Re: [News] Red Hat Developer's Update on PulseAudio, Fedora Live CDs Interview - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on Re: [News] Red Hat Developer's Update on PulseAudio, Fedora Live CDs Interview - Ubuntu ; On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 21:36:00 -0400, Jeff Glatt wrote: >>Hadron >>is pulseaudio working with or against jack?!?!? > > It works against JACK. JACK is essentially another variant upon the same idea > as Pulse Audio -- a sound ...

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Thread: Re: [News] Red Hat Developer's Update on PulseAudio, Fedora Live CDs Interview

  1. Re: [News] Red Hat Developer's Update on PulseAudio, Fedora Live CDs Interview

    On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 21:36:00 -0400, Jeff Glatt wrote:

    >>Hadron
    >>is pulseaudio working with or against jack?!?!?

    >
    > It works against JACK. JACK is essentially another variant upon the same idea
    > as Pulse Audio -- a sound daemon running on top of ALSA.
    >
    > They all run on top of ALSA (well, except for really, really old stuff that
    > runs on top of OSS. But that stuff really is archaic and obsolete).
    >
    > ALSA can do everything that JACK can do, but in a more complicated manner. JACK
    > was meant to simplify use of ALSA for audio (not MIDI. ALSA is both an audio
    > and MIDI API).
    >
    > What you really want is for everyone to drop support for all these daemons and
    > instead use ALSA. Then you just use ALSA dmix plugin, and viola, you have what
    > you're looking for. Every time you encounter some software that makes sound,
    > but doesn't directly use ALSA, write the developers and ask them to directly
    > support ALSA. (And give them a link to my web page article about Linux audio
    > programming)


    That is the correct answer, but I strongly suspect the OP didn't know that
    and now you've let the cat out of the bag so to speak

    Actually I think of Jack as more of a tool to connect various pieces of the
    audio software and hardware together at very low latency's.
    For example piping the output of one program into another one.

    I too support the notion of ONE system that works with little or no user
    input.
    The current scheme of things is far too complicated IMHO.



    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  2. Re: [News] Red Hat Developer's Update on PulseAudio, Fedora Live CDs Interview

    DanS writes:

    > Hadron wrote in
    > news:ftmev7$1k1$1@registered.motzarella.org:
    >
    >> DanS writes:
    >>
    >>> Moshe Goldfarb wrote in
    >>> news:157i64ax9oq8z$.1dj8ysl6450oc$.dlg@40tude.net:
    >>>
    >>>>>> And thats the easy bit. There are many distro specific hacks and
    >>>>>> the need to compile from CVS in many cases.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I did absolutely nothing with my sound setup, in either Hardy or
    >>>>> Gutsy, it all just worked. My use of sound is mostly watching
    >>>>> movies or listening to music.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> i
    >>>>
    >>>> Try running Ardour and see what happens.
    >>>
    >>> Well, when I installed Ubuntu, the audio just, worked, and I just
    >>> installed Ardour a couple of days ago, and by golly, that just worked
    >>> too.

    >>
    >> That's nice.
    >>
    >> It didn't work for the fellow who replied to that "how to use apt-get"
    >> "article" that Marti posted a link to.
    >>
    >> What sound system are you using? What HW?

    >
    > Honestly, I have no clue as to what SS (and can't check right now),
    > whatever was installed when the OS was installed and detected it. It
    > worked properly right off the bat, so no reason to dig into it at all.


    Please report back.

    >
    > I'm sure I'd be able to tell you if I had a major problem and had to
    > troubleshoot it, but all went smooth.


    Sure it did.

    >
    > The HW is a CreativeLabs ES1371 chipset, so I'm sure quite common. Well,
    > maybe not, it is a PCI card and not on-board.



    Uh huh.

    >
    > I didn't use Ardour much, just to check it out to see if it worked. I
    > didn't build a large project or anything, but it accepted tracks, allowed
    > editing, mixing, etc. I didn't try recording with it though.


    So, you really dont know much about it at all?

    >
    > Ardour seems like a decent OSS application, comparable to some of the
    > commercial (not top-end though) Windows audio s/w just like it I have
    > used.


    And yet you didn't record anything with it?

    Uh, ok.

  3. Re: [News] Red Hat Developer's Update on PulseAudio, Fedora Live CDs Interview

    On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 05:36:54 +0200, Hadron wrote:

    > DanS writes:
    >
    >> Hadron wrote in
    >> news:ftmev7$1k1$1@registered.motzarella.org:
    >>
    >>> DanS writes:
    >>>
    >>>> Moshe Goldfarb wrote in
    >>>> news:157i64ax9oq8z$.1dj8ysl6450oc$.dlg@40tude.net:
    >>>>
    >>>>>>> And thats the easy bit. There are many distro specific hacks and
    >>>>>>> the need to compile from CVS in many cases.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I did absolutely nothing with my sound setup, in either Hardy or
    >>>>>> Gutsy, it all just worked. My use of sound is mostly watching
    >>>>>> movies or listening to music.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> i
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Try running Ardour and see what happens.
    >>>>
    >>>> Well, when I installed Ubuntu, the audio just, worked, and I just
    >>>> installed Ardour a couple of days ago, and by golly, that just worked
    >>>> too.
    >>>
    >>> That's nice.
    >>>
    >>> It didn't work for the fellow who replied to that "how to use apt-get"
    >>> "article" that Marti posted a link to.
    >>>
    >>> What sound system are you using? What HW?

    >>
    >> Honestly, I have no clue as to what SS (and can't check right now),
    >> whatever was installed when the OS was installed and detected it. It
    >> worked properly right off the bat, so no reason to dig into it at all.

