Will IE6 under Wine get infected? - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on Will IE6 under Wine get infected? - Ubuntu ; dennis@home wrote: > > > "AZ Nomad" wrote in message > news:slrngeae4q.gv8.aznomad.3@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net... > > >> Microsoft: the company that made e-mail dangerous. > > Dangerous? How? > Any mug can be caught by a phishing scam. > Nothing can execute ...

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Thread: Will IE6 under Wine get infected?

  1. Re: Will IE6 under Wine get infected?

    dennis@home wrote:

    >
    >
    > "AZ Nomad" wrote in message
    > news:slrngeae4q.gv8.aznomad.3@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net...
    >
    >
    >> Microsoft: the company that made e-mail dangerous.

    >
    > Dangerous? How?
    > Any mug can be caught by a phishing scam.
    > Nothing can execute from email if you only read plain text.
    > I don't think M$ invented html either.


    Don't try to portray yourself as even dumber than you are, MD5-dennis.
    There have been a *lot* of email attacks on OE in the past.
    And since windows users are actually dumb enough to enable html mail, they
    will not even notice when their system is being owned
    --
    Microsoft's Guide To System Design:
    It could be worse, but it'll take time.


  2. Re: Will IE6 under Wine get infected?

    dennis@home wrote:
    >
    >
    > "AZ Nomad" wrote in message
    > news:slrngeae4q.gv8.aznomad.3@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net...
    >
    >
    >> Microsoft: the company that made e-mail dangerous.

    >
    > Dangerous? How?
    > Any mug can be caught by a phishing scam.
    > Nothing can execute from email if you only read plain text.
    > I don't think M$ invented html either.

    M$ had nothing to do with HTML since it is a sub-set of SGML that was
    done way before M$ even even existed.
    XML is described 'roughly' as a 'superset' of HTML or a 'subset' of SGML.
    There is a lot of history to be found if anyone wants to dig around.

    As for phishing scams, all you have to do is look at the HTML code and
    look for a redirect that happens to be a foreign country, before even
    thinking about opening it.

    Some are so obvious and with the bad English (a sure tip off) that I
    wind up laughing at the lame attempt.
    Unfortunately, some people will click on the bad mail.
    Bill Baka

  3. Re: Will IE6 under Wine get infected?

    On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 23:57:19 +0200, Peter KŲhlmann wrote:
    >dennis@home wrote:


    >>
    >>
    >> "AZ Nomad" wrote in message
    >> news:slrngeae4q.gv8.aznomad.3@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net...
    >>
    >>
    >>> Microsoft: the company that made e-mail dangerous.

    >>
    >> Dangerous? How?
    >> Any mug can be caught by a phishing scam.
    >> Nothing can execute from email if you only read plain text.
    >> I don't think M$ invented html either.


    >Don't try to portray yourself as even dumber than you are, MD5-dennis.
    >There have been a *lot* of email attacks on OE in the past.
    >And since windows users are actually dumb enough to enable html mail, they
    >will not even notice when their system is being owned


    Worse than that, O/OE being a microsoft application thinks the world
    is one big happy family and will hapily execute software from unknown
    sources just so you can have your bouncing bunny rabbits parading
    through your email messages.

    If it were just a message without an executed component, there'd be no
    danger. That's how it was until microsoft made email dangerous.

  4. Re: Will IE6 under Wine get infected?

    On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 17:40:21 -0500, AZ Nomad wrote:
    >On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 23:57:19 +0200, Peter KŲhlmann wrote:
    >>dennis@home wrote:


    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "AZ Nomad" wrote in message
    >>> news:slrngeae4q.gv8.aznomad.3@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Microsoft: the company that made e-mail dangerous.
    >>>
    >>> Dangerous? How?
    >>> Any mug can be caught by a phishing scam.
    >>> Nothing can execute from email if you only read plain text.
    >>> I don't think M$ invented html either.


    >>Don't try to portray yourself as even dumber than you are, MD5-dennis.
    >>There have been a *lot* of email attacks on OE in the past.
    >>And since windows users are actually dumb enough to enable html mail, they
    >>will not even notice when their system is being owned


    >Worse than that, O/OE being a microsoft application thinks the world
    >is one big happy family and will hapily execute software from unknown
    >sources just so you can have your bouncing bunny rabbits parading
    >through your email messages.


    >If it were just a message without an executed component, there'd be no
    >danger. That's how it was until microsoft made email dangerous.


    and of course, the standard windows user runs their email and web
    clients as admin so that no part of the system is safe.


