@!#$%! backup - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on @!#$%! backup - Ubuntu ; On 2008-07-02, Baldylocks-Ubuntu wrote: > On Wednesday 02 Jul 2008 17:40 Joe licked a pencil and jotted: > > snip >>> >>> Ah, getting scripts or tasks to run on a schedule is not the problem, >>> it's the ones ...

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Thread: @!#$%! backup

  1. Re: @!#$%! backup

    On 2008-07-02, Baldylocks-Ubuntu wrote:
    > On Wednesday 02 Jul 2008 17:40 Joe licked a pencil and jotted:
    >
    > snip
    >>>
    >>> Ah, getting scripts or tasks to run on a schedule is not the problem,
    >>> it's the ones that need to run as root that seem to cause me grief.
    >>>
    >>> I just have a bit of reading to do to get how it all fits

    >>
    >> That's what I am trying to explain, though. rsnapshot requires no
    >> scripts. You set up the config file, and from there you just add the
    >> proper entries to root's crontab.
    >>
    >> Take a look at the /etc/rsnapshot.conf file. Everything you need is
    >> in there.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Ah right, sorry. Speed reading half asleep before going to work. Will have a
    > look shortly.
    >
    > Just one thing though, the "script" I have for rsync is not really a script
    > as such, just two lines, rsync and its options twice. I found that I got a
    > lot of failures if I didn't run as root.


    Sure, if you are trying to copy to/from places that need root
    access...

    But rsync and rsnapshot are different animals. Of course, I'd run
    both of them as root, which means instead of simply editing your
    crontab, use sudo crontab -e to edit root's crontab. That will run
    the jobs from the root account rather than your user account...


    --
    Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
    joe at hits - buffalo dot com
    "Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
    time..." - Danny, American History X

  2. Re: @!#$%! backup

    In article <5882753.aW5YOUnCxD@baldylocks>,
    Baldylocks-Ubuntu wrote:
    > As a very much non linux guru, I have to say that I find rsync to be an
    > absolutely brilliant tool for backing up my /home partition and /etc
    > directory.
    >
    > Just need to nail the issue of getting the script to run properly from cron
    > as root (I have still not read up properly on crontabs as root, but that's
    > my fault) only takes a couple of minutes to run the script manually until
    > then though.


    If you are using rsync for backup, you might find it useful to take a
    look at the often overlooked --link-dest option. Here's the backup
    script I run daily, illustrating the use that option.

    Basically, each day's backup goes into a new subdirectory, named after
    the date and time of the backup. Files that have not changed since the
    last backup are hard linked from the last backup to the current backup,
    rather than copied.

    cd /root
    DST=/mnt/backup/daily/`date +%Y%m%d-%H%M`
    LAST=/mnt/backup/daily/latest
    LINK=
    if [ -L $LAST ]
    then
    LINK="--link-dest=$LAST"
    fi
    mkdir $DST
    RSYNC_FLAGS="-av -x --delete $LINK"
    rsync $RSYNC_FLAGS / $DST/.
    rm $LAST
    ln -s $DST $LAST

    So, each day's backup only needs space for the changed files plus the
    fill directory tree (Linux does not allow directory hard links). This
    results in space usage that grows like that of an incremental backup.

    Someday, I'll get around to adding something to automatically delete old
    backups, but for now, I just manually, every couple of months or so,
    delete some of the old backups.

    --
    --Tim Smith

  3. Re: @!#$%! backup

    On 2008-07-03, Tim Smith wrote:
    > In article <5882753.aW5YOUnCxD@baldylocks>,
    > Baldylocks-Ubuntu wrote:
    >> As a very much non linux guru, I have to say that I find rsync to be an
    >> absolutely brilliant tool for backing up my /home partition and /etc
    >> directory.
    >>
    >> Just need to nail the issue of getting the script to run properly from cron
    >> as root (I have still not read up properly on crontabs as root, but that's
    >> my fault) only takes a couple of minutes to run the script manually until
    >> then though.

