Another problem with Sudo - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on Another problem with Sudo - Ubuntu ; Wes Groleau wrote: > John F. Morse wrote: >> Perhaps young whippersnappers can remember a bunch of hash, but old >> people often forget to bring up their fly. ;-) >> >> If you have dozens of computers, multiple user ...

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Thread: Another problem with Sudo

  1. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    Wes Groleau wrote:
    > John F. Morse wrote:
    >> Perhaps young whippersnappers can remember a bunch of hash, but old
    >> people often forget to bring up their fly. ;-)
    >>
    >> If you have dozens of computers, multiple user accounts, e-mail
    >> accounts, bank accounts, etc., there's no way you can remember all of
    >> the required passwords. No way.

    >
    > I do, and I'm over fifty. (Except the ones I haven't used in months.)



    You do ... what? ... Forget to bring up your fly? ;-)

    I'm 63 and I have 54 computers, each with multiple passwords, such as
    multiple user account passwords for the system OS,
    Timbuktu/RDC/VNC/rdesktop passwords, pgp passwords/pass phrases, many
    e-mail account passwords on many e-mail servers, news servers, FTP
    servers, ....

    Then I maintain authentication data for my servers, e-mail, news and
    FTP, for all of the users who have accounts.

    Plus there are all of the Internet locations that require passwords,
    like the banks, newspapers, GoDaddy, etc.

    I stay safe: I wear shorts all year because they have no fly. ;-)


    >> Writing a password on the wall is fine in most cases. You are, after
    >> all, securing your system from evil crackers who roam the Internet.
    >> They can't see your wall (unless you provide a Webcam).

    >
    > Where this disclaimer fails is when the password is not
    > on the wall at home--it's in the desk at work.



    Well, I wasn't including a desk at work, primarily because you have no
    control of the surroundings. A lowly janitor can spend hours attempting
    to pick the lock on your desk and/or crack your work PC. Nothing on it
    should be considered a "personal" loss if stolen. That is the employer's
    computer, and should only contain his data.

    You should, of course, protect it since it provides a paycheck. ;-)

    If you need to write down a password for a remote location, then carry
    it with you, or post it at the remote location. Don't write down what
    the password is for, since that's like providing both the username and
    the password. Certainly don't store passwords on a PC!

    It's like those DAV miniature license tag keychains I remember from
    years ago. If you lost your keys, the DAV could get them back to you,
    but someone who finds them wouldn't know whose keys they were -- nor
    where their front door lock was!

    "Encrypt" passwords with an easy enough scheme for you to remember. Even
    something as simple as ROT13 is better than plaintext. Plug in a letter
    or punctuation mark that you know is one you never would really use.

    You can't stop an attack. You can only slow them down by making them
    more obscure.


    > If I were sufficiently dishonest and disgruntled, I am thoroughly
    > convinced I could go to my place of employment and easily collect
    > a dozen passwords in a few minutes.
    >
    > And these passwords "protect" access to information
    > that by law is supposed to be private.
    >
    > At my previous long-term job, they "protected" information
    > that is sensitive for other reasons.
    >
    > The best solution I have ever seen in actual use was at my 1990 job.
    > There, when passwords expired, you had to select one from a generated
    > list. They were not words in any language, so a dictionary attack
    > would not work. They held no personal mnemonic connection, so guesses
    > based on the person would not work. But most people could remember them
    > because they were designed to "look like" English words. You could
    > pronounce them. You would pick one you liked the sound of. People
    > still wrote them down anyway, but that's another rant.
    >
    > A better system, that I've never seen in real world use, would be
    > to make them pick from nonsense _phrases_ randomly generated.



    Good practices.

    There's no real way to evaluate the security at any workplace without
    actually examining them. Most any workplace hasn't a clue. A bunch of
    AutoCAD operators may think they know a lot about Windows, but from my
    experiences, they know very little. I wouldn't expect them to know
    anything about security.

    The IT department "should" be better equipped, but there are a lot of
    so-called "IT Specialists" that don't know up from down. You could
    consider the whole IT department at Microsoft in this class, and just
    work it on down through the mom and pop grocery.

    The sad part is the government agencies that are created to protect the
    citizens are a prime example. I certainly cringe when I go to the VA
    hospital and see Windows computers running everything. Of course they've
    been in the news a few times concerning their security problems. And
    those stories are only the few they know about or allow the public to hear!

