Files deleted between full and differential backup - Veritas Backup Exec

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  1. Files deleted between full and differential backup

    Does BE support restoring the complete state of the
    file system at the point of the differential backup?
    I.e. if files were renamed, deleted, or hard-linked:
    Can I restore the file system to a state that the
    deletions, renamings, and hard links are all present
    in the restored copy?

    TIA,
    Martin

  2. Re: Files deleted between full and differential backup

    Martin v. L÷wis wrote:
    > Does BE support restoring the complete state of the
    > file system at the point of the differential backup?
    > I.e. if files were renamed, deleted, or hard-linked:
    > Can I restore the file system to a state that the
    > deletions, renamings, and hard links are all present
    > in the restored copy?
    >
    > TIA,
    > Martin


    it would be a two step restore (Full, then diff), but yes, that should
    be the end result.

    Except for the deletions. As long as the file is on the full backup, it
    will still be there after the diff runs. Everything else that has
    changed should be reflected on the dif copy.

  3. Re: Files deleted between full and differential backup


    Do you mean restore to a point after the diff backup has been restored and
    the server does not have any of files that have been deleted?
    If so, then no, not yet.

    BE 10 has a new "feature" called Synthetic backups which will do what you
    want - but it is only for file systems, none of the database options work
    with it just yet.

    What it does is a baseline backup, then every day after that you do incrementals
    - then say once a week, you run the Synthetic backup - which will be your
    baseline backup plus the incrementals all onto 1 tape - it won't include
    any deleted files etc.
    Then you run your incrementals again (in other words you will be running
    forever incrementals) - the next time you run the synthetic backup, it will
    use the last synthetic plus the incrementals after that - bit confusing writing
    it here - might easier when someone draws a picture.

    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?= wrote:
    >Does BE support restoring the complete state of the
    >file system at the point of the differential backup?
    >I.e. if files were renamed, deleted, or hard-linked:
    >Can I restore the file system to a state that the
    >deletions, renamings, and hard links are all present
    >in the restored copy?
    >
    >TIA,
    >Martin



  4. Re: Files deleted between full and differential backup

    Ken Putnam schrieb:

    > it would be a two step restore (Full, then diff), but yes, that should
    > be the end result.
    >
    > Except for the deletions. As long as the file is on the full backup, it
    > will still be there after the diff runs. Everything else that has
    > changed should be reflected on the dif copy.


    It seems to me that it is not just deletions - also renames, e.g. of
    directories. If I rename a directory between full and incremental
    backup, after restoring both, the directory still has the old name.
    If I modified one file, I get two directories: the old one containing
    all unmodified files, and the new directory with just the modified
    files.

    Regards,
    Martin

  5. Re: Files deleted between full and differential backup

    Peter A schrieb:

    > BE 10 has a new "feature" called Synthetic backups which will do what you
    > want - but it is only for file systems, none of the database options work
    > with it just yet.


    That sounds interesting. Does the synthetic backup have the size of
    a full backup, or does it just contain administration data needed
    to restore the precise file system state?

    Regards,
    Martin

  6. Re: Files deleted between full and differential backup



    Synthetic full backup can only backup the normal files but the system state
    or any apppication. It is only one Full backup and remaning incrementals
    so as to have less overhead on the server.

    Thanks
    CG

    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?= wrote:
    >Peter A schrieb:
    >
    >> BE 10 has a new "feature" called Synthetic backups which will do what

    you
    >> want - but it is only for file systems, none of the database options work
    >> with it just yet.

    >
    >That sounds interesting. Does the synthetic backup have the size of
    >a full backup, or does it just contain administration data needed
    >to restore the precise file system state?
    >
    >Regards,
    >Martin



  7. Re: Files deleted between full and differential backup

    Martin v. L÷wis wrote:
    > Ken Putnam schrieb:
    >
    >> it would be a two step restore (Full, then diff), but yes, that should
    >> be the end result.
    >>
    >> Except for the deletions. As long as the file is on the full backup,
    >> it will still be there after the diff runs. Everything else that has
    >> changed should be reflected on the dif copy.