    >
    > If you are using rsync for backup, you might find it useful to take a
    > look at the often overlooked --link-dest option. Here's the backup
    > script I run daily, illustrating the use that option.
    >
    > Basically, each day's backup goes into a new subdirectory, named after
    > the date and time of the backup. Files that have not changed since the
    > last backup are hard linked from the last backup to the current backup,
    > rather than copied.
    >
    > cd /root
    > DST=/mnt/backup/daily/`date +%Y%m%d-%H%M`
    > LAST=/mnt/backup/daily/latest
    > LINK=
    > if [ -L $LAST ]
    > then
    > LINK="--link-dest=$LAST"
    > fi
    > mkdir $DST
    > RSYNC_FLAGS="-av -x --delete $LINK"
    > rsync $RSYNC_FLAGS / $DST/.
    > rm $LAST
    > ln -s $DST $LAST
    >
    > So, each day's backup only needs space for the changed files plus the
    > fill directory tree (Linux does not allow directory hard links). This
    > results in space usage that grows like that of an incremental backup.
    >
    > Someday, I'll get around to adding something to automatically delete old
    > backups, but for now, I just manually, every couple of months or so,
    > delete some of the old backups.
    >


    That's the way that rsnapshot handles it. And it deletes the old ones
    for you! ;-)

    --
    Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
    joe at hits - buffalo dot com
    "Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
    time..." - Danny, American History X

  4. Re: @!#$%! backup

    On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 18:42:09 -0500, Joe wrote:

    > On 2008-07-02, A J Hawke wrote:
    >> On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 11:43:12 -0500, Joe wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 2008-07-02, A J Hawke wrote:
    >>>> On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 07:37:32 +0000, johnny bobby bee wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Larry Blanchard wrote:
    >>>>>> My point is that when I see something called "Archive Manager" with
    >>>>>> a nice graphics interface, I have the (possibly unrealistic)
    >>>>>> expectation that it will be useful :-).
    >>>>>
    >>>>> It is useful, like any other compression utility or graphical
    >>>>> interface to archiving utilities such as tar and zip, is useful.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> And not being able to log on as root without going to the command
    >>>>>> line interface is irritating
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Jesus, not another 'wanting to log on as root' folks. Just be glad
    >>>>> that you can't.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> I'll go back to lurking now and meditating on my slowly increasing
    >>>>>> senility :-).
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Just ask appropriate questions. Stop getting irritated. There are
    >>>>> many backup utilities. Rsync (command line) is one of the best.
    >>>>
    >>>> OK, having read this and having used Acronis to image the machine
    >>>> weekly, I think it may be time for me to expand my knowledge now that
    >>>> I am spending more time using a Linux box for everything I do.
    >>>>
    >>>> Say I wanted to back up my Linux machine so I could take a empty hard
    >>>> drive and then 'restore' to that. I don't want to have to start
    >>>> installing OS's or apps. I don't care how bid the backup is. How
    >>>> would I do this?
    >>>>
    >>>> I am thinking along the lines of;
    >>>> Backup all files to a .tar file (to keep it contained)
    >>>>
    >>>> To restore:
    >>>> Format a HDD for the correct FS type with a swap partition Lauch a
    >>>> Live CD
    >>>> Copy the .tar into the root directory and expand it
    >>>>
    >>>> Would this make a working 'mirror' of the machine?
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> That's the windows way. In *nix, a working "mirror" isn't necessary.
    >>> Installing the OS takes minutes, and installing the apps is a matter
    >>> of maintaining an automated list of the currently installed packages
    >>> and using that to automatically install them. From there, all you
    >>> need in a backup is the config files and data.
    >>>
    >>> I have wiped out my hard drive. A restore took about an hour, and
    >>> rather than being an "image", it was a full clean install and restore
    >>> of data (/home) and configs.

    >>
    >> We have done that conversation about reinstalling the OS. That is *NOT*
    >> what I am asking. I don't want to **** around like that.
    >>
    >> Anybody else got an answer?
    >>
    >>

    > Don't like the right answer, don't ask the stupid question. No, there
    > is no way to effectively image a running linux system. You want to
    > image it, take it down and run acronis or whatever imager you want to
    > use.
    >
    > Again, if you can't reinstall and get everything back the way it was in
    > undert an hour, you probably should stick to windows anyhow. This might
    > be a bit complex for your feeble mind...
    >
    > Doing things the right way is not "****"ing around.
    >
    > I'll refrain from responding in the future. You don't want proper help,
    > you want someone to tell you what you want to hear...


