Flash 10 - Ubuntu

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  1. Flash 10

    Has anybody installed the flash 10 player from the Adobe site? There's a
    ..deb for Ubuntu 8.04.

    Any problems?

  2. Re: Flash 10

    Phil Stovell wrote:
    > Has anybody installed the flash 10 player from the Adobe site? There's a
    > .deb for Ubuntu 8.04.
    >
    > Any problems?

    I installed it because Firefox 3 seems to be missing the plugin. I
    haven't had any problem with it, but then again it still hasn't shown up
    in firefox plugins. Not sure what the problem could be. May be that I am
    trying to use files that I have imported to my home folder that I have
    used across more than one distribution. I sometimes have these problems
    then I just delete everything and start fresh importing only my
    bookmarks. Really don't want to do that again, but I may.

  3. Re: Flash 10

    Phil Stovell wrote:

    > Has anybody installed the flash 10 player from the Adobe site? There's a
    > .deb for Ubuntu 8.04.
    >
    > Any problems?


    There's no 64-bit version, so I couldn't install it. I was hoping it would
    provide accelerated video with Compiz, but I'll have to wait until a 64-bit
    version is provided to find out

    IMHO, it's less than cool to not include a 64-bit version.

    Daniel

  4. Re: Flash 10

    On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:19:20 +0100, Phil Stovell wrote:

    > Has anybody installed the flash 10 player from the Adobe site? There's a
    > .deb for Ubuntu 8.04.
    >
    > Any problems?


    I haven't yet. Good article here though...

    http://tombuntu.com/index.php/2008/1...-player-10-in-
    ubuntu-804-and-810/

  5. Re: Flash 10

    On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:19:20 +0100, Phil Stovell wrote:

    > Has anybody installed the flash 10 player from the Adobe site? There's a
    > .deb for Ubuntu 8.04.
    >
    > Any problems?


    Not an answer to your question, nor am I saying you shouldn't install
    Flash. But you should read this:

    http://www.imasuper.com/66/technolog...rivacy-killer/

    I have Flash installed on Firefox, which I use for about 5% of my web
    browsing. The rest of my browsing is done in Konqueror, with most
    everything (Java, JavaScript, redirects, animations, and of course Flash)
    disabled.

    Still, I was stunned at the number of Flash cookies stored on my computer.
    The above article explains how to delete them and how to prevent them.

    --
    Tony Sivori
    Due to spam, I'm now filtering all Google Groups posters.

  6. Re: Flash 10

    On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:28:52 -0400, Tony Sivori wrote:
    >
    > Not an answer to your question, nor am I saying you shouldn't install
    > Flash. But you should read this:
    >
    > http://www.imasuper.com/66/technolog...rivacy-killer/


    Heheh, I have a separate account for each internet activity.
    Bottom of browsing accounts's $HOME/.bash_profile has

    firefox $HOME/index.htm
    /local/bin/del_trash

    exit
    #*************** end .bash_profile ******************


    My desktop shortcut for browser has
    xterm -title -display $DISPLAY -geom 30x3+439+439 \
    -e sudo /bin/su -l &


    When I click the shortcut. it logs into browser, firefox comes up with
    my web page. Upon exit of firefox, del_trash deletes directories like

    /bin/rm -fr $HOME/.adobe
    /bin/rm -fr $HOME/.java
    /bin/rm -fr $HOME/.mplayer
    /bin/rm -fr $HOME/.macromedia

    and removes firefox's directory and installs a pristine copy.

    if [ -e firefox.tar ] ; then
    /bin/rm -rf .mozilla
    tar -xpvf $HOME/firefox.tar > /dev/null 2>&1
    fi

    I do not use bookmarks.

    I keep urls in an ascii file, with keywords, which allows me to use a
    script to grep for something I want. Example:

    $ urls bash doc
    http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/...cu_chap02.html ! basic shell bash doc
    http://gentoo-wiki.com/MAN_bash ! documentation
    http://cfaj.freeshell.org/shell ! bash script tips usage doc
    http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/index.html ! bash script advanced documentation

  7. Re: Flash 10

    Nico wrote in
    news:s4GdnXQAsYQPAmXVnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@giganews.com :

    > On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:19:20 +0100, Phil Stovell wrote:
    >
    >> Has anybody installed the flash 10 player from the Adobe site?
    >> There's a .deb for Ubuntu 8.04.
    >>
    >> Any problems?

