Vista users. Why bother to answer them? - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on Vista users. Why bother to answer them? - Ubuntu ; On Sat, 07 Jun 2008 16:02:56 -0700, Mike Easter wrote: >>> If you want to find a good deal on a computer, I would recommend that >>> you buy one with Vista preinstalled. If you don't want Vista on a ...

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Thread: Vista users. Why bother to answer them?

  1. Re: Vista users. Why bother to answer them?

    On Sat, 07 Jun 2008 16:02:56 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

    >>> If you want to find a good deal on a computer, I would recommend that
    >>> you buy one with Vista preinstalled. If you don't want Vista on a
    >>> partition, blast it off there and install a linux distro -- but you
    >>> won't have a chance to downgrade the Vista to XP or anything like that.


    >> You can always install a copy of XP that you already own, of course.


    > The most common way that XP license has been sold in the past is not with
    > providing the computer purchaser with a 'genuine' MS XP disk, but instead
    > to provide the purchaser with an installed XP, and with an image of that
    > install, or maybe with some disks with an image of that install.


    Yeah, well, that may apply to those who purchased "pre-assembled" XP
    computers from HP/Dell/Gateway/etc..., but not for those of us who have
    been building our own from parts for years.

    > So, no, you can't install a copy of XP in your Vista box under those
    > circumstances.


    "Those circumstances" are something that you assumed, and brought into the
    conversation on your own. That isn't what *I* was talking about.

    > How many people do you know who own a genuine legitimate
    > MS install disk? Where did they get it and at what cost?


    I know plenty of people like that. Speaking for myself, I own 3 copies of
    XP, all legitimately purchased as stand-alone products. It wasn't that
    long ago (less than a year?) that you could go to any computer store and
    buy a copy. I got mine at Best Buy and Circuit City, IIRC. Don't
    remember the actual cost, but that's irrelevant anyway.

    >> The secondary problem these days is that it can be nearly impossible to
    >> find XP drivers for the newly purchased hardware, especially with
    >> laptops. This makes it very difficult or even impossible to run XP on a
    >> system purchased with Vista preinstalled.


    > That's what OEMs such as HP are telling the people who ask them
    > questions about using XP on the HP machines which have been sold with
    > Vista. They are telling them that they aren't providing HP XP drivers.


    Isn't that what I just said?

    > If you 'follow my advice' (above) and buy a box with Vista preinstalled,
    > you would be better off in terms of general compatibility in many cases,
    > to replace it with a linux distro, not with XP. The Vista isn't going
    > to have any drivers for older peripherals and the Vista isn't going to
    > be able to run some of the old software for XP.


    Look, dude. I don't use Windows (at all), myself. I have a family that
    does, and that's why I own copies of XP, and now a set of "recovery disks"
    for the preinstalled Vista that came on a new laptop. You don't need to
    advise me on what "I'd be better off with". I'm quite aware of that
    already, and have been for many years.

    My original point remains, that being that it is VERY difficult to get XP
    running on a newly purchased system that came with Vista preinstalled,
    because of lack of XP drivers for it. Don't try to twist anything else
    out of that. It's that simple, and it's the truth.


    --
    "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
    Now filtering out all posts originating from Google Groups.
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org


  2. Re: Vista users. Why bother to answer them?

    TomB wrote:
    > On 2008-06-07, Bill wrote:
    >
    >> Bill Baka (now 90% Ubuntu).

    >
    > O_o
    >
    > We are the Ubuntu. We will assimilate you. Resistance is futile.
    >
    > Scary, although I'd die to see 7-of-9 in a Human-themed outfit.
    >


    I prefer T'pol. I'd pray to her.

  3. Re: Vista users. Why bother to answer them?

    > can be done in Linux, especially Ubuntu. Once that is done, my XP home
    > will just be a non-internet shell for a few bitchy CAD programs.


    Some websites are IE-only.

    > Vista users who actually admit it top (almost) my stupid list.
    > Advice==sudo apt-get brains.


    You could always use VMWare Player to run both XP and Vi$ta.