    We've had this conversation about your answer before. I'm sorry if you
    think that it is 'right'. It is *NOT* what I want to do so therefore it
    is *WRONG* for my requirements.

    Your general anal remarks reflect on you. Not me. I'm sorry that you
    don't know any other way than the windows 'reinstall the OS' method of
    backing up - perhaps you should study a little harder and keep your ****
    filled mouth shut when you are clueless.

    --
    begin broken-news-reader.exe

  5. Re: @!#$%! backup

    On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 21:33:05 +0000, johnny bobby bee wrote:

    > A J Hawke wrote:
    >> Would this make a working 'mirror' of the machine?

    >
    > You can also try these:
    >
    > http://www.clonezilla.org/
    > http://gpartedclonz.tuxfamily.org/index.php
    > http://www.partimage.org/Main_Page
    >
    > They work like Norton Ghost.


    Thanks for a useful response Johnny. These look interesting as I was
    unaware of them.

    --
    begin broken-news-reader.exe

  6. Re: @!#$%! backup

    On 2 Jul 2008 20:11:17 GMT,
    Andres E. Hernando wrote:
    > In Wed, 02 Jul 2008 06:27:05, A J Hawke wrote in alt.os.linux.ubuntu:
    > > On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 07:37:32 +0000, johnny bobby bee wrote:
    > >
    > >> Larry Blanchard wrote:
    > >>> My point is that when I see something called "Archive Manager" with a
    > >>> nice graphics interface, I have the (possibly unrealistic) expectation
    > >>> that it will be useful :-).
    > >>
    > >> It is useful, like any other compression utility or graphical interface
    > >> to archiving utilities such as tar and zip, is useful.
    > >>
    > >>> And not being able to log on as root without going to the command line
    > >>> interface is irritating
    > >>
    > >> Jesus, not another 'wanting to log on as root' folks. Just be glad that
    > >> you can't.
    > >>
    > >>> I'll go back to lurking now and meditating on my slowly increasing
    > >>> senility :-).
    > >>
    > >> Just ask appropriate questions. Stop getting irritated. There are many
    > >> backup utilities. Rsync (command line) is one of the best.

    > >
    > > OK, having read this and having used Acronis to image the machine weekly,
    > > I think it may be time for me to expand my knowledge now that I am
    > > spending more time using a Linux box for everything I do.
    > >
    > > Say I wanted to back up my Linux machine so I could take a empty hard
    > > drive and then 'restore' to that. I don't want to have to start
    > > installing OS's or apps. I don't care how bid the backup is. How would I
    > > do this?
    > >
    > > I am thinking along the lines of;
    > > Backup all files to a .tar file (to keep it contained)
    > >
    > > To restore:
    > > Format a HDD for the correct FS type with a swap partition
    > > Lauch a Live CD
    > > Copy the .tar into the root directory and expand it
    > >
    > > Would this make a working 'mirror' of the machine?
    > >

    >
    > Wouldn't dd be a better tool to do that? Theoretically,
    > you can even backup your partition table using dd...


    dd is useful if backing up to a disk with the same size and geometry.
    I'm not certain how well a different disk geometry is handled. But it
    isn't safe to backup to a smaller disk. Backing up to a larger disk
    should work, but I'm not sure if the partition table would be stable
    enogh to repartition if desired after the fact.

    If the disks have different geometries, I'm not sure the bootloader
    would work. Guessing grub might as it reads the filesystem, but
    uncertain about Lilo which iirc uses a pointer.

