Ubuntu PPC - PLEASE HELP! - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on Ubuntu PPC - PLEASE HELP! - Ubuntu ; I'm nearly at my wits end in trying to install either ubuntu/kubuntu or xubuntu on my iMac (alternate install versions). It's an iMac DV the standard of the DV models (400mhz, dvd-rom, 256MB RAM, 40GB Harddisk (ram and harddisk both ...

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Thread: Ubuntu PPC - PLEASE HELP!

  1. Ubuntu PPC - PLEASE HELP!

    I'm nearly at my wits end in trying to install either ubuntu/kubuntu or
    xubuntu on my iMac (alternate install versions). It's an iMac DV the
    standard of the DV models (400mhz, dvd-rom, 256MB RAM, 40GB Harddisk (ram
    and harddisk both upgrades)).

    Please help!

    In the past i've installed ubuntu on it, put the disc in the drive, it
    installed and i used it! I recently swapped the drive from 13GB to 40GB and
    since I can't install anything properly! Generally some error is reported
    during installation and it forces me to skip leaving it incomplete.

    So the question is is this just where they stopped supporting ppc is there
    something wrong with my system?

    I know there's not much to go on with this but if i can at least be
    reassured that it's just not errors in the distributions.

    thanks



  2. Re: Ubuntu PPC - PLEASE HELP!

    On 2008-07-31, number6 wrote:
    > I'm nearly at my wits end in trying to install either ubuntu/kubuntu or
    > xubuntu on my iMac (alternate install versions). It's an iMac DV the
    > standard of the DV models (400mhz, dvd-rom, 256MB RAM, 40GB Harddisk (ram
    > and harddisk both upgrades)).
    >
    > Please help!
    >
    > In the past i've installed ubuntu on it, put the disc in the drive, it
    > installed and i used it! I recently swapped the drive from 13GB to 40GB and
    > since I can't install anything properly! Generally some error is reported
    > during installation and it forces me to skip leaving it incomplete.
    >
    > So the question is is this just where they stopped supporting ppc is there
    > something wrong with my system?
    >
    > I know there's not much to go on with this but if i can at least be
    > reassured that it's just not errors in the distributions.
    >


    What is the error that is reported??
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    to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
    from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
    more readers you will need to find a different means of
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  3. Re: Ubuntu PPC - PLEASE HELP!

    number6 wrote:
    > I'm nearly at my wits end in trying to install either ubuntu/kubuntu or
    > xubuntu on my iMac (alternate install versions). It's an iMac DV the
    > standard of the DV models (400mhz, dvd-rom, 256MB RAM, 40GB Harddisk (ram
    > and harddisk both upgrades)).
    >
    > Please help!


    With what, exactly?

    I have the same iMac and the last time I played with PPC Ubuntu was
    Breezy (5.10). Worked off a live CD fine. I just had to play with the
    refresh rates in Xorg.conf, everything from that point was great.

    > In the past i've installed ubuntu on it, put the disc in the drive, it
    > installed and i used it! I recently swapped the drive from 13GB to 40GB and
    > since I can't install anything properly! Generally some error is reported
    > during installation and it forces me to skip leaving it incomplete.


    "Some error", eh?

    > So the question is is this just where they stopped supporting ppc is there
    > something wrong with my system?


    How should *we* know if there's something wrong with *your* system?

    > I know there's not much to go on with this but if i can at least be
    > reassured that it's just not errors in the distributions.


    Depends on the distribution. Have you tried Yellowdog Linux? They
    specifically support PPC.
    http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ydl/

    --
    As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be
    glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
    and this we should do freely and generously.
    --Benjamin Franklin

  4. Re: Ubuntu PPC - PLEASE HELP!


    "johnny bobby bee" wrote in message
    news:Yvskk.3018$%b7.1369@edtnps82...
    > number6 wrote:
    > > I'm nearly at my wits end in trying to install either ubuntu/kubuntu or
    > > xubuntu on my iMac (alternate install versions). It's an iMac DV the
    > > standard of the DV models (400mhz, dvd-rom, 256MB RAM, 40GB Harddisk

    (ram
    > > and harddisk both upgrades)).
    > >
    > > Please help!

    >
    > With what, exactly?


    With that which is taking me ti theend of my wits: the installation (as
    above)



    > I have the same iMac and the last time I played with PPC Ubuntu was
    > Breezy (5.10). Worked off a live CD fine. I just had to play with the
    > refresh rates in Xorg.conf, everything from that point was great.


    I can get the very latest to run, albeit slowly, from the live CD.
    Installation from said live CD is an impossibility tho as it seems is the
    installation from the "alternate"CDs.

    >
    > > In the past i've installed ubuntu on it, put the disc in the drive, it
    > > installed and i used it! I recently swapped the drive from 13GB to 40GB

    and
    > > since I can't install anything properly! Generally some error is

    reported
    > > during installation and it forces me to skip leaving it incomplete.

    >
    > "Some error", eh?



    Yeah, yeah, ok! The fact is the error is generally different the 10 or so
    installs i've tried but its always been:
    "A stage of the install has failed:"failed stage here""

    That's all, no output or anything. It's supposed to be a windows like
    installation so doesn;t output console gibberish.


    > > So the question is is this just where they stopped supporting ppc is

    there
    > > something wrong with my system?

    >
    > How should *we* know if there's something wrong with *your* system?


