Re: Get the "world's most usable Linux" working in only a week! Take that Microsoft! - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on Re: Get the "world's most usable Linux" working in only a week! Take that Microsoft! - Ubuntu ; On 2008-07-22, DanS wrote: > Ben wrote in news:g650jk$fsr$2@news.mixmin.net: > >> I've never really seen a live CD as a fair trial. My only use of them so >> far has been to play chess while installing the OS from ...

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Thread: Re: Get the "world's most usable Linux" working in only a week! Take that Microsoft!

  1. Re: Get the "world's most usable Linux" working in only a week! Take that Microsoft!

    On 2008-07-22, DanS wrote:
    > Ben wrote in news:g650jk$fsr$2@news.mixmin.net:
    >
    >> I've never really seen a live CD as a fair trial. My only use of them so
    >> far has been to play chess while installing the OS from the live CD.
    >>
    >> They're slow, don't have full functionality, and leave the person


    No they aren't.

    They tend to load a little slow but that kind of comes with the
    territory. As far as "full functionality" goes, I am not sure
    that's really a reasonable complaint either.

    There really isn't much to any other basic OS install either.

    >> thinking that's what the full product might be like if they know
    >> absolutely nothing about Linux.

    >
    > Two thoughts on this....
    >
    > 1) The main reason to try a LiveCD is to make sure your hardware is
    > detected and functions.......
    >
    > and 2) "Full" functionality ? Other than printers, what is there that a
    > typical user doesn't get booting a LiveCD ? (Not saying there isn't
    > anything else, just not sure what it could be.)
    >
    > OK....3 things.....and 3) If anyone would expect anything running
    > completely from a CD to be 'THE' way it runs installed, speed wise, they
    > shouldn't even be using a PC.
    >



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  2. Re: Get the "world's most usable Linux" working in only a week!Take that Microsoft!

    On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:18:35 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:

    > On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:11:03 -0500, HeyBub wrote:
    >
    >> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Look at the usual press when a new Linux distribution gets released...
    >>> Stuff like : 8million downloads in 2 weeks etc.... Same for
    >>> OpenOffice.
    >>>
    >>> And that very well may be true.
    >>>
    >>> However, now look at the statistics for people who are actually USING
    >>> desktop Linux.
    >>>
    >>> If those very same downloads were being used for any length of time,
    >>> Linux would have buried Microsoft by now.

    >>
    >> Well, no. If 8 million folks are using Linux, out of 1 billion desktop
    >> installation, that's about right.
    >>
    >> By some estimates, there are about 8 million truely insane people on
    >> the globe. There is some disagreement about the overlap between these
    >> two groups.

    >
    > The 8 million was figurtively speaking for ONE release and a short
    > period of time.


    Your argument's still flawed. Firefox 3 got 8 million downloads in 24
    hours. Nobody can quantify how many are new and how many are upgrades.

    --
    Andy Jacobs

  3. Re: Get the "world's most usable Linux" working in only a week!Take that Microsoft!

    On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:11:30 -0400, Linonut wrote:

    > * HeyBub peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> Well, no. If 8 million folks are using Linux, out of 1 billion desktop
    >> installation, that's about right.
    >>
    >> By some estimates, there are about 8 million truely insane people on
    >> the globe. There is some disagreement about the overlap between these
    >> two groups.

    >
    > Idiot.


    I think he meant that as a compliment. I certainly took it as one.

    --
    Andy Jacobs

  4. Re: Get the "world's most usable Linux" working in only a week! Take that Microsoft!

    On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:00:04 -0500, Andy Jacobs wrote:

    > On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:18:35 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:11:03 -0500, HeyBub wrote:
    >>
    >>> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> Look at the usual press when a new Linux distribution gets released...
    >>>> Stuff like : 8million downloads in 2 weeks etc.... Same for
    >>>> OpenOffice.
    >>>>
    >>>> And that very well may be true.
    >>>>
    >>>> However, now look at the statistics for people who are actually USING
    >>>> desktop Linux.
    >>>>
    >>>> If those very same downloads were being used for any length of time,
    >>>> Linux would have buried Microsoft by now.
    >>>
    >>> Well, no. If 8 million folks are using Linux, out of 1 billion desktop
    >>> installation, that's about right.
    >>>
    >>> By some estimates, there are about 8 million truely insane people on
    >>> the globe. There is some disagreement about the overlap between these
    >>> two groups.