    Michael C.
    --
    mjchappell@verizon.net http://mcsuper5.freeshell.org/

    Explanations exist; they have existed for all times, for there is always
    an easy solution to every human problem - neat, plausible, and wrong.
    - Henry Louis Mencken, 1917

  7. Re: @!#$%! backup

    In Thu, 03 Jul 2008 03:12:31, Michael C. wrote in alt.os.linux.ubuntu:
    > On 2 Jul 2008 20:11:17 GMT,
    > Andres E. Hernando wrote:
    >> In Wed, 02 Jul 2008 06:27:05, A J Hawke wrote in alt.os.linux.ubuntu:
    >> > On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 07:37:32 +0000, johnny bobby bee wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> Larry Blanchard wrote:
    >> >>> My point is that when I see something called "Archive Manager" with a
    >> >>> nice graphics interface, I have the (possibly unrealistic) expectation
    >> >>> that it will be useful :-).
    >> >>
    >> >> It is useful, like any other compression utility or graphical interface
    >> >> to archiving utilities such as tar and zip, is useful.
    >> >>
    >> >>> And not being able to log on as root without going to the command line
    >> >>> interface is irritating
    >> >>
    >> >> Jesus, not another 'wanting to log on as root' folks. Just be glad that
    >> >> you can't.
    >> >>
    >> >>> I'll go back to lurking now and meditating on my slowly increasing
    >> >>> senility :-).
    >> >>
    >> >> Just ask appropriate questions. Stop getting irritated. There are many
    >> >> backup utilities. Rsync (command line) is one of the best.
    >> >
    >> > OK, having read this and having used Acronis to image the machine weekly,
    >> > I think it may be time for me to expand my knowledge now that I am
    >> > spending more time using a Linux box for everything I do.
    >> >
    >> > Say I wanted to back up my Linux machine so I could take a empty hard
    >> > drive and then 'restore' to that. I don't want to have to start
    >> > installing OS's or apps. I don't care how bid the backup is. How would I
    >> > do this?
    >> >
    >> > I am thinking along the lines of;
    >> > Backup all files to a .tar file (to keep it contained)
    >> >
    >> > To restore:
    >> > Format a HDD for the correct FS type with a swap partition
    >> > Lauch a Live CD
    >> > Copy the .tar into the root directory and expand it
    >> >
    >> > Would this make a working 'mirror' of the machine?
    >> >

    >>
    >> Wouldn't dd be a better tool to do that? Theoretically,
    >> you can even backup your partition table using dd...

    >
    > dd is useful if backing up to a disk with the same size and geometry.
    > I'm not certain how well a different disk geometry is handled. But it
    > isn't safe to backup to a smaller disk. Backing up to a larger disk
    > should work, but I'm not sure if the partition table would be stable
    > enogh to repartition if desired after the fact.
    >
    > If the disks have different geometries, I'm not sure the bootloader
    > would work. Guessing grub might as it reads the filesystem, but
    > uncertain about Lilo which iirc uses a pointer.
    >
    > Michael C.


    That's true... I was thinking of disks with the same size/geometry.

    Saludos,
    AHG
    --
    As with the Christian religion, the worst advertisement for Socialism is
    its adherents.
    -- George Orwell
    08:57:20 up 1 day, 21 min, 3 users, load average: 0.38, 0.75, 1.00

  8. Re: @!#$%! backup

    Michael C. wrote:
    > dd is useful if backing up to a disk with the same size and geometry.
    > I'm not certain how well a different disk geometry is handled. But it
    > isn't safe to backup to a smaller disk.


    Sure it is:

    dd if=/dev/sda | gzip -c | cat > /mnt/backup/backup.dd.gz

    Easy as. Reverse it with:

    cat /mnt/backup/backup.dd.gz | gunzip -c | dd of=/dev/sda

    Play around with the blocksize variable to get the speed up.

    --
    Gareth Halfacree
    http://gareth.halfacree.co.uk

  9. Re: @!#$%! backup

    A J Hawke wrote:
    > On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 21:33:05 +0000, johnny bobby bee wrote:
    >
    >> A J Hawke wrote:
    >>> Would this make a working 'mirror' of the machine?

    >> You can also try these:
    >>
    >> http://www.clonezilla.org/
    >> http://gpartedclonz.tuxfamily.org/index.php
    >> http://www.partimage.org/Main_Page
    >>
    >> They work like Norton Ghost.

