The Year 2038 Problem - Unix

This is a discussion on The Year 2038 Problem - Unix ; In article , CBFalconer wrote: >Mabden wrote: >> "Robert W. McAdams" wrote in message >> >> > But let's imagine that the water somehow breaks through the seal >> > created by the clay. Well, next it encounters the metal ...

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Thread: The Year 2038 Problem

  1. Re: The Year 2038 Problem

    In article <40BF053E.6B3F484A@yahoo.com>,
    CBFalconer wrote:
    >Mabden wrote:
    >> "Robert W. McAdams" wrote in message
    >>
    >> > But let's imagine that the water somehow breaks through the seal
    >> > created by the clay. Well, next it encounters the metal casing, which
    >> > is designed to be very resistant to corrosion. One of the favorite
    >> > materials for the casing is a titanium alloy. Tests conducted in a
    >> > abnormally corrosive solution kept at 450 degrees F indicate that it
    >> > would survive under those conditions for a thousand years, but in
    >> > normal groundwater at the expected repository temperature of 250
    >> > degrees F, the casings would retain their integrity for hundreds of
    >> > thousands of years.
    >> >
    >> > But what if somehow the groundwater got past all these barriers and
    >> > actually reached the waste?

    >>
    >> Let's imagine another scenario where humans tear apart the storage. I mean,
    >> we are talking about 10,000 years minimum, aren't we?
    >>
    >> I mean, have you heard the music they're playing today... ;-)

    >
    >[The above is about nuclear waste disposal]
    >
    >Now consider the recently passed Y2K problems, which largely
    >revolved around software written and used for 25 years, with
    >source and documentation forgotten. Look at people trying to find
    >20 year old software on alt.folklore.computers and comp.os.cpm.
    >Do you really think that knowledge about care and treatment of
    >nuclear dump facilities is going to last for 10,000 years? Should
    >any posted signs survive, the language in which they are written
    >probably will not.


    Or 10,000 years from now future archaeologists are excavating
    sites to find out what happened to what appeared to be a burgeoning
    population 5000 years ago - similar to how we try to figure out
    things about ancient Egypt and how the pyramids were built.

    They find the sealed concrete bunker and think "something important
    must be sealed in there". They open it up, get exposed to
    radiation, and it's like the stories you hear of the curse of the
    ancient pharohs put upon those who disturb the graves.

    Read "A Canticle For Liebowitz" to get another view of discovering
    things from the past in the future.

    Bill


    --
    Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com

  2. Re: The Year 2012 Problem

    At Monday 2004-08-09 18:35 "Bill Vermillion" posted
    to comp.unix.misc:

    This entire discussion is OFF TOPIC in each and EVERY one of the
    newsgroups to which it is crossposted. Cease and Desist.

    --
    Copyright 2004 Angela Kahealani. All rights reserved without prejudice;
    UCC1-207. All information and transactions are non negotiable and are
    private between the parties. http://www.kahealani.com/

  3. Re: The Year 2038 Problem

    bv@wjv.com (Bill Vermillion) wrote in message news:...
    > In article <40BF053E.6B3F484A@yahoo.com>,
    > CBFalconer wrote:
    > >Mabden wrote:
    > >> "Robert W. McAdams" wrote in message
    > >>
    > >> > But let's imagine that the water somehow breaks through the seal
    > >> > created by the clay. Well, next it encounters the metal casing, which
    > >> > is designed to be very resistant to corrosion. One of the favorite
    > >> > materials for the casing is a titanium alloy. Tests conducted in a
    > >> > abnormally corrosive solution kept at 450 degrees F indicate that it
    > >> > would survive under those conditions for a thousand years, but in
    > >> > normal groundwater at the expected repository temperature of 250
    > >> > degrees F, the casings would retain their integrity for hundreds of
    > >> > thousands of years.
    > >> >
    > >> > But what if somehow the groundwater got past all these barriers and
    > >> > actually reached the waste?
    > >>
    > >> Let's imagine another scenario where humans tear apart the storage. I mean,
    > >> we are talking about 10,000 years minimum, aren't we?
    > >>
    > >> I mean, have you heard the music they're playing today... ;-)

    > >
    > >[The above is about nuclear waste disposal]
    > >
    > >Now consider the recently passed Y2K problems, which largely
    > >revolved around software written and used for 25 years, with
    > >source and documentation forgotten. Look at people trying to find
    > >20 year old software on alt.folklore.computers and comp.os.cpm.
    > >Do you really think that knowledge about care and treatment of
    > >nuclear dump facilities is going to last for 10,000 years? Should
    > >any posted signs survive, the language in which they are written
    > >probably will not.