    The best security is obscurity by hiding the authentication in your
    brain -- and don't talk when asleep. Of course I guess if the "enemy"
    wanted the authentication bad enough, then torture (waterboarding?) or
    drugs would cause you to spill your beans.

    But if you hadn't memorized the authentication,then you might be
    tortured, even to death, but the passwords would still be obscure to the
    enemy.

    There are pros and cons in any system. I prefer to record my
    authentication because I have too much to remember. Way too much! I
    would rather take a slim chance of someone stealing a password than
    forget it and not have access to my own data and network, which is
    almost guaranteed to happen.

    Different folks, ....


    --
    John

    No Microsoft, Apple, Intel, Novell, Trend Micro, nor Ford products were used in the preparation or transmission of this message.

    The EULA sounds like it was written by a team of lawyers who want to tell me what I can't do. The GPL sounds like it was written by a human being, who wants me to know what I can do.

  2. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    On Mon, 26 May 2008 23:59:55 +0000, John F. Morse wrote:

    > A cracker KNOWS there is a Root account. You don't assign Root a
    > password, so the cracker has no chance to crack in through Root.
    >
    > Is this such a difficult thing to understand?!


    I was thinking that the name of the superuser is set in the /etc/password
    file by the id#0, and could be changed. Then I realized that there are
    scripts in /etc that have the word root in them. Not to mention possible
    binaries with "root" in the text.
    stonerfish

  3. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    On 2008-05-26, John F. Morse wrote:

    > If you have dozens of computers, multiple user accounts, e-mail
    > accounts, bank accounts, etc., there's no way you can remember all of
    > the required passwords. No way.


    I write down all of my password for work. I have Administrative
    duties on several different systems (Corporate AD, DMZ AD, Linux/Unix
    systems, different Web Interfaces, etc). They require password
    changes at different intervals, and for some of them, the password
    rules are incompatible with others. I have several complex passwords,
    and remembering all of them would have been tough for me 10 years ago.
    Now it is impossible.

    The trick is where you write them. I carry an Administrative journal
    with me, and all of my passwords are in it. The journal never leaves
    my person when I am out of my secure office. If my journal
    disappears from my secure office, I go to the security footage of the
    hallways outside of the doors, and compare those to the key code
    entries on the doors to determine who it is.

    Writing down passwords and leaving them in insecure locations is a
    problem. I can't tell you how many times I have been to users desks
    and found their passwords either stuck to their monitor, or under
    their keyboards. And EVERY time this happens, someone gets written up
    and their network access restricted as much as possible for a while as
    punishment...

    --
    Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
    joe at hits - buffalo dot com
    "Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
    time..." - Danny, American History X

  4. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    Joe wrote:
    > rules are incompatible with others. I have several complex passwords,
    > and remembering all of them would have been tough for me 10 years ago.
    > Now it is impossible.


    I guess I'm just weird. When they started proliferating,
    I thought it would be hard for me. But I'm finding that
    I remember any password I use once a month.

    After thinking about that for a while, I think maybe
    it's not so unusual. I only speak Spanish and English,
    yet I know at least a hundred Chinese characters.
    Most teenagers in Japan know 2,000 of them.

    But people expect it to be hard--especially when they
    are forced to choose passwords that have no mnemonic
    value, not even the ability to pronounce. So they
    write them down.

    --
    Wes Groleau

    The man who thinks he can do anything will
    fail less often than the man who says, "I can't."

  5. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    On 2008-05-27, Wes Groleau wrote:
    > Joe wrote:
    >> rules are incompatible with others. I have several complex passwords,
    >> and remembering all of them would have been tough for me 10 years ago.
    >> Now it is impossible.

    >
    > I guess I'm just weird. When they started proliferating,
    > I thought it would be hard for me. But I'm finding that
    > I remember any password I use once a month.
    >
    > After thinking about that for a while, I think maybe
    > it's not so unusual. I only speak Spanish and English,
    > yet I know at least a hundred Chinese characters.
    > Most teenagers in Japan know 2,000 of them.
    >
    > But people expect it to be hard--especially when they
    > are forced to choose passwords that have no mnemonic
    > value, not even the ability to pronounce. So they
    > write them down.
    >


    If they were persistent, I might remember them after a while. The
    problem is that they all need changing, and all on a different
    schedule, and all with different rules.

