Another problem with Sudo - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on Another problem with Sudo - Ubuntu ; John F. Morse wrote: > What you fail to consider is how much time and hassle your continuous > stream of questions are to the rest of us. > > Someone said once that there is no "stupid question" but ...

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Thread: Another problem with Sudo

  1. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    John F. Morse wrote:
    > What you fail to consider is how much time and hassle your continuous
    > stream of questions are to the rest of us.
    >
    > Someone said once that there is no "stupid question" but they left it up
    > to you to decide if asking the question is stupid.
    >
    > Go back to Windows, us it, be happy, and leave the rest of us in peace
    > so we can help those who need our assistance.


    Oh God, thank you. Thank you. THANK YOU. Finally, I'm not the first to
    say it.

    What a relief.

    --
    As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be
    glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
    and this we should do freely and generously.
    --Benjamin Franklin

  2. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    Ignoramus20433 wrote:
    > with this, I think that I can safely make my son member of sudoers,
    > since he won't know the root password anyway.


    Yes, please. Please do that. Make your son a member of sudoers. He'll
    delete system files, or bork your system beyond repair, then you'll have
    to go back to Windows and we'll *all* be happy.

    Save us the agony, just give him a sledgehammer and have him go at it
    with that.

    cheers.

    --
    As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be
    glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
    and this we should do freely and generously.
    --Benjamin Franklin

  3. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    Trevor Best wrote:
    > might be less hassle, he doesn't like hassle.


    No, hassles he loves. He creates them, needlessly. Intelligence and
    common sense, that's what he doesn't like.

    --
    As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be
    glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
    and this we should do freely and generously.
    --Benjamin Franklin

  4. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    Ignoramus20433 wrote:

    > I have used Linux for longer than you knew how to press the POWER
    > button on a computer.


    So what?

    You've probably picked your nose longer than me, and most likely eaten
    the boogers.


    --
    John

    No Microsoft, Apple, Intel, Novell, Trend Micro, nor Ford products were used in the preparation or transmission of this message.

    The EULA sounds like it was written by a team of lawyers who want to tell me what I can't do. The GPL sounds like it was written by a human being, who wants me to know what I can do.

  5. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    Moog wrote in
    news:slrng3ge8i.ctq.efcmoog@hardy.mooggravy:

    > Ignoramus20433 illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >> Here's one more reason why I do not like the principle of supplying
    >> user's own password for sudo instead of root password as in su.
    >>
    >> My son has an account on my machine. He is obviously NOT in sudoers

    as
    >> he has no business being root. He played some online games logged on
    >> as himself and needed a firefox plugin.
    >>
    >> Firefox said he needed a plugin and to click to install it (but
    >> firefox did not give a package name). I clicked and package

    management
    >> app came up, and asked for HIS password to get privileges.
    >>
    >> I entered his password, but, obviously, he was not granted any
    >> privileges since he was not in sudoers.
    >>
    >> Geez.
    >>
    >> So how do I install those plugins for him?
    >>
    >> If that thing was asking for root password instead, I would enter the
    >> root password and we'd be done in 1 minute. Instead I had to waste a
    >> lot more time with su, aptitude search etc.
    >>
    >> And, ultimately, if that GUI sudo gave me an option to enter the root
    >> password, I would be happy also.
    >>
    >> But no such thing.

    >
    >
    > Good lord,
    >
    > ctl-alt-F1 to get to another tty session.
    >
    > Log in as yourself.
    >
    > $ sudo apt-get install
    >
    > $ exit
    >
    > ctrl-alt-F7 to return to your sons session.
    >
    > Difficult? Surely not.
    >
    > Why would enabling root use in a non-sudoer account have made your
    > task *any* easier?
    >


    In hpux and sunos, there is the idea of "visudo". Does Ubuntu have
    something similar? If so, then perhaps the OP could add his son's user
    to the sudo list as an authorized installer of plugins. This would give
    him the ability he needs to do what is required without having to have
    root access, or OP intervention.

    Make sense?



    --
    I have nothing to add to this

  6. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    On Sat, 24 May 2008 23:27:09 +0000, johnny bobby bee wrote:

    > Ignoramus20433 wrote:
    >> with this, I think that I can safely make my son member of sudoers,
    >> since he won't know the root password anyway.

    >
    > Yes, please. Please do that. Make your son a member of sudoers. He'll
    > delete system files, or bork your system beyond repair, then you'll have
    > to go back to Windows and we'll *all* be happy.
    >
    > Save us the agony, just give him a sledgehammer and have him go at it
    > with that.
    >
    > cheers.


