Stupid BENT Things You Can Learn From Me - Veritas Backup Exec

This is a discussion on Stupid BENT Things You Can Learn From Me - Veritas Backup Exec ; Welcome to today's lesson: Daily Backup Hey guess what, a Daily Backup really means Today. The book even says it. I'm not sure what I originally read then. But our backup jobs start at 12:01am. So nothing has changed or ...

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Stupid BENT Things You Can Learn From Me

  1. Stupid BENT Things You Can Learn From Me

    Welcome to today's lesson:

    Daily Backup

    Hey guess what, a Daily Backup really means Today. The book even says it.
    I'm not sure what I originally read then. But our backup jobs start at
    12:01am. So nothing has changed or been created that day. I found this out
    when I saw my Daily Backups not backing up anything. If you can learn from
    this please do. I know it's sounds like a stupid user error, and I fully
    admit it was. But it happens.

    If you are having this problem your best bet is to go to an incremental
    backup.

    Regards,

    Jason

    --
    Jason Silva (A+)
    Network Administrator
    Salesnet
    http://www.salesnet.com
    Phone: 617-350-0160 x.8972
    Fax: 617-350-8988
    Email: jsilva@salesnet.com



  2. Re: Stupid BENT Things You Can Learn From Me

    What selection methods are you using? The only method with a potential
    problem is Working Set (files accessed in last x days). Even then, my guess
    is that it used a day as 24 hours, not limiting it to the same calendar day.
    Anyway, let me describe the other daily options:

    FULL: This is the best if you have the time and space. If you can't do it
    every day, once a week is a minimum.

    DIFFERENTIAL: This is the most common daily backup. Smaller than a full,
    but larger than incremental. You need the most recent full and most recent
    diff to do a complete restore. Each backup has all the changes since the
    last full. Does this by not modifying the archive bit.

    INCREMENTAL: Used only if you are very tight on space. If you are this
    short on space, you should look into getting higher capacity backup. Each
    backup contains changes since last incremental or full. Complete restore
    requires most recent full and ALL intervening incrementals. Does this by
    clearing archive bit for next backup.

    WORKING SET: I would say uncommon. Uses modified date instead of archive
    bit. Used in special circumstances.
    --
    Charles Villa

    http://mail.tekscan.com/nomailboxes.htm
    Please keep discussions in the newsgroup.

    "Jason Silva" wrote in message
    news:3ad4bf58@hronntp01....
    > Welcome to today's lesson:
    >
    > Daily Backup
    >
    > Hey guess what, a Daily Backup really means Today. The book even says it.
    > I'm not sure what I originally read then. But our backup jobs start at
    > 12:01am. So nothing has changed or been created that day. I found this

    out
    > when I saw my Daily Backups not backing up anything. If you can learn

    from
    > this please do. I know it's sounds like a stupid user error, and I fully
    > admit it was. But it happens.
    >
    > If you are having this problem your best bet is to go to an incremental
    > backup.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Jason
    >
    > --
    > Jason Silva (A+)
    > Network Administrator
    > Salesnet
    > http://www.salesnet.com
    > Phone: 617-350-0160 x.8972
    > Fax: 617-350-8988
    > Email: jsilva@salesnet.com
    >
    >




  3. Re: Stupid BENT Things You Can Learn From Me

    We use a combination Normal and Differential backup on our system. The
    Normal is done weekly, and copies all files, resetting the archive bits
    whether or not they are set. The Differential then backs up any that have
    been changed since the last Normal. That way, we only need 2 tapes for a
    full restore. We also do a monthly Copy that we keep offsite, in case a
    catastrophe destroys our locally-stored tapes, so we have something we can
    use to restore, even if we have to redo a month's worth of data (better than
    10 years' worth).

    That's a setup we've been doing for years, and it seems to be pretty
    logical.

