MD5SUM for Intrepid Ibex - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on MD5SUM for Intrepid Ibex - Ubuntu ; Lang wrote: > I did try Pan. Dint work. Period. You must have gotten some sort of error message, correct? What was it? Or, if you were not able to connect to your Bellsouth server, you probably had an error ...

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Thread: MD5SUM for Intrepid Ibex

  1. Re: MD5SUM for Intrepid Ibex

    Lang wrote:

    > I did try Pan. Dint work. Period.


    You must have gotten some sort of error message, correct? What was it? Or,
    if you were not able to connect to your Bellsouth server, you probably had
    an error in your setup, because it obviously works (check my headers).

    > TB -is- a NG reader. Period.


    No, not Period. Thunderbird is an email client to which newsreading was
    added as a feature - to compete with Outhouse Distress. This back in 2002
    when Thunderbird was first issued as a standalone application of
    the functions of the Netscape Email/News app. I've been using it for email
    since version 0.1

    > It works. Period.


    Yes, it does in its own way, though it lacks many features of a real,
    dedicated newsreader (such as Pan, or my favorite 40tude Dialog which I
    normally use with Wine).

    > Next question...


    In one of your other posts, you said, " got TB working with some issues...
    like installing it. Tried D/Ling from Mozilla site. Couldn't figure that
    out, but messed around with it enough to mess things up. "

    My recollection is that TB is installed by default with Ubuntu^1, and if
    you had to download it from Mozilla, you did something wrong. Perhaps the
    same occurred with Pan?

    ^1. though I could be misremembering. If so, Thunderbird is in Synaptic
    Package Manager, installable with the click of the mouse. No hocus-pocus
    necessary.

    --
    -bts
    -Friends don't let friends drive Windows


  2. Re: MD5SUM for Intrepid Ibex

    On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 01:21:39 -0500, Lang wrote:

    >>> Thunderbird's not a NG reader? Seems to be working fine here.


    >> No, it isn't. It's an email client that (sort of) (half-assed) does
    >> newsgroups too. Poorly.


    > I did try Pan. Dint work. Period.


    Oh, it "dint" work, eh? How come it works for tens of thousands of other
    users?

    > TB -is- a NG reader. Period. It works.


    Perhaps it allows you to read newsgroups. Yes. It lacks most of the
    features that enhance that experience. Scoring, for the most notable one.

    > Period. Next question...


    Have you been ignorant your entire life?


    --
    "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org

  3. Re: MD5SUM for Intrepid Ibex

    Phillie Phanatic wrote:
    > Lang wrote:
    >
    >> I did try Pan. Dint work. Period.

    >
    > You must have gotten some sort of error message, correct? What was it? Or,
    > if you were not able to connect to your Bellsouth server, you probably had
    > an error in your setup, because it obviously works (check my headers).
    >


    0.132, which, AFAIK, is the only version available in the repo's and is,
    according to the Pan home page, a beta.....something I did not realize
    until today. I've been trying out the 0.132 version for the last couple
    of weeks now.....buggy. Intermittent "can't find newsgroup" error
    message when generating replies and blank messages while trying to read
    posts are the prime reasons I've been seeking an alternative newsgroup
    reader. Might give the stable Pan a looksee later on.......

    Also tried using Knode but for some reason can't log onto motzarella.org
    even though I am using exactly the same logon name, password etc that I
    have used in TB and Pan. Will probably try it out with one of the other
    free newsgroups servers for further testing.......

    Actually, FWIW, most of my newsgroups requirements, which are pretty
    basic in nature, are handled by TB; read, reply, occasional text save
    and plonk. :-)

  4. Re: MD5SUM for Intrepid Ibex

    Dan C wrote:
    > On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 01:21:39 -0500, Lang wrote:
    >
    >>>> Thunderbird's not a NG reader? Seems to be working fine here.

    >
    >>> No, it isn't. It's an email client that (sort of) (half-assed) does
    >>> newsgroups too. Poorly.

    >
    >> I did try Pan. Dint work. Period.

    >
    > Oh, it "dint" work, eh? How come it works for tens of thousands of other
    > users?
    >


    I can only suppose for the same reasons TB works for me.

    >> TB -is- a NG reader. Period. It works.

