb
    >> Security team leader
    >> CCSS
    >> Middlesex University>P.S. The religious world is now fast becoming Muslim, particularly those w=
    >> >ith extreme values.

    >
    >AEF
    >[...]
    >


  6. Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?

    On 10/09/07 06:22, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:
    > In article <0A7046B0A95F2B41B3712F0C5FD1CDC303BC75@ex-tg2-pr.corporate.transgrid.local>, "O'Brien Paddy" writes:
    >> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
    >>
    >> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C80A4E.7CFB117B
    >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
    >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> -----Original Message-----
    >> From: Rudolf Wingert [mailto:win@fom.fgan.de]
    >> Sent: Tue 10/9/2007 3:48 PM
    >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
    >> Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
    >> =20
    >> Hello,
    >>
    >> I think, that the global warming is not a hoax. But the question is: what's
    >> the part of mankind and what is normal (we did have a lot of Ice Ages and
    >> times where it was very warm). Regardless of reason, we (the mankind) should
    >> do, what we can do to prevent the earth.
    >> AFAIK God's will is, that the whole mankind becomes believer. So Christians
    >> should live that this will be seen. IMHO, they have to do, all what they can
    >> do to prevent the earth. What could it be? Don't use your car if you can.
    >> Buy less powerful PCs. Don't support wars, etc. Search for the best way to
    >> stop the global warming.
    >>
    >> Best regards Rudolf Wingert
    >>
    >>
    >> ******
    >>
    >> I'll apologise up front if this comes over in a way not suited to newsgroup=
    >> readers. I am similar to Tom Linden and Kerry Main and find it difficult =
    >> to control the blasted Microsoft stuff I am forced to use. The only way I =
    >> can get my mail now is via Outlook Web Access and it's a bloody pain.
    >>
    >> Rudolf,
    >>
    >> I agree with your general sentiments. However, if there is a global warmin=
    >> g problem, the biggest culprits who seem to be doing nothing are America (U=
    >> SA) and China. The Green party (in various countries) also seems happy to =
    >> fly their politicians here, there and everywhere for them to spout off abou=
    >> t reducing carbon emissions.
    >>
    >> A hobby-horse of mine is the reliance on renewable sources. Take wind powe=
    >> r as an example, there must be enough spinning reserve of conventional powe=
    >> r sources in order to pick up load when the wind dies. Conventional power =
    >> sources cannnot be brought on line immediately so often need to be spinning=
    >> throughout the period of reliance on wind. Ecologists are also concerned =
    >> about the number of birds being killed by this method of power generation.
    >>

    >
    > There are means being developed to store the energy generated from wind so that
    > a continuous supply can be maintained. Threre are many different schemes being
    > developed from flow battery storage see
    >
    > http://www.science.org.au/nova/newsc.../037ns_001.htm
    >
    > to
    >
    > compressed air storage in a sandstone aquifer


    What about having the windmills spin large flywheels? Is that
    impossible because wind doesn't have the momentum to spin heavy
    flywheels?

    Anyway, solar is the way to go. As soon as PV (or it's successor)
    gets cheap enough for individuals and small businesses to afford them.

    >>

    > Fusion appears to be relatively clean but still appears to be someway off.
    > Fission not only suffers from the waste problem but is not a solution that can
    > be used throughout the world because of the potential for redirection of
    > civilian nuclear energy programs into nuclear weapon programs.
    > If you want Iran to cut it's C02 emissions then if you promote nuclear as a
    > solution then you should support Iran's development of a civilian nuclear
    > power program.


    If Iran *really* wants a bomb, I don't see how anything short of
    armed conflict (including so-called-surgical air strikes) could
    prevent it. Any other course of action, like sanctions, will do to
    Iran what they did to Iraq: hurt "the people" and create an oil
    black market that enriched the entrenched power structure.


    Are there any fission technologies that are "un-amenable" to dual-
    use conversion? Maybe the Pebble Bed Modular Reactor?

    --
    Ron Johnson, Jr.
    Jefferson LA USA

    Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
    Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

  7. Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?

    On 10/09/07 09:05, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:
    [snip]
    >
    > As to redirection into weapons. The nuclear weapons genie has been out of the
    > bottle for half a century. The Nuclear Non-proliferation treaty has only
    > slowed it's spread and doesn't look like it can last much longer.
    > (The non-nuclear nations signing the NPT were promised help in developing
    > civilian nuclear power in return for not developing nuclear weapons and the
    > nuclear nations were supposed to not pass on nuclear weapons technology,
    > cut back on such weapons and begin negotiating a global ban on nuclear weapons.
    > The nuclear nations have instead passed on nuclear weapons technology to their
    > friends eg Israel, continued to renew their nuclear weapons and failed to start
    > any such negotiations. Add to that non-signatories getting away scot free with
    > developing nuclear weapons and the NPT looks practically dead.
    > ).