    Process of elimination!!! The implication, tho clearly not the inference to
    be made was: Is this type of failure typical of peoples attempts to install
    i.e. is the distro at fault? and so if not i guess it must be my machine.
    Plus, was wondering if the 40GB drive, not native to the system would make a
    difference although from what i've read it's well within the supported
    range.



    > > I know there's not much to go on with this but if i can at least be
    > > reassured that it's just not errors in the distributions.

    >
    > Depends on the distribution. Have you tried Yellowdog Linux? They
    > specifically support PPC.
    > http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ydl/
    >


    Ubuntu forum so was speaking in terms of ubuntu flavours first and foremost.
    I've tried YDL in the past but found ubuntu to work better at the time tho i
    may have to reconsider now.


    > --
    > As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be
    > glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
    > and this we should do freely and generously.
    > --Benjamin Franklin



    Further suggestions please?



  5. Re: Ubuntu PPC - PLEASE HELP!

    number6 wrote:
    > I'm nearly at my wits end in trying to install either ubuntu/kubuntu or
    > xubuntu on my iMac (alternate install versions). It's an iMac DV the
    > standard of the DV models (400mhz, dvd-rom, 256MB RAM, 40GB Harddisk (ram
    > and harddisk both upgrades)).
    >
    > Please help!
    >
    > In the past i've installed ubuntu on it, put the disc in the drive, it
    > installed and i used it! I recently swapped the drive from 13GB to 40GB and
    > since I can't install anything properly! Generally some error is reported
    > during installation and it forces me to skip leaving it incomplete.
    >
    > So the question is is this just where they stopped supporting ppc is there
    > something wrong with my system?
    >
    > I know there's not much to go on with this but if i can at least be
    > reassured that it's just not errors in the distributions.
    >
    > thanks
    >
    >

    I managed to get 6.04 to install nicely from the alternate CDs. If I
    tried the next version up or if I upgraded (as opposed to updated) the
    whole thing would break. It seems development stopped somewhere around
    that point.

    Later
    Mike


  6. Re: Ubuntu PPC - PLEASE HELP!

    The Wizard of Oz wrote:
    > number6 wrote:
    >> I'm nearly at my wits end in trying to install either ubuntu/kubuntu or
    >> xubuntu on my iMac (alternate install versions). It's an iMac DV the
    >> standard of the DV models (400mhz, dvd-rom, 256MB RAM, 40GB Harddisk
    >> (ram
    >> and harddisk both upgrades)).
    >>
    >> Please help!
    >>
    >> In the past i've installed ubuntu on it, put the disc in the drive, it
    >> installed and i used it! I recently swapped the drive from 13GB to
    >> 40GB and
    >> since I can't install anything properly! Generally some error is
    >> reported
    >> during installation and it forces me to skip leaving it incomplete.
    >>
    >> So the question is is this just where they stopped supporting ppc is
    >> there
    >> something wrong with my system?
    >>
    >> I know there's not much to go on with this but if i can at least be
    >> reassured that it's just not errors in the distributions.
    >>
    >> thanks
    >>
    >>

    > I managed to get 6.04 to install nicely from the alternate CDs. If
    > I tried the next version up or if I upgraded (as opposed to updated)
    > the whole thing would break. It seems development stopped somewhere
    > around that point.
    >
    > Later
    > Mike



    I don't think so, Mike. I've successfully upgraded from Dapper to Hardy
    without any issues. My upgrade media and/or download is identical to
    what everybody else has. The development is not the problem.

    However I did upgrade from a "normal" i386 install and not an Alternate
    CD install. You must realize you took a non-standard route for
    installation. Not worse, but not what the masses do/did. ;-)

    I have never upgraded a Dapper to Edgy though. That would be kinda
    counter-productive, like "downgrading" an LTS to a non-LTS release. My
    Edgy install was from the i386 CD, and hasn't been upgraded. It was for
    evaluation only (or useful when helping someone).

    My two Feisty installs were also from their i386 CD. Again, they just
    sit because they were for evaluation and having the same release, making
    helping others more accurate.

    I did not mess with Gutsy at all. IIRC that era was occupied by Etch
    upgrades from Sarge, and new Etch installs, plus a Red Hat 5.2 install
    on an old 486SLC-33 with 16 MB of RAM, which took some doing. ;-)


    --
    John

    No Microsoft, Apple, AT&T, Intel, Novell, Trend Micro, nor Ford products were used in the preparation or transmission of this message.

    The EULA sounds like it was written by a team of lawyers who want to tell me what I can't do. The GPL sounds like it was written by a human being, who wants me to know what I can do.

  7. Re: Ubuntu PPC - PLEASE HELP!

    John F. Morse wrote:
    > The Wizard of Oz wrote:
    >> number6 wrote:
    >>> I'm nearly at my wits end in trying to install either ubuntu/kubuntu or
    >>> xubuntu on my iMac (alternate install versions). It's an iMac DV the
    >>> standard of the DV models (400mhz, dvd-rom, 256MB RAM, 40GB Harddisk
    >>> (ram
    >>> and harddisk both upgrades)).
    >>>
    >>> Please help!
    >>>
    >>> In the past i've installed ubuntu on it, put the disc in the drive, it
    >>> installed and i used it! I recently swapped the drive from 13GB to
    >>> 40GB and
    >>> since I can't install anything properly! Generally some error is
    >>> reported
    >>> during installation and it forces me to skip leaving it incomplete.
    >>>
    >>> So the question is is this just where they stopped supporting ppc is
    >>> there
    >>> something wrong with my system?
    >>>
    >>> I know there's not much to go on with this but if i can at least be
    >>> reassured that it's just not errors in the distributions.
    >>>
    >>> thanks
    >>>
    >>>