    >
    > Perhaps it allows you to read newsgroups. Yes. It lacks most of the
    > features that enhance that experience. Scoring, for the most notable one.


    The best newsreader I've found, personal preference only, is
    surprisingly, an MS product... either OL Express or Windows Mail. Why?
    Compared only to TB, seeing how I never got Pan to work in previous
    versions of UB, WM automatically sorts threads by date. TB doesn't do
    that. At least not that I've been able to ascertain. And WM lets one
    view only threads in which one is involved. Haven't seen that in any
    other NG readers. Though, I admit, I haven't seen them all.

    >
    >> Period. Next question...

    >
    > Have you been ignorant your entire life?
    >
    >


    Have you been a bitter curmudgeon your entire life?

    Lang

  5. Re: MD5SUM for Intrepid Ibex

    Lang Murphy wrote:

    > The best newsreader I've found, personal preference only, is
    > surprisingly, an MS product... either OL Express or Windows Mail.
    > Why?


    Why indeed. Your personal preference (experience) is somewhat limited
    then, I'm afraid. You shouldn't be calling those products "best," if you
    have never seen other ones.

    > Compared only to TB, seeing how I never got Pan to work in previous
    > versions of UB, WM automatically sorts threads by date. TB doesn't do
    > that. At least not that I've been able to ascertain.


    Thunderbird won't sort by date? Did you try, um, clicking on the top of
    the Date column? And the Subject, and the From, and the ... columns?

    > And WM lets one view only threads in which one is involved. Haven't
    > seen that in any other NG readers. Though, I admit, I haven't seen
    > them all.


    Once you've seen a real newsreader, you'll never go back.

    --
    -bts
    -Friends don't let friends drive Windows

  6. Re: MD5SUM for Intrepid Ibex

    Lang Murphy wrote:

    > The best newsreader I've found, personal preference only, is
    > surprisingly, an MS product... either OL Express or Windows Mail. Why?
    > Compared only to TB, seeing how I never got Pan to work in previous
    > versions of UB, WM automatically sorts threads by date. TB doesn't do
    > that. At least not that I've been able to ascertain.


    I think you need to review how 'threading' works, which means to sort
    messages into trees based on the References lines, vs how the other
    sorting works, such as sorting by subject, date, or from in an ascending
    or descending manner, which does not create a tree.

    With 'Group messages by conversation' turned off, OE can perform a primary
    and secondary sort. If you sort by subject primarily, which often
    resembles a threaded view except there is no tree structure, then OE (and
    Mail) will sort the subject 'thread' (primary structure) secondarily by
    date.

    This has the advantage for those who like to read 'threads' or subjects in
    pure chronological order to do so; whereas and/but a thread tree based on
    the References line (of message id/s) may take messages out of pure
    chronology because a later reply to an earlier subthread may precede an
    earlier reply to a later subthread.

    Tbird can sort messages as threaded or unthreaded and can sort ascending
    or descending on any of 13 different values. OE calls threading 'group by
    conversation'. If you turn on OE's group by conversation and
    'secondarily' sort by subject or date or from, then OE is going to arrange
    the thread trees in that manner.


    --
    Mike Easter


  7. Re: MD5SUM for Intrepid Ibex

    * Michael B. Trausch wrote in alt.os.linux.ubuntu:

    > A "proper newsreader" is software that adheres to Usenet conventions,
    > that follows the NNTP protocol standard, and handles applicable updated
    > standards such as message signatures and the like.


    Congrats, youve just described Telnet, would you use it to read news?

    --
    David

  8. Re: MD5SUM for Intrepid Ibex

    Lang Murphy wrote:

    > The best newsreader I've found, personal preference only, is
    > surprisingly, an MS product... either OL Express or Windows Mail. Why?
    > Compared only to TB, seeing how I never got Pan to work in previous
    > versions of UB, WM automatically sorts threads by date. TB doesn't do
    > that. At least not that I've been able to ascertain. And WM lets one
    > view only threads in which one is involved. Haven't seen that in any
    > other NG readers. Though, I admit, I haven't seen them all.


    You gotta be kidding, trolling, inexperienced, crazy, a Micr0$lut
    stockholder, or what?! ;-)

    I see you are a MacWhacker, so maybe Apple has limited your available
    software choices, locked them in with their EULA, added a ridiculous
    price, and brainwashed you into believing Apple is better than alternatives?