    >
    > Thanks for a useful response Johnny. These look interesting as I was
    > unaware of them.
    >


    I found g4u simple, flexible and useful.

    http://www.feyrer.de/g4u/
    g4u - Harddisk Image Cloning for PCs

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

  10. Re: @!#$%! backup

    In , on 07/02/08
    at 05:09 PM, Hans Kasper said:

    >You might want to look at dirvish, I use that mor many months now and it
    >saves me the trouble to write my own rsync scripts.


    There is a shareware disk managing utility called DFSEE (www.dfsee.com)
    which comes in versions for Linux, OS/2, Windows, and Dos, and has a Yahoo
    support group in which the program creator is very active. Among the
    things DFSEE does is create images of partitions or drives to another
    drive (internal or external), which can be used as backups (restore the
    image.) You can't image the OS you are currently using, but you can boot
    from the DFSEE cd you create, and image any or all partitions or drives.
    It's an excellent utility.

    I'm a registered user. With the author's help, I'm trying to get
    eComStation (OEM OS/2), to access my new external USB drive. I need to
    format part of the drive (came formatted NTFS) to a file system OS/2
    recognizes, as well as part of it to a file system the FreeDos the cd is
    based on can recognize, so I can image both my drives weekly. If a
    problem occurs on a drive, I could format the drive, and restore the
    latest image, or, if the drive went bad, restore the image to a new drive.


    Right now, I'm worried about one of my drives, though there's no evidence
    of trouble (age is the only issue.) I ordered a new one from Newegg.
    When it comes, my friend will attach it, and I'll use DFSEE to copy the
    current drive to the new one. I did that the last time I had to change a
    drive (went to a larger one - the smaller one now has Ubuntu on it, which
    I still hope to learn at least enough to get around. I'm not that good
    with computers - even OS/2, which I've used the longest, my knowledge of
    its use would probably be considered not much above novice. I have
    concentration and physcial problems, but I'd like to avoid Windows as much
    as possible.)


    Alan

    --

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  11. Re: @!#$%! backup

    On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 15:31:03 +0100,
    Gareth Robert Halfacree wrote:
    > Michael C. wrote:
    > > dd is useful if backing up to a disk with the same size and geometry.
    > > I'm not certain how well a different disk geometry is handled. But it
    > > isn't safe to backup to a smaller disk.

    >
    > Sure it is:
    >
    > dd if=/dev/sda | gzip -c | cat > /mnt/backup/backup.dd.gz
    >
    > Easy as. Reverse it with:
    >
    > cat /mnt/backup/backup.dd.gz | gunzip -c | dd of=/dev/sda
    >
    > Play around with the blocksize variable to get the speed up.


    OP was referring to mirroring, not just a backup.

    Michael C.
    --
    mjchappell@verizon.net http://mcsuper5.freeshell.org/

    The worst sin towards our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to
    be indifferent to them; that's the essence of inhumanity. - G.B. Shaw

  12. Re: @!#$%! backup

    On 2008-07-03, Michael C. wrote:
    > On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 15:31:03 +0100,
    > Gareth Robert Halfacree wrote:
    >> Michael C. wrote:
    >> > dd is useful if backing up to a disk with the same size and geometry.
    >> > I'm not certain how well a different disk geometry is handled. But it
    >> > isn't safe to backup to a smaller disk.

    >>
    >> Sure it is:
    >>
    >> dd if=/dev/sda | gzip -c | cat > /mnt/backup/backup.dd.gz
    >>
    >> Easy as. Reverse it with:
    >>
    >> cat /mnt/backup/backup.dd.gz | gunzip -c | dd of=/dev/sda
    >>
    >> Play around with the blocksize variable to get the speed up.

    >
    > OP was referring to mirroring, not just a backup.


    Really, if you look at the original question, he was asking about
    imaging or backing up completely to a compressed file...

    dd, as above can do just that. Very useful for backups of static
    partitions, though I probably wouldn't use it for something that
    changes a lot (/home, for instance)...


