Router hacked. - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on Router hacked. - Ubuntu ; On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:13:16 -0700 Bill Baka wrote: > ... > Pretty much FF and T-bird for me, Linux and XP, and IE and Outlook for > her, the stubborn daughter. Try telling a 4.0GPA double major, high ...

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Thread: Router hacked.

  1. Re: Router hacked.

    On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:13:16 -0700
    Bill Baka wrote:

    > ...
    > Pretty much FF and T-bird for me, Linux and XP, and IE and Outlook for
    > her, the stubborn daughter. Try telling a 4.0GPA double major, high IQ
    > daughter anything, and see what happens.....
    > She tells me "Everybody else uses Windows, why do you use weird
    > systems?", with a totally straight face.
    > Frustration, to an exponential level.


    Try something like: "Everybody else eats fast food, why do you eat those
    weird fresh vegetables?"

    Might make her think.
    Assuming she's not a fast-food-only person of course. :-)

    --
    Was ist ist, was nicht ist ist moeglich

  2. Re: Router hacked.



    "Bill Baka" wrote in message
    news:hvDjk.34217$ZE5.26233@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...


    > Vista and me minus my $$$ is never going to happen.
    > Experience is *not* the problem since I have used an acoustic to couple
    > to the main frame at work back in 1978.
    > No user error here, just a power glitch/router problem from Hell.
    > Bill Baka


    You need another layer of /real/ security..
    connect the LAN port on the wireless to a FW/router that supports IPSEC VPN
    end points..
    then put an IPSEC client on the laptop.
    Even if you leave the wireless open nobody is going anywhere.
    If you are paranoid put intrusion detection on the wireless LAN port.
    Security is all about layers but, you have to understand the value of the
    layers e.g. adding another password/login is not increasing security very
    much.



  3. Re: Router hacked.

    Bill Baka wrote:
    >

    .... snip ...
    >
    > I'm personally NOT a wireless fan since I knew this kind of thing
    > would happen sooner or later, but alas, even I must carry a cell
    > phone these days. Progress?


    No you don't. I am living proof. My wife had one (which I gave
    her after many years of moaning). After she died I ignored it, and
    eventually got it killed. Then my daughters started to insist I
    had one, and bought me one for Christmas. After I got sick and
    recovered I let it lapse too, and now I never hear anything more
    about it. No bills either. I'm down to two or three things that
    need paying monthly, everything else is automatic, but under my
    control. One is the POTS telephone.

    --
    [mail]: Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
    [page]:
    Try the download section.



  4. Re: Router hacked.

    "dennis@home" wrote:
    >

    .... snip ...
    >
    > Those people really should get vista. I put the incident down to
    > user error and hope everyone that's reading learns a little from
    > the experience.


    Here are a few of the reasons to avoid Vista:






    --
    [mail]: Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
    [page]:
    Try the download section.



  5. Re: Router hacked.

    Johannes Kroll wrote:
    > Bill Baka wrote:
    > > ...
    > > Pretty much FF and T-bird for me, Linux and XP, and IE and
    > > Outlook for her, the stubborn daughter. Try telling a 4.0GPA
    > > double major, high IQ daughter anything, and see what
    > > happens.....
    > > She tells me "Everybody else uses Windows, why do you use
    > > weird systems?", with a totally straight face.
    > > Frustration, to an exponential level.

    > Try something like: "Everybody else eats fast food, why do you
    > eat those weird fresh vegetables?"
    > Might make her think.


    I was thinking more along the lines of...

    ....if she's so stinkin smart... why can't she understand the simple
    concept of "young and dumb"? :/

    Alvin went straight from "young and dumb" to "old and stupid" in AZ
    ps- really cool thread!