    >
    > Please report back.
    >
    >>
    >> I'm sure I'd be able to tell you if I had a major problem and had to
    >> troubleshoot it, but all went smooth.

    >
    > Sure it did.
    >
    >>
    >> The HW is a CreativeLabs ES1371 chipset, so I'm sure quite common. Well,
    >> maybe not, it is a PCI card and not on-board.

    >
    >
    > Uh huh.
    >
    >>
    >> I didn't use Ardour much, just to check it out to see if it worked. I
    >> didn't build a large project or anything, but it accepted tracks, allowed
    >> editing, mixing, etc. I didn't try recording with it though.

    >
    > So, you really dont know much about it at all?
    >
    >>
    >> Ardour seems like a decent OSS application, comparable to some of the
    >> commercial (not top-end though) Windows audio s/w just like it I have
    >> used.

    >
    > And yet you didn't record anything with it?
    >
    > Uh, ok.


    I was trying to be nice, but obviously he didn't get anything working with
    Ardour because you need Jack to get it going and he would have mentioned
    that.
    IOW I set him up, but the other guy spilled the beans.

    It's just another Linux advocate's "works for me" post, and not a very good
    one at all.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  4. Re: [News] Red Hat Developer's Update on PulseAudio, Fedora Live CDs Interview

    Moshe Goldfarb writes:

    > On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 05:36:54 +0200, Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> DanS writes:
    >>
    >>> Hadron wrote in
    >>> news:ftmev7$1k1$1@registered.motzarella.org:
    >>>
    >>>> DanS writes:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Moshe Goldfarb wrote in
    >>>>> news:157i64ax9oq8z$.1dj8ysl6450oc$.dlg@40tude.net:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>>> And thats the easy bit. There are many distro specific hacks and
    >>>>>>>> the need to compile from CVS in many cases.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> I did absolutely nothing with my sound setup, in either Hardy or
    >>>>>>> Gutsy, it all just worked. My use of sound is mostly watching
    >>>>>>> movies or listening to music.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> i
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Try running Ardour and see what happens.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Well, when I installed Ubuntu, the audio just, worked, and I just
    >>>>> installed Ardour a couple of days ago, and by golly, that just worked
    >>>>> too.
    >>>>
    >>>> That's nice.
    >>>>
    >>>> It didn't work for the fellow who replied to that "how to use apt-get"
    >>>> "article" that Marti posted a link to.
    >>>>
    >>>> What sound system are you using? What HW?
    >>>
    >>> Honestly, I have no clue as to what SS (and can't check right now),
    >>> whatever was installed when the OS was installed and detected it. It
    >>> worked properly right off the bat, so no reason to dig into it at all.

    >>
    >> Please report back.
    >>
    >>>
    >>> I'm sure I'd be able to tell you if I had a major problem and had to
    >>> troubleshoot it, but all went smooth.

    >>
    >> Sure it did.
    >>
    >>>
    >>> The HW is a CreativeLabs ES1371 chipset, so I'm sure quite common. Well,
    >>> maybe not, it is a PCI card and not on-board.

    >>
    >>
    >> Uh huh.
    >>
    >>>
    >>> I didn't use Ardour much, just to check it out to see if it worked. I
    >>> didn't build a large project or anything, but it accepted tracks, allowed
    >>> editing, mixing, etc. I didn't try recording with it though.

    >>
    >> So, you really dont know much about it at all?
    >>
    >>>
    >>> Ardour seems like a decent OSS application, comparable to some of the
    >>> commercial (not top-end though) Windows audio s/w just like it I have
    >>> used.

    >>
    >> And yet you didn't record anything with it?
    >>
    >> Uh, ok.

    >
    > I was trying to be nice, but obviously he didn't get anything working with
    > Ardour because you need Jack to get it going and he would have mentioned
    > that.
    > IOW I set him up, but the other guy spilled the beans.
    >
    > It's just another Linux advocate's "works for me" post, and not a very good
    > one at all.


    I dont generally shy away from things, but the Linux sound mess has got
    me running backwards and forwards. Everything is reinventing the wheel
    and introducing stubs so that other systems can talk to theirs and so
    forth. What an absolute horrible mess. And the COLAtards think KDE and
    Gnome having different servers is a good "choice" thing? The ming
    boggles.

    --
    However, my enthusiasm for the modular tree is tempered by some parts of
    it not existing.
    -- Daniel Stone on debian-{x,devel}, commenting on the
    future of X

  5. Re: [News] Red Hat Developer's Update on PulseAudio, Fedora Live CDs Interview

    On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 05:54:21 +0200, Hadron wrote:

    > Moshe Goldfarb writes:
    >
    >> On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 05:36:54 +0200, Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>> DanS writes:
    >>>
    >>>> Hadron wrote in
    >>>> news:ftmev7$1k1$1@registered.motzarella.org:
    >>>>
    >>>>> DanS writes:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Moshe Goldfarb wrote in
    >>>>>> news:157i64ax9oq8z$.1dj8ysl6450oc$.dlg@40tude.net:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> And thats the easy bit. There are many distro specific hacks and
    >>>>>>>>> the need to compile from CVS in many cases.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> I did absolutely nothing with my sound setup, in either Hardy or
    >>>>>>>> Gutsy, it all just worked. My use of sound is mostly watching
    >>>>>>>> movies or listening to music.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> i
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Try running Ardour and see what happens.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Well, when I installed Ubuntu, the audio just, worked, and I just
    >>>>>> installed Ardour a couple of days ago, and by golly, that just worked
    >>>>>> too.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> That's nice.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> It didn't work for the fellow who replied to that "how to use apt-get"
    >>>>> "article" that Marti posted a link to.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> What sound system are you using? What HW?
    >>>>
    >>>> Honestly, I have no clue as to what SS (and can't check right now),
    >>>> whatever was installed when the OS was installed and detected it. It
    >>>> worked properly right off the bat, so no reason to dig into it at all.
    >>>
    >>> Please report back.
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> I'm sure I'd be able to tell you if I had a major problem and had to
    >>>> troubleshoot it, but all went smooth.
    >>>
    >>> Sure it did.
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> The HW is a CreativeLabs ES1371 chipset, so I'm sure quite common. Well,
    >>>> maybe not, it is a PCI card and not on-board.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Uh huh.
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> I didn't use Ardour much, just to check it out to see if it worked. I
    >>>> didn't build a large project or anything, but it accepted tracks, allowed
    >>>> editing, mixing, etc. I didn't try recording with it though.
    >>>
    >>> So, you really dont know much about it at all?
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Ardour seems like a decent OSS application, comparable to some of the
    >>>> commercial (not top-end though) Windows audio s/w just like it I have
    >>>> used.
    >>>
    >>> And yet you didn't record anything with it?
    >>>
    >>> Uh, ok.

    >>
    >> I was trying to be nice, but obviously he didn't get anything working with
    >> Ardour because you need Jack to get it going and he would have mentioned
    >> that.
    >> IOW I set him up, but the other guy spilled the beans.
    >>
    >> It's just another Linux advocate's "works for me" post, and not a very good
    >> one at all.

    >
    > I dont generally shy away from things, but the Linux sound mess has got
    > me running backwards and forwards. Everything is reinventing the wheel
    > and introducing stubs so that other systems can talk to theirs and so
    > forth. What an absolute horrible mess. And the COLAtards think KDE and
    > Gnome having different servers is a good "choice" thing? The ming
    > boggles.


    I subscribed to ALSA list once to attempt to get information as to how
    ALSA/Jack/dmix/etc all work and interact together.

    All I got was highly confused.

    I have a Delta 1010 which has 10 inputs and 10 outputs.
    Under Windows assigning signals to any in/out is one click.

    Under ALSA and Linux?
    I never did figure it out.
    It's a freaking mess.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  6. Re: [News] Red Hat Developer's Update on PulseAudio, Fedora Live CDs Interview

    On 2008-04-11, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    > On 10 Apr 2008 21:43:42 GMT, DanS wrote:
    >
    >> Moshe Goldfarb wrote in
    >> news:157i64ax9oq8z$.1dj8ysl6450oc$.dlg@40tude.net:
    >>
    >>>>> And thats the easy bit. There are many distro specific hacks and the
    >>>>> need to compile from CVS in many cases.
    >>>>
    >>>> I did absolutely nothing with my sound setup, in either Hardy or
    >>>> Gutsy, it all just worked. My use of sound is mostly watching movies
    >>>> or listening to music.
    >>>>
    >>>> i
    >>>
    >>> Try running Ardour and see what happens.

    >>
    >> Well, when I installed Ubuntu, the audio just, worked, and I just installed
    >> Ardour a couple of days ago, and by golly, that just worked too.

    >
    > What sound system are you running with Ardour? >



    I ran Ardour, it seems like something complicated, but it records and
    plays sound. I am not really interested in proceeding with it. I
    think that it is for mixing sound, like I can record a classical music
    performance, and sound of my fart, and mix that together.

    i

  7. Re: [News] Red Hat Developer's Update on PulseAudio, Fedora Live CDs Interview

    On 2008-04-11, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    > On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 21:36:00 -0400, Jeff Glatt wrote:
    >
    >>>Hadron
    >>>is pulseaudio working with or against jack?!?!?

    >>
    >> It works against JACK. JACK is essentially another variant upon the same idea
    >> as Pulse Audio -- a sound daemon running on top of ALSA.
    >>
    >> They all run on top of ALSA (well, except for really, really old stuff that
    >> runs on top of OSS. But that stuff really is archaic and obsolete).
    >>
    >> ALSA can do everything that JACK can do, but in a more complicated manner. JACK
    >> was meant to simplify use of ALSA for audio (not MIDI. ALSA is both an audio
    >> and MIDI API).
    >>
    >> What you really want is for everyone to drop support for all these daemons and
    >> instead use ALSA. Then you just use ALSA dmix plugin, and viola, you have what
    >> you're looking for. Every time you encounter some software that makes sound,
    >> but doesn't directly use ALSA, write the developers and ask them to directly
    >> support ALSA. (And give them a link to my web page article about Linux audio
    >> programming)

    >
    > That is the correct answer, but I strongly suspect the OP didn't know that
    > and now you've let the cat out of the bag so to speak
    >
    > Actually I think of Jack as more of a tool to connect various pieces of the
    > audio software and hardware together at very low latency's.
    > For example piping the output of one program into another one.
    >
    > I too support the notion of ONE system that works with little or no user
    > input.
    > The current scheme of things is far too complicated IMHO.
    >
    >
    >


    There is one thing that PulseAudio supports, IIRC, which is remote
    streaming of audio as part of X session or along one. Which is a very
    nice concept that opens way to many interesting future gadgets. For
    example, I can envision a plasma TV or a monitor/keyboard/mouse combo
    or a monitor/remote combo that would have a built in X server and
    Ethernet capability.

    The old idea of an X terminal like those Tektronix ones, but with
    sound. Now you can make a "multistation home entertainment system",
    with a "entertainment server" and those satellite screens, that may be
    packaged like a gadget, so the users would not even know it runs
    Linux.