    "Jason Silva" wrote in message
    news:3ad4bf58@hronntp01....
    > Welcome to today's lesson:
    >
    > Daily Backup
    >
    > Hey guess what, a Daily Backup really means Today. The book even says it.
    > I'm not sure what I originally read then. But our backup jobs start at
    > 12:01am. So nothing has changed or been created that day. I found this

    out
    > when I saw my Daily Backups not backing up anything. If you can learn

    from
    > this please do. I know it's sounds like a stupid user error, and I fully
    > admit it was. But it happens.
    >
    > If you are having this problem your best bet is to go to an incremental
    > backup.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Jason
    >
    > --
    > Jason Silva (A+)
    > Network Administrator
    > Salesnet
    > http://www.salesnet.com
    > Phone: 617-350-0160 x.8972
    > Fax: 617-350-8988
    > Email: jsilva@salesnet.com
    >
    >




  4. Re: Stupid BENT Things You Can Learn From Me

    Our issue with doing a differential is that our CTO says we can NEVER
    overwrite. I'm backing up 65 Client Computers. Each DLT Tape cost anywhere
    from 65 - 80 bucks a piece.

    "Clinton Smith" wrote in message
    news:3ad5c42e$1@hronntp01....
    > We use a combination Normal and Differential backup on our system. The
    > Normal is done weekly, and copies all files, resetting the archive bits
    > whether or not they are set. The Differential then backs up any that have
    > been changed since the last Normal. That way, we only need 2 tapes for a
    > full restore. We also do a monthly Copy that we keep offsite, in case a
    > catastrophe destroys our locally-stored tapes, so we have something we can
    > use to restore, even if we have to redo a month's worth of data (better

    than
    > 10 years' worth).
    >
    > That's a setup we've been doing for years, and it seems to be pretty
    > logical.
    >
    > "Jason Silva" wrote in message
    > news:3ad4bf58@hronntp01....
    > > Welcome to today's lesson:
    > >
    > > Daily Backup
    > >
    > > Hey guess what, a Daily Backup really means Today. The book even says

    it.
    > > I'm not sure what I originally read then. But our backup jobs start at
    > > 12:01am. So nothing has changed or been created that day. I found this

    > out
    > > when I saw my Daily Backups not backing up anything. If you can learn

    > from
    > > this please do. I know it's sounds like a stupid user error, and I

    fully
    > > admit it was. But it happens.
    > >
    > > If you are having this problem your best bet is to go to an incremental
    > > backup.
    > >
    > > Regards,
    > >
    > > Jason
    > >
    > > --
    > > Jason Silva (A+)
    > > Network Administrator
    > > Salesnet
    > > http://www.salesnet.com
    > > Phone: 617-350-0160 x.8972
    > > Fax: 617-350-8988
    > > Email: jsilva@salesnet.com
    > >
    > >

    >
    >




  5. Re: Stupid BENT Things You Can Learn From Me

    NEVER overwrite.

    That's just a little bit parnoid, isn't it? or is there some legal stuff
    interfering with good IT thinking?


    Aside from that - So What?

    You will use just as many tapes with Diffs as fulls, but the backup times for
    most of the week will be significantly shorter. 'Course you'll need two tapes
    for a disaster recovery rather than one,. but nothing about differentials says
    they have to be overwritten.


    Jason Silva wrote:

    > Our issue with doing a differential is that our CTO says we can NEVER
    > overwrite. I'm backing up 65 Client Computers. Each DLT Tape cost anywhere
    > from 65 - 80 bucks a piece.
    >
    > "Clinton Smith" wrote in message
    > news:3ad5c42e$1@hronntp01....
    > > We use a combination Normal and Differential backup on our system. The
    > > Normal is done weekly, and copies all files, resetting the archive bits
    > > whether or not they are set. The Differential then backs up any that have
    > > been changed since the last Normal. That way, we only need 2 tapes for a
    > > full restore. We also do a monthly Copy that we keep offsite, in case a
    > > catastrophe destroys our locally-stored tapes, so we have something we can
    > > use to restore, even if we have to redo a month's worth of data (better

    > than
    > > 10 years' worth).
    > >
    > > That's a setup we've been doing for years, and it seems to be pretty
    > > logical.
    > >
    > > "Jason Silva" wrote in message
    > > news:3ad4bf58@hronntp01....
    > > > Welcome to today's lesson:
    > > >
    > > > Daily Backup
    > > >
    > > > Hey guess what, a Daily Backup really means Today. The book even says

