Re: Works For Me - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on Re: Works For Me - Ubuntu ; On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 05:10:06 +0200, Hadron wrote: > Just to continue the issue with sound. I have been ripping my hair out > recently trying to get multiple sound devices working. > > I have given up for ...

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Thread: Re: Works For Me

  1. Re: Works For Me

    On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 05:10:06 +0200, Hadron wrote:

    > Just to continue the issue with sound. I have been ripping my hair out
    > recently trying to get multiple sound devices working.
    >
    > I have given up for a while. it simply does not work in too many
    > cases. Too much choice. Not enough movement on bug fixing through
    > developers being spread too thin. Do people STILL think choice is a
    > wonderful thing?
    >
    > Here is the Ubuntu story (usually much better than Debian btw)
    >
    > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=4654083
    >
    > "Yes, but for some bugs, anyway, there are hundreds or thousands with
    > these kinds of problems (sound, flash without sound, crash, etc etc) and
    > many submit these bugs, but few are being fixed."
    >
    > "I'm pretty sure I've tried every solution known to man and flash sound
    > still doesn't work. There has to be something I'm not doing."
    >
    > "hey what the **** is the ubuntu develpment team is doing now? ou yea
    > they're doing 8.04 and dont give a **** about sound issues. Nobody that
    > will have problems with sound will keep ubuntu."
    >
    > Sigh.


    This is a classic reason why Linux is failing miserably as a desktop
    operating system.
    People just want to play music/sounds.
    They want to be able to play more than one sound at once and they want the
    plugins that web pages use for sound to work.

    Windows has been doing this with since Windows 98 and it has been totally
    transparent to the end user.

    Linux, with it's myriad of sound servers STILL can't manage to make it work
    properly across the 1000 or so different versions of Linux out there.

    Why is this so difficult?

    ALSA loaded into the default 2.6 kernel was supposed to be the end of all
    this confusion but it wasn't.
    New sound systems are being released all the time and none of them work
    fully and perfectly with all applications.
    Worse still, some of them interfere with each other causing instability and
    even worse problems.
    And if that wasn't bad enough the documentation for most of them is
    terrible.

    It's a clusterfsck and getting worse by the day.

    So what is the Linux communities response to all of this?

    Release even more broken distributions that is what.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  2. Re: Works For Me

    Moshe Goldfarb wrote:

    [ some stuff ]

    You must be really, really afraid of Linux.

    Why are you afraid of an OS which, as you claim, sits at 0.6% or less?

    Yes, you must be very frightened.
    --
    These are my personal views and not those of Fujitsu Siemens Computers!
    Josef Möllers (Pinguinpfleger bei FSC)
    If failure had no penalty success would not be a prize (T. Pratchett)
    Company Details: http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/imprint.html

  3. Re: Works For Me

    On Sun, 06 Apr 2008 23:22:45 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:

    > On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 05:10:06 +0200, Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> Just to continue the issue with sound. I have been ripping my hair out
    >> recently trying to get multiple sound devices working.
    >>
    >> I have given up for a while. it simply does not work in too many cases.
    >> Too much choice. Not enough movement on bug fixing through developers
    >> being spread too thin. Do people STILL think choice is a wonderful
    >> thing?
    >>
    >> Here is the Ubuntu story (usually much better than Debian btw)
    >>
    >> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=4654083
    >>
    >> "Yes, but for some bugs, anyway, there are hundreds or thousands with
    >> these kinds of problems (sound, flash without sound, crash, etc etc)
    >> and many submit these bugs, but few are being fixed."
    >>
    >> "I'm pretty sure I've tried every solution known to man and flash sound
    >> still doesn't work. There has to be something I'm not doing."
    >>
    >> "hey what the **** is the ubuntu develpment team is doing now? ou yea
    >> they're doing 8.04 and dont give a **** about sound issues. Nobody that
    >> will have problems with sound will keep ubuntu."
    >>
    >> Sigh.

    >
    > This is a classic reason why Linux is failing miserably as a desktop
    > operating system.


    .... in your opinion.