  5. Re: Will IE6 under Wine get infected?

    Bill Baka wrote:

    > dennis@home wrote:
    >> "AZ Nomad" wrote:
    >>> Microsoft: the company that made e-mail dangerous.

    >>
    >> Dangerous? How?
    >> Any mug can be caught by a phishing scam.
    >> Nothing can execute from email if you only read plain text.
    >> I don't think M$ invented html either.

    > M$ had nothing to do with HTML since it is a sub-set of SGML that was
    > done way before M$ even even existed.


    Didn't Microsloth 'invent' email clients using HTML? Outhouse Distress
    4.0?

    I don't remember seeing HTML email prior to Windows 95.

    --
    -bts
    -Friends don't let friends drive Windows

  6. Re: Will IE6 under Wine get infected?

    Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
    > Bill Baka wrote:
    >
    >
    >> M$ had nothing to do with HTML since it is a sub-set of SGML that was
    >> done way before M$ even even existed.
    >>

    >
    > Didn't Microsloth 'invent' email clients using HTML? Outhouse Distress
    > 4.0?
    >
    > I don't remember seeing HTML email prior to Windows 95.
    >
    >

    Standard Graphics Markup Language!
    Remember the Internet itself started life as a DARPA project and since
    it was first connected to universities, (maybe even before) it had to
    have a way to communicate.
    M$ did not invent everything, even if they would be happy if people
    thought that.
    Bill Baka

  7. Re: Will IE6 under Wine get infected?

    SINNER wrote:

    > * dennis@home wrote in alt.os.linux.ubuntu:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> "SINNER" wrote in message
    >> news:Xns9B2B93B74A868louiscypherhellorg@140.99.99. 130...
    >>> * dennis@home wrote in alt.os.linux.ubuntu:
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> "Christopher Hunter" wrote in message
    >>>> news:6kh0htF7qo4oU1@mid.individual.net...
    >>>>> dennis@home wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> So they didn't know what they were doing and screwed it up.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> No. It was a malicious external attack. Windows (particularly
    >>>>> Vista) is susceptible to those!
    >>>>
    >>>> No it isn't, and any properly designed system wouldn't have been
    >>>> externally accessible.
    >>>
    >>> Sorry, thats a pipe dream. In some instances you need a machine that
    >>> is not
    >>> behind a firewall. VPN software is notoriously picky in this fashion.
    >>> I have 2 customers in particular that required me to connect to their
    >>> network
    >>> over a VPN and if I use a machine behind my firewall, I am unable to
    >>> connect.

    >>
    >> Get a better firewall then.

    >
    > I cant 'get a better firewall' The one I have is fine, the company (mine)
    > isnt willing to make concessions and weaken the firewall for one
    > customer.
    >
    >> If you don't have a firewall that you can configure to work you will
    >> just have to put /a/ machine on the other side of it.
    >> It still doesn't expose the network to any external threat.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > No, the network (mine) is not exposed, but the machine is and in the
    > grand scheme of things, that's all that matters as I am now connecting,
    > over a VPN to a foreign network and exposing thier network to whatever
    > this single machine, may have caught.


    There's little point in arguing with "Dennis" - he's a pointy-haired boss
    type, with no real idea of how business is really done these days. He's
    some kind of MS shill that just tries to annoy. He has nothing useful to
    say (other than confirming his ignorance and bias) and is probably best
    consigned to your bozo-bin.

    C.

  8. Re: Will IE6 under Wine get infected?

    Peter Köhlmann wrote:

    > Don't try to portray yourself as even dumber than you are, MD5-dennis.
    > There have been a *lot* of email attacks on OE in the past.
    > And since windows users are actually dumb enough to enable html mail, they
    > will not even notice when their system is being owned


    Worse yet, MS have a browser that's susceptible to /every/ little piece of
    malicious software embedded into web pages. Dennis' "solution" would be
    either not to visit those sites (you're incompetent if you don't know which
    ones they are) or to configure Windows better (because /nothing/ can be the
    fault of Microsoft - it's just administrator and user incompetence).

    Dennis /still/ hasn't demonstrated his supposed flaw in MD5...

    C.
    C.

  9. Re: Will IE6 under Wine get infected?

    Bill Baka wrote:

    > M$ did not invent everything, even if they would be happy if people
    > thought that.


    Actually, MS really didn't invent anything at all. The technologies that
    they incompetently abuse were either bought in or stolen from elsewhere.
    We all remember "Stacker" (for example) and other applications that were
    suborned into Windows, often illegally.