    >>
    >> The 8 million was figurtively speaking for ONE release and a short
    >> period of time.

    >
    > Your argument's still flawed. Firefox 3 got 8 million downloads in 24
    > hours. Nobody can quantify how many are new and how many are upgrades.


    Back up a second....
    Here is the point I am trying to make...

    The Linux community is forever squaking about this distro, that distro and
    how many downloads a particular site may have gotten during the release of
    a new prodcut.

    This is mostly for mainstream versions like Fedora, Ubuntu etc...

    So let's accept these figures as truthful because they probably are.

    The point I am making is that even if a small percentage of these often
    quoted download numbers for Linux were true, collectively, IOW the
    Fedora+Ubuntu+xxxyyyzz distributions combined, Microsoft would be in
    trouble and the Linux desktop figures would be much better than the 0.6
    percent that often gets quoted.

    What is happening is that these downloads simply do not translate into long
    term use of Linux.
    Yes some may be upgrades, agreed, but even still where are all these users
    hiding?

    Desktop Linux is a virtual unknown.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  5. Re: Get the "world's most usable Linux" working in only a week!Take that Microsoft!

    In article <8Zuhk.23743$nD.14389@pd7urf1no>, thufir wrote:
    >On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:00:04 -0500, Andy Jacobs wrote:
    >
    >> Your argument's still flawed. Firefox 3 got 8 million downloads in 24
    >> hours. Nobody can quantify how many are new and how many are upgrades.

    >
    >But you can reasonably assert that there 8 million users, if not more.


    Youi could ... if you cared about data


  6. Re: Get the "world's most usable Linux" working in only a week!Take that Microsoft!

    On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:00:04 -0500, Andy Jacobs wrote:


    > Your argument's still flawed. Firefox 3 got 8 million downloads in 24
    > hours. Nobody can quantify how many are new and how many are upgrades.



    But you can reasonably assert that there 8 million users, if not more.



    -Thufir

  7. Re: Get the "world's most usable Linux" working in only a week!Take that Microsoft!

    thufir wrote:
    > On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:00:04 -0500, Andy Jacobs wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Your argument's still flawed. Firefox 3 got 8 million downloads in 24
    >> hours. Nobody can quantify how many are new and how many are upgrades.

    >
    >
    > But you can reasonably assert that there 8 million users, if not more.
    >
    >
    >
    > -Thufir




    And that doesn't even count us that already had ff3 installed.
    caver1

  8. Re: Get the "world's most usable Linux" working in only a week! Take that Microsoft!



    "thufir" wrote in message
    news:8Zuhk.23743$nD.14389@pd7urf1no...
    > On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:00:04 -0500, Andy Jacobs wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Your argument's still flawed. Firefox 3 got 8 million downloads in 24
    >> hours. Nobody can quantify how many are new and how many are upgrades.

    >
    >
    > But you can reasonably assert that there 8 million users, if not more.


    Eight million FF3 users maybe, but they include the windows downloads so it
    says nothing about linux, I don't see why there is any argument here?





  9. Re: Get the "world's most usable Linux" working in only a week!Take that Microsoft!

    On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 07:59:26 -0400, Linonut wrote:

    >>>> Your argument's still flawed. Firefox 3 got 8 million downloads in
    >>>> 24 hours. Nobody can quantify how many are new and how many are
    >>>> upgrades.
    >>>
    >>> But you can reasonably assert that there 8 million users, if not more.

    >>
    >> Eight million FF3 users maybe, but they include the windows downloads
    >> so it says nothing about linux, I don't see why there is any argument
    >> here?

    >
    > Because Shuttleworth apparently identified 8 million distinct addresses
    > that had a version of Ubuntu, a few months after its release.



    What does Firefox have to do with Ubuntu? Not all Ubuntu users run FF,
    and certainly not all Firefox users run Ubuntu Linux! Which isn't in
    contention.

    On the other hand, maybe there's some registration process in which FF is
    used to count Ubuntu installs?