    The US (and Russia, I think) has been reducing it's "special
    weapons" stockpike for more than 15 years.

    --
    Ron Johnson, Jr.
    Jefferson LA USA

    Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
    Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

  8. Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?

    In article <2aMOi.759$la2.160@newsfe17.lga>, Ron Johnson writes:
    >On 10/09/07 06:22, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:
    >> In article <0A7046B0A95F2B41B3712F0C5FD1CDC303BC75@ex-tg2-pr.corporate.transgrid.local>, "O'Brien Paddy" writes:
    >>> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
    >>>
    >>> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C80A4E.7CFB117B
    >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
    >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> -----Original Message-----
    >>> From: Rudolf Wingert [mailto:win@fom.fgan.de]
    >>> Sent: Tue 10/9/2007 3:48 PM
    >>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
    >>> Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
    >>> =20
    >>> Hello,
    >>>
    >>> I think, that the global warming is not a hoax. But the question is: what's
    >>> the part of mankind and what is normal (we did have a lot of Ice Ages and
    >>> times where it was very warm). Regardless of reason, we (the mankind) should
    >>> do, what we can do to prevent the earth.
    >>> AFAIK God's will is, that the whole mankind becomes believer. So Christians
    >>> should live that this will be seen. IMHO, they have to do, all what they can
    >>> do to prevent the earth. What could it be? Don't use your car if you can.
    >>> Buy less powerful PCs. Don't support wars, etc. Search for the best way to
    >>> stop the global warming.
    >>>
    >>> Best regards Rudolf Wingert
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> ******
    >>>
    >>> I'll apologise up front if this comes over in a way not suited to newsgroup=
    >>> readers. I am similar to Tom Linden and Kerry Main and find it difficult =
    >>> to control the blasted Microsoft stuff I am forced to use. The only way I =
    >>> can get my mail now is via Outlook Web Access and it's a bloody pain.
    >>>
    >>> Rudolf,
    >>>
    >>> I agree with your general sentiments. However, if there is a global warmin=
    >>> g problem, the biggest culprits who seem to be doing nothing are America (U=
    >>> SA) and China. The Green party (in various countries) also seems happy to =
    >>> fly their politicians here, there and everywhere for them to spout off abou=
    >>> t reducing carbon emissions.
    >>>
    >>> A hobby-horse of mine is the reliance on renewable sources. Take wind powe=
    >>> r as an example, there must be enough spinning reserve of conventional powe=
    >>> r sources in order to pick up load when the wind dies. Conventional power =
    >>> sources cannnot be brought on line immediately so often need to be spinning=
    >>> throughout the period of reliance on wind. Ecologists are also concerned =
    >>> about the number of birds being killed by this method of power generation.
    >>>

    >>
    >> There are means being developed to store the energy generated from wind so that
    >> a continuous supply can be maintained. Threre are many different schemes being
    >> developed from flow battery storage see
    >>
    >> http://www.science.org.au/nova/newsc.../037ns_001.htm
    >>
    >> to
    >>
    >> compressed air storage in a sandstone aquifer

    >
    >What about having the windmills spin large flywheels? Is that
    >impossible because wind doesn't have the momentum to spin heavy
    >flywheels?
    >

    No it's one of the schemes being looked at - the other link

    http://good****.phlap.net/2007/10/post_15962.html

    in it's copy of the New Scientist article on compressed air storage mentions
    this at the end

    "
    FLYWHEEL ENERGY STORAGE: Using electrical motors to spin up a flywheel to as
    much as 80,000 rpm can store up to 150 kilowatt-hours as kinetic energy.
    "

    Another nice one is using the electricity to split water molecules to produce
    hydrogen which can be stored and then used to generate electricity when
    neeeded.

    >Anyway, solar is the way to go. As soon as PV (or it's successor)
    >gets cheap enough for individuals and small businesses to afford them.
    >


    As with Wind someone will need to store the energy generated to deal with
    nighttime demand or cloudy days. Individuals can sell excess capacity to the
    grid which can then store it for later use using the same mechanisms being
    developed for Wind.

    David Webb
    Security team leader
    CCSS
    Middlesex University


    >>>

    >> Fusion appears to be relatively clean but still appears to be someway off.
    >> Fission not only suffers from the waste problem but is not a solution that can
    >> be used throughout the world because of the potential for redirection of
    >> civilian nuclear energy programs into nuclear weapon programs.
    >> If you want Iran to cut it's C02 emissions then if you promote nuclear as a
    >> solution then you should support Iran's development of a civilian nuclear
    >> power program.

    >
    >If Iran *really* wants a bomb, I don't see how anything short of
    >armed conflict (including so-called-surgical air strikes) could
    >prevent it. Any other course of action, like sanctions, will do to
    >Iran what they did to Iraq: hurt "the people" and create an oil
    >black market that enriched the entrenched power structure.
    >
    >
    >Are there any fission technologies that are "un-amenable" to dual-
    >use conversion? Maybe the Pebble Bed Modular Reactor?
    >
    >--
    >Ron Johnson, Jr.
    >Jefferson LA USA
    >
    >Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
    >Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!