  13. Re: @!#$%! backup

    A J Hawke wrote:

    > Say I wanted to back up my Linux machine so I could take a empty hard
    > drive and then 'restore' to that. I don't want to have to start
    > installing OS's or apps. I don't care how bid the backup is. How would I
    > do this?
    >


    I might be able to help with that. Take a look at the manual page for
    du. We used to use Unix in SCADA systems and backed up by copying one
    hard drive to another of the same size after installation. Then do
    ordinary tar backups of changing data at whatever frequency you think
    necessary.

    If the original drive failed or got clobbered, we just took it out,
    plugged in the replacement, restored from the latest tar, and we were
    back in business.

  14. Re: @!#$%! backup

    Andres E. Hernando wrote:
    >
    > Wouldn't dd be a better tool to do that? Theoretically, you can even
    > backup your partition table using dd...
    >


    Oops! I said "du" instead of "dd" - told you I was getting senile :-).

    Sorry - of course dd is the utility for the job.

  15. Re: @!#$%! backup

    On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:57:58 -0700, Larry Blanchard wrote:

    > Andres E. Hernando wrote:
    >>
    >> Wouldn't dd be a better tool to do that? Theoretically, you can
    >> even
    >> backup your partition table using dd...
    >>
    >>

    > Oops! I said "du" instead of "dd" - told you I was getting senile :-).
    >
    > Sorry - of course dd is the utility for the job.


    My only concern were remarks about the drives needing to be identical in
    size and geometry with 'dd'.

    I don't discount Joe's suggestions in whole - but when someone wants to
    start trading insults it tends to put the heckles up on most people. The
    idea of backing up the settings and home directories is fine and is
    normal anyway - I just don't like the 'windows' way of having to
    reinstall the OS and apps. It was just the wider point of mirroring a
    machine that was more interesting to me and some excellent packages have
    been suggested.

    The only issue I can see with 'mirroring' are hardware differences. From
    experience Ubuntu I 'upset' Ubuntu when I swapped out a Thinkcentre with
    a dead PSU by just swapping the HDD. All worked OK apart from the NIC,
    which was moved to eth1 because of the differing MAC. It had failed to
    notice that eth0 had gone. It was a bit of a sod to resolve, but other
    than that no side effects.


    --
    begin broken-news-reader.exe

  16. Re: @!#$%! backup

    On 2008-07-04, A J Hawke wrote:
    > On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:57:58 -0700, Larry Blanchard wrote:
    >
    >> Andres E. Hernando wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Wouldn't dd be a better tool to do that? Theoretically, you can
    >>> even
    >>> backup your partition table using dd...
    >>>
    >>>

    >> Oops! I said "du" instead of "dd" - told you I was getting senile :-).
    >>
    >> Sorry - of course dd is the utility for the job.

    >
    > My only concern were remarks about the drives needing to be identical in
    > size and geometry with 'dd'.
    >
    > I don't discount Joe's suggestions in whole - but when someone wants to
    > start trading insults it tends to put the heckles up on most people. The
    > idea of backing up the settings and home directories is fine and is
    > normal anyway - I just don't like the 'windows' way of having to
    > reinstall the OS and apps. It was just the wider point of mirroring a
    > machine that was more interesting to me and some excellent packages have
    > been suggested.


    The "windows" way is the image. Reinstalling the OS and the apps in
    Windows takes days to get everything working. In linux, the same task
    takes an hour or two.

    As imaging cannot be done (at this time, anyhow) on a running system,
    using an image as a backup requires downtime. An effective backup can
    be had using the methods that have been described to you without ever
    taking the system down, or even interacting with it.

    I can see liking the idea of having an image of a fresh install with
    all of the apps, then layering a restore over it for user data, but
    considering that doing the same thing with an install disk doesn't
    take much more (if any) time, it just doesn't make much sense.

    And you can take what you will from it, but saying that you are being
    dense isn't an insult, it is an observation. Your feelings are
    unimportant to me, I say what I see. If that's a problem, I can live
    with that...

    >
    > The only issue I can see with 'mirroring' are hardware differences. From
    > experience Ubuntu I 'upset' Ubuntu when I swapped out a Thinkcentre with
    > a dead PSU by just swapping the HDD. All worked OK apart from the NIC,
    > which was moved to eth1 because of the differing MAC. It had failed to
    > notice that eth0 had gone. It was a bit of a sod to resolve, but other
    > than that no side effects.