  6. Re: Router hacked.

    larrys707 illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    > This is a semi-Ubuntu question concerning Linksys routers. Comcast
    > killed my port 25 outgoing e-mail claiming I was spamming and I have a
    > WRT54G, but considering a GL and DD-WRT. Has anyone else had a wireless
    > compromised like this? It was in 'open' unprotected mode for a while
    > after a power glitch last week and apparently a war driver got into it
    > before I found out. The wireless 802.11G is for my daughter's college
    > work on her laptop and I haven't been able to catch her to get her MAC
    > again, and lock out all others.
    > The question is mainly if anyone has used the GL and or DD-WRT and how
    > straightforward it is to work with.
    > Dan C need not answer this, since it is not play time for me right now.
    > There is the possibility that someone could have spoofed my email but
    > that seems a bit more unlikely.
    > Moog? Anyone?
    > Bill Baka
    >
    > After a really pissy hour on the phone to Comcast legal.


    Interesting?

    What would I do?

    Disconnect the router.
    Hard reset the Linksys.
    Set it up using an ethernet cable...use a different IP range.
    Hide the ESSID.
    Ensure WPA-PSK is enabled and activated.

    Ensure all systems on your network are OK. Wireshark is handy for
    this.

    Check to see if it works.

    As Dennis Said. Forget MAC Adresses. They're only really any use as a
    "secondary" security. You need to get your network encrypted correctly
    and ensure there's nothing hanging around within it.

    As for email spoofing. Sod it. I reckon 9/10 email users are having
    their addresses spoofed.

    If they're using your network to remail, then that's different.
    Wireshark should be able to let you know if this is the case.

    --
    Expressing yourself in seventeen syllables is very diffic ~ John Cooper
    Clarke

  7. Re: Router hacked.

    Johannes Kroll wrote:
    > On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:13:16 -0700
    > Bill Baka wrote:
    >
    >
    >> ...
    >> Pretty much FF and T-bird for me, Linux and XP, and IE and Outlook for
    >> her, the stubborn daughter. Try telling a 4.0GPA double major, high IQ
    >> daughter anything, and see what happens.....
    >> She tells me "Everybody else uses Windows, why do you use weird
    >> systems?", with a totally straight face.
    >> Frustration, to an exponential level.
    >>

    >
    > Try something like: "Everybody else eats fast food, why do you eat those
    > weird fresh vegetables?"
    >
    > Might make her think.
    > Assuming she's not a fast-food-only person of course. :-)
    >
    >

    Vegetarian with a weakness for Taco Bell once a week.
    I am outright demanding her computer so I can transfer all her files to
    one of my hard drives and then scan the snot out of it too. She has no
    choice on this one. I'm invoking parental privilege.
    Bill Baka
    Bill Baka

  8. Re: Router hacked.

    dennis@home wrote:
    >
    >
    > "Bill Baka" wrote in message
    > news:hvDjk.34217$ZE5.26233@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
    >
    >
    >> Vista and me minus my $$$ is never going to happen.
    >> Experience is *not* the problem since I have used an acoustic to couple
    >> to the main frame at work back in 1978.
    >> No user error here, just a power glitch/router problem from Hell.
    >> Bill Baka

    >
    > You need another layer of /real/ security..
    > connect the LAN port on the wireless to a FW/router that supports
    > IPSEC VPN end points..
    > then put an IPSEC client on the laptop.
    > Even if you leave the wireless open nobody is going anywhere.
    > If you are paranoid put intrusion detection on the wireless LAN port.
    > Security is all about layers but, you have to understand the value of
    > the layers e.g. adding another password/login is not increasing
    > security very much.
    >
    >

    It isn't that I am paranoid, but I knew this could happen with wireless,
    so I locked it into G only mode, along with all the other tricks
    available with the standard Linksys software, which leaves a lot to be
    desired. I may just ding my Visa and order a WRT54GL from Egghead.com
    and start out by putting DD-WRT into that one so I can't brick my
    present one. More $$$ but less hassle. If I could daisy chain 2 Linksys
    routers, one as a firewall only, and one as the general purpose gateway,
    that might have a chance.
    What would you advise for a FW/router that can be configured the way I want?
    Bill Baka