    --
    @~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
    / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
    /( _ )\ (Xubuntu 8.04) Linux 2.6.25.5
    ^ ^ 19:52:01 up 1 day 6:22 1 user load average: 1.02 1.04 1.00
    (CSSA):
    http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...ub_addressesa/

  4. Re: Vista users. Why bother to answer them?

    Ed Edelenbos wrote:
    > change? It seems to me that every iteration of Windows is successively
    > resource hungry and forward facing with drivers and such. Whenever it has


    http://hubpages.com/hub/_86_Mac_Plus...lieve_Who_Wins

    --
    Wes Groleau

    Always listen to experts. They'll tell you
    what can't be done and why. Then do it.
    -- Robert A. Heinlein

  5. Re: Vista users. Why bother to answer them?


    "Wes Groleau" wrote in message
    news:nER2k.2773$lE3.2235@trnddc05...
    > Ed Edelenbos wrote:
    >> change? It seems to me that every iteration of Windows is successively
    >> resource hungry and forward facing with drivers and such. Whenever it
    >> has

    >
    > http://hubpages.com/hub/_86_Mac_Plus...lieve_Who_Wins
    >
    > --
    > Wes Groleau
    >


    I don't doubt the numbers. I do doubt that you'll find anyone who will
    chose the Mac Plus (and Sys 6) over the AMD (and xp) in the article, though.
    I have a SE30 w/Sys 7 that should blow the pants of both of them for anyone
    in the market. (grin)

    Ed



  6. Re: Vista users. Why bother to answer them?



    "Wes Groleau" wrote in message
    news:nER2k.2773$lE3.2235@trnddc05...
    > Ed Edelenbos wrote:
    >> change? It seems to me that every iteration of Windows is successively
    >> resource hungry and forward facing with drivers and such. Whenever it
    >> has

    >
    > http://hubpages.com/hub/_86_Mac_Plus...lieve_Who_Wins


    Good figures but, like most of the ones quoted in these groups meaningless
    to real users.

    Who actually turns their windows computer off rather than just
    suspending/hibernating it?
    Who even exits from word and other applications when starting another?

    And that AMD machine must be horribly slow, my notebook does everything in
    those tests faster and its only a 1.8G core 2 duo.
    I think the main thing the tests show is just how poor that desktop is.



  7. Re: Vista users. Why bother to answer them?

    On 06/07/2008 07:18 PM Mike Easter scribbled:

    > jrg wrote:
    >> Mike Easter scribbled:

    >
    >>> If you want to find a good deal on a computer, I would recommend that
    >>> you buy one with Vista preinstalled. If you don't want Vista on a
    >>> partition, blast it off there and install a linux distro -- but you
    >>> won't have a chance to downgrade the Vista to XP or anything like that.
    >>>

    >> I just went through a nightmare ridding a box of XP. BTW, you provided
    >> help to me in the SC geeks group a couple weeks ago, TYVM. Mepis ain't
    >> all that review said it was - had a lot more problems than Ubuntu -
    >> staying with gnome...

    >
    > If I recall, you had some gnome vs kde questions and someone else
    > suggested mepis, (clickety clickety, here it is) and then I said this:
    >
    >
    > Mike Easter wrote:
    >> ken wrote:
    >>
    >>> If you were to try a different distro, and think kde is the way to go,
    >>> you should take a look at SimplyMEPIS 7.01 pretty slick
    >>> www.mepis.org

    >> Mepis is an example of a kde-centric distro which uses synaptic instead
    >> of adept and some other of its own touches. Great user's manual.
    >>
    >> Review here http://www.linux.com/feature/124919 SimplyMEPIS 7.0 is a
    >> keeper - By Susan Linton
    >>
    >> Susan is an experienced reviewer.

    >


    yes, you did. After reading said review, I tried it out. Turned out I
    didn't care for KDE all that much and like the ubuntu feel a lot better.