    >
    > I haven't yet. Good article here though...
    >
    > http://tombuntu.com/index.php/2008/1...ash-player-10-
    > in- ubuntu-804-and-810/
    >



    Thanks for the link. Youtube'ing quite merryly along here now... :-)


  8. Re: Flash 10

    Daniel Smedegaard Buus wrote:
    > Phil Stovell wrote:
    >
    >> Has anybody installed the flash 10 player from the Adobe site? There's a
    >> .deb for Ubuntu 8.04.
    >>
    >> Any problems?

    >
    > There's no 64-bit version, so I couldn't install it. I was hoping it would
    > provide accelerated video with Compiz, but I'll have to wait until a 64-bit
    > version is provided to find out
    >
    > IMHO, it's less than cool to not include a 64-bit version.
    >
    > Daniel

    Adobe don't support 64bit in either flash or reader. You have to use the
    nspluginwrapper to get them to work. (This is how the medibuntu packages
    are installed)

  9. Re: Flash 10

    On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:28:52 -0400
    Tony Sivori wrote:

    > Not an answer to your question, nor am I saying you shouldn't install
    > Flash. But you should read this:
    >
    > http://www.imasuper.com/66/technolog...rivacy-killer/
    >
    > I have Flash installed on Firefox, which I use for about 5% of my web
    > browsing. The rest of my browsing is done in Konqueror, with most
    > everything (Java, JavaScript, redirects, animations, and of course
    > Flash) disabled.
    >


    I fail to see the creepiness factor. It's like saying "cookies are
    bad, let's all freak out".

    Anyone sufficiently gifted at writing or speech can sway people that
    don't know the topic well enough to make a fair decision on whether
    something is good or bad. Even today, many pieces of software will
    scream at you in crazy ways, saying "OH NOES YOU HAVE COOKIES IN YOUR
    BROWSER CACHE, LET'S NUKE EM". This has _got_ to be the most annoying
    thing ever. Cookies are not intrinsically good or bad.

    The question is, do you trust the person or company who hosts the Web
    site? If not, don't go there. It's really that simple. Do you know
    whether or not you trust the site? Well, if you don't know, then you
    don't trust them. Pretty simple stuff.

    >
    > Still, I was stunned at the number of Flash cookies stored on my
    > computer. The above article explains how to delete them and how to
    > prevent them.
    >


    Flash Local Shared Objects are very useful things, just like HTTP
    cookies are very useful things. LSOs can be information or components
    of a media player application or even a temporary storage of the media
    you're streaming. (Though, often that media is simply placed in /tmp
    instead of cached in the LSO storage area.)

    If you want to see what is _actually_ stored there, why not check it
    out? You can find it in
    ${HOME}/.macromedia/Flash_Player/#SharedObjects/ which contains the
    actual files.

    I have nothing in my LSO area that isn't preferences or simple state
    information. In fact, what *is* there is great because I don't have to
    adjust settings when I go to the sites in question. This makes me
    *very* happy.

    --- Mike

    --
    My sigfile ran away and is on hiatus.

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
    Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

    iEYEAREDAAYFAkj4wacACgkQ0kE/IBnFmjCLMgCeKsURVozd9xpaeVWnlN8TJ34Y
    o/wAnjlNWlA+2DWWL69g4MNmb4qkR6wo
    =gOO8
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


  10. Re: Flash 10

    Tony Sivori wrote in
    newsan.2008.10.17.15.28.51.390844@yahoo.com:

    > On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:19:20 +0100, Phil Stovell wrote:
    >
    >> Has anybody installed the flash 10 player from the Adobe site?
    >> There's a .deb for Ubuntu 8.04.
    >>
    >> Any problems?