  9. Re: Router hacked.

    Moog wrote:
    > larrys707 illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >
    >> This is a semi-Ubuntu question concerning Linksys routers. Comcast
    >> killed my port 25 outgoing e-mail claiming I was spamming and I have a
    >> WRT54G, but considering a GL and DD-WRT. Has anyone else had a wireless
    >> compromised like this? It was in 'open' unprotected mode for a while
    >> after a power glitch last week and apparently a war driver got into it
    >> before I found out. The wireless 802.11G is for my daughter's college
    >> work on her laptop and I haven't been able to catch her to get her MAC
    >> again, and lock out all others.
    >> The question is mainly if anyone has used the GL and or DD-WRT and how
    >> straightforward it is to work with.
    >> Dan C need not answer this, since it is not play time for me right now.
    >> There is the possibility that someone could have spoofed my email but
    >> that seems a bit more unlikely.
    >> Moog? Anyone?
    >> Bill Baka
    >>
    >> After a really pissy hour on the phone to Comcast legal.
    >>

    >
    > Interesting?
    >
    > What would I do?
    >
    > Disconnect the router.
    > Hard reset the Linksys.
    > Set it up using an ethernet cable...use a different IP range.
    > Hide the ESSID.
    > Ensure WPA-PSK is enabled and activated.

    Done, again after the power incident.
    >
    >
    > Ensure all systems on your network are OK. Wireshark is handy for
    > this.
    >

    Only mine, hard wired and her laptop.
    > Check to see if it works.
    >
    > As Dennis Said. Forget MAC Adresses. They're only really any use as a
    > "secondary" security. You need to get your network encrypted correctly
    > and ensure there's nothing hanging around within it.
    >

    The MAC at least keeps my grandson's playstation off, but some of his
    friends have computers, and he says none of them are smart enough to
    figure it out. I also have encryption on to her laptop.
    > As for email spoofing. Sod it. I reckon 9/10 email users are having
    > their addresses spoofed.

    Yup. That much I got from Comcast's legal department.
    >
    >
    > If they're using your network to remail, then that's different.
    > Wireshark should be able to let you know if this is the case.
    >

    That's another maybe. Notice I am posting exclusively from Ubuntu now.
    I won't even boot windows on the 'net right now.
    Thanks,
    Bill Baka

  10. Re: Router hacked.

    alvinj@Example.com wrote:
    > Johannes Kroll wrote:
    >
    >> Bill Baka wrote:
    >>
    >>> ...
    >>> Pretty much FF and T-bird for me, Linux and XP, and IE and
    >>> Outlook for her, the stubborn daughter. Try telling a 4.0GPA
    >>> double major, high IQ daughter anything, and see what
    >>> happens.....
    >>> She tells me "Everybody else uses Windows, why do you use
    >>> weird systems?", with a totally straight face.
    >>> Frustration, to an exponential level.
    >>>

    >> Try something like: "Everybody else eats fast food, why do you
    >> eat those weird fresh vegetables?"
    >> Might make her think.
    >>

    >
    > I was thinking more along the lines of...
    >
    > ...if she's so stinkin smart... why can't she understand the simple
    > concept of "young and dumb"? :/
    >
    > Alvin went straight from "young and dumb" to "old and stupid" in AZ
    > ps- really cool thread!
    >

    Try 29 and stubbornly arrogant. She thinks that going to college will
    magically make her smarter than me.
    I've had guys with doctorates working for me that I have had to let go
    for lack of real world smarts, so it does happen.
    Bill Baka

  11. Re: Router hacked.

    Bill Baka illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    > Moog wrote:
    >> larrys707 illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >>
    >>> This is a semi-Ubuntu question concerning Linksys routers. Comcast
    >>> killed my port 25 outgoing e-mail claiming I was spamming and I have a
    >>> WRT54G, but considering a GL and DD-WRT. Has anyone else had a wireless
    >>> compromised like this? It was in 'open' unprotected mode for a while
    >>> after a power glitch last week and apparently a war driver got into it
    >>> before I found out. The wireless 802.11G is for my daughter's college
    >>> work on her laptop and I haven't been able to catch her to get her MAC
    >>> again, and lock out all others.
    >>> The question is mainly if anyone has used the GL and or DD-WRT and how
    >>> straightforward it is to work with.
    >>> Dan C need not answer this, since it is not play time for me right now.
    >>> There is the possibility that someone could have spoofed my email but
    >>> that seems a bit more unlikely.
    >>> Moog? Anyone?
    >>> Bill Baka
    >>>
    >>> After a really pissy hour on the phone to Comcast legal.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Interesting?
    >>
    >> What would I do?
    >>
    >> Disconnect the router.
    >> Hard reset the Linksys.
    >> Set it up using an ethernet cable...use a different IP range.
    >> Hide the ESSID.
    >> Ensure WPA-PSK is enabled and activated.