    The mainframe password gets changed every 2 months. The ATM password
    every 30 days. The non-Admin LAN account is 90 days, but the admin
    account is bi-monthly, while the DMZ account is 30 days. There are so
    many more, my head spins. And all with different complexity rules.

    For the end-users, there are far less, obviously.

    Everyone's memory works differently. And I'd prefer to have them
    written down over forgetting one that I need for my job, and not being
    able to get it reset at 3AM when the **** hits the fan...


    --
    Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
    joe at hits - buffalo dot com
    "Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
    time..." - Danny, American History X

  6. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    On 2008-05-26, Ignoramus22089 wrote:
    > On 2008-05-25, Jim Cochrane wrote:
    >> On 2008-05-24, John F. Morse wrote:
    >>> Ignoramus20433 wrote:
    >>>> On 2008-05-24, Bill wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Ignoramus20433 wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Here's one more reason why I do not like the principle of supplying
    >>>>>> ...
    >>>> The problem is the amount of time and hassle to do it. That's how
    >>>> ...
    >>>> ...
    >>>> to get root credentials.
    >>>
    >>> What you fail to consider is how much time and hassle your continuous
    >>> stream of questions are to the rest of us.
    >>>
    >>> Someone said once that there is no "stupid question" but they left it up
    >>> to you to decide if asking the question is stupid.
    >>>
    >>> Go back to Windows, us it, be happy, and leave the rest of us in peace
    >>> so we can help those who need our assistance.

    >>
    >> That's not a very helpful response. He asked a reasonable question and
    >> people have already provided him with acceptable solutions. No need for
    >> him to go back to the utter hell of Windows-land.

    >
    > I never, or almost never, used Windows at home since 1995.


    I didn't think so - it'd be like someone telling me to go back to my
    Atari Mega ST, which I last used, I think, some time in the early '90s;
    not very practical :-)


    --


  7. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    On 2008-05-26, John F. Morse wrote:
    > Jim Cochrane wrote:
    >> On 2008-05-24, johnny bobby bee wrote:
    >>
    >>> John F. Morse wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> What you fail to consider is how much time and hassle your continuous
    >>>> stream of questions are to the rest of us.
    >>>>
    >>>> Someone said once that there is no "stupid question" but they left it up
    >>>> to you to decide if asking the question is stupid.
    >>>>
    >>>> Go back to Windows, us it, be happy, and leave the rest of us in peace
    >>>> so we can help those who need our assistance.
    >>>>
    >>> Oh God, thank you. Thank you. THANK YOU. Finally, I'm not the first to
    >>> say it.
    >>>
    >>> What a relief.

    >>
    >> Do you people not know how to add a 'person' to your killfile with your
    >> newsreader (or whatever terminology your newsreader uses for this)?
    >> With slrn, all you do is type 'k' and 'answer' the couple questions that
    >> follow; then you'll never see posts from this person again, as long as
    >> he stays with the same user name on usenet.
    >>
    >> Then you won't need to post to complain about how someone posts too
    >> much. (Since if you do that too much, people might start 'killfiling'
    >> you.)

    >
    >
    > Jim,
    >
    > Perhaps after you've been around here for awhile, you might understand
    > the reasoning for the method that others use to post messages.


    I suppose what I disagree with most is this apparent attitude to push
    people back to Windows. Even if it's meant as a joke, I'm sure it turns
    some people off and probably encourages some people who are exploring,
    or thinking about switching to, ubuntu and other Linux distributions as
    an alternative to Gates-ware to literally do what's being suggested: "go
    back to Windows" and forget using an OS that "seems to be only for snobs".

    Most people who use computers (I'd guess at least 65%, if not 80%) are
    very naive and ignorant about how their computer, OS, and software work.
    But I think it would be a good thing for enough of these people to switch
    to alternatives to Windows that MS's monopoly is significantly weakened.
    As they say, I believe: "competition strengthens the free market and
    tends to be better for everyone". And wouldn't it be nice, some day,
    for it not to be the case that when you buy a computer or peripheral in
    your neighborhood computer store, that it's not automatically assumed
    that you're running Windows. (E.g.: "Oh! You're not running Windows!
    But everyone uses Windows. I'm afraid I can't help you with that hardware
    problem if you're not running Windows.") As well, the more people who
    use Linux, the more demand there will be for a complete set of drivers
    for any possible device.