    >
    > Not an answer to your question, nor am I saying you shouldn't install
    > Flash. But you should read this:
    >
    > http://www.imasuper.com/66/technolog...es-the-silent-



    Thanks for the pointer. :-)

    >
    > I have Flash installed on Firefox, which I use for about 5% of my web
    > browsing. The rest of my browsing is done in Konqueror, with most
    > everything (Java, JavaScript, redirects, animations, and of course
    > Flash) disabled.
    >
    > Still, I was stunned at the number of Flash cookies stored on my
    > computer. The above article explains how to delete them and how to
    > prevent them.
    >



    FWIW, I'm all over the web practically every day and on the Vista system
    I had only 2 flash cookies (1 years worth) and the Ubuntu box had 1
    (fairly recent install). Went to Adobe's web site and used the manager
    to turn the rascals off permanently; will see how it goes from here.
    :-)


  11. Re: Flash 10

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Michael B. Trausch belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    > I fail to see the creepiness factor. It's like saying "cookies are
    > bad, let's all freak out".
    >
    > ...
    >
    > The question is, do you trust the person or company who hosts the Web
    > site? If not, don't go there. It's really that simple. Do you know
    > whether or not you trust the site? Well, if you don't know, then you
    > don't trust them. Pretty simple stuff.


    Not really, since it looks like you get local-share-object files from
    any site that has some flash working on the web pages you visit.

    > Flash Local Shared Objects are very useful things, just like HTTP
    > cookies are very useful things. LSOs can be information or components
    > of a media player application or even a temporary storage of the media
    > you're streaming. (Though, often that media is simply placed in /tmp
    > instead of cached in the LSO storage area.)
    >
    > If you want to see what is _actually_ stored there, why not check it
    > out? You can find it in
    > ${HOME}/.macromedia/Flash_Player/#SharedObjects/ which contains the
    > actual files.


    http://solve.sourceforge.net/

    An SOL viewer.

    > I have nothing in my LSO area that isn't preferences or simple state
    > information. In fact, what *is* there is great because I don't have to
    > adjust settings when I go to the sites in question. This makes me
    > *very* happy.
    >
    > --=20
    > My sigfile ran away and is on hiatus.


    But your cookies are still around .

    --
    "Maybe we can get together and show off to each other sometimes."

  12. Re: Flash 10

    Phil Stovell schreef:
    > Has anybody installed the flash 10 player from the Adobe site? There's a
    > .deb for Ubuntu 8.04.
    >
    > Any problems?


    I installed it a few days ago and it works well.
    At least when I enable it by clicking on the Flashblock icon.

  13. Re: Flash 10

    On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:44:30 -0400
    Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

    > After takin' a swig o' grog, Michael B. Trausch belched out
    > this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    > > I fail to see the creepiness factor. It's like saying "cookies are
    > > bad, let's all freak out".
    > >
    > > ...
    > >
    > > The question is, do you trust the person or company who hosts the
    > > Web site? If not, don't go there. It's really that simple. Do
    > > you know whether or not you trust the site? Well, if you don't
    > > know, then you don't trust them. Pretty simple stuff.

    >
    > Not really, since it looks like you get local-share-object files from
    > any site that has some flash working on the web pages you visit.
    >


    Right, but the point is that if you don't trust the site (for Flash or
    any other reason) then simply don't visit it. I pretty much stick to
    sites that I know when I am browsing the Web. I don't, for example,
    visit sites that are heavy on the Java usage, as an example; I don't
    trust such sites, particularly when they use Java for things that
    JavaScript could *easily* be used for (such as displaying the current
    date and time---talk about unnecessary bloat). If the site can't be
    trusted to do things efficiently and consider my needs when it comes to
    invoking (or not) a heavyweight virtual machine, why would I trust them
    when it comes to tracking (or not tracking) what I do?

    > > Flash Local Shared Objects are very useful things, just like HTTP
    > > cookies are very useful things. LSOs can be information or
    > > components of a media player application or even a temporary
    > > storage of the media you're streaming. (Though, often that media
    > > is simply placed in /tmp instead of cached in the LSO storage area.)
    > >
    > > If you want to see what is _actually_ stored there, why not check it
    > > out? You can find it in
    > > ${HOME}/.macromedia/Flash_Player/#SharedObjects/ which contains the
    > > actual files.