    Well, it certainly is better than Windows, so you do have one thing
    going for you.

    But are you running Windows on your Intel Mac? I doubt it because you
    know better.

    So why burn yourself running anything that Micr0$lut has stolen and broken?

    My Thunderbird does indeed sort threads by date and that is my preferred
    configuration. It also has all kinds of filtering, but lacks scoring, if
    you really require that (I don't).

    It is the Linux version though, and I don't know if Windows' or OS-X's
    versions have these capabilities, but they should. I do run Thunderbird
    on an iMac (OS 10.3.9), but it takes too long to boot and go through its
    update checking for programs I do not ever need (iTunes, iPhoto, ...).
    My 12 older (OS-7.6.1, 9.0.4) Macs have Mozilla and even Netscape
    Communicator, and they also work fine -- except they are so slow. ;-)

    You are certainly entitled to your opinions and personal preferences
    though. Just take my two-cents as additional food for thought. I do have
    many year's experience with Macs, Windows Pee Cees, and Unix/Linux,
    going back to around 1972, and only want to share my accumulated wisdom,
    which is the basis for my personal preferences.

    As for Pan, it does work, and I use it from time-to-time on several
    different distros of Linux. There also are two versions of Pan, and the
    latest beta seems to be short a lot of the features that are available
    in version 0.14.2.91, which is the latest stable release. You may have
    trouble installing it though if you aren't familiar with the procedure
    to get older packages.

    You could also use Claws Mail, which is a very good newsreader. Or
    KNode, which is a pretty good newsreader. Or Evolution, Mozilla, Opera,
    slrn, tin, .... The list is long.

    Or use 40tude Dialog under WINE.


    --
    John

    No Microsoft, Apple, AT&T, Intel, Novell, Trend Micro, nor Ford products were used in the preparation or transmission of this message.

    The EULA sounds like it was written by a team of lawyers who want to tell me what I can't do. The GPL sounds like it was written by a human being, who wants me to know what I can do.

  9. Re: MD5SUM for Intrepid Ibex

    On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:38:20 GMT
    SINNER wrote:

    > Congrats, youve just described Telnet, would you use it to read news?


    Using telnet to read news would make the _human_ a proper newsreader,
    not the telnet client. The same could be said for anyone crazy enough
    to use netcat to do something like mail or news.

    That having been said, the protocols _are_ that simple to use over the
    wire directly like that. They're just not convenient. Having to
    endlessly qualify a string of words in order to assure that you people
    will take them in context would get too tiring.

    Did half of COLA move here, or something? Jeesh.

    --- Mike

    --
    My sigfile ran away and is on hiatus.
    http://www.trausch.us/


  10. Re: MD5SUM for Intrepid Ibex

    * Michael B. Trausch wrote in alt.os.linux.ubuntu:

    > On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:38:20 GMT
    > SINNER wrote:
    >
    >> Congrats, youve just described Telnet, would you use it to read news?

    >
    > Using telnet to read news would make the _human_ a proper newsreader,


    thats silly. Telnet is a client, it can attach to a NNTP server and read
    articles. Your above statement suits TBird just as easily as telnet.

    > not the telnet client. The same could be said for anyone crazy enough
    > to use netcat to do something like mail or news.
    >
    > That having been said, the protocols _are_ that simple to use over the
    > wire directly like that. They're just not convenient. Having to
    > endlessly qualify a string of words in order to assure that you people
    > will take them in context would get too tiring.
    >


    Your words. The Linux way is to use a tool made for the job and if the job
    requires multiple tools, you string them together, you seem to think that
    using a multi purpose tool to do the job is ok becasue it works, even if it
    dosent work well. Imagine trying to build a house with a swiss army knife.

    > Did half of COLA move here, or something? Jeesh.


    Something tells me you spend too much time reading headers.

    --
    David

  11. Re: MD5SUM for Intrepid Ibex

    Phillie Phanatic wrote:
    > Lang wrote:
    >
    >> I did try Pan. Dint work. Period.

    >
    > You must have gotten some sort of error message, correct? What was it? Or,
    > if you were not able to connect to your Bellsouth server, you probably had
    > an error in your setup, because it obviously works (check my headers).
    >


    I had assistance from folks in this NG when trying to use Pan with 7.10.
    Could never figure it out. Couldn't post message to server was the
    error, if I remember correctly.