    If you'd bother to read what he did, you'd see that it's quite safe. He
    changed sudo to require the root password rather than the user's so he can
    make the kid a sudo member, not give him the root password and then when
    he wants to use it, make the kid hide his face and enter the root
    password. Of course he's going to also make sure sudo times out before he
    turns the kid loose again.

  7. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    On 2008-05-24, johnny bobby bee wrote:
    > Ignoramus20433 wrote:
    >> with this, I think that I can safely make my son member of sudoers,
    >> since he won't know the root password anyway.

    >
    > Yes, please. Please do that. Make your son a member of sudoers. He'll
    > delete system files, or bork your system beyond repair, then you'll have
    > to go back to Windows and we'll *all* be happy.
    >
    > Save us the agony, just give him a sledgehammer and have him go at it
    > with that.


    Keep in mind, my enthusiastic friend, that I used Linux since 1995 and
    wrote several GPLed programs.

    You think that I am less qualified than you when, in fact, the
    opposite is the case.

    --
    Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
    to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
    from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
    more readers you will need to find a different means of
    posting on Usenet.
    http://improve-usenet.org/

  8. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    On 2008-05-24, Ignoramus20433 wrote:
    > Here's one more reason why I do not like the principle of supplying
    > user's own password for sudo instead of root password as in su.
    >
    > My son has an account on my machine. He is obviously NOT in sudoers as
    > he has no business being root. He played some online games logged on
    > as himself and needed a firefox plugin.
    >
    > Firefox said he needed a plugin and to click to install it (but
    > firefox did not give a package name). I clicked and package management
    > app came up, and asked for HIS password to get privileges.
    >
    > I entered his password, but, obviously, he was not granted any
    > privileges since he was not in sudoers.
    >
    > Geez.
    >
    > So how do I install those plugins for him?
    >
    > If that thing was asking for root password instead, I would enter the
    > root password and we'd be done in 1 minute. Instead I had to waste a
    > lot more time with su, aptitude search etc.
    >
    > And, ultimately, if that GUI sudo gave me an option to enter the root
    > password, I would be happy also.
    >
    > But no such thing.


    Here's an easy solution - probably covered by someone already; but since
    there are a slew of replies already, I didn't want to take the time to
    check before posting:

    su

    Type your password at the prompt. Then you'll be "you". Then do the
    sudo. When finished, make sure you exit out of the "you" session so
    that you are back to being "your-son".

    (If you lose track of "who" you are, just run the id command.)

    Have fun.

    --


  9. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    On 2008-05-24, John F. Morse wrote:
    > Ignoramus20433 wrote:
    >> On 2008-05-24, Bill wrote:
    >>
    >>> Ignoramus20433 wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Here's one more reason why I do not like the principle of supplying
    >>>> ...

    >> The problem is the amount of time and hassle to do it. That's how
    >> ...
    >> As opposed to other unix solution, which is to supply a root password
    >> to get root credentials.

    >
    > What you fail to consider is how much time and hassle your continuous
    > stream of questions are to the rest of us.
    >
    > Someone said once that there is no "stupid question" but they left it up
    > to you to decide if asking the question is stupid.
    >
    > Go back to Windows, us it, be happy, and leave the rest of us in peace
    > so we can help those who need our assistance.


    That's not a very helpful response. He asked a reasonable question and
    people have already provided him with acceptable solutions. No need for
    him to go back to the utter hell of Windows-land.

    If you don't like his posts, the most effective action is for you to
    'killfile' him. Then he won't waste your time and you won't waste
    others' time. :-)

    Have fun!

    --


  10. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    On 2008-05-24, johnny bobby bee wrote:
    > John F. Morse wrote:
    >> What you fail to consider is how much time and hassle your continuous
    >> stream of questions are to the rest of us.
    >>
    >> Someone said once that there is no "stupid question" but they left it up
    >> to you to decide if asking the question is stupid.
    >>
    >> Go back to Windows, us it, be happy, and leave the rest of us in peace
    >> so we can help those who need our assistance.

    >
    > Oh God, thank you. Thank you. THANK YOU. Finally, I'm not the first to
    > say it.
    >
    > What a relief.


    Do you people not know how to add a 'person' to your killfile with your
    newsreader (or whatever terminology your newsreader uses for this)?
    With slrn, all you do is type 'k' and 'answer' the couple questions that
    follow; then you'll never see posts from this person again, as long as
    he stays with the same user name on usenet.

    Then you won't need to post to complain about how someone posts too
    much. (Since if you do that too much, people might start 'killfiling'
    you.)