  8. Re: Vista users. Why bother to answer them?

    Ed Edelenbos wrote:
    > I don't doubt the numbers. I do doubt that you'll find anyone who will
    > chose the Mac Plus (and Sys 6) over the AMD (and xp) in the article, though.


    Which is what the author also said.

    I wouldn't think of choosing either of them
    over newer hardware and Kubuntu or Mac OS X

    But coming out even surprised me.

    --
    Wes Groleau
    "Grant me the serenity to accept those I cannot change;
    the courage to change the one I can;
    and the wisdom to know it's me."
    -- unknown

  9. Re: Vista users. Why bother to answer them?

    Wes Groleau wrote:
    > But coming out even surprised me.


    It's not that "coming out" surprised even me. :-)

    It's that I was surprised by them "coming out even." :-)

    --
    Wes Groleau

    Pat's Polemics = http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett

  10. Re: Vista users. Why bother to answer them?

    Cork Soaker wrote:
    > TomB wrote:
    >> On 2008-06-07, Bill wrote:
    >>
    >>> Bill Baka (now 90% Ubuntu).

    >>
    >> O_o
    >>
    >> We are the Ubuntu. We will assimilate you. Resistance is futile.
    >>
    >> Scary, although I'd die to see 7-of-9 in a Human-themed outfit.
    >>

    >
    > I prefer T'pol. I'd pray to her.


    Since you guys went Off Topic, how about Trisha Helfer from BSG?
    Those skin tight red dresses always make me forget the plot.
    Bill Baka

  11. Re: Vista users. Why bother to answer them?

    Mike Easter wrote:
    > Dan C wrote:
    >> Mike Easter wrote:
    >>
    >>> If you want to find a good deal on a computer, I would recommend that
    >>> you buy one with Vista preinstalled. If you don't want Vista on a
    >>> partition, blast it off there and install a linux distro -- but you
    >>> won't have a chance to downgrade the Vista to XP or anything like that.

    >> You can always install a copy of XP that you already own, of course.

    >
    > The most common way that XP license has been sold in the past is not with
    > providing the computer purchaser with a 'genuine' MS XP disk, but instead
    > to provide the purchaser with an installed XP, and with an image of that
    > install, or maybe with some disks with an image of that install. So, no,
    > you can't install a copy of XP in your Vista box under those
    > circumstances. How many people do you know who own a genuine legitimate
    > MS install disk? Where did they get it and at what cost?


    In my case I have 2000 professional, not because I stole it, but because
    it was loaned to me from work to install at home. I left it at home and
    the next week 11/06/01 I got laid off along with a lot of other people.
    Drive home (150 miles), get the disk and drive another 300 miles round
    trip to return it again? No way, so I now have a disk as part of my
    severance package. My cheapest way to go was to buy an XP home upgrade.
    The M$ **** wants me to put the disk in to verify that I 'qualify' to do
    the upgrade. I do actually own purchased NT disks, and it accepts those.
    >
    >> The secondary problem these days is that it can be nearly impossible to
    >> find XP drivers for the newly purchased hardware, especially with
    >> laptops. This makes it very difficult or even impossible to run XP on a
    >> system purchased with Vista preinstalled.


    I have some equipment, scanners, that won't even play with XP.
    HP, SCSI interface, after the card software is enstalled.
    Visioneer, printer port interface, worse since they were purchased by
    another conglomerate who refuses to support anything not theirs.
    HP, 1 year old, USB, that still won't work under Linux, and marginally
    under XP.
    >
    > That's what OEMs such as HP are telling the people who ask them questions
    > about using XP on the HP machines which have been sold with Vista. They
    > are telling them that they aren't providing HP XP drivers.


    I don't know if that is fallout from 'Carly Fiorina' making the
    boneheaded decision to buy Compaq or HURD being a "New or nothing" kind
    of CEO. Still since I have most of what I want working under Ubuntu,
    there is now way in hell I will buy something that does not work with
    (A) Linux, or (B) XP, and only if I desperately need that function.
    >
    > If you 'follow my advice' (above) and buy a box with Vista preinstalled,
    > you would be better off in terms of general compatibility in many cases,
    > to replace it with a linux distro, not with XP. The Vista isn't going to
    > have any drivers for older peripherals and the Vista isn't going to be
    > able to run some of the old software for XP.