    > Done, again after the power incident.



    >> Ensure all systems on your network are OK. Wireshark is handy for
    >> this.
    >>

    > Only mine, hard wired and her laptop.


    My missus has a laptop running XP Pro (She's a teacher and has all
    this pooftah powerpoint nonsense "for the kids").

    I have a seperate IP address allocate on a different range via my
    router for her. This way, she gains absolutely no access to our
    home network, but can access bloody facebook and play scrabilicious
    (or whatever the hell it's called).

    I've suggested she'd be better off doing her hair, but I just get a
    "stfu geek" stare. ;-)

    >> Check to see if it works.
    >>
    >> As Dennis Said. Forget MAC Adresses. They're only really any use as a
    >> "secondary" security. You need to get your network encrypted correctly
    >> and ensure there's nothing hanging around within it.
    >>

    > The MAC at least keeps my grandson's playstation off, but some of his
    > friends have computers, and he says none of them are smart enough to
    > figure it out. I also have encryption on to her laptop.


    Yup. Good policy. As I said, "secondary security"

    >> As for email spoofing. Sod it. I reckon 9/10 email users are having
    >> their addresses spoofed.

    > Yup. That much I got from Comcast's legal department.


    I get numerous emails from employees at our firm saying...
    "I've just received an email from myself".

    I tiredly ask them to "forward all headers" and without fail it is
    some cunt in Russia spoofing the address trying to sell Viagra or
    offer an invitation to "singlesnet".

    The best one I received had a Subject message of
    "Get your dick out, it's friday".

    Now that's how you should do it spammers. ;-)

    >> If they're using your network to remail, then that's different.
    >> Wireshark should be able to let you know if this is the case.
    >>

    > That's another maybe. Notice I am posting exclusively from Ubuntu now.
    > I won't even boot windows on the 'net right now.


    Good plan. However, I would also strongly suggest you make sure you
    don't have postfix, sendmail or a.n.other mail server set up on your
    Ubuntu box too. These need to be monitored regularly if you do have
    them set up. There are plenty of securiy HOWTO's available on the web
    if you are running one.

    > Thanks


    No worries.

    --
    "Now, most dentist's chairs go up and down, don't they? The one I was
    in went back and forwards. I thought 'This is unusual'. And the dentist
    said to me 'Mr Vine, get out of the filing cabinet.'" ~ Tim Vine

  12. Re: Router hacked.



    "Bill Baka" wrote in message
    news:F0Mjk.15132$cW3.6610@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...
    > dennis@home wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> "Bill Baka" wrote in message
    >> news:hvDjk.34217$ZE5.26233@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
    >>
    >>
    >>> Vista and me minus my $$$ is never going to happen.
    >>> Experience is *not* the problem since I have used an acoustic to couple
    >>> to the main frame at work back in 1978.
    >>> No user error here, just a power glitch/router problem from Hell.
    >>> Bill Baka

    >>
    >> You need another layer of /real/ security..
    >> connect the LAN port on the wireless to a FW/router that supports
    >> IPSEC VPN end points..
    >> then put an IPSEC client on the laptop.
    >> Even if you leave the wireless open nobody is going anywhere.
    >> If you are paranoid put intrusion detection on the wireless LAN port.
    >> Security is all about layers but, you have to understand the value of
    >> the layers e.g. adding another password/login is not increasing
    >> security very much.
    >>
    >>

    > It isn't that I am paranoid, but I knew this could happen with wireless,
    > so I locked it into G only mode, along with all the other tricks
    > available with the standard Linksys software, which leaves a lot to be
    > desired. I may just ding my Visa and order a WRT54GL from Egghead.com
    > and start out by putting DD-WRT into that one so I can't brick my
    > present one. More $$$ but less hassle. If I could daisy chain 2 Linksys
    > routers, one as a firewall only, and one as the general purpose gateway,
    > that might have a chance.
    > What would you advise for a FW/router that can be configured the way I
    > want?