    --


  11. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    On 2008-05-25, ray wrote:
    > On Sat, 24 May 2008 23:27:09 +0000, johnny bobby bee wrote:
    >
    >> Ignoramus20433 wrote:
    >>> with this, I think that I can safely make my son member of sudoers,
    >>> since he won't know the root password anyway.

    >>
    >> Yes, please. Please do that. Make your son a member of sudoers. He'll
    >> delete system files, or bork your system beyond repair, then you'll have
    >> to go back to Windows and we'll *all* be happy.
    >>
    >> Save us the agony, just give him a sledgehammer and have him go at it
    >> with that.
    >>
    >> cheers.

    >
    > If you'd bother to read what he did, you'd see that it's quite safe. He


    Well, he's not safe if he has the root password written down somewhere
    and his son finds it. :-)

    > changed sudo to require the root password rather than the user's so he can
    > make the kid a sudo member, not give him the root password and then when
    > he wants to use it, make the kid hide his face and enter the root
    > password. Of course he's going to also make sure sudo times out before he
    > turns the kid loose again.



    --


  12. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    Ignoramus20433 wrote:
    > The problem is the amount of time and hassle to do it. That's how
    > things are done in Windows XP (and that's why Windows users have to be
    > administrators to do anything)
    >
    > As opposed to other unix solution, which is to supply a root password
    > to get root credentials.


    Probably wouldn't be hard to modify whatever to do like
    Mac OS X: If you are a sudoer, a popup has your user name
    in one box and asks you for its password.

    If you are not a sudoer, both boxes are empty and it asks you
    for an administrator's name and password.

    --
    Wes Groleau
    Genealogical Lookups:
    http://groleau.freeshell.org/ref/lookups.shtml

  13. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    Ignoramus20433 illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:

    >
    >> Why would enabling root use in a non-sudoer account have made your
    >> task *any* easier?
    >>

    >
    > Because I was not actually given package name. If I was, I would not
    > be complaining. And I did as you suggested: opened terminal, typed su
    > -, found out the package name, and installed. But the option of being
    > able to enter root password, would be useful.


    You don't know the package name, but you want to install it using root?

    That's just pure lunacy.

    Here fella. I'm a rootkit. Just supply your root password to me.
    Cheers?

    Get a grip of your concept of security. Quickly.

    TIA.

    --
    Moog

    "The G is for the gnarled face of someone who's on ninety thousand
    pounds a week who reckoned he should have had a throw in"

  14. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    On Sun, 25 May 2008 22:08:16 +0000, Jim Cochrane wrote:

    > On 2008-05-25, ray wrote:
    >> On Sat, 24 May 2008 23:27:09 +0000, johnny bobby bee wrote:
    >>
    >>> Ignoramus20433 wrote:
    >>>> with this, I think that I can safely make my son member of sudoers,
    >>>> since he won't know the root password anyway.
    >>>
    >>> Yes, please. Please do that. Make your son a member of sudoers. He'll
    >>> delete system files, or bork your system beyond repair, then you'll
    >>> have to go back to Windows and we'll *all* be happy.
    >>>
    >>> Save us the agony, just give him a sledgehammer and have him go at it
    >>> with that.
    >>>
    >>> cheers.

    >>
    >> If you'd bother to read what he did, you'd see that it's quite safe. He

    >
    > Well, he's not safe if he has the root password written down somewhere
    > and his son finds it. :-)


    Rule number ONE of computer security: NEVER write down your password.


    >
    >> changed sudo to require the root password rather than the user's so he
    >> can make the kid a sudo member, not give him the root password and then
    >> when he wants to use it, make the kid hide his face and enter the root
    >> password. Of course he's going to also make sure sudo times out before
    >> he turns the kid loose again.



  15. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    On 2008-05-25, Jim Cochrane wrote:
    > On 2008-05-24, John F. Morse wrote:
    >> Ignoramus20433 wrote:
    >>> On 2008-05-24, Bill wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Ignoramus20433 wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Here's one more reason why I do not like the principle of supplying
    >>>>> ...
    >>> The problem is the amount of time and hassle to do it. That's how
    >>> ...
    >>> As opposed to other unix solution, which is to supply a root password
    >>> to get root credentials.

    >>
    >> What you fail to consider is how much time and hassle your continuous
    >> stream of questions are to the rest of us.
    >>
    >> Someone said once that there is no "stupid question" but they left it up
    >> to you to decide if asking the question is stupid.
    >>
    >> Go back to Windows, us it, be happy, and leave the rest of us in peace
    >> so we can help those who need our assistance.

    >
    > That's not a very helpful response. He asked a reasonable question and
    > people have already provided him with acceptable solutions. No need for
    > him to go back to the utter hell of Windows-land.


    I never, or almost never, used Windows at home since 1995.