    I can see rich people shelling out big bucks for it.

    i

  8. Re: [News] Red Hat Developer's Update on PulseAudio, Fedora Live CDs Interview

    Ignoramus9437 writes:

    > On 2008-04-11, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >> On 10 Apr 2008 21:43:42 GMT, DanS wrote:
    >>
    >>> Moshe Goldfarb wrote in
    >>> news:157i64ax9oq8z$.1dj8ysl6450oc$.dlg@40tude.net:
    >>>
    >>>>>> And thats the easy bit. There are many distro specific hacks and the
    >>>>>> need to compile from CVS in many cases.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I did absolutely nothing with my sound setup, in either Hardy or
    >>>>> Gutsy, it all just worked. My use of sound is mostly watching movies
    >>>>> or listening to music.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> i
    >>>>
    >>>> Try running Ardour and see what happens.
    >>>
    >>> Well, when I installed Ubuntu, the audio just, worked, and I just installed
    >>> Ardour a couple of days ago, and by golly, that just worked too.

    >>
    >> What sound system are you running with Ardour? >

    >
    >
    > I ran Ardour, it seems like something complicated, but it records and
    > plays sound. I am not really interested in proceeding with it. I
    > think that it is for mixing sound, like I can record a classical music
    > performance, and sound of my fart, and mix that together.
    >
    > i


    This reminds me of Rick saying Amarok "worked for him" when I gave
    details as to how it was useless at playlist management with big music
    catalogs. It turned out after probing he only had about 10 songs on it
    and it "met his needs". Your usage sounds similar with all due respect.

  9. Re: [News] Red Hat Developer's Update on PulseAudio, Fedora LiveCDs Interview

    On 2008-04-11, Hadron wrote:
    > Ignoramus9437 writes:
    >
    >> On 2008-04-11, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>> On 10 Apr 2008 21:43:42 GMT, DanS wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Moshe Goldfarb wrote in
    >>>> news:157i64ax9oq8z$.1dj8ysl6450oc$.dlg@40tude.net:
    >>>>
    >>>>>>> And thats the easy bit. There are many distro specific hacks and the
    >>>>>>> need to compile from CVS in many cases.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I did absolutely nothing with my sound setup, in either Hardy or
    >>>>>> Gutsy, it all just worked. My use of sound is mostly watching movies
    >>>>>> or listening to music.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> i
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Try running Ardour and see what happens.
    >>>>
    >>>> Well, when I installed Ubuntu, the audio just, worked, and I just installed
    >>>> Ardour a couple of days ago, and by golly, that just worked too.
    >>>
    >>> What sound system are you running with Ardour? >

    >>
    >>
    >> I ran Ardour, it seems like something complicated, but it records and
    >> plays sound. I am not really interested in proceeding with it. I
    >> think that it is for mixing sound, like I can record a classical music
    >> performance, and sound of my fart, and mix that together.
    >>
    >> i

    >
    > This reminds me of Rick saying Amarok "worked for him" when I gave
    > details as to how it was useless at playlist management with big music
    > catalogs. It turned out after probing he only had about 10 songs on it
    > and it "met his needs". Your usage sounds similar with all due respect.


    It's a case of personal needs, no? I have about 5000 songs in Amarok,
    and it suits my needs fine. And I have no need for Ardour. I can
    install it, verify it's basic functionality, but I'd never use it
    again beyond that...


    --
    Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
    joe at hits - buffalo dot com
    "Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
    time..." - Danny, American History X

  10. Re: [News] Red Hat Developer's Update on PulseAudio, Fedora Live CDs Interview

    >> Honestly, I have no clue as to what SS (and can't check right now),
    >> whatever was installed when the OS was installed and detected it. It
    >> worked properly right off the bat, so no reason to dig into it at
    >> all.

    >
    > Please report back.
    >


    In the device manager I see several lines for ALSA....Capture Device, Control Device, MIDI Device, and 2
    different Playback Devices, DAC2/ADC and DAC1 ALSA PLayback device.

    And also DAC2/ADC OSS MIDI Device, OSS Control Device, and OSS PCM Device (times 3).
    >>
    >> I'm sure I'd be able to tell you if I had a major problem and had to
    >> troubleshoot it, but all went smooth.

    >
    > Sure it did.
    >
    >>
    >> The HW is a CreativeLabs ES1371 chipset, so I'm sure quite common.
    >> Well, maybe not, it is a PCI card and not on-board.

    >
    >
    > Uh huh.
    >
    >>
    >> I didn't use Ardour much, just to check it out to see if it worked. I
    >> didn't build a large project or anything, but it accepted tracks,
    >> allowed editing, mixing, etc. I didn't try recording with it though.

    >
    > So, you really dont know much about it at all?


    About Ardour, specifically in detail, no. About the use of non-linear video and audio editing on a PC, yes.

  11. Re: [News] Red Hat Developer's Update on PulseAudio, Fedora Live CDs Interview

    >>> Ardour seems like a decent OSS application, comparable to some of
    >>> the commercial (not top-end though) Windows audio s/w just like it I
    >>> have used.

    >>
    >> And yet you didn't record anything with it?
    >>
    >> Uh, ok.

    >
    > I was trying to be nice, but obviously he didn't get anything working
    > with Ardour because you need Jack to get it going and he would have
    > mentioned that.


    Obviously nothing.

    No, I didn't know Jack needed to be installed, but you know what, it is. I don't remember installing it
    maybe it came down with Ardour from aptitude. I saw it in the Audio/Video menu after I installed Ardour
    and was looking to start that. I started Jack, looked at it, saw what it was for, said to myself...'well the
    audio works, so I'm not going to f with that'.

    OK, next time I need to prove that something works on this system, I'll post the install log along with all of
    it's dependencies and everything else even remotely related to it.