    >
    > http://solve.sourceforge.net/
    >
    > An SOL viewer.
    >


    Interesting. I was just cat'ing the SOL files and looking at the
    string output, though piping trough xxd is also useful if you don't
    mind looking at hex output.

    > > My sigfile ran away and is on hiatus.

    >
    > But your cookies are still around .
    >


    Indeed they are. :-)

    --
    My sigfile ran away and is on hiatus.

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
    Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

    iEYEAREDAAYFAkj42pcACgkQ0kE/IBnFmjC1aQCeOYt277jnkNdK7JhwKhPCTali
    PwMAnA/Ece0pQpiEXK7rGnnV+sxWeglH
    =8QCX
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


  14. Re: Flash 10

    "Phil Stovell" wrote:
    > Has anybody installed the flash 10 player from the Adobe site? There's a
    > .deb for Ubuntu 8.04.
    >
    > Any problems?


    I installed Flash v.10.0.12.36 in both FireFox v.3 and Opera v.9.60
    running under Ubuntu 8.04, and all work well with Flash content so far.
    I downloaded Flash from the Adobe website.

    *TimDaniels*



  15. Re: Flash 10

    On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 12:47:35 -0400, Michael B. Trausch wrote:

    > On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:28:52 -0400
    > Tony Sivori wrote:
    >
    >> Not an answer to your question, nor am I saying you shouldn't install
    >> Flash. But you should read this:
    >>
    >> http://www.imasuper.com/66/technolog...rivacy-killer/
    >>
    >>

    > I fail to see the creepiness factor. It's like saying "cookies are bad,
    > let's all freak out".


    The creepy part is that when I tell Firefox to "clear all private data" it
    does not touch this private data. And it appears that that is the way
    Adobe wanted it. And they never ever expire which is another faux pas. So
    yes, as far as I'm concerned there is the slime, creep, or ick factor,
    whatever you want to call it.

    > Anyone sufficiently gifted at writing or speech can sway people that
    > don't know the topic well enough to make a fair decision on whether
    > something is good or bad. Even today, many pieces of software will
    > scream at you in crazy ways, saying "OH NOES YOU HAVE COOKIES IN YOUR
    > BROWSER CACHE, LET'S NUKE EM". This has _got_ to be the most annoying
    > thing ever. Cookies are not intrinsically good or bad.


    I don't want many of things that cookies bring. I don't want targeted
    advertising. I don't want deep packet inspection by my ISP or anyone else.
    It is no ones' business what I read on the web, but my own.

    As far as I'm concerned, cookies that never expire and go out of the way
    to hide themselves are bad until proven innocent.

    > The question is, do you trust the person or company who hosts the Web
    > site? If not, don't go there. It's really that simple. Do you know
    > whether or not you trust the site? Well, if you don't know, then you
    > don't trust them. Pretty simple stuff.


    I disagree. There are many levels of trust. Many sites I trust to not
    intentionally do malicious things to my computer. But trusting them with
    my personally identifying info and account numbers is another matter
    entirely. I don't *fully* trust any site on the web.

    >> Still, I was stunned at the number of Flash cookies stored on my
    >> computer. The above article explains how to delete them and how to
    >> prevent them.
    >>
    >>

    > Flash Local Shared Objects are very useful things, just like HTTP
    > cookies are very useful things. LSOs can be information or components
    > of a media player application or even a temporary storage of the media
    > you're streaming. (Though, often that media is simply placed in /tmp
    > instead of cached in the LSO storage area.)
    >
    > If you want to see what is _actually_ stored there, why not check it
    > out? You can find it in
    > ${HOME}/.macromedia/Flash_Player/#SharedObjects/ which contains the
    > actual files.


    I don't have unlimited time to evaluate every controversy that comes
    along. So I'd just as soon turn off access to my computer where
    questionable third parties are involved.

    > I have nothing in my LSO area that isn't preferences or simple state
    > information. In fact, what *is* there is great because I don't have to
    > adjust settings when I go to the sites in question. This makes me
    > *very* happy.


    I'm happy for you. I'd probably be a nicer person if I were more trusting.

    --
    Tony Sivori
    Due to spam, I'm now filtering all Google Groups posters.