    >> I managed to get 6.04 to install nicely from the alternate CDs. If
    >> I tried the next version up or if I upgraded (as opposed to updated)
    >> the whole thing would break. It seems development stopped somewhere
    >> around that point.
    >>
    >> Later
    >> Mike

    >
    >
    > I don't think so, Mike. I've successfully upgraded from Dapper to Hardy
    > without any issues. My upgrade media and/or download is identical to
    > what everybody else has. The development is not the problem.
    >
    > However I did upgrade from a "normal" i386 install and not an Alternate
    > CD install. You must realize you took a non-standard route for
    > installation. Not worse, but not what the masses do/did. ;-)


    Good point. I did install Dapper and Edgy with a brief stopover with
    Feisty on my PC. However the OP wanted info on the PPC (a processor
    largely used in Macs) version. It's a different story there.

    The Mac hardware older than a certain point won't accept anything other
    than the classic System Software. Anything which can run OS X can run
    other *NIX operating systems. Given the problems people are having
    "liberating" those Macs from proprietary software, it's a tougher choice
    than you'd expect. Now Apple has switched to an Intel architecture, it
    is easier to install an Intel based *NIX. I find running it in an
    emulator such as Parallels or VirtualBox is really easy.

    As to the choice to use the Alternate CD on the PPC iMac... I tried the
    Standard CD first and it didn't work. YMMV.

    Later
    Mike

  8. Re: Ubuntu PPC - PLEASE HELP!

    The Wizard of Oz wrote:

    > Good point. I did install Dapper and Edgy with a brief stopover
    > with Feisty on my PC. However the OP wanted info on the PPC (a
    > processor largely used in Macs) version. It's a different story there.
    >
    > The Mac hardware older than a certain point won't accept anything
    > other than the classic System Software. Anything which can run OS X
    > can run other *NIX operating systems. Given the problems people are
    > having "liberating" those Macs from proprietary software, it's a
    > tougher choice than you'd expect. Now Apple has switched to an Intel
    > architecture, it is easier to install an Intel based *NIX. I find
    > running it in an emulator such as Parallels or VirtualBox is really easy.
    >
    > As to the choice to use the Alternate CD on the PPC iMac... I
    > tried the Standard CD first and it didn't work. YMMV.
    >
    > Later
    > Mike



    I'm well-acquainted with Macs. I have 14 Macs here, from the Mac Plus I
    purchased in 1987, up to the 1997 PowerMac 8600/200, all running OS
    9.0.4, 8.6 or 7.6.1. Prior to the Macs, it was Apple ][ from 1978,
    progressing through the Apple ][+ and a couple of Apple //e computers.
    Thirty years of Apple's under my belt, and many thousands of dollars! ;-)

    My "newest" is a 350 MHz G3 iMac (Slot Loading). I might turn on this
    iMac once every two or three months for something, usually as a testing
    terminal to connect to one of my servers from an "outside line" since it
    has a different WAN IP, router, etc.

    Over the years I have booted several PPC GNU/ Linux LiveCDs on this iMac
    without problems, other than the well-documented video configuration
    edit. The latest is Xubuntu 8.04 PPC which works fine as a LiveCD.

    However I have not installed any GNU/Linux, BSD, etc. to this iMac's
    hard drive, so I can't say if that is the problem area.

    Also, I wasn't aware there was an Alternate CD for the PPC platform (not
    the PPC 601, 603, 604, but the G3 PPC750, G4 PPC74xx, and G5 PPC970).

    A G3 is the minimum necessary to run OS-X or an OS other than Apple's
    OS. The old PPC60x CPUs cannot run OS-X, but there are distros for those
    architectures, including the 68000 CPU, which I've also tried (a
    MacPlus, and a 68030 in a Mac IIci and Mac IIsi).

    I have a PowerMac 6100 (60 MHz PPC 601 CPU) which contains a Sonnet PPC
    750 G3 225 MHz CPU card. It won't run Linux, etc., because the Sonnet
    card's "drivers" are loaded as extensions (INITs) and/or control
    panels(CDEVs), under Mac OS 8.6. You cannot boot the G3 Sonnet card
    directly, therefore no OS-X is possible.

    The Alternate CD should work for the Intel Macs, since they don't
    contain a PPC CPU but an 80x86 architecture CPU.

    For once Apple has opened their computers up to the rest of the world,
    instead of being so self-centered and snobby. A few years too late for
    me to remain with them though. I moved to Wintel in 1997 for better
    connectivity and speed. GNU/Linux followed soon afterward, and the
    MacFarm here just gathers dust. ;-)

    Oh, there is one PowerMac 8500/120 still humming away in the basement
    24/7/365, running a mail server for the past eight years. I pay it no
    attention, and it doesn't bother me. Its days are numbered though, as I
    now have Postfix and Dovecot running on an old AMD-K6 266 MHz under
    Ubuntu 8.04 Server Edition. It will easily outperform the 120 MHz PowerMac.


    --
    John

    No Microsoft, Apple, AT&T, Intel, Novell, Trend Micro, nor Ford products were used in the preparation or transmission of this message.

    The EULA sounds like it was written by a team of lawyers who want to tell me what I can't do. The GPL sounds like it was written by a human being, who wants me to know what I can do.