    > People just want to play music/sounds. They want to be able to play more
    > than one sound at once and they want the plugins that web pages use for
    > sound to work.


    I play sounds. My system will play different sounds while receiving
    streaming audio or or video.

    >
    > Windows has been doing this with since Windows 98 and it has been
    > totally transparent to the end user.


    No, Microsoft has been doing this. There is no one corporation that runs
    OSS based software.

    >
    > Linux, with it's myriad of sound servers STILL can't manage to make it
    > work properly across the 1000 or so different versions of Linux out
    > there.


    Name 200 distros.

    >
    > Why is this so difficult?
    >
    > ALSA loaded into the default 2.6 kernel was supposed to be the end of
    > all this confusion but it wasn't.
    > New sound systems are being released all the time and none of them work
    > fully and perfectly with all applications. Worse still, some of them
    > interfere with each other causing instability and even worse problems.
    > And if that wasn't bad enough the documentation for most of them is
    > terrible.
    >
    > It's a clusterfsck and getting worse by the day.
    >
    > So what is the Linux communities response to all of this?
    >
    > Release even more broken distributions that is what.


    So what? So what if someone releases a broken distribution?

    --
    Rick

  4. Re: Works For Me

    Rick wrote:

    > So what? So what if someone releases a broken distribution?


    Yeah. Like Vista's *not* broken?

    --
    RonB
    "There's a story there...somewhere"

  5. Re: Works For Me

    On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 10:00:25 +0200, Josef Moellers wrote:

    > Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >
    > [ some stuff ]
    >
    > You must be really, really afraid of Linux.
    >
    > Why are you afraid of an OS which, as you claim, sits at 0.6% or less?
    >
    > Yes, you must be very frightened.


    Afraid of Linux?
    Hardly.
    Actually I like Linux, it's crazy Linux zealots, especially the hypocrite
    ones that I detest.

    See Roy Schestowitz, Mark Kent, [Homer] and a few others for details about
    what a hypocritical Linux zealot is
    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  6. Re: Works For Me

    On 2008-04-07, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    > On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 10:00:25 +0200, Josef Moellers wrote:
    >
    >> Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>
    >> [ some stuff ]
    >>
    >> You must be really, really afraid of Linux.
    >>
    >> Why are you afraid of an OS which, as you claim, sits at 0.6% or less?
    >>
    >> Yes, you must be very frightened.

    >
    > Afraid of Linux?
    > Hardly.
    > Actually I like Linux, it's crazy Linux zealots, especially the hypocrite
    > ones that I detest.


    So, what kind of linux do you run? What do you do with it?

    i

  7. Re: Works For Me

    On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 09:11:47 -0500, Ignoramus10392 wrote:

    > On 2008-04-07, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >> On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 10:00:25 +0200, Josef Moellers wrote:
    >>
    >>> Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>>
    >>> [ some stuff ]
    >>>
    >>> You must be really, really afraid of Linux.
    >>>
    >>> Why are you afraid of an OS which, as you claim, sits at 0.6% or less?
    >>>
    >>> Yes, you must be very frightened.

    >>
    >> Afraid of Linux?
    >> Hardly.
    >> Actually I like Linux, it's crazy Linux zealots, especially the hypocrite
    >> ones that I detest.

    >
    > So, what kind of linux do you run? What do you do with it?
    >
    > i


    I run 2 systems with PCLinuxOS.
    One is the family PC and the other is my test system.

    The family PC is used for just about everything.
    The test system is used to expose false claims made by the Lino loons.

    Sometimes I have Ubuntu on the test system and I have tried some other
    distributions as well like DSL, Puppy and Mint.


    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  8. Re: Works For Me

    Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    > On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 10:00:25 +0200, Josef Moellers wrote:
    >
    >> Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>
    >> [ some stuff ]
    >>
    >> You must be really, really afraid of Linux.
    >>
    >> Why are you afraid of an OS which, as you claim, sits at 0.6% or less?
    >>
    >> Yes, you must be very frightened.

    >
    > Afraid of Linux?
    > Hardly.


    Then why do you need to post these rantings again and again?
    You sound afraid.