    C.

  10. Re: Will IE6 under Wine get infected?

    Bill Baka wrote:

    > Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
    >> Bill Baka wrote:
    >>> M$ had nothing to do with HTML since it is a sub-set of SGML that
    >>> was done way before M$ even even existed.

    >>
    >> Didn't Microsloth 'invent' email clients using HTML? Outhouse
    >> Distress 4.0?
    >>
    >> I don't remember seeing HTML email prior to Windows 95.
    >>

    > Standard Graphics Markup Language!
    > Remember the Internet itself started life as a DARPA project and since
    > it was first connected to universities, (maybe even before) it had to
    > have a way to communicate. M$ did not invent everything, even if they
    > would be happy if people thought that.


    Yes, I know all that; I'm older than you are. My point was, that the MS
    email client Outhouse Distress was the first email client to allow users
    to send mail in HTML format, thus forever bloating email servers and
    hard drives.

    Which is why I put the quote marks around the word 'invent'.

    --
    -bts
    -Friends don't let friends drive Windows

  11. Re: Will IE6 under Wine get infected?



    "Christopher Hunter" wrote in message
    news:6kl54gF8fplbU3@mid.individual.net...
    > Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >
    >> Don't try to portray yourself as even dumber than you are, MD5-dennis.
    >> There have been a *lot* of email attacks on OE in the past.
    >> And since windows users are actually dumb enough to enable html mail,
    >> they
    >> will not even notice when their system is being owned

    >
    > Worse yet, MS have a browser that's susceptible to /every/ little piece of
    > malicious software embedded into web pages. Dennis' "solution" would be
    > either not to visit those sites (you're incompetent if you don't know
    > which
    > ones they are) or to configure Windows better (because /nothing/ can be
    > the
    > fault of Microsoft - it's just administrator and user incompetence).


    Funny how so many people can browse the internet quite safely using IE even
    though you can't quite manage it.

    I don't think its user error if someone gets infected, I do think its user
    error if they get infected because they don't know what they are doing.

    All browsers and OSes have security holes its only stupid people that think
    they don't.
    Did you check for exploits after all the affected machines on the internet
    regenerated their keys BTW?
    Did they all regenerate their keys?
    Do you check before you use one?
    You do understand that the patch released didn't fix the security problem,
    it only stopped a repeat (maybe, it was the second time it had been
    patched).
    Somehow I doubt that you have a clue, you didn't when it was being talked
    about and I doubt if you do now.

    >
    > Dennis /still/ hasn't demonstrated his supposed flaw in MD5...


    I did demonstrate the flaw (well I posted proof that someone else had), you
    haven't provided any proof that it is safe despite the flaw, not one iota.
    All you managed is to post opinion that it was safe without once being able
    to even post the maths about how it was supposed to work let alone how it
    does work with the flaw present.

    You can bring it up as often as you like, you are the one that is wrong and
    until you provide proof I was wrong you will not make any difference to the
    facts.
    All it does is prove that you lie about everything you claim to know.


  12. Re: Will IE6 under Wine get infected?

    dennis@home wrote:

    >
    >
    > "Christopher Hunter" wrote in message
    > news:6kl54gF8fplbU3@mid.individual.net...
    >> Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >>
    >>> Don't try to portray yourself as even dumber than you are, MD5-dennis.
    >>> There have been a *lot* of email attacks on OE in the past.
    >>> And since windows users are actually dumb enough to enable html mail,
    >>> they
    >>> will not even notice when their system is being owned

    >>
    >> Worse yet, MS have a browser that's susceptible to /every/ little piece
    >> of
    >> malicious software embedded into web pages. Dennis' "solution" would be
    >> either not to visit those sites (you're incompetent if you don't know
    >> which
    >> ones they are) or to configure Windows better (because /nothing/ can be
    >> the
    >> fault of Microsoft - it's just administrator and user incompetence).

    >
    > Funny how so many people can browse the internet quite safely using IE
    > even though you can't quite manage it.
    >
    > I don't think its user error if someone gets infected, I do think its user
    > error if they get infected because they don't know what they are doing.


    So pray tell, how do you avoid the sites which will infect your machine by
    simply visiting them?
    I always marvel at those windows types with the psychic powers who know
    *before* they click a link that they have to avoid it

    < snip >

    >>
    >> Dennis /still/ hasn't demonstrated his supposed flaw in MD5...