    ipcop.org, smoothwall, http://www.pfsense.com + a cheap PC with multiple
    network interfaces.
    You could do away with the access point and build the wireless (or use USB)
    into the PC if you want.
    > Bill Baka



  13. Re: Router hacked.

    I don't really buy into the thought that this was a wireless 'hack'. In
    the time the OP's router was in default mode, what is the chance that
    someone within wireless range of it was able to discover it, access it,
    get onto a machine and spam from it. I would say that was pretty much
    unlikely.

    It is more likely that there is a bot running on the M$ machine, forming
    part of a larger botnet. Far harder to believe is that a spammer happens
    to be sitting across the road using your connection to mail out junk.
    It's all a bit more sophisticated than that ;-)

    --
    I collect spam + please send it to: givemespam@wibblywobblyteapot.co.uk

  14. Re: Router hacked.



    "CBFalconer" wrote in message
    news:488F7956.69B7AA4E@yahoo.com...
    > "dennis@home" wrote:
    >>

    > ... snip ...
    >>
    >> Those people really should get vista. I put the incident down to
    >> user error and hope everyone that's reading learns a little from
    >> the experience.

    >
    > Here are a few of the reasons to avoid Vista:


    None of which apply in the context of the post to which you are replying!

    snip uninformed drivel.


  15. OT adjust ..... Re: Router hacked.

    On 2008-07-29, Bill Baka hit the keyboard and wrote:
    > Johannes Kroll wrote:
    >> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:13:16 -0700
    >> Bill Baka wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> ...
    >>> Pretty much FF and T-bird for me, Linux and XP, and IE and Outlook for
    >>> her, the stubborn daughter. Try telling a 4.0GPA double major, high IQ
    >>> daughter anything, and see what happens.....
    >>> She tells me "Everybody else uses Windows, why do you use weird
    >>> systems?", with a totally straight face.
    >>> Frustration, to an exponential level.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Try something like: "Everybody else eats fast food, why do you eat those
    >> weird fresh vegetables?"
    >>
    >> Might make her think.
    >> Assuming she's not a fast-food-only person of course. :-)
    >>
    >>

    > Vegetarian with a weakness for Taco Bell once a week.
    > I am outright demanding her computer so I can transfer all her files to
    > one of my hard drives and then scan the snot out of it too. She has no
    > choice on this one. I'm invoking parental privilege.
    > Bill Baka


    Bill please when you reply to some-one could you
    please include one "new line" before you type in your
    comments/text etc etc? It's kind of hard to read where you
    start.
    I left your reply above intact....

    as to spoofing e-mails (someone said 9/10) I get spam send
    to from all over the world, and sometimes my old addresses I
    used 5-7 years ago are used as the sender. Sometimes
    the inbox of my ISP-web-mail is full with "Postmaster:
    undelivered messages" because the recipients addresses are
    no longer valid.

    > Bill Baka



    Dragomir Kollaric
    --
    This signature is licensed under the GPL and may be
    freely distributed as long as a copy of the GPL is included... :-)


  16. Re: Router hacked.

    In Moog:

    [Snip...]

    > but can access bloody facebook and play scrabilicious (or whatever the
    > hell it's called)




    Moog, my good man, you might be in SERIOUS trouble:

    Scrabulous cuts off users as Hasbro spells lawsuit
    Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:45am EDT
    By Eric Auchard

    SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Word-wise game players lost a popular online
    diversion on Tuesday as the creators of a knock-off of the game
    Scrabble cut off service in North America in the face of a lawsuit by
    game maker Hasbro Inc.
    ....

    "Scrabulous is disabled for U.S. and Canadian users until further
    notice," Scrabulous notified players of the crossword game inside the
    popular Facebook social network site.

    More:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/marke...0080730?rpc=44

    --
    Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
    Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.
    Really, it's (wyrd) at airmail, dotted with net. DO NOT SPAM IT.
    I toss GoogleGroup posts from gitgo (http://improve-usenet.org).