  16. Re: Flash 10

    [cross-posted from alt.os.linux.ubuntu]

    "Tony Sivori" wrote:
    > On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 12:47:35 -0400, Michael B. Trausch wrote:
    >
    >> On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:28:52 -0400
    >> Tony Sivori wrote:
    >>
    >>> Not an answer to your question, nor am I saying you shouldn't install
    >>> Flash. But you should read this:
    >>>
    >>> http://www.imasuper.com/66/technolog...rivacy-killer/
    >>>
    >>>

    >> I fail to see the creepiness factor. It's like saying "cookies are bad,
    >> let's all freak out".

    >
    > The creepy part is that when I tell Firefox to "clear all private data" it
    > does not touch this private data. And it appears that that is the way
    > Adobe wanted it. And they never ever expire which is another faux pas. So
    > yes, as far as I'm concerned there is the slime, creep, or ick factor,
    > whatever you want to call it.
    >
    >> Anyone sufficiently gifted at writing or speech can sway people that
    >> don't know the topic well enough to make a fair decision on whether
    >> something is good or bad. Even today, many pieces of software will
    >> scream at you in crazy ways, saying "OH NOES YOU HAVE COOKIES IN YOUR
    >> BROWSER CACHE, LET'S NUKE EM". This has _got_ to be the most annoying
    >> thing ever. Cookies are not intrinsically good or bad.

    >
    > I don't want many of things that cookies bring. I don't want targeted
    > advertising. I don't want deep packet inspection by my ISP or anyone else.
    > It is no ones' business what I read on the web, but my own.
    >
    > As far as I'm concerned, cookies that never expire and go out of the way
    > to hide themselves are bad until proven innocent.
    >
    >> The question is, do you trust the person or company who hosts the Web
    >> site? If not, don't go there. It's really that simple. Do you know
    >> whether or not you trust the site? Well, if you don't know, then you
    >> don't trust them. Pretty simple stuff.

    >
    > I disagree. There are many levels of trust. Many sites I trust to not
    > intentionally do malicious things to my computer. But trusting them with
    > my personally identifying info and account numbers is another matter
    > entirely. I don't *fully* trust any site on the web.
    >
    >>> Still, I was stunned at the number of Flash cookies stored on my
    >>> computer. The above article explains how to delete them and how to
    >>> prevent them.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> Flash Local Shared Objects are very useful things, just like HTTP
    >> cookies are very useful things. LSOs can be information or components
    >> of a media player application or even a temporary storage of the media
    >> you're streaming. (Though, often that media is simply placed in /tmp
    >> instead of cached in the LSO storage area.)
    >>
    >> If you want to see what is _actually_ stored there, why not check it
    >> out? You can find it in
    >> ${HOME}/.macromedia/Flash_Player/#SharedObjects/ which contains the
    >> actual files.

    >
    > I don't have unlimited time to evaluate every controversy that comes
    > along. So I'd just as soon turn off access to my computer where
    > questionable third parties are involved.
    >
    >> I have nothing in my LSO area that isn't preferences or simple state
    >> information. In fact, what *is* there is great because I don't have to
    >> adjust settings when I go to the sites in question. This makes me
    >> *very* happy.

    >
    > I'm happy for you. I'd probably be a nicer person if I were more trusting.
    >
    > --
    > Tony Sivori



    I checked the macromedia\Flash_Player\#Shared Objects folder,
    and there was a $hitload of folders containing folders containing folders
    of .sol files. I deleted them all, and it hasn't negatively affected the
    display of Flash content. I guess I'll have to download the Flash Settings
    Manager, too.

    *TimDaniels*



  17. Re: Flash 10

    On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 15:55:17 +0000, Bit Twister wrote:

    > On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:28:52 -0400, Tony Sivori wrote:
    >>

    >
    >
    > When I click the shortcut. it logs into browser, firefox comes up with
    > my web page. Upon exit of firefox, del_trash deletes directories like
    >
    > /bin/rm -fr $HOME/.adobe
    > /bin/rm -fr $HOME/.java
    > /bin/rm -fr $HOME/.mplayer
    > /bin/rm -fr $HOME/.macromedia
    >
    > and removes firefox's directory and installs a pristine copy.