    >> TB -is- a NG reader. Period.

    >
    > No, not Period. Thunderbird is an email client to which newsreading was
    > added as a feature - to compete with Outhouse Distress. This back in 2002
    > when Thunderbird was first issued as a standalone application of
    > the functions of the Netscape Email/News app. I've been using it for email
    > since version 0.1


    Well, we're splitting hairs here, methinks. A dedicated newsreader, no.
    A newsreader? Yes.

    >
    >> It works. Period.

    >
    > Yes, it does in its own way, though it lacks many features of a real,
    > dedicated newsreader (such as Pan, or my favorite 40tude Dialog which I
    > normally use with Wine).
    >


    K, well seeing how I got TB working, guess I'll try Pan next.

    >> Next question...

    >
    > In one of your other posts, you said, " got TB working with some issues...
    > like installing it. Tried D/Ling from Mozilla site. Couldn't figure that
    > out, but messed around with it enough to mess things up. "
    >
    > My recollection is that TB is installed by default with Ubuntu^1, and if
    > you had to download it from Mozilla, you did something wrong. Perhaps the
    > same occurred with Pan?
    >
    > ^1. though I could be misremembering. If so, Thunderbird is in Synaptic
    > Package Manager, installable with the click of the mouse. No hocus-pocus
    > necessary.
    >


    I don't think TB was installed when I installed 8.04. Tried the Mozilla
    dl... then tried the package manager, and TB wouldn't fire off. Slicked
    the box and used apt-get in a terminal window and that worked.

    Lang

  12. Re: MD5SUM for Intrepid Ibex

    Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
    > Lang Murphy wrote:
    >
    >> The best newsreader I've found, personal preference only, is
    >> surprisingly, an MS product... either OL Express or Windows Mail.
    >> Why?

    >
    > Why indeed. Your personal preference (experience) is somewhat limited
    > then, I'm afraid. You shouldn't be calling those products "best," if you
    > have never seen other ones.


    Well, maybe poor wording... should've written the reader I like best.
    Which is what I meant.

    >
    >> Compared only to TB, seeing how I never got Pan to work in previous
    >> versions of UB, WM automatically sorts threads by date. TB doesn't do
    >> that. At least not that I've been able to ascertain.

    >
    > Thunderbird won't sort by date? Did you try, um, clicking on the top of
    > the Date column? And the Subject, and the From, and the ... columns?


    Well, it won't sort by thread AND date... only thread or date.

    >
    >> And WM lets one view only threads in which one is involved. Haven't
    >> seen that in any other NG readers. Though, I admit, I haven't seen
    >> them all.

    >
    > Once you've seen a real newsreader, you'll never go back.
    >


    Guess I need to try out a couple more.

    Lang

  13. Re: MD5SUM for Intrepid Ibex

    Mike Easter wrote:
    > Lang Murphy wrote:
    >
    >> The best newsreader I've found, personal preference only, is
    >> surprisingly, an MS product... either OL Express or Windows Mail. Why?
    >> Compared only to TB, seeing how I never got Pan to work in previous
    >> versions of UB, WM automatically sorts threads by date. TB doesn't do
    >> that. At least not that I've been able to ascertain.

    >
    > I think you need to review how 'threading' works, which means to sort
    > messages into trees based on the References lines, vs how the other
    > sorting works, such as sorting by subject, date, or from in an ascending
    > or descending manner, which does not create a tree.
    >
    > With 'Group messages by conversation' turned off, OE can perform a primary
    > and secondary sort. If you sort by subject primarily, which often
    > resembles a threaded view except there is no tree structure, then OE (and
    > Mail) will sort the subject 'thread' (primary structure) secondarily by
    > date.
    >
    > This has the advantage for those who like to read 'threads' or subjects in
    > pure chronological order to do so; whereas and/but a thread tree based on
    > the References line (of message id/s) may take messages out of pure
    > chronology because a later reply to an earlier subthread may precede an
    > earlier reply to a later subthread.
    >
    > Tbird can sort messages as threaded or unthreaded and can sort ascending
    > or descending on any of 13 different values. OE calls threading 'group by
    > conversation'. If you turn on OE's group by conversation and
    > 'secondarily' sort by subject or date or from, then OE is going to arrange
    > the thread trees in that manner.
    >
    >


    Mike,

    Thanks for the feedback. I get how threading works, but was not fully
    cognizant of the impact of sorting chronologically re: earlier replies
    to later sub-threads, etc.