  17. Re: Router hacked.

    Em Segunda, 28 de Julho de 2008 19:39, larrys707 escreveu:

    > Has anyone else had a wireless
    > compromised like this?


    only the persons that reject anything wireless does not.

    wep, wap, hiden ssid... all craked in 5 to 15 minutes.

    wireless = no, thank you...




  18. Re: OT adjust ..... Re: Router hacked.

    "Dragomir Kollaric" wrote:
    > as to spoofing e-mails (someone said 9/10) I get spam send
    > to from all over the world, and sometimes my old addresses I
    > used 5-7 years ago are used as the sender. Sometimes
    > the inbox of my ISP-web-mail is full with "Postmaster:
    > undelivered messages" because the recipients addresses are
    > no longer valid.
    >
    > Dragomir Kollaric



    Late this Spring I, also, was receiving tons of bounced email
    that I had supposedly sent out. This went on steadily for 2 weeks.
    Then I theorized that someone had guessed or intercepted my mail
    account password, and I changed the password. Immediately, the
    flood of bounced email began to subside and then die out completely
    in 3 days. Might someone have gotten ahold of Bill Baka's email
    password?

    *TimDaniels*



  19. Re: Router hacked.

    "Klunk" wrote:
    >I don't really buy into the thought that this was a wireless 'hack'. In
    > the time the OP's router was in default mode, what is the chance that
    > someone within wireless range of it was able to discover it, access it,
    > get onto a machine and spam from it. I would say that was pretty much
    > unlikely.
    >
    > It is more likely that there is a bot running on the M$ machine, forming
    > part of a larger botnet. Far harder to believe is that a spammer happens
    > to be sitting across the road using your connection to mail out junk.
    > It's all a bit more sophisticated than that ;-)



    I agree. I'd suspect a breach in the daughter's laptop from time spent
    at a hotspot, allowing it to be a spam 'bot while connected to Bill's wireless
    router, or a theft of the mail account's password.

    *TimDaniels*



  20. Re: OT adjust ..... Re: Router hacked.

    Dragomir Kollaric wrote:
    > On 2008-07-29, Bill Baka hit the keyboard and wrote:
    >
    >> Johannes Kroll wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:13:16 -0700
    >>> Bill Baka wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> ...
    >>>> Pretty much FF and T-bird for me, Linux and XP, and IE and Outlook for
    >>>> her, the stubborn daughter. Try telling a 4.0GPA double major, high IQ
    >>>> daughter anything, and see what happens.....
    >>>> She tells me "Everybody else uses Windows, why do you use weird
    >>>> systems?", with a totally straight face.
    >>>> Frustration, to an exponential level.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> Try something like: "Everybody else eats fast food, why do you eat those
    >>> weird fresh vegetables?"
    >>>
    >>> Might make her think.
    >>> Assuming she's not a fast-food-only person of course. :-)
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >> Vegetarian with a weakness for Taco Bell once a week.
    >> I am outright demanding her computer so I can transfer all her files to
    >> one of my hard drives and then scan the snot out of it too. She has no
    >> choice on this one. I'm invoking parental privilege.
    >> Bill Baka
    >>

    >
    >

    Bill's reply...
    > Bill please when you reply to some-one could you
    > please include one "new line" before you type in your
    > comments/text etc etc? It's kind of hard to read where you
    > start.
    > I left your reply above intact....

    Sorry,
    I do that with my sister.
    >
    >
    > as to spoofing e-mails (someone said 9/10) I get spam send
    > to from all over the world, and sometimes my old addresses I
    > used 5-7 years ago are used as the sender. Sometimes
    > the inbox of my ISP-web-mail is full with "Postmaster:
    > undelivered messages" because the recipients addresses are
    > no longer valid.
    >

    I had a flood of those a while back, so it may be that someone tried to
    spoof my old dial up account and it came back to me. No telling for sure
    once a bad hacker get's hold of it.
    Me again,
    Bill Baka
    >
    >> Bill Baka
    >>

    >
    >
    > Dragomir Kollaric
    >


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