    Another reason (which, I admit, is selfish) - I often end up helping
    people out with their computer problems. Since I tend to find Windows
    unpleasant to work with, it would be a nice change if some of these
    people I end up helping are using something else - whether it be Linux,
    or Mac, or even something really "odd" like Solaris. (Wouldn't it be
    extremely boring if 95% of all car owners drove a Toyota Camry?)

    I think it'd be great to see some more variety in the types of OSs used and
    not to have it always taken for granted that: "Everyone uses Windows,
    except for a few oddball-artistic types, who use a Mac, and a couple
    other really weird people, who use something else." So I'd rather
    encourage people to continue to explore the alternatives than tell them
    they're better off going back to Windows. (On the other hand, I'm
    practical enough to realize that some people are best off using Windows -
    at least today -, but these tend to be people who wouldn't even think of
    trying something weird, like Linux, or who wouldn't even know there was
    an alternative.)

    Finally, IMO, the "go back to Windows" school of thought begins to
    sound rather tedious and immature after a while - See if you agree -
    here are some excerpts from recent posts to a.o.l.u:

    "If you don't like the shell, go back to Windows..."

    .... "Get a book. Do some research. Or stick with Windows. This is
    obviously too hard for you. Maybe you'd be better off with a Mac..."
    [At least this one mentioned the possibility of a Mac. :-)]

    "That was a really dumb idea.

    Please, for the love of God, run back to Windows now. It's just easier
    that way for us all."

    "Why? Does your (dumb) question have anything to do with Ubuntu, or even
    Linux in general?
    Nope.
    Bugger off and go bother the other Win-droids, doofus."

    "You really are stupid. I thought it was just an act, at first.
    Bugger off, Win-droid."



    If you want to come up with a good put down, I think you can do better
    than that.

    > Here is a good example:
    >
    > If you don't like the way Johnny Bobby Bee or I reply to others, then
    > you are certainly free to take your own advice and killfile us.
    >
    > That would be the most-logical solution to your problem of complaining
    > and understanding free speech, and keeping your nose out of other
    > people's business.


    Well, you know how usenet works - since posts are completely public, you
    could say that everything said is everyone's business; and you can have
    a complex thread with many branches, where people at the leaves are
    talking about completely unrelated things. That might happen to this
    thread now.


    --


  8. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    Jim Cochrane wrote:
    >

    .... snip ...
    >
    > Finally, IMO, the "go back to Windows" school of thought begins to
    > sound rather tedious and immature after a while - See if you agree -
    > here are some excerpts from recent posts to a.o.l.u:


    You will learn to skip or plonk those. After a while your plonk
    file will start to dig out the real guts of the newsgroup.

    --
    [mail]: Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
    [page]:
    Try the download section.


    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  9. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    On 27 May 2008 04:51:28 GMT, Jim Cochrane
    wrote the following:

    >I suppose what I disagree with most is this apparent attitude to push
    >people back to Windows. Even if it's meant as a joke, I'm sure it turns
    >some people off and probably encourages some people who are exploring,
    >or thinking about switching to, ubuntu and other Linux distributions as
    >an alternative to Gates-ware to literally do what's being suggested: "go
    >back to Windows" and forget using an OS that "seems to be only for snobs".


    I recently installed Ubuntu 8.04 as a dual boot with WinXP Pro on my
    backup computer. But after posting in the "Root Password" thread I
    spat the dummy and removed Ubuntu from my computer.

    I have broad shoulders and have since re-installed Ubuntu 8.04 and got
    the Opera browser running.
    --

    Ian

  10. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    Jim Cochrane wrote:
    > I think you know what I meant - it was not helpful to him.
    >
    > You complained about his many questions to this group:
    >
    >>>> What you fail to consider is how much time and hassle your continuous
    >>>> stream of questions are to the rest of us.
    >>>>