    >
    > I did demonstrate the flaw (well I posted proof that someone else had),


    Nope. You posted proof that you are not smart enough to understand it

    < snip more MD5-dennis garbage >
    --
    The Day Microsoft makes something that does not suck is probably
    the day they start making vacuum cleaners.


  13. Re: Will IE6 under Wine get infected?

    Peter Köhlmann wrote:

    > So pray tell, how do you avoid the sites which will infect your machine by
    > simply visiting them?
    > I always marvel at those windows types with the psychic powers who know
    > *before* they click a link that they have to avoid it


    Didn't you know? Dennis' version of Windows is equipped with the prescience
    module - it's shipped as part of the special "Friends of Bill" version
    that's not available to the general public, but never catches viruses,
    never crashes, and works flawlessly with /every/ piece of hardware ever
    invented.

    >>> Dennis /still/ hasn't demonstrated his supposed flaw in MD5...

    >>
    >> I did demonstrate the flaw (well I posted proof that someone else had),

    >
    > Nope. You posted proof that you are not smart enough to understand it


    Peter, you may as well just *plonk* the wanker, unless you want to wind him
    up a bit more. I can't be bothered - I've got a *big* network to configure
    now.

    C.


  14. Re: Will IE6 under Wine get infected?

    dennis@home wrote:

    > While you are chucking blame about don't forget


    ...because I was only commenting on one subject. This is getting OT.

    > Netscape and their "live script" which was what made browsers prone to
    > attack. Why did Netscape rename live script to java script anyway, it
    > had nothing to do with Java.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript
    "JavaScript was originally developed by Brendan Eich of Netscape under
    the name Mocha, which was later renamed to LiveScript, and finally to
    JavaScript. "

    Please note they are one-word names [with capital S in the middle],
    thanks.

    > Maybe some people think it was M$ that started the browser wars by
    > adding none standard junk to browsers?


    It takes two sides to have a war. Let's blame them both.

    --
    -bts
    -I'll have a medium half-caf mocha latte, please

  15. Re: Will IE6 under Wine get infected?

    On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 08:54:19 +0000, Christopher Hunter wrote:

    > dennis@home wrote:
    >
    >> I did demonstrate the flaw (well I posted proof that someone else had),

    >
    > No you didn't. Total BS as usual. **** off back to your useless
    > Windows, and leave the grown-ups alone.
    >
    > *PLONK*


    Can you post the proof for me, as I don't remember reading it before. I
    will be impartial, and tell you two who is right, then we can eliminate
    this part of the flame war, and get on to better arguments.


  16. Re: Will IE6 under Wine get infected?

    jellybean stonerfish wrote:

    > On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 08:54:19 +0000, Christopher Hunter wrote:
    >
    >> dennis@home wrote:
    >>
    >>> I did demonstrate the flaw (well I posted proof that someone else had),

    >>
    >> No you didn't. Total BS as usual. **** off back to your useless
    >> Windows, and leave the grown-ups alone.
    >>
    >> *PLONK*

    >
    > Can you post the proof for me, as I don't remember reading it before. I
    > will be impartial, and tell you two who is right, then we can eliminate
    > this part of the flame war, and get on to better arguments.


    Search it yourself.
    The theme has been discussed several times, as MD5-dennis is unable to
    understand the difference between a "collision attack" and a "pre image
    attack"
    Hence his "problem" of showing what kind of incompetent nincompoop he is
    --
    Tact, n.:
    The unsaid part of what you're thinking.


  17. Re: Will IE6 under Wine get infected?

    On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:44:47 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

    > jellybean stonerfish wrote:
    >
    >> On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 08:54:19 +0000, Christopher Hunter wrote:
    >>
    >>> dennis@home wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I did demonstrate the flaw (well I posted proof that someone else
    >>>> had),
    >>>
    >>> No you didn't. Total BS as usual. **** off back to your useless
    >>> Windows, and leave the grown-ups alone.
    >>>
    >>> *PLONK*

    >>
    >> Can you post the proof for me, as I don't remember reading it before.
    >> I will be impartial, and tell you two who is right, then we can
    >> eliminate this part of the flame war, and get on to better arguments.

