Mum & Dad will never use a Linux machine - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on Mum & Dad will never use a Linux machine - Ubuntu ; Ben wrote: > Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> On 2008-07-15, Bob Martin wrote: >>> in 63687 20080715 041713 Ben wrote: >>>> John F. Morse wrote: >>>>> If not, forgive me for not recognizing someone who has all the >>>>> answers. ...

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Thread: Mum & Dad will never use a Linux machine

  1. Re: Mum & Dad will never use a Linux machine

    Ben wrote:
    > Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
    >> On 2008-07-15, Bob Martin wrote:
    >>> in 63687 20080715 041713 Ben wrote:
    >>>> John F. Morse wrote:
    >>>>> If not, forgive me for not recognizing someone who has all the
    >>>>> answers.
    >>>>> All-seeing and all-knowing in all the matters of all other's computer
    >>>>> knowledge and every use.
    >>>> Speak for yourself, I'm talking about making the OS more accessible
    >>>> and
    >>>> less intimidating to new users switching from Windows, which seems a
    >>>> rather impossible feat here, even with software like Synaptic et
    >>>> cetera
    >>>> invented for exactly that purpose. I understand that you like doing
    >>>> things from the command line, a lot of newbies switching from Windows,
    >>>> don't.
    >>> The CLI is more intuitive and natural to human beings.

    >>
    >> That was confirmed by this study:
    >> .
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Ok, you're giving me a study saying that CLIs are more "natural" to
    > humans than a GUI. Firstly, this study begs the question of the
    > success of the GUI and why people choose it over using a CLI.
    > Secondly, to quote the article:
    >
    > "The key thing to remember about these newbies that I taught is that
    > they were not in any way stupid or slow. Many of them had mastered
    > complex technical jobs and excelled in their chosen field."
    >
    > These people, while not having a clue when it comes to computers, are
    > still technically-minded. They are engineers and the likes. Yes,
    > things like a CLI will, with a bit of practice, come quickly to this
    > kind of person.
    >
    > To re-iterate what I said before in this post, it begs the question of
    > why the typical user turns to the eye-candy of Windows and Mac, where
    > today using the CLI is almost always unnecessary for the average user,
    > and why they refuse to consider OSs like Linux, which offer the CLI as
    > a solution for nearly everything and seems to intimidate them. I can't
    > imagine trying to teach the CLI to my boss at the youth centre I work
    > at, which has a network of about 30 computers and a server, especially
    > since he's the only person who can perform small admin jobs on the
    > server and workstations while I'm away. The way it is with a GUI, he
    > can quickly get the network back up in a couple of minutes most of the
    > time when it goes down, and I get a call maybe once every 3 months
    > when I'm not in work and something goes wrong that he can't fix. I
    > dread to imagine what kind of look he'd give me if I tried to teach
    > him to use the CLI to fix everything. I'd get a lot more phone calls
    > asking for help, I can guarantee that.



    You obviously do not understand. Let's leave the CLI vs. GUI debate to
    some advocacy group.

    They may want to also answer your question about why you believe
    "average" users refuse to consider OSes like Linux.

    Perhaps someone will clue you in that most "average" users had Windows
    forced upon them by Micr0$lut, and they don't know any better.

    As far as I'm concerned, let them swim in the Windows Sea. I certainly
    wouldn't want their lazy, stupid genes polluting a good OS pool.

    Now stop trolling with the same useless argument.


    --
    John

    No Microsoft, Apple, AT&T, Intel, Novell, Trend Micro, nor Ford products were used in the preparation or transmission of this message.

    The EULA sounds like it was written by a team of lawyers who want to tell me what I can't do. The GPL sounds like it was written by a human being, who wants me to know what I can do.

  2. Re: Mum & Dad will never use a Linux machine

    In article , Ben wrote:
    >WhKw wrote:
    >> "Ben" wrote in message
    >> news:g5j440$b21$1@news.mixmin.net...
    >>
    >>> To re-iterate what I said before in this post, it begs the question of why
    >>> the typical user turns to the eye-candy of Windows and Mac, where today
    >>> using the CLI is almost always unnecessary for the average user, and why
    >>> they refuse to consider OSs like Linux, which offer the CLI as a solution
    >>> for nearly everything and seems to intimidate them.

    >>
    >> It's because the average user is much smarter than any linsux user. The
    >> linsuxers prove that point everytime they open their brown stained mouths


    >No; the problem isn't with the OS, it has everything there. The problem
    >is that people are coaxed into using the CLI when a GUI would be far
    >better suited to their needs.


    For what needs ? I choose efficient over inefficient. Using that criteria,
    CLI is way better. "Easy" ? ... well, once you have learned a bit, CLI/GUI
    are no easier or harder than each other. Use the appropriate interface for
    the appropriate task. Windows currently (and for about 10 + years now ?)
    tries to tell you that there is no CLI. Why would this option not be good as
    a choice ? Choices are good. Being told how I want to do something is bad
    (and almost always, wrong ).