    And there won't be. You can take your hard drive, place it in a new
    machine, and have everything pretty much work, with very little
    tweaking. There is no registry in Linux, so your hardware information
    is not stored. Modules are loaded as needed.


    --
    Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
    joe at hits - buffalo dot com
    "Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
    time..." - Danny, American History X

  17. Re: @!#$%! backup

    On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 03:25:01 -0500, Joe wrote:

    > And you can take what you will from it, but saying that you are being
    > dense isn't an insult, it is an observation. Your feelings are
    > unimportant to me, I say what I see. If that's a problem, I can live
    > with that...


    I think it went a bit further than 'dense'. It did not hurt my feelings
    Joe, but it does reflect in your credibility if you need to pad things
    out with insults. But as you are quick to point out, you can live with
    that.

    Just to cover your points I disagree with your view that the 'windows'
    way is to image things. Most 'average' users (whatever one of those is)
    resort to wiping the hard disk and starting again with a fresh install.
    Most backup their personal onto removable media. When they get sick of
    doing this they tend to look at the imaging options.

    >> The only issue I can see with 'mirroring' are hardware differences.
    >> From experience Ubuntu I 'upset' Ubuntu when I swapped out a
    >> Thinkcentre with a dead PSU by just swapping the HDD. All worked OK
    >> apart from the NIC, which was moved to eth1 because of the differing
    >> MAC. It had failed to notice that eth0 had gone. It was a bit of a sod
    >> to resolve, but other than that no side effects.

    >
    > And there won't be. You can take your hard drive, place it in a new
    > machine, and have everything pretty much work, with very little
    > tweaking. There is no registry in Linux, so your hardware information
    > is not stored. Modules are loaded as needed.


    Now I thank you for this, as it is useful information and not something I
    had really considered. When you play nice Joe, you are interesting to
    read.



    --
    begin broken-news-reader.exe

  18. Re: @!#$%! backup


    >
    >>> The only issue I can see with 'mirroring' are hardware differences.
    >>> From experience Ubuntu I 'upset' Ubuntu when I swapped out a
    >>> Thinkcentre with a dead PSU by just swapping the HDD. All worked OK
    >>> apart from the NIC, which was moved to eth1 because of the differing
    >>> MAC. It had failed to notice that eth0 had gone. It was a bit of a sod
    >>> to resolve, but other than that no side effects.


    I recently had a good experience swapping a HD to another PC.
    The disc contained a dual boot Wxp-Kubuntu and a separate partition for my
    personal data (music, films, mails, .....)

    I put the disc from my old PC to a completely new one.
    Kubuntu was up & running immediately and showed no problems apart from
    a few devices changing name (like eth1 instead of eth0)
    Windows was completely dead and impossible to revive because of the
    completely different HW environment

    This was for me the reason to format the windows partition and start working
    with Kubuntu exclusively.
    The only reason to still work with windows would be my X10 home automation,
    but in the mean time, I found a linux software that takes care of that too.

    --
    MarcB

  19. Re: @!#$%! backup

    A J Hawke wrote:

    > On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 07:37:32 +0000, johnny bobby bee wrote:
    >
    >> Larry Blanchard wrote:
    >>> My point is that when I see something called "Archive Manager" with a
    >>> nice graphics interface, I have the (possibly unrealistic) expectation
    >>> that it will be useful :-).

    >>
    >> It is useful, like any other compression utility or graphical interface
    >> to archiving utilities such as tar and zip, is useful.
    >>
    >>> And not being able to log on as root without going to the command line
    >>> interface is irritating

    >>
    >> Jesus, not another 'wanting to log on as root' folks. Just be glad that
    >> you can't.
    >>
    >>> I'll go back to lurking now and meditating on my slowly increasing
    >>> senility :-).

    >>
    >> Just ask appropriate questions. Stop getting irritated. There are many
    >> backup utilities. Rsync (command line) is one of the best.