    Lang

  14. Re: MD5SUM for Intrepid Ibex

    John F. Morse wrote:
    > Lang Murphy wrote:
    >
    >> The best newsreader I've found, personal preference only, is
    >> surprisingly, an MS product... either OL Express or Windows Mail. Why?
    >> Compared only to TB, seeing how I never got Pan to work in previous
    >> versions of UB, WM automatically sorts threads by date. TB doesn't do
    >> that. At least not that I've been able to ascertain. And WM lets one
    >> view only threads in which one is involved. Haven't seen that in any
    >> other NG readers. Though, I admit, I haven't seen them all.

    >
    > You gotta be kidding, trolling, inexperienced, crazy, a Micr0$lut
    > stockholder, or what?! ;-)


    None of the above. What I meant was, not that WM was the best, just that
    I liked it the best out of the newsreaders I've tried, which, I admit,
    right now is limited to TB and Pan.

    >
    > I see you are a MacWhacker, so maybe Apple has limited your available
    > software choices, locked them in with their EULA, added a ridiculous
    > price, and brainwashed you into believing Apple is better than
    > alternatives?
    >
    > Well, it certainly is better than Windows, so you do have one thing
    > going for you.
    >
    > But are you running Windows on your Intel Mac? I doubt it because you
    > know better.
    >
    > So why burn yourself running anything that Micr0$lut has stolen and broken?it screams


    Have mostly Windows boxes here. Have one Mac Pro. Am running UB 8.04 on
    this Dell I'm sitting at right now. I do have Vista installed on my Mac
    Pro, mainly just cause I wanted see how it would perform, and it's fast
    on the Mac Pro.

    >
    > My Thunderbird does indeed sort threads by date and that is my preferred
    > configuration. It also has all kinds of filtering, but lacks scoring, if
    > you really require that (I don't).


    Well, then you know something I don't because I can't get TB to sort
    threads by date. It seems that it will either sort by thread or sort by
    date.

    >
    > It is the Linux version though, and I don't know if Windows' or OS-X's
    > versions have these capabilities, but they should. I do run Thunderbird
    > on an iMac (OS 10.3.9), but it takes too long to boot and go through its
    > update checking for programs I do not ever need (iTunes, iPhoto, ...).
    > My 12 older (OS-7.6.1, 9.0.4) Macs have Mozilla and even Netscape
    > Communicator, and they also work fine -- except they are so slow. ;-)
    >
    > You are certainly entitled to your opinions and personal preferences
    > though. Just take my two-cents as additional food for thought. I do have
    > many year's experience with Macs, Windows Pee Cees, and Unix/Linux,
    > going back to around 1972, and only want to share my accumulated wisdom,
    > which is the basis for my personal preferences.
    >
    > As for Pan, it does work, and I use it from time-to-time on several
    > different distros of Linux. There also are two versions of Pan, and the
    > latest beta seems to be short a lot of the features that are available
    > in version 0.14.2.91, which is the latest stable release. You may have
    > trouble installing it though if you aren't familiar with the procedure
    > to get older packages.
    >
    > You could also use Claws Mail, which is a very good newsreader. Or
    > KNode, which is a pretty good newsreader. Or Evolution, Mozilla, Opera,
    > slrn, tin, .... The list is long.
    >
    > Or use 40tude Dialog under WINE.
    >
    >


    Well, John... thanks for that detailed analysis of what's available. I
    think I might've tried Claws mail back when I tried 7.10 and couldn't
    get TB or Pan or Claws to post msg's to my ISP's ng server.

    Installed 8.04 and TB and it worked right away. So not sure what the
    issue was back in 7.10, but it ain't there anymore, so I'm happy to be
    able to post to NG's from this UB box.

    Lang

  15. Re: MD5SUM for Intrepid Ibex

    Lang wrote:

    > Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
    >> Thunderbird won't sort by date? Did you try, um, clicking on the top
    >> of the Date column? And the Subject, and the From, and the ...
    >> columns?

    >
    > Well, it won't sort by thread AND date... only thread or date.