    >
    >
    > It seems to me that it is not just deletions - also renames, e.g. of
    > directories. If I rename a directory between full and incremental
    > backup, after restoring both, the directory still has the old name.
    > If I modified one file, I get two directories: the old one containing
    > all unmodified files, and the new directory with just the modified
    > files.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Martin


    Thinking a little more about it, you are right.

    If you rename something after the full has completed, you'll wind up
    with the original _AND_ the newly named file when the restore process is
    complete. Don't see any way to prevent this at all.

  8. Re: Files deleted between full and differential backup

    Peter A wrote:
    > Do you mean restore to a point after the diff backup has been restored and
    > the server does not have any of files that have been deleted?
    > If so, then no, not yet.
    >
    > BE 10 has a new "feature" called Synthetic backups which will do what you
    > want - but it is only for file systems, none of the database options work
    > with it just yet.
    >
    > What it does is a baseline backup, then every day after that you do incrementals
    > - then say once a week, you run the Synthetic backup - which will be your
    > baseline backup plus the incrementals all onto 1 tape - it won't include
    > any deleted files etc.
    > Then you run your incrementals again (in other words you will be running
    > forever incrementals) - the next time you run the synthetic backup, it will
    > use the last synthetic plus the incrementals after that - bit confusing writing
    > it here - might easier when someone draws a picture.
    >
    > =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?= wrote:
    >
    >>Does BE support restoring the complete state of the
    >>file system at the point of the differential backup?
    >>I.e. if files were renamed, deleted, or hard-linked:
    >>Can I restore the file system to a state that the
    >>deletions, renamings, and hard links are all present
    >>in the restored copy?
    >>
    >>TIA,
    >>Martin

    >
    >


    Intriguing, But sounds like it still doesn't get around the problem of
    renaming files after the full. You'll still wind up with two copies of
    the renamed file after the restore process. The original and the new name

  9. Re: Files deleted between full and differential backup


    The synthetic backup would give you the exactly the same as where the server
    was at, at the last incremental.

    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?= wrote:
    >Peter A schrieb:
    >
    >> BE 10 has a new "feature" called Synthetic backups which will do what

    you
    >> want - but it is only for file systems, none of the database options work
    >> with it just yet.

    >
    >That sounds interesting. Does the synthetic backup have the size of
    >a full backup, or does it just contain administration data needed
    >to restore the precise file system state?
    >
    >Regards,
    >Martin



  10. Re: Files deleted between full and differential backup


    Ken Putnam wrote:
    >Martin v. L÷wis wrote:
    >> Ken Putnam schrieb:
    >>
    >>> it would be a two step restore (Full, then diff), but yes, that should


    >>> be the end result.
    >>>
    >>> Except for the deletions. As long as the file is on the full backup,


    >>> it will still be there after the diff runs. Everything else that has


    >>> changed should be reflected on the dif copy.

    >>
    >>
    >> It seems to me that it is not just deletions - also renames, e.g. of
    >> directories. If I rename a directory between full and incremental
    >> backup, after restoring both, the directory still has the old name.
    >> If I modified one file, I get two directories: the old one containing
    >> all unmodified files, and the new directory with just the modified
    >> files.
    >>
    >> Regards,
    >> Martin

    >
    >Thinking a little more about it, you are right.
    >
    >If you rename something after the full has completed, you'll wind up
    >with the original _AND_ the newly named file when the restore process is


    >complete. Don't see any way to prevent this at all.


    No it does renames as well - the synthetic will give you a full backup as
    at the time of the last incremental.