    >
    > ubuntu and kubuntu, being more "user friendly" than many other Linux
    > distributions, tends to have a lot of users who are relatively (some
    > extremely, I'm sure) naive and who will ask, in forums like this,
    > relatively naive questions (especially compared to NGs like
    > comp.unix.programmer). This seems to be an odd group to be picky
    > about naive posts. (Actually, Ignoramus20433 is a lot less naive than
    > a lot of people posting here.)
    >
    > My point is that it would be much more efficient for you to, instead
    > of chewing out everyone here asking what you feel are naive or stupid
    > questions, simply use your kill file so that you don't see any more
    > posts from people whose posts you don't like. As well, it's more
    > efficient for those reading the group - e.g., not needing to skip over
    > responses that someone should go back to Windows.
    >
    > Finally, it seems to me that a better attitude in a group like this is to
    > tolerate posts that are naive, and to try to be as helpful as possible -
    > in the interest of helping more people to be able to use Linux systems
    > effectively and thus free them from the bondage suffered by most Windows
    > users, rather than scare them back into the jaws of MediocreSoft ;-)



    You are absolutely right, Jim.

    But of course, so am I. ;-)

    I'll try to tone it down a little if it will make your experience here
    more enjoyable.


    --
    John

    No Microsoft, Apple, Intel, Novell, Trend Micro, nor Ford products were used in the preparation or transmission of this message.

    The EULA sounds like it was written by a team of lawyers who want to tell me what I can't do. The GPL sounds like it was written by a human being, who wants me to know what I can do.

  11. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    Wes Groleau wrote:
    > Joe wrote:
    >> rules are incompatible with others. I have several complex passwords,
    >> and remembering all of them would have been tough for me 10 years ago.
    >> Now it is impossible.

    >
    > I guess I'm just weird. When they started proliferating,
    > I thought it would be hard for me. But I'm finding that
    > I remember any password I use once a month.
    >
    > After thinking about that for a while, I think maybe
    > it's not so unusual. I only speak Spanish and English,
    > yet I know at least a hundred Chinese characters.
    > Most teenagers in Japan know 2,000 of them.
    >
    > But people expect it to be hard--especially when they
    > are forced to choose passwords that have no mnemonic
    > value, not even the ability to pronounce. So they
    > write them down.



    Hey, Wes, ....

    Let's you and me go to Vegas. I'll bring some moola, and you can do as
    Rainman did and count cards. ;-)

    --
    John

    No Microsoft, Apple, Intel, Novell, Trend Micro, nor Ford products were used in the preparation or transmission of this message.

    The EULA sounds like it was written by a team of lawyers who want to tell me what I can't do. The GPL sounds like it was written by a human being, who wants me to know what I can do.

  12. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    Jim Cochrane wrote:
    > On 2008-05-26, John F. Morse wrote:
    >
    >> Jim Cochrane wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 2008-05-24, johnny bobby bee wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> John F. Morse wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> What you fail to consider is how much time and hassle your continuous
    >>>>> stream of questions are to the rest of us.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Someone said once that there is no "stupid question" but they left it up
    >>>>> to you to decide if asking the question is stupid.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Go back to Windows, us it, be happy, and leave the rest of us in peace
    >>>>> so we can help those who need our assistance.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>> Oh God, thank you. Thank you. THANK YOU. Finally, I'm not the first to
    >>>> say it.
    >>>>
    >>>> What a relief.
    >>>>
    >>> Do you people not know how to add a 'person' to your killfile with your
    >>> newsreader (or whatever terminology your newsreader uses for this)?
    >>> With slrn, all you do is type 'k' and 'answer' the couple questions that
    >>> follow; then you'll never see posts from this person again, as long as
    >>> he stays with the same user name on usenet.
    >>>
    >>> Then you won't need to post to complain about how someone posts too
    >>> much. (Since if you do that too much, people might start 'killfiling'
    >>> you.)
    >>>

    >> Jim,
    >>
    >> Perhaps after you've been around here for awhile, you might understand
    >> the reasoning for the method that others use to post messages.
    >>