    Umm. It seems to me if you sort by Thread, the posts within the threads
    would be in chronological order .. which is Date. Right?

    --
    -bts
    -Friends don't let friends drive Windows

  16. Re: MD5SUM for Intrepid Ibex

    Lang wrote:
    >
    >
    > I don't think TB was installed when I installed 8.04.


    If you used the LiveCD then you are correct.

    >Tried the Mozilla
    > dl... then tried the package manager, and TB wouldn't fire off. Slicked
    > the box and used apt-get in a terminal window and that worked.


    Should have worked from package manager too. :-)


  17. Re: MD5SUM for Intrepid Ibex

    Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
    > Lang wrote:
    >
    >> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
    >>> Thunderbird won't sort by date? Did you try, um, clicking on the top
    >>> of the Date column? And the Subject, and the From, and the ...
    >>> columns?

    >> Well, it won't sort by thread AND date... only thread or date.

    >
    > Umm. It seems to me if you sort by Thread, the posts within the threads
    > would be in chronological order .. which is Date. Right?
    >


    Yah... guess I need to be open to alternative views... I'm used to
    date/thread sorting. Which doesn't appear to be available in TB. Got my
    sort order backwards in the prior posts. In TB if you sort by date,
    threads go out the window. If you sort by threads, dates go out the window.

    Like I said, just what I'm used to... gotta hang in there for a bit with
    TB to familiarize myself with the "way it works."

    Lang

  18. Re: MD5SUM for Intrepid Ibex

    Lang wrote:
    > John F. Morse wrote:
    >
    >> My Thunderbird does indeed sort threads by date and that is my
    >> preferred configuration. It also has all kinds of filtering, but
    >> lacks scoring, if you really require that (I don't).

    >
    > Well, then you know something I don't because I can't get TB to sort
    > threads by date. It seems that it will either sort by thread or sort
    > by date.



    Here are my selections. See if they do what you are seeking.


    View menu

    Sort by

    o Date
    o Ascending
    o Threaded

    Messages

    o All

    Threads

    o Unread


    No other options are selected.

    N.B. You cannot sort by both threads and date. Only one or the other is
    even possible in any sort or program.

    But you can sort first on date, then by thread. Watch the "outline" line
    at the left of the little icon representing a message -- in the message
    list pane (top-right pane).

    You will see where threads are listed under ascending (increasing)
    dates, and messages in the thread "branches" are also sorted by date/time.

    IOW, all of the messages are not listed from top-to-bottom in an
    ascending order, but are broken out into the referencing threads
    ("nested") in order, and these referencing threads are also sorted
    correctly.

    I logically sort using ascending, so the newest message (or thread with
    the newest, latest-posted "subject leader") is on the bottom. Others
    sort descending, so the newest is right in their face. That order is
    illogical and apparently breaks the ability to display correctly. I
    don't use it because I like to read in a logical order.


    --
    John

    No Microsoft, Apple, AT&T, Intel, Novell, Trend Micro, nor Ford products were used in the preparation or transmission of this message.

    The EULA sounds like it was written by a team of lawyers who want to tell me what I can't do. The GPL sounds like it was written by a human being, who wants me to know what I can do.

  19. Re: MD5SUM for Intrepid Ibex

    On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 03:45:28 GMT
    SINNER wrote:

    > * Michael B. Trausch wrote in alt.os.linux.ubuntu:
    >
    > > On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:38:20 GMT
    > > SINNER wrote:
    > >
    > >> Congrats, youve just described Telnet, would you use it to read
    > >> news?

    > >
    > > Using telnet to read news would make the _human_ a proper
    > > newsreader,

    >
    > thats silly. Telnet is a client, it can attach to a NNTP server and
    > read articles. Your above statement suits TBird just as easily as
    > telnet.
    >


    But Telnet does not implement the standards.

    My words were, from msgid <20081101123641.32b5c381@zest>:
    > A "proper newsreader" is software that adheres to Usenet conventions,
    > that follows the NNTP protocol standard, and handles applicable
    > updated standards such as message signatures and the like.


    Your claim that I described telnet is false. Telnet supports various
    forms of terminal-dependent negotiation, feature negotiation, and
    character-based and line-based buffering and sending. That's _it_.

    It does _not_ adhere to Usenet conventions. The _human_ would have to
    do that.