  3. Re: Mum & Dad will never use a Linux machine

    Ben wrote:
    > WhKw wrote:
    >> "Ben" wrote in message
    >> news:g5j440$b21$1@news.mixmin.net...
    >>
    >>> To re-iterate what I said before in this post, it begs the question
    >>> of why the typical user turns to the eye-candy of Windows and Mac,
    >>> where today using the CLI is almost always unnecessary for the
    >>> average user, and why they refuse to consider OSs like Linux, which
    >>> offer the CLI as a solution for nearly everything and seems to
    >>> intimidate them.

    >>
    >> It's because the average user is much smarter than any linsux user.
    >> The linsuxers prove that point everytime they open their brown
    >> stained mouths
    >>

    >
    > No; the problem isn't with the OS, it has everything there. The
    > problem is that people are coaxed into using the CLI when a GUI would
    > be far better suited to their needs.



    That's just your opinion, and a poor one at that.

    But you are entitled to express it.


    --
    John

    No Microsoft, Apple, AT&T, Intel, Novell, Trend Micro, nor Ford products were used in the preparation or transmission of this message.

    The EULA sounds like it was written by a team of lawyers who want to tell me what I can't do. The GPL sounds like it was written by a human being, who wants me to know what I can do.

  4. Re: Mum & Dad will never use a Linux machine

    Ben wrote:
    > Joe wrote:
    >> On 2008-07-15, Ben wrote:

    >
    >>
    >> If they are average users, they don't plan on doing these things
    >> repeatedly, anyhow, so no need to really learn them. The commands
    >> that are given to them are generally very easy to understand, and
    >> remove a fair bit of generalization.
    >>

    >
    > Still, they won't be independent, and they'll probably keep running to
    > forums every time they re-install the OS, have a problem, or get a new PC.



    They will certainly be independent on any GUI front end -- if one exists!


    >> sudo apt-get install vlc
    >>
    >> Works in Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu. It works in Debian. It works in
    >> Mint. It works in pretty much *ANY* debian-based install. Synaptic
    >> does not exist in many of those. This forum is for the support of
    >> any Ubuntu distro.
    >>

    >
    > Again, few of them will remember it by heart, and they're going to hit
    > Google, or a forum, every time something goes wrong instead of just
    > going through a graphical install wizard like they can with Windows.



    The heart has no memory. I use a notebook to help my aging brain, where
    my memory resides.

    Perhaps if Windows users would use their brain instead of their heart,
    they would be wiser?


    >> Sure it is, but it is not the most effiecient, or necessarily the
    >> best way to do many things. It is slower, harder to convey through
    >> text, and usually does not have all of the options that the cli
    >> version will have.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > The average user isn't usually going to notice that it's a bit slower,
    > and often, just won't care as long as it doesn't take all day to do
    > everything, and software like Synaptic etc. are pretty efficient,
    > anyway, so taking all day isn't a concern.



    Maybe not to you, Mr. Average. That is the whole problem with your
    philosophy. You do not yet have what it takes to make a decision for
    yourself, let alone the "average" users.

    Now, kindly bugger off.


    --
    John

    No Microsoft, Apple, AT&T, Intel, Novell, Trend Micro, nor Ford products were used in the preparation or transmission of this message.

    The EULA sounds like it was written by a team of lawyers who want to tell me what I can't do. The GPL sounds like it was written by a human being, who wants me to know what I can do.

  5. Re: Mum & Dad will never use a Linux machine

    Ben illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:

    >
    > Thirdly, yes it is very easy for a beginner user to copy/paste from a
    > forum into the CLI. But barking CLI instructions at them doesn't do much
    > in the way of developing their ability to use the OS independently, does
    > it?


    Actually, Ben. That is *exactly* how and why my knowledge of Linux (and
    Ubuntu specifically) has increased exponentially over the last few
    years.

    What you see as "barking", I see as sound advice.

    I have taken all of the advice I was given as it was meant. I firstly
    tried to understand what it was doing for me and then applied that to
    my experience.

    Sure. There are GUI ways to achieve a task, but these (as Joe said)
    differ quite considerably between different Window Managers and
    distros. The CLI is the same (or similar) cross platform.

    I appreciate that people are giving advice in forums and newsgroups
    for nothing. They do not have a limitless amount of time to explain
    every different way of doing something.

    Linux is great. Ubuntu is superb. It only takes a few minutes to read
    and digest advice given. If you (or any new user) is incapable of
    that, then I'm afraid Linux isn't quite for them. They need one of
    those toy OS's.

    --
    "I was sleeping the other night, alone, thanks to the exterminator." ~
    Emo Philips

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