    My problem with that is that Gates will claim that as yet another Vista
    sale to brag about. My solution would be to buy another hard drive and
    put M$ on the last possible connection and label it 'X' or even 'J' for
    junk. That is if you have a BIOS that allows you to boot from almost
    anything. My Award on an ASUS board does just that.
    Bill Baka
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > Mike Easter
    >


  12. Re: Vista users. Why bother to answer them?

    dennis@home wrote:
    >
    > Who actually turns their windows computer off rather than just
    > suspending/hibernating it?
    > Who even exits from word and other applications when starting another?


    Me, for one, on both counts. Word? Try Open Office. If I am out for the
    day or trying to sleep (computer in my bedroom) the computer goes off.
    I have a wireless router/firewall left on for my daughter's college
    work, but I don't want to burn the electricity at the high rates here in
    California.
    >
    > And that AMD machine must be horribly slow, my notebook does everything
    > in those tests faster and its only a 1.8G core 2 duo.
    > I think the main thing the tests show is just how poor that desktop is.
    >
    >

    Amen. That article left more questions about the author than the computers.
    Bill Baka


  13. Re: Vista users. Why bother to answer them?

    Doug Jamal wrote:
    >> Bill wrote:>

    >
    >
    >>> Yes, I said Vista users are STUPID, and I actually meant it.

    > >
    >
    > C'mon, Sir. That is a STUPID comment and you know it.
    >
    >

    Shall I say 'impaired' or just too damned dumb to read something other
    than magazines on the store shelves. All of my professional Electronics
    magazines are still warning against Vista and still saying you would be
    better off waiting until M$ can bring out a system that WORKS.
    I could even post URLs to articles like "Vista, still not ready for
    prime time", and many more like that.
    Beyond that, our national IQ is going down the drain along with our
    educational system, and an influx of Mexicans who could care less if the
    Internet is not is Spanish for them. Not a racial slur, just truth.
    Bill Baka

  14. Re: Vista users. Why bother to answer them?

    jrg wrote:
    > On 06/07/2008 02:51 PM Bill scribbled:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > sudo apt-get brains
    >
    > great sig material...


    Yeah, thanks.
    I might build a sign off sig with something like that just to piss off
    windows users.
    Bill Baka

  15. Re: Vista users. Why bother to answer them?

    On 2008-06-09, Bill intrigued me by typing:
    > Doug Jamal wrote:
    >>> Bill wrote:>

    >>
    >>
    >>>> Yes, I said Vista users are STUPID, and I actually meant it.

    >> >
    >>
    >> C'mon, Sir. That is a STUPID comment and you know it.
    >>
    >>

    > Shall I say 'impaired' or just too damned dumb to read something other
    > than magazines on the store shelves.


    Negotiable

    > All of my professional Electronics
    > magazines are still warning against Vista and still saying you would be
    > better off waiting until M$ can bring out a system that WORKS.


    Very True

    > I could even post URLs to articles like "Vista, still not ready for
    > prime time", and many more like that.


    I'm with you here.

    > Beyond that, our national IQ is going down the drain along with our
    > educational system,


    Amen to that one, brother.

    > and an influx of Mexicans who could care less if the
    > Internet is not is Spanish for them. Not a racial slur, just truth.
    > Bill Baka


    Did you get it all out? Dang Man, breathe (smile). Seriously, I really do
    see your point(s). Many people who read your post would definitely agree
    with you whether they admit it or not, however, my disagreement was in you
    calling Vista users stupid. If grandma went and purchased a new computer
    for whatever purpose, more than likely that omputer will come preinstalled
    with Vista on it. That doesn't make grandma stupid for using an OS that
    came with the computer she purchased. Depending on her usage, it may or may
    not be perfect for her. Yet, for those of us who have been in computing
    using various OSes from way back when to now, we are a bit more informed
    about certain things including the constraints of Vista. Wouldn't you
    agree? Anyway, take care and stay safe.