  11. Re: Files deleted between full and differential backup

    Peter A wrote:
    > Ken Putnam wrote:
    >
    >>Martin v. L÷wis wrote:
    >>
    >>>Ken Putnam schrieb:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>it would be a two step restore (Full, then diff), but yes, that should

    >
    >
    >>>>be the end result.
    >>>>
    >>>>Except for the deletions. As long as the file is on the full backup,

    >
    >
    >>>>it will still be there after the diff runs. Everything else that has

    >
    >
    >>>>changed should be reflected on the dif copy.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>It seems to me that it is not just deletions - also renames, e.g. of
    >>>directories. If I rename a directory between full and incremental
    >>>backup, after restoring both, the directory still has the old name.
    >>>If I modified one file, I get two directories: the old one containing
    >>>all unmodified files, and the new directory with just the modified
    >>>files.
    >>>
    >>>Regards,
    >>>Martin

    >>
    >>Thinking a little more about it, you are right.
    >>
    >>If you rename something after the full has completed, you'll wind up
    >>with the original _AND_ the newly named file when the restore process is

    >
    >
    >>complete. Don't see any way to prevent this at all.

    >
    >
    > No it does renames as well - the synthetic will give you a full backup as
    > at the time of the last incremental.


    Kewl!!!

  12. Re: Files deleted between full and differential backup

    I agree, 'Synthetic backups' have a great sounding name, but they're already
    included in NetBackup and the documentation for that just describes them as
    a merging of full and incremental backups. The only real benefit mentioned
    is ease of restoring since you've got the one synthetic backup to restore
    instead of a full backup plus x incrementals.

    There is no mention in the documentation (that I can see) of synthetic
    backups also scanning for deleted or renamed files.

    Is this an update to Synthetic backups that's appearing in version 10? If
    so, surely this functionality could just as easily be added to regular
    incremental or differential backups?

    Can we have a confirmation of where this information is coming from and
    whether version 10 will definately scan for deleted/renamed files?

    I'd also be interested to know what effect this has on the speed of the
    backups. There's less data to transfer, but you've now got the overhead of
    checking every file. I would imagine that performance would be somewhere
    between that of a full and an incremental backup, but it's going to be
    dependent more on the speed of the server than that of the backup device.

    Ross Smith
    Network Manager
    Robinson Construction


    "Ken Putnam" wrote in message
    news:41af3f7a@ROSASTDMZ05....
    > Peter A wrote:
    > > Do you mean restore to a point after the diff backup has been restored

    and
    > > the server does not have any of files that have been deleted?
    > > If so, then no, not yet.
    > >
    > > BE 10 has a new "feature" called Synthetic backups which will do what

    you
    > > want - but it is only for file systems, none of the database options

    work
    > > with it just yet.
    > >
    > > What it does is a baseline backup, then every day after that you do

    incrementals
    > > - then say once a week, you run the Synthetic backup - which will be

    your
    > > baseline backup plus the incrementals all onto 1 tape - it won't include
    > > any deleted files etc.
    > > Then you run your incrementals again (in other words you will be running
    > > forever incrementals) - the next time you run the synthetic backup, it

    will
    > > use the last synthetic plus the incrementals after that - bit confusing

    writing
    > > it here - might easier when someone draws a picture.
    > >
    > > =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?= wrote:
    > >
    > >>Does BE support restoring the complete state of the
    > >>file system at the point of the differential backup?
    > >>I.e. if files were renamed, deleted, or hard-linked:
    > >>Can I restore the file system to a state that the
    > >>deletions, renamings, and hard links are all present
    > >>in the restored copy?
    > >>
    > >>TIA,
    > >>Martin

    > >
    > >

    >
    > Intriguing, But sounds like it still doesn't get around the problem of
    > renaming files after the full. You'll still wind up with two copies of
    > the renamed file after the restore process. The original and the new name