    >
    > Search it yourself.
    > The theme has been discussed several times, as MD5-dennis is unable to
    > understand the difference between a "collision attack" and a "pre image
    > attack"
    > Hence his "problem" of showing what kind of incompetent nincompoop he is


    My understanding is that more than one file can generate the same MD5
    sum. But to make subtle changes to a file, and have it still generate
    the same MD5 sum is close to impossible. I may not understand MD5 flaws,
    but my understanding and ability to find the answer is not the issue
    here. Christopher and Dennis are arguing about if Dennis posted proof of
    an md5 flaw. I want to see Dennis' proof so I can decide for myself if
    he has posted a proof.

    stonerfish



  18. Re: Will IE6 under Wine get infected?

    Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
    > Bill Baka wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> Standard Graphics Markup Language!
    >> Remember the Internet itself started life as a DARPA project and since
    >> it was first connected to universities, (maybe even before) it had to
    >> have a way to communicate. M$ did not invent everything, even if they
    >> would be happy if people thought that.
    >>

    >
    > Yes, I know all that; I'm older than you are. My point was, that the MS
    > email client Outhouse Distress was the first email client to allow users
    > to send mail in HTML format, thus forever bloating email servers and
    > hard drives.
    >
    > Which is why I put the quote marks around the word 'invent'.
    >
    >

    Older than me? Cheers then.
    I also didn't know about the early OE since I cut my teeth on Netscape.
    I went through the stacker routine too, and Qemm.
    Anything but M$, even back in the early 90's.
    Bill Baka

  19. Re: Will IE6 under Wine get infected?

    On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:16:53 GMT, jellybean stonerfish wrote:
    >On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:44:47 +0200, Peter KŲhlmann wrote:


    >> jellybean stonerfish wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 08:54:19 +0000, Christopher Hunter wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> dennis@home wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> I did demonstrate the flaw (well I posted proof that someone else
    >>>>> had),
    >>>>
    >>>> No you didn't. Total BS as usual. **** off back to your useless
    >>>> Windows, and leave the grown-ups alone.
    >>>>
    >>>> *PLONK*
    >>>
    >>> Can you post the proof for me, as I don't remember reading it before.
    >>> I will be impartial, and tell you two who is right, then we can
    >>> eliminate this part of the flame war, and get on to better arguments.

    >>
    >> Search it yourself.
    >> The theme has been discussed several times, as MD5-dennis is unable to
    >> understand the difference between a "collision attack" and a "pre image
    >> attack"
    >> Hence his "problem" of showing what kind of incompetent nincompoop he is


    > My understanding is that more than one file can generate the same MD5
    >sum. But to make subtle changes to a file, and have it still generate
    >the same MD5 sum is close to impossible. I may not understand MD5 flaws,
    >but my understanding and ability to find the answer is not the issue
    >here. Christopher and Dennis are arguing about if Dennis posted proof of
    >an md5 flaw. I want to see Dennis' proof so I can decide for myself if
    >he has posted a proof.


    >stonerfish



    That will *never* happen. Denis is too much of a lazy ****head and coward.

  20. Re: Will IE6 under Wine get infected?

    * jellybean stonerfish wrote in alt.os.linux.ubuntu:

    > On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:44:47 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >
    >> jellybean stonerfish wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 08:54:19 +0000, Christopher Hunter wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> dennis@home wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> I did demonstrate the flaw (well I posted proof that someone else
    >>>>> had),
    >>>>
    >>>> No you didn't. Total BS as usual. **** off back to your useless
    >>>> Windows, and leave the grown-ups alone.
    >>>>
    >>>> *PLONK*
    >>>
    >>> Can you post the proof for me, as I don't remember reading it
    >>> before. I will be impartial, and tell you two who is right, then we
    >>> can eliminate this part of the flame war, and get on to better
    >>> arguments.

    >>
    >> Search it yourself.
    >> The theme has been discussed several times, as MD5-dennis is unable
    >> to understand the difference between a "collision attack" and a "pre
    >> image attack"
    >> Hence his "problem" of showing what kind of incompetent nincompoop he
    >> is

    >
    > My understanding is that more than one file can generate the same
    > MD5
    > sum. But to make subtle changes to a file, and have it still generate
    > the same MD5 sum is close to impossible. I may not understand MD5
    > flaws, but my understanding and ability to find the answer is not the
    > issue here. Christopher and Dennis are arguing about if Dennis posted
    > proof of an md5 flaw. I want to see Dennis' proof so I can decide for
    > myself if he has posted a proof.
    >
    > stonerfish
    >


    Here is the MID that started the ~560 post thread

    Message-ID:

    The MD5 discussion is pretty deep, but its there. I dont claim that there
    is any proof one way or the other, but there you have it.

    The title of the tread is Internet Speed.

    --
    David

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