NNTP client problem (BSD Sockets) - Unix

This is a discussion on NNTP client problem (BSD Sockets) - Unix ; On 2008-03-19, David Schwartz wrote: > On Mar 18, 8:31 pm, Jim Cochrane > allowed.org> wrote: > >> However, triggering a bug is usually considered good news by the >> developers of the target software, as long as the bug ...

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Thread: NNTP client problem (BSD Sockets)

  1. Re: NNTP client problem (BSD Sockets)

    On 2008-03-19, David Schwartz wrote:
    > On Mar 18, 8:31 pm, Jim Cochrane > allowed.org> wrote:
    >
    >> However, triggering a bug is usually considered good news by the
    >> developers of the target software, as long as the bug gets reported with
    >> enough information such that it can be fixed.

    >
    > It certainly should be. Whether it actually is ...
    >
    > DS


    Yep - it depends on the developers' moods at the time, how important the
    project is, how busy and/or efficient people are, etc... But those who
    take pride in their work and have a goal to develop high-quality systems
    are going to, in general, be happy to receive a useful bug report.

    --


  2. Re: NNTP client problem (BSD Sockets)

    On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 22:53:12 +0100, Jim Cochrane wrote:

    > On 2008-03-20, Barry Margolin wrote:
    >> In article <47e1f278$0$16656$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
    >> Logan Shaw wrote:
    >>
    >>> Jim Cochrane wrote:
    >>> > On 2008-03-19, William Ahern
    >>> > wrote:
    >>>
    >>> >> It's not likely, but your malformed data could be triggering a bug
    >>> >> in their server software. At the very least, you might be filling
    >>> >> up their logs w/
    >>>
    >>> > However, triggering a bug is usually considered good news by the
    >>> > developers of the target software, as long as the bug gets reported
    >>> > with enough information such that it can be fixed.
    >>>
    >>> Developers, yes. Operators are a different story, though. They want
    >>> to know about the bug initially, but thenceforth, they want it not to
    >>> be triggered.

    >>
    >> If the bug is in a server and only impacts broken clients, and doesn't
    >> cause any annoying side effects, I suspect neither will give it very
    >> high priority.
    >>
    >>

    > Well, if the result of the defect is that a log file grows larger
    > unnecessarily, that could be considered an annoying side effect. :-)
    >
    > Even if not, I think some developers would fix the problem in order to
    > make their system more robust, as long as it's affordable - does not
    > take a long time to fix/test.
    >
    >
    > [I didn't see Logan's original response from my news server for some
    > reason. Perhaps they have a bug :-)]


    :-)
    Well in this particular case, the server will receive
    command1 args\r\n
    \0command2 args2\r\n
    \0...

    , and will probably handle the first command and hang on the nul
    character. For a line based protocol, there will be some way to eat the
    nul, and continue, but probably other (worse) things will break instead.
    How forgiving must an implementation be ? should it also eat excess
    whitespace?
    Just hanging on the file descriptor, and timing out eventually will
    probably be the sanest way to deal with unbehaved clients like this one.
    (and maybe add them automatically to a IP-ban list, too :-)

    HTH,
    AvK



  3. Re: NNTP client problem (BSD Sockets)

    In article ,
    Jim Cochrane wrote:

    > On 2008-03-20, Barry Margolin wrote:
    > > In article <47e1f278$0$16656$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
    > > Logan Shaw wrote:
    > >
    > >> Jim Cochrane wrote:
    > >> > On 2008-03-19, William Ahern wrote:
    > >>
    > >> >> It's not likely, but your malformed data could be triggering a bug in
    > >> >> their
    > >> >> server software. At the very least, you might be filling up their logs
    > >> >> w/
    > >>
    > >> > However, triggering a bug is usually considered good news by the
    > >> > developers of the target software, as long as the bug gets reported with
    > >> > enough information such that it can be fixed.
    > >>
    > >> Developers, yes. Operators are a different story, though. They
    > >> want to know about the bug initially, but thenceforth, they want
    > >> it not to be triggered.

    > >
    > > If the bug is in a server and only impacts broken clients, and doesn't
    > > cause any annoying side effects, I suspect neither will give it very
    > > high priority.
    > >

    >
    > Well, if the result of the defect is that a log file grows larger
    > unnecessarily, that could be considered an annoying side effect. :-)


    If it only happens when some random is programming a toy client
    implementation, it's not likely to even be noticed. If there were a
    common client that had the bug that triggered the error, then it might
    produce enough volume for them to care.

    > Even if not, I think some developers would fix the problem in order to
    > make their system more robust, as long as it's affordable - does not
    > take a long time to fix/test.


    And if they don't have more important things to do. Like fix bugs that
    affect real users, not just novice programmers who don't know how to
    call write() properly.

    --
    Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
    Arlington, MA
    *** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group ***

  4. Re: NNTP client problem (BSD Sockets)

    On 2008-03-20 23:02:52 +0000, Barry Margolin said:
    >
    > And if they don't have more important things to do. Like fix bugs that
    > affect real users, not just novice programmers who don't know how to
    > call write() properly.


    Nice...

    Fancy trying to be any more condecending?

    Anyway, as for the thread it has been useful, certainly some things I
    had not considered. I've looked into setting up a simple news server so
    that I don't need to clog Giganews servers. Although one would have to
    question if they really would get annoyed at what, a max of 15 - 20
    connection attempts a week?




  5. Re: NNTP client problem (BSD Sockets)

    On Mar 20, 5:19 pm, Niz wrote:

    > Anyway, as for the thread it has been useful, certainly some things I
    > had not considered. I've looked into setting up a simple news server so
    > that I don't need to clog Giganews servers. Although one would have to
    > question if they really would get annoyed at what, a max of 15 - 20
    > connection attempts a week?


    Sending zero bytes to a server that expects text can crash the server
    if it's poorly written. It's very unlikely that giganews servers have
    any bugs that serious, and I personally don't think it's particularly
    bad to use a public-facing server to test your code.

    There are enough people who explicitly permit such things though --
    why not use them?

    DS

  6. Re: NNTP client problem (BSD Sockets)

    In article <2008032100191316807-niz@nicetrycom>, Niz
    wrote:

    > On 2008-03-20 23:02:52 +0000, Barry Margolin said:
    > >
    > > And if they don't have more important things to do. Like fix bugs that
    > > affect real users, not just novice programmers who don't know how to
    > > call write() properly.

    >
    > Nice...


    Sorry, forgot you might still be in this thread.

    > Fancy trying to be any more condecending?


    Better develop a thick skin if you're gonna post your code to the
    Internet.

    > Anyway, as for the thread it has been useful, certainly some things I
    > had not considered. I've looked into setting up a simple news server so
    > that I don't need to clog Giganews servers. Although one would have to
    > question if they really would get annoyed at what, a max of 15 - 20
    > connection attempts a week?


    As others have said, unless this is actually causing their server to
    crash, which I hope is unlikely, I doubt they'll ever notice.

    --
    Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
    Arlington, MA
    *** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group ***

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