  9. Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?

    On Oct 9, 1:48 am, "Rudolf Wingert" wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > I think, that the global warming is not a hoax. But the question is: what's
    > the part of mankind and what is normal (we did have a lot of Ice Ages and
    > times where it was very warm). Regardless of reason, we (the mankind) should
    > do, what we can do to prevent the earth.
    > AFAIK God's will is, that the whole mankind becomes believer. So Christians
    > should live that this will be seen. IMHO, they have to do, all what they can
    > do to prevent the earth. What could it be? Don't use your car if you can.
    > Buy less powerful PCs. Don't support wars, etc. Search for the best way to
    > stop the global warming.
    >
    > Best regards Rudolf Wingert


    well, maybe we could send a spaceship full of dry ice
    into the sun?

    You cannot cool the sun ...


  10. Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?

    On 10/09/07 14:18, ultradwc@gmail.com wrote:
    > On Oct 9, 1:48 am, "Rudolf Wingert" wrote:
    >> Hello,
    >>
    >> I think, that the global warming is not a hoax. But the question is: what's
    >> the part of mankind and what is normal (we did have a lot of Ice Ages and
    >> times where it was very warm). Regardless of reason, we (the mankind) should
    >> do, what we can do to prevent the earth.
    >> AFAIK God's will is, that the whole mankind becomes believer. So Christians
    >> should live that this will be seen. IMHO, they have to do, all what they can
    >> do to prevent the earth. What could it be? Don't use your car if you can.
    >> Buy less powerful PCs. Don't support wars, etc. Search for the best way to
    >> stop the global warming.
    >>
    >> Best regards Rudolf Wingert

    >
    > well, maybe we could send a spaceship full of dry ice
    > into the sun?
    >
    > You cannot cool the sun ...


    Or have Planet Express Ship grab a huge chunk of ice from Haley's
    comet and drop it in the ocean. Instant global non-worming!

    --
    Ron Johnson, Jr.
    Jefferson LA USA

    Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
    Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

  11. Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?

    In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:
    >
    > http://good****.phlap.net/2007/10/post_15962.html
    >
    > in it's copy of the New Scientist article on compressed air storage mentions
    > this at the end
    >
    > "
    > FLYWHEEL ENERGY STORAGE: Using electrical motors to spin up a flywheel to as
    > much as 80,000 rpm can store up to 150 kilowatt-hours as kinetic energy.
    > "


    Flywheel energy storage peaked in interest back in the 70s when
    flywheels made of composites were shown able to store much greater
    energies than those made of other materials.

    But they still weren't practial compared to other methods, like
    storing energy in gasoline.

    Yes, most of the energy in gasoline was stored in the petroleum it's
    made from millions of years ago, but some is added during refining.
    Together those sources have made it and other petroleum derivatives
    a pretty difficult collection of fuels to complete against.

    Personally I prefer direct transmission of energy from a nuke to my
    home via electric lines, with no storage needed. But when I upgrade
    to a larger place I'm going to wish GE would bring back the storage
    battery based lawn tractor. My 20" Black and Decker and its cord
    aren't adaquate for anything over the 1/4 acre I've got now.



  12. Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?

    In article <1191957496.841321.199690@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.c om>, ultradwc@gmail.com writes:
    >On Oct 9, 1:48 am, "Rudolf Wingert" wrote:
    >> Hello,
    >>
    >> I think, that the global warming is not a hoax. But the question is: what's
    >> the part of mankind and what is normal (we did have a lot of Ice Ages and
    >> times where it was very warm). Regardless of reason, we (the mankind) should
    >> do, what we can do to prevent the earth.
    >> AFAIK God's will is, that the whole mankind becomes believer. So Christians
    >> should live that this will be seen. IMHO, they have to do, all what they can
    >> do to prevent the earth. What could it be? Don't use your car if you can.
    >> Buy less powerful PCs. Don't support wars, etc. Search for the best way to
    >> stop the global warming.
    >>
    >> Best regards Rudolf Wingert

    >
    >well, maybe we could send a spaceship full of dry ice
    >into the sun?
    >
    >You cannot cool the sun ...
    >

    Dry ice might actually work though you would need rather a lot of it
    A star's temperature and luminosity depend not just on it's mass but also to
    some extent on it's metal content. Stars with lower metal content tend to be
    hotter and more luminous. (In this context metal is anything other than
    hydrogen and helium).

    Build your own star at

    http://www.seed.slb.com/en/scictr/la...star/index.htm

    Unfortunately although this can be used to show the effect of decreasing the
    metal content of the Sun the maximum metal content allowed in the simulation
    is the actual content of the Sun.


    David Webb
    Security team leader
    CCSS
    Middlesex University

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