    -Thufir

  10. Re: Get the "world's most usable Linux" working in only a week! Take that Microsoft!

    On 2008-07-23, Linonut wrote:
    > * dennis@home peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> "thufir" wrote in message
    >> news:8Zuhk.23743$nD.14389@pd7urf1no...
    >>> On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:00:04 -0500, Andy Jacobs wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Your argument's still flawed. Firefox 3 got 8 million downloads in 24
    >>>> hours. Nobody can quantify how many are new and how many are upgrades.
    >>>
    >>> But you can reasonably assert that there 8 million users, if not more.

    >>
    >> Eight million FF3 users maybe, but they include the windows downloads so it
    >> says nothing about linux, I don't see why there is any argument here?

    >
    > Because Shuttleworth apparently identified 8 million distinct addresses
    > that had a version of Ubuntu, a few months after its release.


    ....that's interesting.

    On the one hand, multiple machines can have the same IP address.

    On the other hand, one machine can have multiple IP addresses.

    [deletia]
    > That's the whole problem. If I count home and work, I have more than
    > 20 linux "servers" of which one is a cluster containing twice that
    > many machines. But I'm the only person who uses them (well, the only
    > person who directly uses them, e.g. logs into them), so really,
    > in terms of users that's just 1...You can't count everyone who goes
    > to a webpage, or uses a bind, ntp, samba, squid, etc service to be a
    > linux user.
    >
    > That's why it's hard to count. Windows users are easy: it's almost
    > all 1 to 1. I have 1 windows machine, so mark me down for 1 in the

    [deletia]

    ....although I don't think there are that many people with home clusters
    skewing the statistics. OTOH, Linux can go into plenty of quasi-appliance
    devices and you can get multiple hits for the same "user" that way (assuming
    there is no NAT to obscure things).

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  11. Re: Get the "world's most usable Linux" working in only a week! Take that Microsoft!

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, JEDIDIAH

    wrote
    on Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:17:39 -0500
    :
    > On 2008-07-23, Linonut wrote:
    >> * dennis@home peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >>> "thufir" wrote in message
    >>> news:8Zuhk.23743$nD.14389@pd7urf1no...
    >>>> On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:00:04 -0500, Andy Jacobs wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Your argument's still flawed. Firefox 3 got 8 million downloads in 24
    >>>>> hours. Nobody can quantify how many are new and how many are upgrades.
    >>>>
    >>>> But you can reasonably assert that there 8 million users, if not more.
    >>>
    >>> Eight million FF3 users maybe, but they include the windows downloads so it
    >>> says nothing about linux, I don't see why there is any argument here?

    >>
    >> Because Shuttleworth apparently identified 8 million distinct addresses
    >> that had a version of Ubuntu, a few months after its release.

    >
    > ...that's interesting.
    >
    > On the one hand, multiple machines can have the same IP address.


    Unless NAT is involved, I hope not. ;-) And if NAT is
    involved, that obviously throws the entire notion into
    question anyway.

    >
    > On the other hand, one machine can have multiple IP addresses.


    Indeed, though such multihomed machines are unlikely to do
    Firefox downloads. Of course, a machine can have multiple
    IP addresses over time if it's sitting on a DHCP subnet,
    though assuming all downloads are successful a user is
    rather unlikely to download Firefox more than once absent
    special circumstances.

    >
    > [deletia]
    >> That's the whole problem. If I count home and work, I have more than
    >> 20 linux "servers" of which one is a cluster containing twice that
    >> many machines. But I'm the only person who uses them (well, the only
    >> person who directly uses them, e.g. logs into them), so really,
    >> in terms of users that's just 1...You can't count everyone who goes
    >> to a webpage, or uses a bind, ntp, samba, squid, etc service to be a
    >> linux user.
    >>
    >> That's why it's hard to count. Windows users are easy: it's almost
    >> all 1 to 1. I have 1 windows machine, so mark me down for 1 in the

    > [deletia]
    >
    > ...although I don't think there are that many people with home clusters
    > skewing the statistics. OTOH, Linux can go into plenty of quasi-appliance
    > devices and you can get multiple hits for the same "user" that way (assuming
    > there is no NAT to obscure things).
    >


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    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    New Technology? Not There. No Thanks.
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