  9. Re: Ubuntu PPC - PLEASE HELP!

    John F. Morse wrote:
    > The Wizard of Oz wrote:
    >
    >> Good point. I did install Dapper and Edgy with a brief stopover
    >> with Feisty on my PC. However the OP wanted info on the PPC (a
    >> processor largely used in Macs) version. It's a different story there.
    >>
    >> The Mac hardware older than a certain point won't accept anything
    >> other than the classic System Software. Anything which can run OS X
    >> can run other *NIX operating systems. Given the problems people are
    >> having "liberating" those Macs from proprietary software, it's a
    >> tougher choice than you'd expect. Now Apple has switched to an Intel
    >> architecture, it is easier to install an Intel based *NIX. I find
    >> running it in an emulator such as Parallels or VirtualBox is really easy.
    >>
    >> As to the choice to use the Alternate CD on the PPC iMac... I
    >> tried the Standard CD first and it didn't work. YMMV.
    >>
    >> Later
    >> Mike

    >
    >
    > I'm well-acquainted with Macs. I have 14 Macs here, from the Mac Plus I
    > purchased in 1987, up to the 1997 PowerMac 8600/200, all running OS
    > 9.0.4, 8.6 or 7.6.1. Prior to the Macs, it was Apple ][ from 1978,
    > progressing through the Apple ][+ and a couple of Apple //e computers.
    > Thirty years of Apple's under my belt, and many thousands of dollars! ;-)


    Another Apple// user (I picked up my first machine in 82-83)... That's
    a surprise. If you're still interested you can check out
    http://virtualapple.org and http://callapple.org. Call-A.P.P.L.E. is
    having trouble with parts of their revamped website. The current issues
    are being posted at http://www.members.shaw.ca/digitalcivilization. I'll
    be putting up the new issue on Wednesday. Unfortunately I don't have any
    Apple// articles this quarter. It's mostly Mac, Linux, and hardware.

    > My "newest" is a 350 MHz G3 iMac (Slot Loading). I might turn on this
    > iMac once every two or three months for something, usually as a testing
    > terminal to connect to one of my servers from an "outside line" since it
    > has a different WAN IP, router, etc.


    I usually have my Macs given to me. The mini is about a year old. Thank
    goodness I have it because the Linux box went down when I couldn't get
    my Radeon card working. My second newest Mac is a G3 mini tower. I'm not
    sure what I want to do with it yet. At the moment it needs a little
    work. When it's running I use it as a file server.

    > Over the years I have booted several PPC GNU/ Linux LiveCDs on this iMac
    > without problems, other than the well-documented video configuration
    > edit. The latest is Xubuntu 8.04 PPC which works fine as a LiveCD.


    Seriously, I'm going to have to give that a try. The 6.10 and 7.X ones
    didn't work for me. There are three people I know of here in town who
    would benefit from this.

    > However I have not installed any GNU/Linux, BSD, etc. to this iMac's
    > hard drive, so I can't say if that is the problem area.


    Generally if it runs live then it'll run from the hard drive. If you
    have a spare hard drive you can install it without losing what you
    already have.

    > Also, I wasn't aware there was an Alternate CD for the PPC platform (not
    > the PPC 601, 603, 604, but the G3 PPC750, G4 PPC74xx, and G5 PPC970).


    Most Linux distros consider the G series chips to be the only PPCs they
    support. If you're willing to put in the time other distros (including
    BSD) will go all the way back to the 601. There is an Alternate CD. The
    Live Xubuntu didn't work on a White iMac I had. It wouldn't work on one
    of the technicolour 350s either.

    > A G3 is the minimum necessary to run OS-X or an OS other than Apple's
    > OS. The old PPC60x CPUs cannot run OS-X, but there are distros for those
    > architectures, including the 68000 CPU, which I've also tried (a
    > MacPlus, and a 68030 in a Mac IIci and Mac IIsi).


    I have a couple of 030 machines as well. They are just gathering dust.
    I may have access to some other "Classic" Macs. If they can be
    "liberated" from the older system software they can be turned into
    decently modern machines. If you have a simple procedure (less than an
    hour) to get these machines up to speed I'd like to know more.

    > I have a PowerMac 6100 (60 MHz PPC 601 CPU) which contains a Sonnet PPC
    > 750 G3 225 MHz CPU card. It won't run Linux, etc., because the Sonnet
    > card's "drivers" are loaded as extensions (INITs) and/or control
    > panels(CDEVs), under Mac OS 8.6. You cannot boot the G3 Sonnet card
    > directly, therefore no OS-X is possible.


    Maybe FreeBSD?

    > The Alternate CD should work for the Intel Macs, since they don't
    > contain a PPC CPU but an 80x86 architecture CPU.


    I've only got one. It's a production machine. I don't want to mess
    around with it too much. I've managed an installation of FC7 under
    Parallels. I think I may go with VirtualBox since the license the
    Parallels folks gave us only worked with the older version of their
    software.

    > For once Apple has opened their computers up to the rest of the world,
    > instead of being so self-centered and snobby. A few years too late for
    > me to remain with them though. I moved to Wintel in 1997 for better
    > connectivity and speed. GNU/Linux followed soon afterward, and the
    > MacFarm here just gathers dust. ;-)


    Things went down hill since Woz had his accident. Apple is suing a
    clone maker and have their underwear in a knot about running OS X on
    standard PCs. They are missing a fantastic opportunity here. If they
    make OS X available for the standard PC they would wipe out most of the
    Vista market and gain almost all of the non-gamer casual users.