    > IOW I set him up, but the other guy spilled the beans.


    You set me up ?! That's funny.

    > It's just another Linux advocate's "works for me" post, and not a very
    > good one at all.


    No, it's not a Linux advocate's post. Just a post. And just the truth.

  12. Re: [News] Red Hat Developer's Update on PulseAudio, Fedora Live CDs Interview

    On 2008-04-11, Hadron wrote:
    > Ignoramus9437 writes:
    >
    >> On 2008-04-11, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>> On 10 Apr 2008 21:43:42 GMT, DanS wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Moshe Goldfarb wrote in
    >>>> news:157i64ax9oq8z$.1dj8ysl6450oc$.dlg@40tude.net:
    >>>>
    >>>>>>> And thats the easy bit. There are many distro specific hacks and the
    >>>>>>> need to compile from CVS in many cases.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I did absolutely nothing with my sound setup, in either Hardy or
    >>>>>> Gutsy, it all just worked. My use of sound is mostly watching movies
    >>>>>> or listening to music.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> i
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Try running Ardour and see what happens.
    >>>>
    >>>> Well, when I installed Ubuntu, the audio just, worked, and I just installed
    >>>> Ardour a couple of days ago, and by golly, that just worked too.
    >>>
    >>> What sound system are you running with Ardour? >

    >>
    >>
    >> I ran Ardour, it seems like something complicated, but it records and
    >> plays sound. I am not really interested in proceeding with it. I
    >> think that it is for mixing sound, like I can record a classical music
    >> performance, and sound of my fart, and mix that together.
    >>
    >> i

    >
    > This reminds me of Rick saying Amarok "worked for him" when I gave
    > details as to how it was useless at playlist management with big music
    > catalogs. It turned out after probing he only had about 10 songs on it
    > and it "met his needs". Your usage sounds similar with all due respect.


    Well, I have about 12G of music, but yes, my needs are simple. One
    important thing is that I have multiple users at home, so it would be
    good for sound to work when two users are using the sound
    device. Typical example is a stopped youtube video for one user and
    another user playing a song.

    I believe, though I have not verified, that it should work with
    PulseAudio now. I am moving from a Fedora home server to a Ubuntu
    server now. It involves a lot of things, email, nfs, etc.

    Doesn't xine have playlist support?

    i

  13. Re: [News] Red Hat Developer's Update on PulseAudio, Fedora Live CDs Interview

    Ignoramus6985 writes:

    > On 2008-04-11, Hadron wrote:
    >> Ignoramus9437 writes:
    >>
    >>> On 2008-04-11, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>>> On 10 Apr 2008 21:43:42 GMT, DanS wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Moshe Goldfarb wrote in
    >>>>> news:157i64ax9oq8z$.1dj8ysl6450oc$.dlg@40tude.net:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>>> And thats the easy bit. There are many distro specific hacks and the
    >>>>>>>> need to compile from CVS in many cases.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> I did absolutely nothing with my sound setup, in either Hardy or
    >>>>>>> Gutsy, it all just worked. My use of sound is mostly watching movies
    >>>>>>> or listening to music.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> i
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Try running Ardour and see what happens.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Well, when I installed Ubuntu, the audio just, worked, and I just installed
    >>>>> Ardour a couple of days ago, and by golly, that just worked too.
    >>>>
    >>>> What sound system are you running with Ardour? >
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> I ran Ardour, it seems like something complicated, but it records and
    >>> plays sound. I am not really interested in proceeding with it. I
    >>> think that it is for mixing sound, like I can record a classical music
    >>> performance, and sound of my fart, and mix that together.
    >>>
    >>> i

    >>
    >> This reminds me of Rick saying Amarok "worked for him" when I gave
    >> details as to how it was useless at playlist management with big music
    >> catalogs. It turned out after probing he only had about 10 songs on it
    >> and it "met his needs". Your usage sounds similar with all due respect.

    >
    > Well, I have about 12G of music, but yes, my needs are simple. One
    > important thing is that I have multiple users at home, so it would be
    > good for sound to work when two users are using the sound
    > device. Typical example is a stopped youtube video for one user and
    > another user playing a song.
    >
    > I believe, though I have not verified, that it should work with
    > PulseAudio now. I am moving from a Fedora home server to a Ubuntu
    > server now. It involves a lot of things, email, nfs, etc.
    >
    > Doesn't xine have playlist support?
    >
    > i


    I've never quite understood the xine player - ugly, non confirming,
    buggy and plain "yuck".

    The xine engine is used as the "sound engine" in Amarok though - the
    only one I can select. Pulseaudio as the "output plugin". Don't ask me
    how that all fits together. Its a mess and frequently freezes.

    Best player *by far* IMO is mplayer. Here's a test for you regarding
    buggy half arsed Linux multimedia and Amarok in particular.

    Here is my one liner shell script to play bbc radio 4:

    mplayer -playlist http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/realplayer/media/fmg2.ram

    Works great!

    Now add that to Amarok and try it. It plays only until the first cache
    is exhausted. I dont know why and ran out of energy chasing it down and
    gave up as using amarok as my main audio system.

  14. Re: [News] Red Hat Developer's Update on PulseAudio, Fedora Live CDs Interview

    DanS writes:

    >>>> Ardour seems like a decent OSS application, comparable to some of
    >>>> the commercial (not top-end though) Windows audio s/w just like it I
    >>>> have used.
    >>>
    >>> And yet you didn't record anything with it?
    >>>
    >>> Uh, ok.

    >>
    >> I was trying to be nice, but obviously he didn't get anything working
    >> with Ardour because you need Jack to get it going and he would have
    >> mentioned that.