    I have used Redhat stuff and while I did not like a lot about it , I
    think that it's traditional Unix security approach was better
    designed (30 years ago).

    i

    > If you don't like his posts, the most effective action is for you to
    > 'killfile' him. Then he won't waste your time and you won't waste
    > others' time. :-)
    >
    > Have fun!
    >


    --
    Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
    to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
    from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
    more readers you will need to find a different means of
    posting on Usenet.
    http://improve-usenet.org/

  16. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    On 2008-05-25, Jim Cochrane wrote:
    > On 2008-05-25, ray wrote:
    >> On Sat, 24 May 2008 23:27:09 +0000, johnny bobby bee wrote:
    >>
    >>> Ignoramus20433 wrote:
    >>>> with this, I think that I can safely make my son member of sudoers,
    >>>> since he won't know the root password anyway.
    >>>
    >>> Yes, please. Please do that. Make your son a member of sudoers. He'll
    >>> delete system files, or bork your system beyond repair, then you'll have
    >>> to go back to Windows and we'll *all* be happy.
    >>>
    >>> Save us the agony, just give him a sledgehammer and have him go at it
    >>> with that.
    >>>
    >>> cheers.

    >>
    >> If you'd bother to read what he did, you'd see that it's quite safe. He

    >
    > Well, he's not safe if he has the root password written down somewhere
    > and his son finds it. :-)


    I am very paranoid about my root password.

    --
    Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
    to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
    from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
    more readers you will need to find a different means of
    posting on Usenet.
    http://improve-usenet.org/

  17. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    On 2008-05-25, Wes Groleau wrote:
    > Ignoramus20433 wrote:
    >> The problem is the amount of time and hassle to do it. That's how
    >> things are done in Windows XP (and that's why Windows users have to be
    >> administrators to do anything)
    >>
    >> As opposed to other unix solution, which is to supply a root password
    >> to get root credentials.

    >
    > Probably wouldn't be hard to modify whatever to do like
    > Mac OS X: If you are a sudoer, a popup has your user name
    > in one box and asks you for its password.


    > If you are not a sudoer, both boxes are empty and it asks you
    > for an administrator's name and password.
    >


    And does not extend privilege to do a password-less sudo for a few
    minutes, RIght?


    perfect.

    --
    Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
    to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
    from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
    more readers you will need to find a different means of
    posting on Usenet.
    http://improve-usenet.org/

  18. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    On 2008-05-25, Moog wrote:
    > Ignoramus20433 illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >
    >>
    >>> Why would enabling root use in a non-sudoer account have made your
    >>> task *any* easier?
    >>>

    >>
    >> Because I was not actually given package name. If I was, I would not
    >> be complaining. And I did as you suggested: opened terminal, typed su
    >> -, found out the package name, and installed. But the option of being
    >> able to enter root password, would be useful.

    >
    > You don't know the package name, but you want to install it using root?
    >
    > That's just pure lunacy.
    >
    > Here fella. I'm a rootkit. Just supply your root password to me.
    > Cheers?
    >
    > Get a grip of your concept of security. Quickly.
    >


    Excuse me? I hope that Canonical does not provide such packages.

    --
    Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
    to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
    from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
    more readers you will need to find a different means of
    posting on Usenet.
    http://improve-usenet.org/

  19. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    Ignoramus22089 wrote:
    > On 2008-05-25, Wes Groleau wrote:
    >> Probably wouldn't be hard to modify whatever to do like
    >> Mac OS X: If you are a sudoer, a popup has your user name
    >> in one box and asks you for its password.

    >
    >> If you are not a sudoer, both boxes are empty and it asks you
    >> for an administrator's name and password.

    >
    > And does not extend privilege to do a password-less sudo for a few
    > minutes, RIght?


    It depends. The privilege is extended for the shell that got it.
    Since this is a pop-up for a GUI installer, the calling shell is
    ended when the install completes. But if the popup was issued
    by a command typed in a shell, the privilege MIGHT get extended
    to that shell.

    But, if the logged-in user is not a sudoer, then he can't
    issue another sudo command.

    --
    Wes Groleau

    You're all individuals!
    Yes, we're all individuals!
    You're all different!
    Yes, we are all different!
    I'm not!

    ("Life of Brian")


  20. Re: Another problem with Sudo

    ray wrote:
    > Rule number ONE of computer security: NEVER write down your password.


    Rule number two: make your clients put numbers and punctuation
    in their passwords. This guarantees they will write them down.

    --
    Wes Groleau

    You're all individuals!
    Yes, we're all individuals!
    You're all different!
    Yes, we are all different!
    I'm not!

    ("Life of Brian")


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