    I tried Windows for a few years. I didn't like it. Far too buggy. I
    installed OS/2 and loved it. All the old DOS games I had worked great.
    Then it was time to retire the hardware and by that time IBM wasn't
    making OS/2 any more. After using Win98 for a year (and having my
    production system wiped out twice) I said "screw this" and installed
    Linux. Never looked back.

    The Macs came about because I thought I could move some production over
    to them. I knew a few people who were trashing their old machines so I
    asked if I could have them. For a while it worked. Then I installed an
    old (legitimate) copy of M$ Word. That trashed everything. Now I play
    around with networking and games.

    > Oh, there is one PowerMac 8500/120 still humming away in the basement
    > 24/7/365, running a mail server for the past eight years. I pay it no
    > attention, and it doesn't bother me. Its days are numbered though, as I
    > now have Postfix and Dovecot running on an old AMD-K6 266 MHz under
    > Ubuntu 8.04 Server Edition. It will easily outperform the 120 MHz PowerMac.


    I have the same model of machine except someone stuck a 200MHz chip in
    it. It's now fairly unstable.

    I have a decent 200MHz machine which was running FreeBSD and a
    proprietary piece of crap 650MHz machine running FreeNAS. If I'm lucky I
    can get them doing something interesting.

    >


    Later
    Mike

  10. Re: Ubuntu PPC - PLEASE HELP!

    The Wizard of Oz wrote:

    > I usually have my Macs given to me. The mini is about a year old.
    > Thank goodness I have it because the Linux box went down when I
    > couldn't get my Radeon card working. My second newest Mac is a G3 mini
    > tower. I'm not sure what I want to do with it yet. At the moment it
    > needs a little work. When it's running I use it as a file server.



    Out of the 13 Macs (instead of 14 previously reported in error), I've
    only purchased four brand new:

    Mac Plus
    Mac IIsi
    PowerMac 8500/120
    PowerMac 8600/200

    I bought a Mac IIci from my brother for $50, and did some trading for a
    PowerMac 7600/120.

    The freebies were:

    Mac Classic (two each)
    Mac IIsi (a second one that was my mother's)
    PowerMac 5200 CD (another that was my mother's)
    PowerMac 6100 (from a friend in Texas)
    PowerMac 7100/75 (from a friend nearby)

    iMac G3 350 Slot Loading (another local friend)

    They all work except for the Mac Plus, which has bad video (common)
    although the CPU board still works, the 7100, which has a bad PS, and
    one Classic which was my ex's, and her dog raised his leg on it.

    Oh, I also have two Apple LaserWriter Plus printers. One was my
    mother's, and the other I bought new and paid $4000 for the $6500
    printer! Now you can't find refillers that can find the correct toner,
    and the Canon CX Engine is extinct. My $500 HP Color LaserJet 2605dn is
    far better, and runs on the Ethernet LAN.

    Plus, there are two Apple ImageWriter II printers, one I bought new, and
    one which was my mothers. I haven't used one of them in over 15 years.
    They are tractor feed, with an ink ribbon, but still useful for
    multipart forms or sprocket-fed labels. My mother used hers for labels
    until around 2001 when she had a stroke.

    Some day I may open up a museum. ;-)


    > Seriously, I'm going to have to give that a try. The 6.10 and 7.X
    > ones didn't work for me. There are three people I know of here in town
    > who would benefit from this.



    It's not too clear now, but I believe I ran Ubuntu 5.04 or 5.10, Fedora
    Core 4, and lastly the Xubuntu 8.04 LiveCDs.


    > I have a couple of 030 machines as well. They are just gathering
    > dust. I may have access to some other "Classic" Macs. If they can be
    > "liberated" from the older system software they can be turned into
    > decently modern machines. If you have a simple procedure (less than an
    > hour) to get these machines up to speed I'd like to know more.



    My "simple procedure" is more commonly known as "trial and error" with
    the error part more frequent. ;-)

    I'd suggest Googling for "+linux +68000" or using "68k" instead of
    "68000" to cover the '030 as well.

    Here are 1.6 million hits: http://www.google.com/search?q=%2B68k+%2Blinux


    >> I have a PowerMac 6100 (60 MHz PPC 601 CPU) which contains a Sonnet
    >> PPC 750 G3 225 MHz CPU card. It won't run Linux, etc., because the
    >> Sonnet card's "drivers" are loaded as extensions (INITs) and/or
    >> control panels(CDEVs), under Mac OS 8.6. You cannot boot the G3
    >> Sonnet card directly, therefore no OS-X is possible.

    >
    > Maybe FreeBSD?



    Only if it would run natively on the PPC 601. Or had a driver for the
    Sonnet G3 card which is unlikely. The bare 60 MHz PPC 601 would be just
    too slow for anything without that Sonnet 225 MHz G3.

    Seems I did try one of the BSDs on a Mac IIsi once (not FreeBSD but
    likely NetBSD or OpenBSD). The Mac IIsi is weird too since it doesn't
    have a coprocessor without adding one in the Processor Direct Slot. That
    is occupied with a NIC.

    The Mac IIci would be a much better choice for Unix experimentation. It
    is probably the best Mac II ever released by Apple. Mine is configured
    with two NICs as a standby router (IPNetRouter software), and will work
    on the cable ISP (Ethernet) or via external dialup modem. It was my
    router for several years until Linksys came out with the cheap BEFSR41
    models. They use a lot less power as well!