    >
    > Obviously nothing.
    >
    > No, I didn't know Jack needed to be installed, but you know what, it is. I don't remember installing it
    > maybe it came down with Ardour from aptitude. I saw it in the Audio/Video menu after I installed Ardour
    > and was looking to start that. I started Jack, looked at it, saw what it was for, said to myself...'well the
    > audio works, so I'm not going to f with that'.
    >
    > OK, next time I need to prove that something works on this system, I'll post the install log along with all of
    > it's dependencies and everything else even remotely related to it.
    >
    >> IOW I set him up, but the other guy spilled the beans.

    >
    > You set me up ?! That's funny.
    >
    >> It's just another Linux advocate's "works for me" post, and not a very
    >> good one at all.

    >
    > No, it's not a Linux advocate's post. Just a post. And just the truth.


    Seriously, what did you use it for? You already said you didn't record
    anything.

    What HW and audio sources did you use?

  15. Re: [News] Red Hat Developer's Update on PulseAudio, Fedora Live CDs Interview

    Hadron wrote in
    news:ftnpkm$ntj$2@registered.motzarella.org:

    > DanS writes:
    >
    >>>>> Ardour seems like a decent OSS application, comparable to some of
    >>>>> the commercial (not top-end though) Windows audio s/w just like it
    >>>>> I have used.
    >>>>
    >>>> And yet you didn't record anything with it?
    >>>>
    >>>> Uh, ok.
    >>>
    >>> I was trying to be nice, but obviously he didn't get anything
    >>> working with Ardour because you need Jack to get it going and he
    >>> would have mentioned that.

    >>
    >> Obviously nothing.
    >>
    >> No, I didn't know Jack needed to be installed, but you know what, it
    >> is. I don't remember installing it maybe it came down with Ardour
    >> from aptitude. I saw it in the Audio/Video menu after I installed
    >> Ardour and was looking to start that. I started Jack, looked at it,
    >> saw what it was for, said to myself...'well the audio works, so I'm
    >> not going to f with that'.
    >>
    >> OK, next time I need to prove that something works on this system,
    >> I'll post the install log along with all of it's dependencies and
    >> everything else even remotely related to it.
    >>
    >>> IOW I set him up, but the other guy spilled the beans.

    >>
    >> You set me up ?! That's funny.
    >>
    >>> It's just another Linux advocate's "works for me" post, and not a
    >>> very good one at all.

    >>
    >> No, it's not a Linux advocate's post. Just a post. And just the
    >> truth.

    >
    > Seriously, what did you use it for? You already said you didn't record
    > anything.
    >
    > What HW and audio sources did you use?


    The hardware was described in an earlier post from this morning.

    And yes, I didn't record anything _directly_ in Ardour, which means I had
    existing audio files that I had 'imported' into Ardour to check out it's
    mixing and editing capabilities.








  16. Re: [News] Red Hat Developer's Update on PulseAudio, Fedora Live CDs Interview

    DanS writes:

    > Hadron wrote in
    > news:ftnpkm$ntj$2@registered.motzarella.org:
    >
    >> DanS writes:
    >>
    >>>>>> Ardour seems like a decent OSS application, comparable to some of
    >>>>>> the commercial (not top-end though) Windows audio s/w just like it
    >>>>>> I have used.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> And yet you didn't record anything with it?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Uh, ok.
    >>>>
    >>>> I was trying to be nice, but obviously he didn't get anything
    >>>> working with Ardour because you need Jack to get it going and he
    >>>> would have mentioned that.
    >>>
    >>> Obviously nothing.
    >>>
    >>> No, I didn't know Jack needed to be installed, but you know what, it
    >>> is. I don't remember installing it maybe it came down with Ardour
    >>> from aptitude. I saw it in the Audio/Video menu after I installed
    >>> Ardour and was looking to start that. I started Jack, looked at it,
    >>> saw what it was for, said to myself...'well the audio works, so I'm
    >>> not going to f with that'.
    >>>
    >>> OK, next time I need to prove that something works on this system,
    >>> I'll post the install log along with all of it's dependencies and
    >>> everything else even remotely related to it.
    >>>
    >>>> IOW I set him up, but the other guy spilled the beans.
    >>>
    >>> You set me up ?! That's funny.
    >>>
    >>>> It's just another Linux advocate's "works for me" post, and not a
    >>>> very good one at all.
    >>>
    >>> No, it's not a Linux advocate's post. Just a post. And just the
    >>> truth.

    >>
    >> Seriously, what did you use it for? You already said you didn't record
    >> anything.
    >>
    >> What HW and audio sources did you use?

    >
    > The hardware was described in an earlier post from this morning.
    >
    > And yes, I didn't record anything _directly_ in Ardour, which means I had
    > existing audio files that I had 'imported' into Ardour to check out it's
    > mixing and editing capabilities.


    So you didn't use multi source at all? Look, admit it for you're making
    things up or dont know what Ardour is for.