    It does _not_ follow the NNTP protocol standard, described in RFC 977.
    In order to use telnet as a client for Usenet, the _human_ would have
    to know RFC 977 and follow it. Not the software.

    It does _not_ handle any applicable updated standards; the _human_
    would have to know RFCs 2045, 2046, 2047, 2077, 4288, and 4289.

    It does _not_ implement RFC 4880, nor RFCs 3851, 3850 or any other
    one relevant to S/MIME.

    Thus, the _human_ would be the proper newsreader, *not* telnet. And
    the human would likely not even be a proper newsreader, since it is
    much more likely that the human would send malformed messages.

    My words were clear to any person who has a brain and knows how to use
    it. You are a (pre?)teenager, a troll, or a just a damned fool. Take
    your pick.

    > > not the telnet client. The same could be said for anyone crazy
    > > enough to use netcat to do something like mail or news.
    > >
    > > That having been said, the protocols _are_ that simple to use over
    > > the wire directly like that. They're just not convenient. Having
    > > to endlessly qualify a string of words in order to assure that you
    > > people will take them in context would get too tiring.
    > >

    >
    > Your words.
    >


    Your idiocy. The context was there, plain as day. You simply chose to
    ignore it. You're one who looks stupid for it.

    > The Linux way is to use a tool made for the job and if the job
    > requires multiple tools, you string them together, you seem to think
    > that using a multi purpose tool to do the job is ok becasue it works,
    > even if it dosent work well. Imagine trying to build a house with a
    > swiss army knife.
    >


    Claws works _quite_ well. Telnet would _not_. Something working well,
    (at least in my opinion, which is of course subjective since there is
    no such thing as an objective opinion of "is the best" or "is the
    worst" or "works well", etc) means that it saves me time, means that it
    is robust software and doesn't crash, doesn't lose my data, doesn't
    violate the RFCs, and carries the features that I need to use.
    "telnet" does not fit this standard when it comes to Usenet; only an
    extreme masochist would use telnet to read news seriously. It is okay
    for debugging the server since the _human_ can see what is going on
    without any abstraction from a client, but it is _not_ feasible as a
    client. Telnet is *not* a proper newsreader by any definition.

    > > Did half of COLA move here, or something? Jeesh.

    >
    > Something tells me you spend too much time reading headers.
    >


    Not the case. You just carry the signature stupidity and lack of
    argumentative quality of either a COLA troll or a child. If you're a
    COLA troll, I don't want to see you. If you're a child, you're not
    worth my time. Therefore, off with you.

    Goad someone else, I won't see it. My proper newsreader hides you
    forevermore.

    --- Mike

    --
    My sigfile ran away and is on hiatus.
    http://www.trausch.us/


  20. Re: MD5SUM for Intrepid Ibex

    On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 01:46:09 -0400, Lang wrote:

    > Stephan Rose wrote:
    >> On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 19:02:41 +0100, Alias wrote:

    >
    >> So if you disagree with his post there are certainly better ways to
    >> handle it and respond. At least if you want to even remotely be taken
    >> seriously by anyone.
    >>
    >>

    > Stephan,
    >
    > Har! Too true.
    >
    > Dunno if you remember helping me out trying to get NG readers working in
    > a prior version of Ubuntu...


    Yup! I most certainly do remember.

    > Installed Hardy the other day and got Thunderbird working w/o issue.
    > (Old issue was that I could read msgs but not respond.) Well... I guess
    > I should say... got TB working with some issues... like installing it.
    > Tried D/Ling from Mozilla site. Couldn't figure that out, but messed
    > around with it enough to mess things up. Ended up slicking the box and
    > using apt-get and that worked fine.


    That is what apt-get is there for. I think that is one of the biggest
    challenges for windows users to get past: Fighting the urge of
    downloading their apps from a website rather than simply using apt-get or
    synaptic.

    Glad to see you got it working.

    >
    > Anyway... glad to see folks here using common sense to deal with this
    > dude.


    I wish I could get some common sense into him though.

    >
    > Also see you're braving the rocks and shoals over in vista.general. Good
    > luck with that. ;D


    Hahha, thanks! =)

    --
    Stephan
    1986 Pontiac Fiero GT

    君の事思い出す日なんてないのは
    君の事忘れたときがないから

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