    >
    > I suppose what I disagree with most is this apparent attitude to push
    > people back to Windows. Even if it's meant as a joke, I'm sure it turns
    > some people off and probably encourages some people who are exploring,
    > or thinking about switching to, ubuntu and other Linux distributions as
    > an alternative to Gates-ware to literally do what's being suggested: "go
    > back to Windows" and forget using an OS that "seems to be only for snobs".
    >
    > Most people who use computers (I'd guess at least 65%, if not 80%) are
    > very naive and ignorant about how their computer, OS, and software work.
    > But I think it would be a good thing for enough of these people to switch
    > to alternatives to Windows that MS's monopoly is significantly weakened.
    > As they say, I believe: "competition strengthens the free market and
    > tends to be better for everyone". And wouldn't it be nice, some day,
    > for it not to be the case that when you buy a computer or peripheral in
    > your neighborhood computer store, that it's not automatically assumed
    > that you're running Windows. (E.g.: "Oh! You're not running Windows!
    > But everyone uses Windows. I'm afraid I can't help you with that hardware
    > problem if you're not running Windows.") As well, the more people who
    > use Linux, the more demand there will be for a complete set of drivers
    > for any possible device.
    >
    > Another reason (which, I admit, is selfish) - I often end up helping
    > people out with their computer problems. Since I tend to find Windows
    > unpleasant to work with, it would be a nice change if some of these
    > people I end up helping are using something else - whether it be Linux,
    > or Mac, or even something really "odd" like Solaris. (Wouldn't it be
    > extremely boring if 95% of all car owners drove a Toyota Camry?)
    >
    > I think it'd be great to see some more variety in the types of OSs used and
    > not to have it always taken for granted that: "Everyone uses Windows,
    > except for a few oddball-artistic types, who use a Mac, and a couple
    > other really weird people, who use something else." So I'd rather
    > encourage people to continue to explore the alternatives than tell them
    > they're better off going back to Windows. (On the other hand, I'm
    > practical enough to realize that some people are best off using Windows -
    > at least today -, but these tend to be people who wouldn't even think of
    > trying something weird, like Linux, or who wouldn't even know there was
    > an alternative.)
    >
    > Finally, IMO, the "go back to Windows" school of thought begins to
    > sound rather tedious and immature after a while - See if you agree -
    > here are some excerpts from recent posts to a.o.l.u:
    >
    > "If you don't like the shell, go back to Windows..."
    >
    > ... "Get a book. Do some research. Or stick with Windows. This is
    > obviously too hard for you. Maybe you'd be better off with a Mac..."
    > [At least this one mentioned the possibility of a Mac. :-)]
    >
    > "That was a really dumb idea.
    >
    > Please, for the love of God, run back to Windows now. It's just easier
    > that way for us all."
    >
    > "Why? Does your (dumb) question have anything to do with Ubuntu, or even
    > Linux in general?
    > Nope.
    > Bugger off and go bother the other Win-droids, doofus."
    >
    > "You really are stupid. I thought it was just an act, at first.
    > Bugger off, Win-droid."
    >
    >
    >
    > If you want to come up with a good put down, I think you can do better
    > than that.
    >
    >
    >> Here is a good example:
    >>
    >> If you don't like the way Johnny Bobby Bee or I reply to others, then
    >> you are certainly free to take your own advice and killfile us.
    >>
    >> That would be the most-logical solution to your problem of complaining
    >> and understanding free speech, and keeping your nose out of other
    >> people's business.
    >>

    >
    > Well, you know how usenet works - since posts are completely public, you
    > could say that everything said is everyone's business; and you can have
    > a complex thread with many branches, where people at the leaves are
    > talking about completely unrelated things. That might happen to this
    > thread now.



    Good post, Jim. Well-thought. Thanks.


    --
    John

    No Microsoft, Apple, Intel, Novell, Trend Micro, nor Ford products were used in the preparation or transmission of this message.

    The EULA sounds like it was written by a team of lawyers who want to tell me what I can't do. The GPL sounds like it was written by a human being, who wants me to know what I can do.

  13. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    >Jim Cochrane
    >what I disagree with most is this apparent attitude to push
    >people back to Windows. I'm sure it turns
    >some people off and probably encourages some people who are exploring,
    >or thinking about switching to, ubuntu and other Linux distributions as
    >an alternative to Gates-ware to literally do what's being suggested: "go
    >back to Windows" and forget using an OS that "seems to be only for snobs".


    Actually, I find that the best way to deal with that situation is to point out
    the discrepancies in the various Linux distros, including community support.
    This is one of the most essential pieces of information that should be known by
    anyone contemplating moving to Linux (or newbies in general). Unfortunately,
    compared to the media hype about Ubuntu, this is _not_ information that newbies
    are getting until well AFTER they've read one of those "Here's how to migrate
    to Linux" articles (which is actually just a misleading "Here's how to migrate
    to Ubuntu" article), burned a CD of Ubuntu, and had some problem with it.