    > Things went down hill since Woz had his accident. Apple is suing a
    > clone maker and have their underwear in a knot about running OS X on
    > standard PCs. They are missing a fantastic opportunity here. If they
    > make OS X available for the standard PC they would wipe out most of
    > the Vista market and gain almost all of the non-gamer casual users.
    >
    > I tried Windows for a few years. I didn't like it. Far too buggy.
    > I installed OS/2 and loved it. All the old DOS games I had worked
    > great. Then it was time to retire the hardware and by that time IBM
    > wasn't making OS/2 any more. After using Win98 for a year (and having
    > my production system wiped out twice) I said "screw this" and
    > installed Linux. Never looked back.
    >
    > The Macs came about because I thought I could move some production
    > over to them. I knew a few people who were trashing their old machines
    > so I asked if I could have them. For a while it worked. Then I
    > installed an old (legitimate) copy of M$ Word. That trashed
    > everything. Now I play around with networking and games.



    I pushed my Macs pretty hard. They were not very stable, probably
    crashing due to memory leaks several times every day. A Windows PeeCee
    (98 and XP) did better.

    If "you" don't use a Mac, but launch a server and leave the area, they
    run for months. ;-) I'd say the 8500 running the SMTP/POP3 mail server,
    and the 7600 running an NNTP server, go around six months before running
    out of memory. Compared to one Debian Sarge server that has been running
    since November 2006, with BIND9, Fetchmail, Stunnel and ntpd as the
    larger services. It's an old 233 MHz AMD-K6 with only 64 MB of RAM.

    I've found that Linux runs circles around Macs, which run circles around
    Windows.


    > I have the same model of machine except someone stuck a 200MHz
    > chip in it. It's now fairly unstable.



    The 8500/200 was a later model of the original 120 MHz model. Their
    lifetime was rather short though, and that is another reason I left Apple.

    There is a use for Apple PCs (Macs) by some people, but for me, it is
    only an occasional bootup to find a long-forgotten document or picture.
    If all of my Macs' hard drives were wiped, I wouldn't cry. ;-)


    --
    John

    No Microsoft, Apple, AT&T, Intel, Novell, Trend Micro, nor Ford products were used in the preparation or transmission of this message.

    The EULA sounds like it was written by a team of lawyers who want to tell me what I can't do. The GPL sounds like it was written by a human being, who wants me to know what I can do.

  11. Re: Ubuntu PPC - PLEASE HELP!

    John F. Morse wrote:
    > The Wizard of Oz wrote:
    >
    >> I usually have my Macs given to me. The mini is about a year old.
    >> Thank goodness I have it because the Linux box went down when I
    >> couldn't get my Radeon card working. My second newest Mac is a G3 mini
    >> tower. I'm not sure what I want to do with it yet. At the moment it
    >> needs a little work. When it's running I use it as a file server.

    >
    >
    > Out of the 13 Macs (instead of 14 previously reported in error), I've
    > only purchased four brand new:



    I purchased one for $50 and sold the parts for $100. I made the other
    purchase because it came with a HUGE monitor and I thought it would be a
    good investment. Everything else was a give away.



    I'm actually amazed how well OS X detects printers. It queries them
    then comes back with an "I know this! Let me install the drivers for
    you.". If it were only this easy with Linux.

    > Some day I may open up a museum. ;-)


    A couple of friends were looking at this as well. They managed to
    collect a couple hundred machines. After looking at the cost of rent for
    the location they wanted they gave the machines away.

    >> Seriously, I'm going to have to give that a try. The 6.10 and 7.X
    >> ones didn't work for me. There are three people I know of here in town
    >> who would benefit from this.

    >
    >
    > It's not too clear now, but I believe I ran Ubuntu 5.04 or 5.10, Fedora
    > Core 4, and lastly the Xubuntu 8.04 LiveCDs.


    I'll be seeing some of the people in an hour or so. I'll let them know
    about Xubuntu 8.04.

    >> I have a couple of 030 machines as well. They are just gathering
    >> dust. I may have access to some other "Classic" Macs. If they can be
    >> "liberated" from the older system software they can be turned into
    >> decently modern machines. If you have a simple procedure (less than an
    >> hour) to get these machines up to speed I'd like to know more.

    >
    >
    > My "simple procedure" is more commonly known as "trial and error" with
    > the error part more frequent. ;-)
    >
    > I'd suggest Googling for "+linux +68000" or using "68k" instead of
    > "68000" to cover the '030 as well.
    >
    > Here are 1.6 million hits: http://www.google.com/search?q=%2B68k+%2Blinux


    Thanks for the info. I've been down that path before. I just couldn't
    get anything less than a G3 working in a reasonable time.

    >>> I have a PowerMac 6100 (60 MHz PPC 601 CPU) which contains a Sonnet
    >>> PPC 750 G3 225 MHz CPU card. It won't run Linux, etc., because the
    >>> Sonnet card's "drivers" are loaded as extensions (INITs) and/or
    >>> control panels(CDEVs), under Mac OS 8.6. You cannot boot the G3
    >>> Sonnet card directly, therefore no OS-X is possible.

    >>
    >> Maybe FreeBSD?

    >
    >
    > Only if it would run natively on the PPC 601. Or had a driver for the
    > Sonnet G3 card which is unlikely. The bare 60 MHz PPC 601 would be just
    > too slow for anything without that Sonnet 225 MHz G3.


    It will run natively (if you get the correct version). I don't know if
    the Sonnet card is supported but you could check the site. BSD is very
    good on most hardware. Picture a system running at three to five times
    the speed you are used to.