    > it.
    > > > I'm not sure what I originally read then. But our backup jobs start at
    > > > 12:01am. So nothing has changed or been created that day. I found this

    > > out
    > > > when I saw my Daily Backups not backing up anything. If you can learn

    > > from
    > > > this please do. I know it's sounds like a stupid user error, and I

    > fully
    > > > admit it was. But it happens.
    > > >
    > > > If you are having this problem your best bet is to go to an incremental
    > > > backup.
    > > >
    > > > Regards,
    > > >
    > > > Jason
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > Jason Silva (A+)
    > > > Network Administrator
    > > > Salesnet
    > > > http://www.salesnet.com
    > > > Phone: 617-350-0160 x.8972
    > > > Fax: 617-350-8988
    > > > Email: jsilva@salesnet.com
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >



  6. Re: Stupid BENT Things You Can Learn From Me

    Hi Ken,

    It's legal stuff actually. If we were to ever lose that one piece of
    information that needed, it would be bad.

    My CTO is more than capable of making the right decisions in these matters,
    but the right decision in this case isn't the best on the surface.

    Jason

    "Ken Putnam" wrote in message
    news:3AD62224.A1D74E82@usa.net...
    > NEVER overwrite.
    >
    > That's just a little bit parnoid, isn't it? or is there some legal stuff
    > interfering with good IT thinking?
    >
    >
    > Aside from that - So What?
    >
    > You will use just as many tapes with Diffs as fulls, but the backup times

    for
    > most of the week will be significantly shorter. 'Course you'll need two

    tapes
    > for a disaster recovery rather than one,. but nothing about differentials

    says
    > they have to be overwritten.
    >
    >
    > Jason Silva wrote:
    >
    > > Our issue with doing a differential is that our CTO says we can NEVER
    > > overwrite. I'm backing up 65 Client Computers. Each DLT Tape cost

    anywhere
    > > from 65 - 80 bucks a piece.
    > >
    > > "Clinton Smith" wrote in message
    > > news:3ad5c42e$1@hronntp01....
    > > > We use a combination Normal and Differential backup on our system.

    The
    > > > Normal is done weekly, and copies all files, resetting the archive

    bits
    > > > whether or not they are set. The Differential then backs up any that

    have
    > > > been changed since the last Normal. That way, we only need 2 tapes

    for a
    > > > full restore. We also do a monthly Copy that we keep offsite, in case

    a
    > > > catastrophe destroys our locally-stored tapes, so we have something we

    can
    > > > use to restore, even if we have to redo a month's worth of data

    (better
    > > than
    > > > 10 years' worth).
    > > >
    > > > That's a setup we've been doing for years, and it seems to be pretty
    > > > logical.
    > > >
    > > > "Jason Silva" wrote in message
    > > > news:3ad4bf58@hronntp01....
    > > > > Welcome to today's lesson:
    > > > >
    > > > > Daily Backup
    > > > >
    > > > > Hey guess what, a Daily Backup really means Today. The book even

    says
    > > it.
    > > > > I'm not sure what I originally read then. But our backup jobs start

    at
    > > > > 12:01am. So nothing has changed or been created that day. I found

    this
    > > > out
    > > > > when I saw my Daily Backups not backing up anything. If you can

    learn
    > > > from
    > > > > this please do. I know it's sounds like a stupid user error, and I

    > > fully
    > > > > admit it was. But it happens.
    > > > >
    > > > > If you are having this problem your best bet is to go to an

    incremental
    > > > > backup.
    > > > >
    > > > > Regards,
    > > > >
    > > > > Jason
    > > > >
    > > > > --
    > > > > Jason Silva (A+)
    > > > > Network Administrator
    > > > > Salesnet
    > > > > http://www.salesnet.com
    > > > > Phone: 617-350-0160 x.8972
    > > > > Fax: 617-350-8988
    > > > > Email: jsilva@salesnet.com
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    >




  7. Re: Stupid BENT Things You Can Learn From Me

    I'm just trying to understand the reason that diffs are not acceptable.