    If you have a problem with one distro, including its community, move to another
    distro. Plain and simple, it is the single-most effective and efficient way to
    solve a Linux-related problem, for both the person offering this very real
    alternative, as well as the person with the problem. And it's a great solution
    because frankly, Ubuntu offers nothing that you can't also get from numerous
    other distros. It should be explained that all Linux distros get their software
    from the same sources. And many are based upon other (parent) distros, such as
    Ubuntu being a Debian-based distro. And they all have different release
    schedules, so at any given time, one distro may have more robust versions of
    software than another distro, which may "fix" a given problem. And some
    communities tend to be more serious and professional than others. Many Linux
    newbies do not know these things, and must be informed of such, so that they
    can make better decisions than to waste time arguing with some of the
    ridiculous responses I've read in this group (some of which you noted in your
    post).

    >I'd rather encourage people to continue to explore the alternatives than
    >tell them they're better off going back to Windows.


    So do I. That's why I say "try another non-Ubuntu distro if you're not getting
    what you need/want from Ubuntu and/or its community", and I explain why. It is
    not a jaded, cynical, unhelpful reply, but rather a very real solution that I
    know works because I found it to be a solution myself.

    It is essential that this message be offered to folks who are experiencing
    problems in this newsgroup, and not getting what they want/need. It's
    reassuring that you and I have the sense to do that. People seeking answers to
    their problems deserve no less.

  14. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    >Ian Anderson
    >I recently installed Ubuntu 8.04 as a dual boot with WinXP Pro on my
    >backup computer. But after posting in the "Root Password" thread I
    >spat the dummy and removed Ubuntu from my computer.


    >I have broad shoulders and have since re-installed Ubuntu 8.04 and got
    >the Opera browser running.


    You may want to consider researching about, and trying, a non-Ubuntu distro.
    Seriously. See my previous post in this thread for numerous reasons why. There
    are a plethora of other distros out there, all of them offering an alternative
    to Ubuntu. If there is something about Ubuntu that has frustrated you to the
    point that you actually wiped it off of your hard drive, then you owe yourself
    the opportunity to try one of the alternatives.

  15. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    >> I'd rather encourage people to continue to explore the alternatives than
    >> tell them they're better off going back to Windows.


    Ditto. Except for the ones who never had any intention
    of leaving Windows except for long enough to troll here.

    THOSE people I'd rather we all STOP answering!

    --
    Wes Groleau
    http://groleau.freeshell.org/teaching/

  16. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    John F. Morse wrote:
    > Let's you and me go to Vegas. I'll bring some moola, and you can do as
    > Rainman did and count cards. ;-)


    I can remember passwords, but I can't count cards.
    I did have a "system" in which I could make about
    $20 an hour making five-dollar bets in Blackjack.

    But after practicing the system for a couple of hours
    (that's how I measured the $20/hr), I still couldn't
    remember it. Like Joe said--everyone's memory works
    differently.

    --
    Wes Groleau

    There are more Baroque musicians than any other kind.

  17. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    * Ignoramus20433 wrote in alt.os.linux.ubuntu:

    > Here's one more reason why I do not like the principle of supplying
    > user's own password for sudo instead of root password as in su.
    >
    > My son has an account on my machine. He is obviously NOT in sudoers as
    > he has no business being root. He played some online games logged on
    > as himself and needed a firefox plugin.
    >
    > Firefox said he needed a plugin and to click to install it (but
    > firefox did not give a package name). I clicked and package management
    > app came up, and asked for HIS password to get privileges.
    >
    > I entered his password, but, obviously, he was not granted any
    > privileges since he was not in sudoers.
    >
    > Geez.
    >
    > So how do I install those plugins for him?
    >
    > If that thing was asking for root password instead, I would enter the
    > root password and we'd be done in 1 minute. Instead I had to waste a
    > lot more time with su, aptitude search etc.
    >
    > And, ultimately, if that GUI sudo gave me an option to enter the root
    > password, I would be happy also.
    >
    > But no such thing.


    I swear there is an option in gconf to change this behavior. You can
    choose to use gksu or gksudo which would resolve your issue.

    --
    David

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