    > Seems I did try one of the BSDs on a Mac IIsi once (not FreeBSD but
    > likely NetBSD or OpenBSD). The Mac IIsi is weird too since it doesn't
    > have a coprocessor without adding one in the Processor Direct Slot. That
    > is occupied with a NIC.
    >
    > The Mac IIci would be a much better choice for Unix experimentation. It
    > is probably the best Mac II ever released by Apple. Mine is configured
    > with two NICs as a standby router (IPNetRouter software), and will work
    > on the cable ISP (Ethernet) or via external dialup modem. It was my
    > router for several years until Linksys came out with the cheap BEFSR41
    > models. They use a lot less power as well!


    For a terminal I think you're correct with your assessment. It would be
    a good machine. I think I have a IIsi myself. I'll have to dig it out.

    >
    >> Things went down hill since Woz had his accident. Apple is suing a
    >> clone maker and have their underwear in a knot about running OS X on
    >> standard PCs. They are missing a fantastic opportunity here. If they
    >> make OS X available for the standard PC they would wipe out most of
    >> the Vista market and gain almost all of the non-gamer casual users.
    >>
    >> I tried Windows for a few years. I didn't like it. Far too buggy.
    >> I installed OS/2 and loved it. All the old DOS games I had worked
    >> great. Then it was time to retire the hardware and by that time IBM
    >> wasn't making OS/2 any more. After using Win98 for a year (and having
    >> my production system wiped out twice) I said "screw this" and
    >> installed Linux. Never looked back.
    >>
    >> The Macs came about because I thought I could move some production
    >> over to them. I knew a few people who were trashing their old machines
    >> so I asked if I could have them. For a while it worked. Then I
    >> installed an old (legitimate) copy of M$ Word. That trashed
    >> everything. Now I play around with networking and games.

    >
    >
    > I pushed my Macs pretty hard. They were not very stable, probably
    > crashing due to memory leaks several times every day. A Windows PeeCee
    > (98 and XP) did better.


    A software issue not hardware.

    > If "you" don't use a Mac, but launch a server and leave the area, they
    > run for months. ;-) I'd say the 8500 running the SMTP/POP3 mail server,
    > and the 7600 running an NNTP server, go around six months before running
    > out of memory. Compared to one Debian Sarge server that has been running
    > since November 2006, with BIND9, Fetchmail, Stunnel and ntpd as the
    > larger services. It's an old 233 MHz AMD-K6 with only 64 MB of RAM.


    Mind if I ask where to get server software for the Classic System
    Software? I would have loved to have it running about five years ago.

    > I've found that Linux runs circles around Macs, which run circles around
    > Windows.


    *NIX on Macs is OK too. ;-)

    >> I have the same model of machine except someone stuck a 200MHz
    >> chip in it. It's now fairly unstable.

    >
    >
    > The 8500/200 was a later model of the original 120 MHz model. Their
    > lifetime was rather short though, and that is another reason I left Apple.


    This chip was added later.

    > There is a use for Apple PCs (Macs) by some people, but for me, it is
    > only an occasional bootup to find a long-forgotten document or picture.
    > If all of my Macs' hard drives were wiped, I wouldn't cry. ;-)


    I still enjoy some of the old games. Now if I only had more space I
    could set up a couple of machines.

    Later
    Mike


  12. Re: Ubuntu PPC - PLEASE HELP!

    The Wizard of Oz wrote:

    > Mind if I ask where to get server software for the Classic System
    > Software? I would have loved to have it running about five years ago.



    Not at all. Maybe you can play with the server applications I mention below.

    Climb into your H.G. Wells Time Machine, set the dial back about five
    years, .... ;-)

    Personally, I think I'd move forward 800,701 years and rescue Weena from
    the Morlocks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morlock

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tim...281960_film%29

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054387

    Oh, I'm lust^h^h^h^h drifting.

    The server stuph follows, with a few links.

    I run the Stalker Internet Mail Server (SIMS) for SMTP and POP3. It has
    long ago been discontinued, discarded and abandoned by its original
    developer, CommuniGate Systems. The SIMS mailing list is still available
    but understandably not very active at all. A very good mail server
    application, and can be administered remotely from another Mac or via a
    Web browser.

    http://www.google.com/search?num=100...er&btnG=Search

    I'm switching over to Postfix and Dovecot on Ubuntu 8.04 Server Edition
    soon (it's running now but not for all of my domains). Of course the
    Debian boxen all run Exim4, but I don't use them presently for any
    domain-wide use.

    I used to use RumorMill for my NNTP server before I moved to INN on
    Debian Sarge. It is a good news server, but development switched from
    the Classic OS to OS-X and I decided to use INN on Linux instead.

    I have RumorMill installed on several Macs (IIsi, IIci, and PowerMacs
    6100, 7600, 8500 and 8600). The 7600 can be switched on and is current
    as to loaded groups, etc. It can pull (suck) articles from my two ISPs
    and peer them with the INN servers (there are four of them installed,
    two under Sarge and two on Sarge PCs that were upgraded to Etch).

    RumorMill is a decent NNTP server (I've not tried the OS-X version), and
    can be remotely administered via its own management tools or via telnet
    (telnet required for some of the less used options and configurations).

    http://www.google.com/search?num=100...ill+Swaystairs

    I also have used MacDNS, which crashed a lot.
    http://www.google.com/search?num=100&q=MacDNS

    I switched to QuickDNS Pro which was much more stable.
    http://www.google.com/search?num=100&q=QuickDNS+Pro

    Now I run BIND9 on Debian Sarge.