    So what you are saying is that since diffs require two tape for a full restore,
    they are unacceptable, where fulls, requiring 1 tape for a full restore are
    acceptable. But to restore a given file from a given day, both require just one
    tape.

    and again - Nothing about differential backups says that they must be re-used.
    Just make sure that the job specifies "overwrite", that the retention on your
    data set is "perm" and that a scratch tape is mounted.


    Jason Silva wrote:

    > Hi Ken,
    >
    > It's legal stuff actually. If we were to ever lose that one piece of
    > information that needed, it would be bad.
    >
    > My CTO is more than capable of making the right decisions in these matters,
    > but the right decision in this case isn't the best on the surface.
    >
    > Jason
    >
    > "Ken Putnam" wrote in message
    > news:3AD62224.A1D74E82@usa.net...
    > > NEVER overwrite.
    > >
    > > That's just a little bit parnoid, isn't it? or is there some legal stuff
    > > interfering with good IT thinking?
    > >
    > >
    > > Aside from that - So What?
    > >
    > > You will use just as many tapes with Diffs as fulls, but the backup times

    > for
    > > most of the week will be significantly shorter. 'Course you'll need two

    > tapes
    > > for a disaster recovery rather than one,. but nothing about differentials

    > says
    > > they have to be overwritten.
    > >
    > >
    > > Jason Silva wrote:
    > >
    > > > Our issue with doing a differential is that our CTO says we can NEVER
    > > > overwrite. I'm backing up 65 Client Computers. Each DLT Tape cost

    > anywhere
    > > > from 65 - 80 bucks a piece.
    > > >
    > > > "Clinton Smith" wrote in message
    > > > news:3ad5c42e$1@hronntp01....
    > > > > We use a combination Normal and Differential backup on our system.

    > The
    > > > > Normal is done weekly, and copies all files, resetting the archive

    > bits
    > > > > whether or not they are set. The Differential then backs up any that

    > have
    > > > > been changed since the last Normal. That way, we only need 2 tapes

    > for a
    > > > > full restore. We also do a monthly Copy that we keep offsite, in case

    > a
    > > > > catastrophe destroys our locally-stored tapes, so we have something we

    > can
    > > > > use to restore, even if we have to redo a month's worth of data

    > (better
    > > > than
    > > > > 10 years' worth).
    > > > >
    > > > > That's a setup we've been doing for years, and it seems to be pretty
    > > > > logical.
    > > > >
    > > > > "Jason Silva" wrote in message
    > > > > news:3ad4bf58@hronntp01....
    > > > > > Welcome to today's lesson:
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Daily Backup
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Hey guess what, a Daily Backup really means Today. The book even

    > says
    > > > it.
    > > > > > I'm not sure what I originally read then. But our backup jobs start

    > at
    > > > > > 12:01am. So nothing has changed or been created that day. I found

    > this
    > > > > out
    > > > > > when I saw my Daily Backups not backing up anything. If you can

    > learn
    > > > > from
    > > > > > this please do. I know it's sounds like a stupid user error, and I
    > > > fully
    > > > > > admit it was. But it happens.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > If you are having this problem your best bet is to go to an

    > incremental
    > > > > > backup.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Regards,
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Jason
    > > > > >
    > > > > > --
    > > > > > Jason Silva (A+)
    > > > > > Network Administrator
    > > > > > Salesnet
    > > > > > http://www.salesnet.com
    > > > > > Phone: 617-350-0160 x.8972
    > > > > > Fax: 617-350-8988
    > > > > > Email: jsilva@salesnet.com
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >

    > >



  8. Re: Stupid BENT Things You Can Learn From Me

    Hi Ken,

    > So what you are saying is that since diffs require two tape for a full

    restore,
    > they are unacceptable, where fulls, requiring 1 tape for a full restore

    are
    > acceptable. But to restore a given file from a given day, both require

    just one
    > tape. and again - Nothing about differential backups says that they must

    be re-used.
    > Just make sure that the job specifies "overwrite", that the retention on

    your
    > data set is "perm" and that a scratch tape is mounted.


    The issue isn't with the 2 tape issue. The problem is with space. We can
    only get about 10 days worth of backup on 6 DLT4 Tapes, so a Differential
    would severly bring that down. Does that clear it up. We have to do
    Incremental on a daily basis and one Full ever week.

    Jason



+ Reply to Thread