  17. Re: [News] Red Hat Developer's Update on PulseAudio, Fedora Live CDs Interview

    On 2008-04-11, Hadron wrote:
    > Ignoramus6985 writes:
    >
    >> On 2008-04-11, Hadron wrote:
    >>> Ignoramus9437 writes:
    >>>
    >>>> On 2008-04-11, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>>>> On 10 Apr 2008 21:43:42 GMT, DanS wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Moshe Goldfarb wrote in
    >>>>>> news:157i64ax9oq8z$.1dj8ysl6450oc$.dlg@40tude.net:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> And thats the easy bit. There are many distro specific hacks and the
    >>>>>>>>> need to compile from CVS in many cases.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> I did absolutely nothing with my sound setup, in either Hardy or
    >>>>>>>> Gutsy, it all just worked. My use of sound is mostly watching movies
    >>>>>>>> or listening to music.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> i
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Try running Ardour and see what happens.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Well, when I installed Ubuntu, the audio just, worked, and I just installed
    >>>>>> Ardour a couple of days ago, and by golly, that just worked too.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> What sound system are you running with Ardour? >
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> I ran Ardour, it seems like something complicated, but it records and
    >>>> plays sound. I am not really interested in proceeding with it. I
    >>>> think that it is for mixing sound, like I can record a classical music
    >>>> performance, and sound of my fart, and mix that together.
    >>>>
    >>>> i
    >>>
    >>> This reminds me of Rick saying Amarok "worked for him" when I gave
    >>> details as to how it was useless at playlist management with big music
    >>> catalogs. It turned out after probing he only had about 10 songs on it
    >>> and it "met his needs". Your usage sounds similar with all due respect.

    >>
    >> Well, I have about 12G of music, but yes, my needs are simple. One
    >> important thing is that I have multiple users at home, so it would be
    >> good for sound to work when two users are using the sound
    >> device. Typical example is a stopped youtube video for one user and
    >> another user playing a song.
    >>
    >> I believe, though I have not verified, that it should work with
    >> PulseAudio now. I am moving from a Fedora home server to a Ubuntu
    >> server now. It involves a lot of things, email, nfs, etc.
    >>
    >> Doesn't xine have playlist support?
    >>
    >> i

    >
    > I've never quite understood the xine player - ugly, non confirming,
    > buggy and plain "yuck".


    I only use mplayer.

    > The xine engine is used as the "sound engine" in Amarok though - the
    > only one I can select. Pulseaudio as the "output plugin". Don't ask me
    > how that all fits together. Its a mess and frequently freezes.
    >
    > Best player *by far* IMO is mplayer. Here's a test for you regarding
    > buggy half arsed Linux multimedia and Amarok in particular.
    >
    > Here is my one liner shell script to play bbc radio 4:
    >
    > mplayer -playlist http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/realplayer/media/fmg2.ram


    Is there a BBC webpage with links to its radio channels?

    > Works great!
    >
    > Now add that to Amarok and try it. It plays only until the first cache
    > is exhausted. I dont know why and ran out of energy chasing it down and
    > gave up as using amarok as my main audio system.


    Never heard of amarok, but I will give it a try tonight if I can.

    i

  18. Re: [News] Red Hat Developer's Update on PulseAudio, Fedora Live CDs Interview

    Hadron wrote in
    news:ftnsui$ntj$8@registered.motzarella.org:

    > DanS writes:
    >
    >> Hadron wrote in
    >> news:ftnpkm$ntj$2@registered.motzarella.org:
    >>
    >>> DanS writes:
    >>>
    >>>>>>> Ardour seems like a decent OSS application, comparable to some
    >>>>>>> of the commercial (not top-end though) Windows audio s/w just
    >>>>>>> like it I have used.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> And yet you didn't record anything with it?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Uh, ok.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I was trying to be nice, but obviously he didn't get anything
    >>>>> working with Ardour because you need Jack to get it going and he
    >>>>> would have mentioned that.
    >>>>
    >>>> Obviously nothing.
    >>>>
    >>>> No, I didn't know Jack needed to be installed, but you know what,
    >>>> it is. I don't remember installing it maybe it came down with
    >>>> Ardour from aptitude. I saw it in the Audio/Video menu after I
    >>>> installed Ardour and was looking to start that. I started Jack,
    >>>> looked at it, saw what it was for, said to myself...'well the audio
    >>>> works, so I'm not going to f with that'.
    >>>>
    >>>> OK, next time I need to prove that something works on this system,
    >>>> I'll post the install log along with all of it's dependencies and
    >>>> everything else even remotely related to it.
    >>>>
    >>>>> IOW I set him up, but the other guy spilled the beans.
    >>>>
    >>>> You set me up ?! That's funny.
    >>>>
    >>>>> It's just another Linux advocate's "works for me" post, and not a
    >>>>> very good one at all.
    >>>>
    >>>> No, it's not a Linux advocate's post. Just a post. And just the
    >>>> truth.
    >>>
    >>> Seriously, what did you use it for? You already said you didn't
    >>> record anything.
    >>>
    >>> What HW and audio sources did you use?

    >>
    >> The hardware was described in an earlier post from this morning.
    >>
    >> And yes, I didn't record anything _directly_ in Ardour, which means I
    >> had existing audio files that I had 'imported' into Ardour to check
    >> out it's mixing and editing capabilities.

    >
    > So you didn't use multi source at all? Look, admit it for you're
    > making things up or dont know what Ardour is for.


    What I am admitting to is that I installed Ardour, and with the default
    install, it appeared to work properly with everything I tested, which I
    described to you, including the HW and SS installed. That is what I said,
    nothing more, nothing less.

    I am making nothing up and I do know Ardour is for. I have given you no
    other reason to suspect anything different other than the fact that it
    seems to install and work easily.