    Web serving is pretty much common on any platform. I have used the Mac
    years ago, but now use Apache on Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, ....

    For a router, I used both the Mac IIci and later the PowerMac 7600/120,
    running IPNetRouter software. Use either two NICs, one for the WAN
    (cable modem) and the other for the LAN switches and hubs. Or use one
    NIC for the LAN, and an external modem for a dial-up ISP. Great router
    program that I really never explored to its fullest.

    I now use ntpd on Debian Sarge for the Stratum Two time server. The Mac
    didn't have any time server application that I knew of. I was using
    AboutTime on a Windows PC for many years before I switched to ntpd.
    AboutTime is a nice NTP application, especially for the older Windows 9x
    platforms (maybe ME and NT as well, or anything before XP).
    http://www.arachnoid.com/abouttime

    File servers amongst the Macs are the Classic AppleTalk, over Ethernet
    where available, or LocalTalk on the older non-Ethernet Macs.

    To share files between Macs and Windows, I run Miramar's PC MACLAN.
    http://www.google.com/search?num=100...amar+pc+maclan

    I run Timbuktu to remote control the Macs.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timbuktu_(software) and
    http://www.netopia.com/software/products/tb2 and
    http://www.google.com/search?num=100...allon+timbuktu


    --
    John

    No Microsoft, Apple, AT&T, Intel, Novell, Trend Micro, nor Ford products were used in the preparation or transmission of this message.

    The EULA sounds like it was written by a team of lawyers who want to tell me what I can't do. The GPL sounds like it was written by a human being, who wants me to know what I can do.

  13. Re: Ubuntu PPC - PLEASE HELP!

    John F. Morse wrote:


    Thanks for the info. I just got very busy. So busy the magazine will be
    held back a day or two for more articles (I hope). Apparently some major
    Apple// stuff happening. I'm both going to save the message and forward
    it to a couple of people still running classic software (different
    people from the ones who want the Xubuntu on iMacs).

    Later
    Mike

    P.S. Give you a smile. I was having a conversation (in French as I
    recall) with someone from France a number of years ago. We were talking
    about old computers. He said the hip reference to the retro-computing
    hardware, at the time, was to call old computers Ordinosaurs. (Ordinator
    is the French word for computer).

  14. Re: Ubuntu PPC - PLEASE HELP!


    "John F. Morse" wrote in message
    news:g6v823$hjg$1@optima7.xanadu-bbs.net...
    > The Wizard of Oz wrote:
    > > number6 wrote:
    > >> I'm nearly at my wits end in trying to install either ubuntu/kubuntu or
    > >> xubuntu on my iMac (alternate install versions). It's an iMac DV the
    > >> standard of the DV models (400mhz, dvd-rom, 256MB RAM, 40GB Harddisk
    > >> (ram
    > >> and harddisk both upgrades)).
    > >>
    > >> Please help!
    > >>
    > >> In the past i've installed ubuntu on it, put the disc in the drive, it
    > >> installed and i used it! I recently swapped the drive from 13GB to
    > >> 40GB and
    > >> since I can't install anything properly! Generally some error is
    > >> reported
    > >> during installation and it forces me to skip leaving it incomplete.
    > >>
    > >> So the question is is this just where they stopped supporting ppc is
    > >> there
    > >> something wrong with my system?
    > >>
    > >> I know there's not much to go on with this but if i can at least be
    > >> reassured that it's just not errors in the distributions.
    > >>
    > >> thanks
    > >>
    > >>

    > > I managed to get 6.04 to install nicely from the alternate CDs. If
    > > I tried the next version up or if I upgraded (as opposed to updated)
    > > the whole thing would break. It seems development stopped somewhere
    > > around that point.
    > >
    > > Later
    > > Mike

    >
    >
    > I don't think so, Mike. I've successfully upgraded from Dapper to Hardy
    > without any issues. My upgrade media and/or download is identical to
    > what everybody else has. The development is not the problem.
    >
    > However I did upgrade from a "normal" i386 install and not an Alternate
    > CD install. You must realize you took a non-standard route for
    > installation. Not worse, but not what the masses do/did. ;-)
    >
    > I have never upgraded a Dapper to Edgy though. That would be kinda
    > counter-productive, like "downgrading" an LTS to a non-LTS release. My
    > Edgy install was from the i386 CD, and hasn't been upgraded. It was for
    > evaluation only (or useful when helping someone).
    >
    > My two Feisty installs were also from their i386 CD. Again, they just
    > sit because they were for evaluation and having the same release, making
    > helping others more accurate.
    >
    > I did not mess with Gutsy at all. IIRC that era was occupied by Etch
    > upgrades from Sarge, and new Etch installs, plus a Red Hat 5.2 install
    > on an old 486SLC-33 with 16 MB of RAM, which took some doing. ;-)
    >
    >
    > --
    > John
    >
    > No Microsoft, Apple, AT&T, Intel, Novell, Trend Micro, nor Ford products

    were used in the preparation or transmission of this message.
    >
    > The EULA sounds like it was written by a team of lawyers who want to tell

    me what I can't do. The GPL sounds like it was written by a human being, who
    wants me to know what I can do.


    Thanks Mike and John (yes i know this is 2 months late!)

    You've confirmed my fears mike. What a bugger this is! Ah well, upgrade it
    is.

    Thanks john but we're talking ppc not i386 (unless i've missed something??)

    Thanks both



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