    >
    > OK, having read this and having used Acronis to image the machine weekly,
    > I think it may be time for me to expand my knowledge now that I am
    > spending more time using a Linux box for everything I do.
    >
    > Say I wanted to back up my Linux machine so I could take a empty hard
    > drive and then 'restore' to that. I don't want to have to start
    > installing OS's or apps. I don't care how bid the backup is. How would I
    > do this?


    ,----[ mondo ]
    | Package: mondo
    |
    | Description: powerful disaster recovery suite
    | Mondo is reliable. It backs up your Debian GNU/Linux server
    | or workstation to tape, CD-R, CD-RW, NFS or hard disk
    | partition. In the event of catastrophic data loss, you will
    | be able to restore all of your data [or as much as you want],
    | from bare metal if necessary. Mondo is in use by numerous
    | blue-chip enterprises and large organizations, dozens of
    | smaller companies, and tens of thousands of users
    |
    | Mondo is comprehensive. Mondo supports LVM, RAID, ext2, ext3,
    | JFS, XFS, ReiserFS, VFAT, and can support additional file
    | systems easily. It supports adjustments in disk geometry,
    | including migration from non-RAID to RAID. Mondo runs on
    | all major Linux distributions and is getting better all the
    | time. You may even use it to backup non-Linux partitions,
    | such as NTFS
    |
    | Homepage: http://www.mondorescue.org
    `----



    Florian
    --

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    ** Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature, please! **
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

  20. Re: @!#$%! backup

    On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 16:00:50 +0200, Florian Diesch wrote:

    > A J Hawke wrote:
    >
    >> On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 07:37:32 +0000, johnny bobby bee wrote:
    >>
    >>> Larry Blanchard wrote:
    >>>> My point is that when I see something called "Archive Manager" with a
    >>>> nice graphics interface, I have the (possibly unrealistic)
    >>>> expectation that it will be useful :-).
    >>>
    >>> It is useful, like any other compression utility or graphical
    >>> interface to archiving utilities such as tar and zip, is useful.
    >>>
    >>>> And not being able to log on as root without going to the command
    >>>> line interface is irritating
    >>>
    >>> Jesus, not another 'wanting to log on as root' folks. Just be glad
    >>> that you can't.
    >>>
    >>>> I'll go back to lurking now and meditating on my slowly increasing
    >>>> senility :-).
    >>>
    >>> Just ask appropriate questions. Stop getting irritated. There are many
    >>> backup utilities. Rsync (command line) is one of the best.

    >>
    >> OK, having read this and having used Acronis to image the machine
    >> weekly, I think it may be time for me to expand my knowledge now that I
    >> am spending more time using a Linux box for everything I do.
    >>
    >> Say I wanted to back up my Linux machine so I could take a empty hard
    >> drive and then 'restore' to that. I don't want to have to start
    >> installing OS's or apps. I don't care how bid the backup is. How would
    >> I do this?

    >
    > ,----[ mondo ]
    > | Package: mondo
    > |
    > | Description: powerful disaster recovery suite | Mondo is reliable. It
    > backs up your Debian GNU/Linux server | or workstation to tape, CD-R,
    > CD-RW, NFS or hard disk | partition. In the event of catastrophic data
    > loss, you will | be able to restore all of your data [or as much as you
    > want], | from bare metal if necessary. Mondo is in use by numerous |
    > blue-chip enterprises and large organizations, dozens of | smaller
    > companies, and tens of thousands of users |
    > | Mondo is comprehensive. Mondo supports LVM, RAID, ext2, ext3, | JFS,
    > XFS, ReiserFS, VFAT, and can support additional file | systems easily.
    > It supports adjustments in disk geometry, | including migration from
    > non-RAID to RAID. Mondo runs on | all major Linux distributions and is
    > getting better all the | time. You may even use it to backup non-Linux
    > partitions, | such as NTFS
    > |
    > | Homepage: http://www.mondorescue.org `----
    >
    >
    >
    > Florian


    Now that is good. If I could get it to work with Samba then I would be
    cooking on gas!

    --
    Dog walks down the road. Gust of wind. Dog inside out.
    I've replaced my 'old joke' signature because a better man than me told
    me to ;-)

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