    --
    Just Me, D
    Linux User# 454411
    Ubuntu User# 16887

  16. Re: Vista users. Why bother to answer them?


    "Doug Jamal" wrote in message
    news:484d9a16$0$4079$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
    > On 2008-06-09, Bill intrigued me by typing:
    >> Doug Jamal wrote:
    >>>> Bill wrote:>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>> Yes, I said Vista users are STUPID, and I actually meant it.
    >>> >
    >>>
    >>> C'mon, Sir. That is a STUPID comment and you know it.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> Shall I say 'impaired' or just too damned dumb to read something other
    >> than magazines on the store shelves.

    >
    > Negotiable
    >
    >> All of my professional Electronics
    >> magazines are still warning against Vista and still saying you would be
    >> better off waiting until M$ can bring out a system that WORKS.

    >
    > Very True
    >
    >> I could even post URLs to articles like "Vista, still not ready for
    >> prime time", and many more like that.

    >
    > I'm with you here.
    >
    >> Beyond that, our national IQ is going down the drain along with our
    >> educational system,

    >
    > Amen to that one, brother.
    >
    >> and an influx of Mexicans who could care less if the
    >> Internet is not is Spanish for them. Not a racial slur, just truth.
    >> Bill Baka

    >
    > Did you get it all out? Dang Man, breathe (smile). Seriously, I really
    > do
    > see your point(s). Many people who read your post would definitely agree
    > with you whether they admit it or not, however, my disagreement was in you
    > calling Vista users stupid. If grandma went and purchased a new computer
    > for whatever purpose, more than likely that omputer will come preinstalled
    > with Vista on it. That doesn't make grandma stupid for using an OS that
    > came with the computer she purchased. Depending on her usage, it may or
    > may
    > not be perfect for her. Yet, for those of us who have been in computing
    > using various OSes from way back when to now, we are a bit more informed
    > about certain things including the constraints of Vista. Wouldn't you
    > agree? Anyway, take care and stay safe.
    >
    > --
    > Just Me, D
    > Linux User# 454411
    > Ubuntu User# 16887


    For some people it is more than an os. It is a gospel. The same people
    think you shouldn't use nails because you can't put them in with a
    screwdriver.

    Ed



  17. Re: Vista users. Why bother to answer them?

    Doug Jamal wrote:
    > On 2008-06-09, Bill intrigued me by typing:


    >> All of my professional Electronics
    >> magazines are still warning against Vista and still saying you would be
    >> better off waiting until M$ can bring out a system that WORKS.

    >
    > Very True
    >
    >> I could even post URLs to articles like "Vista, still not ready for
    >> prime time", and many more like that.

    >
    > I'm with you here.


    I get everything from Electronic Design to NASA Tech Briefs, and
    Software test and Design, plus about 30 more, and in the same magazine I
    can read an article about how bad Vista is and the next page will be a
    full page ad for Vista. M$ has no choice but to advertise because if
    they pulled the ads from magazines that are exposing them they would
    lose all the magazines.
    >
    >> Beyond that, our national IQ is going down the drain along with our
    >> educational system,

    >
    > Amen to that one, brother.
    >
    >> and an influx of Mexicans who could care less if the
    >> Internet is not is Spanish for them. Not a racial slur, just truth.
    >> Bill Baka

    >
    > Did you get it all out? Dang Man, breathe (smile). Seriously, I really do
    > see your point(s). Many people who read your post would definitely agree
    > with you whether they admit it or not, however, my disagreement was in you
    > calling Vista users stupid.


    I should have said what I was trying to convey, and that was referring
    to people who actually buy Vista off the shelf like good little M$ drones.

    If grandma went and purchased a new computer
    > for whatever purpose, more than likely that omputer will come preinstalled
    > with Vista on it. That doesn't make grandma stupid for using an OS that
    > came with the computer she purchased.