  13. Re: Files deleted between full and differential backup

    Ross Smith wrote:
    > I agree, 'Synthetic backups' have a great sounding name, but they're already
    > included in NetBackup and the documentation for that just describes them as
    > a merging of full and incremental backups. The only real benefit mentioned
    > is ease of restoring since you've got the one synthetic backup to restore
    > instead of a full backup plus x incrementals.
    >
    > There is no mention in the documentation (that I can see) of synthetic
    > backups also scanning for deleted or renamed files.
    >
    > Is this an update to Synthetic backups that's appearing in version 10? If
    > so, surely this functionality could just as easily be added to regular
    > incremental or differential backups?
    >
    > Can we have a confirmation of where this information is coming from and
    > whether version 10 will definately scan for deleted/renamed files?
    >
    > I'd also be interested to know what effect this has on the speed of the
    > backups. There's less data to transfer, but you've now got the overhead of
    > checking every file. I would imagine that performance would be somewhere
    > between that of a full and an incremental backup, but it's going to be
    > dependent more on the speed of the server than that of the backup device.
    >
    > Ross Smith
    > Network Manager
    > Robinson Construction
    >
    >
    > "Ken Putnam" wrote in message
    > news:41af3f7a@ROSASTDMZ05....
    >
    >>Peter A wrote:
    >>
    >>>Do you mean restore to a point after the diff backup has been restored

    >
    > and
    >
    >>>the server does not have any of files that have been deleted?
    >>>If so, then no, not yet.
    >>>
    >>>BE 10 has a new "feature" called Synthetic backups which will do what

    >
    > you
    >
    >>>want - but it is only for file systems, none of the database options

    >
    > work
    >
    >>>with it just yet.
    >>>
    >>>What it does is a baseline backup, then every day after that you do

    >
    > incrementals
    >
    >>>- then say once a week, you run the Synthetic backup - which will be

    >
    > your
    >
    >>>baseline backup plus the incrementals all onto 1 tape - it won't include
    >>>any deleted files etc.
    >>>Then you run your incrementals again (in other words you will be running
    >>>forever incrementals) - the next time you run the synthetic backup, it

    >
    > will
    >
    >>>use the last synthetic plus the incrementals after that - bit confusing

    >
    > writing
    >
    >>>it here - might easier when someone draws a picture.
    >>>
    >>>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?= wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Does BE support restoring the complete state of the
    >>>>file system at the point of the differential backup?
    >>>>I.e. if files were renamed, deleted, or hard-linked:
    >>>>Can I restore the file system to a state that the
    >>>>deletions, renamings, and hard links are all present
    >>>>in the restored copy?
    >>>>
    >>>>TIA,
    >>>>Martin
    >>>
    >>>

    >>Intriguing, But sounds like it still doesn't get around the problem of
    >>renaming files after the full. You'll still wind up with two copies of
    >>the renamed file after the restore process. The original and the new name

    >
    >
    >



    And it would probably only work with B2D sets, not Tape backups, right?
    Unless you have a multidrive library, and have all volumes of the last
    full or last synthetic mounted. Else how do you get the "old" files on
    the new media?

  14. Re: Files deleted between full and differential backup


    All your problems are cured if you use TIR backups. This will take into account
    any deletions, renames, moves, etc... your backups will run slightly longer
    (more overhead processing) but it will keep you from restoring files that
    had been deleted since the last full.

    TIR is also REQUIRED if you are hoping to use any advanced features like
    Synthetic Backups.

    Hope this helps... Paul


    Ken Putnam wrote:
    >Martin v. L÷wis wrote:
    >> Ken Putnam schrieb:
    >>
    >>> it would be a two step restore (Full, then diff), but yes, that should


    >>> be the end result.
    >>>
    >>> Except for the deletions. As long as the file is on the full backup,


    >>> it will still be there after the diff runs. Everything else that has


    >>> changed should be reflected on the dif copy.

    >>
    >>
    >> It seems to me that it is not just deletions - also renames, e.g. of
    >> directories. If I rename a directory between full and incremental
    >> backup, after restoring both, the directory still has the old name.
    >> If I modified one file, I get two directories: the old one containing
    >> all unmodified files, and the new directory with just the modified
    >> files.
    >>
    >> Regards,
    >> Martin

    >
    >Thinking a little more about it, you are right.
    >
    >If you rename something after the full has completed, you'll wind up
    >with the original _AND_ the newly named file when the restore process is


    >complete. Don't see any way to prevent this at all.



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