    I actually like having some site preferences stored, such as my google
    preferences (English only, no filtering, 100 results per page, open
    results in new tab). And cookie based logins for the few web boards I read
    that require it, such as dslreports.com.

    > if [ -e firefox.tar ] ; then
    > /bin/rm -rf .mozilla
    > tar -xpvf $HOME/firefox.tar > /dev/null 2>&1
    > fi
    >
    > I do not use bookmarks.


    Heh, you're only the second person I've known to not ever bookmark
    anything. Myself, I've got bookmarks dating back to 1997 - imported from
    many OS upgrades. As for cookies, cache, and history, instead of keeping
    things absolutely pristine, I settle for the occasional housecleaning.

    > I keep urls in an ascii file, with keywords, which allows me to use a
    > script to grep for something I want. Example:
    >
    > $ urls bash doc
    > http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/...cu_chap02.html
    > ! basic shell bash doc http://gentoo-wiki.com/MAN_bash !
    > documentation http://cfaj.freeshell.org/shell ! bash
    > script tips usage doc http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/index.html !
    > bash script advanced documentation


    Is there an advantage to doing it that way?

    --
    Tony Sivori
    Due to spam, I'm now filtering all Google Groups posters.

  18. Re: Flash 10

    On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 20:04:54 -0400, Tony Sivori wrote:
    > On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 15:55:17 +0000, Bit Twister wrote:
    >>
    >> and removes firefox's directory and installs a pristine copy.

    >
    > I actually like having some site preferences stored, such as my google
    > preferences (English only, no filtering, 100 results per page, open
    > results in new tab). And cookie based logins for the few web boards I read
    > that require it, such as dslreports.com.


    No problem. I do the same for the google cookie. Then I make the tar archive.

    >
    >> I keep urls in an ascii file, with keywords, which allows me to use a
    >> script to grep for something I want. Example:
    >>
    >> $ urls bash doc
    >> http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/...cu_chap02.html
    >> ! basic shell bash doc http://gentoo-wiki.com/MAN_bash !
    >> documentation http://cfaj.freeshell.org/shell ! bash
    >> script tips usage doc http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/index.html !
    >> bash script advanced documentation

    >
    > Is there an advantage to doing it that way?


    urls file shared across several OSs, jobs, and I can have up to 6 key words
    to search with, not to mention piping result into grep -v to trim verbose results.

    You mention going back a few years.

    $ wc -l /local/doc/urls
    3083 /local/doc/urls

  19. Re: Flash 10

    On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:19:20 +0100, Phil Stovell wrote:

    > Has anybody installed the flash 10 player from the Adobe site? There's a
    > .deb for Ubuntu 8.04.
    >
    > Any problems?


    I'm using Flash 10 on Fedora. Firefox has been freezing every now and then
    since the Flash 10 update was installed. There have been other Firefox
    updates in the last couple of days but I doubt any of them is responsible
    for the problems.

  20. Re: Flash 10

    On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 19:14:55 -0400
    Tony Sivori wrote:

    > On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 12:47:35 -0400, Michael B. Trausch wrote:
    >
    > > On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:28:52 -0400
    > > Tony Sivori wrote:
    > >
    > >> Not an answer to your question, nor am I saying you shouldn't
    > >> install Flash. But you should read this:
    > >>
    > >> http://www.imasuper.com/66/technolog...rivacy-killer/
    > >>
    > >>

    > > I fail to see the creepiness factor. It's like saying "cookies are
    > > bad, let's all freak out".

    >
    > The creepy part is that when I tell Firefox to "clear all private
    > data" it does not touch this private data. And it appears that that
    > is the way Adobe wanted it. And they never ever expire which is
    > another faux pas. So yes, as far as I'm concerned there is the slime,
    > creep, or ick factor, whatever you want to call it.
    >


    But see, this is a _technical_ restriction. Should the plugin perhaps
    create a menu to clear its own data? Maybe. But the only reason such
    menu items were added was because of the entire propaganda surrounding
    cookies. Cookies store text. They can't be used for everything that
    the anti-cookie advocates claim they can be, and 90% of what people are
    afraid of is cured by having an "s" on the end of that "http" in the
    address bar.