    >
    > Or 10,000 years from now future archaeologists are excavating
    > sites to find out what happened to what appeared to be a burgeoning
    > population 5000 years ago - similar to how we try to figure out
    > things about ancient Egypt and how the pyramids were built.
    >
    > They find the sealed concrete bunker and think "something important
    > must be sealed in there". They open it up, get exposed to
    > radiation, and it's like the stories you hear of the curse of the
    > ancient pharohs put upon those who disturb the graves.
    >
    > Read "A Canticle For Liebowitz" to get another view of discovering
    > things from the past in the future.
    >
    > Bill


    After doing two years of study on the effects of nuclear waste and
    management, and also coming from a town that was known all over the
    world for its mass Uranium Production from the early 1950's to the
    late 1990's, I can say with all confidence that there is no technology
    developed yet that can protect the environment, nor us from the deadly
    effects of nuclear radiation and poisoning. My Home Town - Elliot Lake
    Ontario, Canada, was formerly known as the Uranium Capital of the
    World - and we had over 2 dozen mines operational at one point or
    another - drudging up uranium Ore, refining it to its proper weight,
    then shipping it off to the US government R and D dept for development
    into your chemical weapons and nuclear bombs - and the waste is still
    on site, sitting in tailings ponds to this day. Even though the Pure
    Ore has been shipped off, studies have shown that 6/7th of the
    radioactive material still exists in the tailings, which are outside,
    sitting around the old reclaimed mine sites, waiting for someone to
    come and clean it up. Which means that the area is still very
    radioactive, and there is runoff to deal with as well. The Point is,
    if anyone tells you we have the technology to contain radioactive
    material 'SAFELY', you can laugh in their face - cuz its BS - if that
    was the case, hundreds of federal governments around the world would
    already have forked over the BILLIONS of dollars needed to develop and
    maintain the technology, and be using it to store and maintain all
    their nuclear weapons, nuclear reactors, and more importantly, the
    waste created after using the pure Uranium Ore - isotopes 235 and 238.

    I hope this has shed some light on the subject - it really opened my
    eyes when I did the study for my undergrad, and to think this was all
    happening in my backyard all these years....

    Manny

  4. Re: The Year 2038 Problem

    In article <9f8e34c6.0408111029.1b710e3b@posting.google.com>, manuel188
    @hotmail.com says...

    > After doing two years of study on the effects of nuclear waste and
    > management, and also coming from a town that was known all over the
    > world for its mass Uranium Production from the early 1950's to the
    > late 1990's, I can say with all confidence that there is no technology
    > developed yet that can protect the environment, nor us from the deadly
    > effects of nuclear radiation and poisoning. My Home Town - Elliot Lake
    > Ontario, Canada, was formerly known as the Uranium Capital of the
    > World - and we had over 2 dozen mines operational at one point or
    > another - drudging up uranium Ore, refining it to its proper weight,
    > then shipping it off to the US government R and D dept for development
    > into your chemical weapons and nuclear bombs - and the waste is still
    > on site, sitting in tailings ponds to this day. Even though the Pure
    > Ore has been shipped off, studies have shown that 6/7th of the
    > radioactive material still exists in the tailings, which are outside,
    > sitting around the old reclaimed mine sites, waiting for someone to
    > come and clean it up. Which means that the area is still very
    > radioactive, and there is runoff to deal with as well. The Point is,
    > if anyone tells you we have the technology to contain radioactive
    > material 'SAFELY', you can laugh in their face - cuz its BS -



    Headlines in literally hundreds of newspapers across Canada and
    bordering States acclaim Elliot Lake as "A Wilderness Wonderland", "A
    delight in winter" and "A little piece of paradise."

    Elliot Lake attracts tens of thousands of visitors each year to enjoy
    its ancient forests, rivers and 4,000 lakes, which lie just north of
    some of the world's best fresh-water sailing on the northern shores of
    Lake Huron.

    Elliot Lake is a four season destination for affordable, outdoor
    recreational activities and quality experiences. We invite you to pick
    your favourite season, recreational activity, or special event, and
    explore the possibilities.


    Granted, that's from the tourism website, and I wouldn't expect them to
    harp on about the varied actinide options for the visitor who wants to
    get irradiated. But it can't be all *that* bad, now, can it?

    - Gerry Quinn


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