  19. Re: [News] Red Hat Developer's Update on PulseAudio, Fedora Live CDs Interview

    DanS writes:

    > Hadron wrote in
    > news:ftnsui$ntj$8@registered.motzarella.org:
    >
    >> DanS writes:
    >>
    >>> Hadron wrote in
    >>> news:ftnpkm$ntj$2@registered.motzarella.org:
    >>>
    >>>> DanS writes:
    >>>>
    >>>>>>>> Ardour seems like a decent OSS application, comparable to some
    >>>>>>>> of the commercial (not top-end though) Windows audio s/w just
    >>>>>>>> like it I have used.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> And yet you didn't record anything with it?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Uh, ok.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I was trying to be nice, but obviously he didn't get anything
    >>>>>> working with Ardour because you need Jack to get it going and he
    >>>>>> would have mentioned that.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Obviously nothing.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> No, I didn't know Jack needed to be installed, but you know what,
    >>>>> it is. I don't remember installing it maybe it came down with
    >>>>> Ardour from aptitude. I saw it in the Audio/Video menu after I
    >>>>> installed Ardour and was looking to start that. I started Jack,
    >>>>> looked at it, saw what it was for, said to myself...'well the audio
    >>>>> works, so I'm not going to f with that'.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> OK, next time I need to prove that something works on this system,
    >>>>> I'll post the install log along with all of it's dependencies and
    >>>>> everything else even remotely related to it.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> IOW I set him up, but the other guy spilled the beans.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> You set me up ?! That's funny.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> It's just another Linux advocate's "works for me" post, and not a
    >>>>>> very good one at all.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> No, it's not a Linux advocate's post. Just a post. And just the
    >>>>> truth.
    >>>>
    >>>> Seriously, what did you use it for? You already said you didn't
    >>>> record anything.
    >>>>
    >>>> What HW and audio sources did you use?
    >>>
    >>> The hardware was described in an earlier post from this morning.
    >>>
    >>> And yes, I didn't record anything _directly_ in Ardour, which means I
    >>> had existing audio files that I had 'imported' into Ardour to check
    >>> out it's mixing and editing capabilities.

    >>
    >> So you didn't use multi source at all? Look, admit it for you're
    >> making things up or dont know what Ardour is for.

    >
    > What I am admitting to is that I installed Ardour, and with the default
    > install, it appeared to work properly with everything I tested, which I
    > described to you, including the HW and SS installed. That is what I said,
    > nothing more, nothing less.
    >
    > I am making nothing up and I do know Ardour is for. I have given you no
    > other reason to suspect anything different other than the fact that it
    > seems to install and work easily.


    But by your own admission you havent actually used it for anything that
    it was designed for - namely low latency mixing for separate audio
    sources.


    In other words your "me too" was pointless.

    Sorry DanS, I'm sure you meant well, but really.

  20. Re: [News] Red Hat Developer's Update on PulseAudio, Fedora Live CDs Interview

    Hadron wrote in
    news:fto2g1$97m$2@registered.motzarella.org:

    > DanS writes:
    >
    >> Hadron wrote in
    >> news:ftnsui$ntj$8@registered.motzarella.org:
    >>
    >>> DanS writes:
    >>>
    >>>> Hadron wrote in
    >>>> news:ftnpkm$ntj$2@registered.motzarella.org:
    >>>>
    >>>>> DanS writes:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Ardour seems like a decent OSS application, comparable to some
    >>>>>>>>> of the commercial (not top-end though) Windows audio s/w just
    >>>>>>>>> like it I have used.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> And yet you didn't record anything with it?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Uh, ok.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> I was trying to be nice, but obviously he didn't get anything
    >>>>>>> working with Ardour because you need Jack to get it going and he
    >>>>>>> would have mentioned that.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Obviously nothing.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> No, I didn't know Jack needed to be installed, but you know what,
    >>>>>> it is. I don't remember installing it maybe it came down with
    >>>>>> Ardour from aptitude. I saw it in the Audio/Video menu after I
    >>>>>> installed Ardour and was looking to start that. I started Jack,
    >>>>>> looked at it, saw what it was for, said to myself...'well the
    >>>>>> audio works, so I'm not going to f with that'.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> OK, next time I need to prove that something works on this
    >>>>>> system, I'll post the install log along with all of it's
    >>>>>> dependencies and everything else even remotely related to it.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> IOW I set him up, but the other guy spilled the beans.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> You set me up ?! That's funny.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> It's just another Linux advocate's "works for me" post, and not
    >>>>>>> a very good one at all.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> No, it's not a Linux advocate's post. Just a post. And just the
    >>>>>> truth.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Seriously, what did you use it for? You already said you didn't
    >>>>> record anything.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> What HW and audio sources did you use?
    >>>>
    >>>> The hardware was described in an earlier post from this morning.
    >>>>
    >>>> And yes, I didn't record anything _directly_ in Ardour, which means
    >>>> I had existing audio files that I had 'imported' into Ardour to
    >>>> check out it's mixing and editing capabilities.
    >>>
    >>> So you didn't use multi source at all? Look, admit it for you're
    >>> making things up or dont know what Ardour is for.

    >>
    >> What I am admitting to is that I installed Ardour, and with the
    >> default install, it appeared to work properly with everything I
    >> tested, which I described to you, including the HW and SS installed.
    >> That is what I said, nothing more, nothing less.
    >>
    >> I am making nothing up and I do know Ardour is for. I have given you
    >> no other reason to suspect anything different other than the fact
    >> that it seems to install and work easily.

    >
    > But by your own admission you havent actually used it for anything
    > that it was designed for - namely low latency mixing for separate
    > audio sources.


    For a minute there, I thought you were different from GoldFart.

    But I was wrong.

    > In other words your "me too" was pointless.


    What is pointless is talking to you...or GoldFart...or Frank. In typical
    (anyOS)-tard fashion, you will continue to pick apart anything I say and
    come up with some _other_ reason as to why I'm wrong, and if I disprove
    that, you will just come up with some new miniscule detail to dispute.

    I could do all of this with you physically in the room and watching
    everything happen and you _still_ wouldn't believe it.

    I'm doing nothing but wasting my time, so, I'm done with you.

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