    I wasn't trying to imply that. My sister bought a laptop with XP on it
    and while she is very intelligent, she is also 73 and not inclined to
    mess with something like crossing over to Linux.

    Depending on her usage, it may or may
    > not be perfect for her. Yet, for those of us who have been in computing
    > using various OSes from way back when to now, we are a bit more informed
    > about certain things including the constraints of Vista. Wouldn't you
    > agree?


    I agree 100%. I'm just a knowledge junkie and always have been. Now that
    it is summer I will be away from the computer and on a bicycle more,
    trying to get this 60 year old body in Lance Armstrong shape. I wish.

    Anyway, take care and stay safe.
    >

    Thanks,
    I'll try not to lose an argument with a semi.
    Bill Baka

  18. Re: Vista users. Why bother to answer them?

    Ed Edelenbos wrote:
    > For some people it is more than an os. It is a gospel. The same people
    > think you shouldn't use nails because you can't put them in with a
    > screwdriver.
    >
    > Ed
    >
    >

    I've seen that. Then there are the Dan C. types who only want to insult.
    My C: 1.5GB drive is FAT32 and DOS is living happily there, and I am
    using other distros like SUSE, Debian, and more. I am slowly letting the
    XP die off as I find the Linux community as a whole has most of what I
    need. I'm distro agnostic, but I do spend most of my newsgroup time here.
    Bill Baka

  19. Re: Vista users. Why bother to answer them?

    Ed Edelenbos wrote:
    >
    > LOL. Go back on the meds, dude. Some of your sentences don't parse.
    > You're obviously becoming irrational over it. It's just software. They
    > should limit your online time there at the home.
    >
    > If you buy hardware that won't run your software or software that won't run
    > on your hardware, whose fault is it?
    >
    > Ed
    >
    >

    ED,
    Insulting me for stating the obvious just makes you look like the fool.
    Sometimes I do post half asleep, but then again, I am not writing a book
    in which case I would actually proofread it and have some literate
    friends read it before publishing. What was irrational about ignoring
    Vista users posting here? They just discredit themselves by admitting
    they use it.

    As for you half witted statement about buying hardware, I am talking
    about people whose existing hardware won't run Vista, effectively
    forcing them to buy a new computer.

    As to your insults, they are meaningless unless you stand in front of a
    mirror and vocalize them.

    I may be a few months away from the big 60, but hardly stupid, as you
    seem to be proving yourself.

    I'm going out for a 50 mile bicycle ride now before it gets too hot.
    See ya, dip****,
    Bill Baka (healthy body, healthy mind (good blood flow to brain))

  20. Re: Vista users. Why bother to answer them?


    "Bill" wrote in message
    news:hTw3k.7714$xZ.1262@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
    > Ed Edelenbos wrote:
    >>
    >> LOL. Go back on the meds, dude. Some of your sentences don't parse.
    >> You're obviously becoming irrational over it. It's just software. They
    >> should limit your online time there at the home.
    >>
    >> If you buy hardware that won't run your software or software that won't
    >> run on your hardware, whose fault is it?
    >>
    >> Ed

    > ED,
    > Insulting me for stating the obvious just makes you look like the fool.
    > Sometimes I do post half asleep, but then again, I am not writing a book
    > in which case I would actually proofread it and have some literate friends
    > read it before publishing. What was irrational about ignoring Vista users
    > posting here? They just discredit themselves by admitting they use it.
    >
    > As for you half witted statement about buying hardware, I am talking about
    > people whose existing hardware won't run Vista, effectively forcing them
    > to buy a new computer.
    >
    > As to your insults, they are meaningless unless you stand in front of a
    > mirror and vocalize them.
    >
    > I may be a few months away from the big 60, but hardly stupid, as you seem
    > to be proving yourself.
    >
    > I'm going out for a 50 mile bicycle ride now before it gets too hot.
    > See ya, dip****,
    > Bill Baka (healthy body, healthy mind (good blood flow to brain))


    Before or after medication?

    Have a nice day, Bunky.

    Ed



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