    > > Anyone sufficiently gifted at writing or speech can sway people that
    > > don't know the topic well enough to make a fair decision on whether
    > > something is good or bad. Even today, many pieces of software will
    > > scream at you in crazy ways, saying "OH NOES YOU HAVE COOKIES IN
    > > YOUR BROWSER CACHE, LET'S NUKE EM". This has _got_ to be the most
    > > annoying thing ever. Cookies are not intrinsically good or bad.

    >
    > I don't want many of things that cookies bring. I don't want targeted
    > advertising.


    I can understand this. Blocking certain types of cookies from certain
    types of domains is a good thing. Though, I would tend to say that
    those sorts of domains (and their associated IP addresses) are things
    that would be blocked anyway. Thus, ensuring that no cookies *can* be
    stored.

    There is one service that I use that does targeted advertising based on
    statistics---that'd be Facebook. I have to say that I don't mind
    *their* targeted advertising. It seems to be quite on-target to things
    that I want. I don't buy them anyway, because I only buy things when I
    want to buy them and not because an advertisement popped up on my
    screen telling me that it is there, but still... it's far less annoying
    than seeing advertisements that I *hate*, or for products or services
    that I hate.

    > I don't want deep packet inspection by my ISP or anyone
    > else. It is no ones' business what I read on the web, but my own.


    And the server's, because that information is logged anyway on the
    server. The ISP will fail to identify what you're doing given that
    little "s"...

    >
    > As far as I'm concerned, cookies that never expire and go out of the
    > way to hide themselves are bad until proven innocent.
    >


    That is one way to look at it. Suffice it to say, I do not share that
    point of view... but then again, I do absolutely refuse to use services
    that I don't trust, so I don't give most services the opportunity to
    *become* guilty.

    > > The question is, do you trust the person or company who hosts the
    > > Web site? If not, don't go there. It's really that simple. Do
    > > you know whether or not you trust the site? Well, if you don't
    > > know, then you don't trust them. Pretty simple stuff.

    >
    > I disagree. There are many levels of trust. Many sites I trust to not
    > intentionally do malicious things to my computer. But trusting them
    > with my personally identifying info and account numbers is another
    > matter entirely. I don't *fully* trust any site on the web.
    >


    I can understand that. I don't fully trust anyone that is not myself,
    but then again, that's because I got tired of being burned a long time
    ago. I expect nothing good, everything bad, and am quite pleasantly
    surprised when I am proved wrong.

    > >> Still, I was stunned at the number of Flash cookies stored on my
    > >> computer. The above article explains how to delete them and how to
    > >> prevent them.
    > >>
    > >>

    > > Flash Local Shared Objects are very useful things, just like HTTP
    > > cookies are very useful things. LSOs can be information or
    > > components of a media player application or even a temporary
    > > storage of the media you're streaming. (Though, often that media
    > > is simply placed in /tmp instead of cached in the LSO storage area.)
    > >
    > > If you want to see what is _actually_ stored there, why not check it
    > > out? You can find it in
    > > ${HOME}/.macromedia/Flash_Player/#SharedObjects/ which contains the
    > > actual files.

    >
    > I don't have unlimited time to evaluate every controversy that comes
    > along. So I'd just as soon turn off access to my computer where
    > questionable third parties are involved.
    >


    This one I don't so much get. Possibly because I don't believe in
    making blanket statements or assumptions about anything---it is far too
    easy to fall into the trap of stereotypes and then fail to consider
    something down the road because of it.

    > > I have nothing in my LSO area that isn't preferences or simple state
    > > information. In fact, what *is* there is great because I don't
    > > have to adjust settings when I go to the sites in question. This
    > > makes me *very* happy.

    >
    > I'm happy for you. I'd probably be a nicer person if I were more
    > trusting.
    >


    I'm not exactly a trusting individual myself.

    Or... maybe I am. I trust companies to behave poorly and to treat
    customers with ill-will. I am happy when that *particular* trust is
    broken, though.

    --- Mike

    --
    My sigfile ran away and is on hiatus.

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