    --
    These are my personal views and not those of Fujitsu Siemens Computers!
    Josef Möllers (Pinguinpfleger bei FSC)
    If failure had no penalty success would not be a prize (T. Pratchett)
    Company Details: http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/imprint.html

  9. Re: Works For Me

    On 2008-04-07, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    > On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 09:11:47 -0500, Ignoramus10392 wrote:
    >
    >> On 2008-04-07, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>> On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 10:00:25 +0200, Josef Moellers wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> [ some stuff ]
    >>>>
    >>>> You must be really, really afraid of Linux.
    >>>>
    >>>> Why are you afraid of an OS which, as you claim, sits at 0.6% or less?
    >>>>
    >>>> Yes, you must be very frightened.
    >>>
    >>> Afraid of Linux?
    >>> Hardly.
    >>> Actually I like Linux, it's crazy Linux zealots, especially the hypocrite
    >>> ones that I detest.

    >>
    >> So, what kind of linux do you run? What do you do with it?
    >>
    >> i

    >
    > I run 2 systems with PCLinuxOS.
    > One is the family PC and the other is my test system.
    >
    > The family PC is used for just about everything.
    > The test system is used to expose false claims made by the Lino loons.
    >
    > Sometimes I have Ubuntu on the test system and I have tried some other
    > distributions as well like DSL, Puppy and Mint.
    >
    >


    Very nice. I am going to soon set up a server for friends and
    relatives, who are nice people, but who may become compromised (so
    that their password would be misused to log on to their account here
    without authorization). I want that compsomise to be confined to that
    junk server.

    i

  10. Re: Works For Me

    Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >
    > Afraid of Linux?
    > Hardly.
    > Actually I like Linux, it's crazy Linux zealots, especially the
    > hypocrite ones that I detest.
    >
    > See Roy Schestowitz, Mark Kent, [Homer] and a few others for details
    > about what a hypocritical Linux zealot is


    This may help:

    1. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with hypocrisy; the sign that says
    "This way to Chicago" doesn't actually GO to Chicago itself (thereby
    demonstrating more intelligence than those that follow its advice). Also,
    85% of gynecologists are men.

    2. Linux serves a very useful purpose. It drains away most of the
    malcontents, the nay-sayers, the nit-pickers, pokenoses, and cut-purses, so
    the rest of us can have a better computing experience. It's like Bingo Night
    and your mother-in-law.



  11. Re: Works For Me

    On Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:05:18 -0500, HeyBub wrote:

    > Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>
    >> Afraid of Linux?
    >> Hardly.
    >> Actually I like Linux, it's crazy Linux zealots, especially the
    >> hypocrite ones that I detest.
    >>
    >> See Roy Schestowitz, Mark Kent, [Homer] and a few others for details
    >> about what a hypocritical Linux zealot is

    >
    > This may help:
    >
    > 1. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with hypocrisy; the sign that says
    > "This way to Chicago" doesn't actually GO to Chicago itself (thereby
    > demonstrating more intelligence than those that follow its advice). Also,
    > 85% of gynecologists are men.
    >
    > 2. Linux serves a very useful purpose. It drains away most of the
    > malcontents, the nay-sayers, the nit-pickers, pokenoses, and cut-purses, so
    > the rest of us can have a better computing experience. It's like Bingo Night
    > and your mother-in-law.


    I've never heard it explained quite that way before, but I'll give you
    points for being creative!

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  12. Re: Works For Me

    HeyBub wrote:
    > There's nothing intrinsically wrong with hypocrisy; the sign that says
    > "This way to Chicago" doesn't actually GO to Chicago itself (thereby
    > demonstrating more intelligence than those that follow its advice). Also,
    > 85% of gynecologists are men.


    Your analogy suggests that you do not know the meaning of hypocrisy. I
    say this as a purely constructive comment, and not to engage in any sort
    of dispute over Linux. Seriously, look up the word, and you might
    change your ethic about carrying false airs.


  13. Re: Works For Me

    HeyBub wrote:

    > This may help:


    *plonk*



  14. Re: Works For Me

    Moshe Goldfarb wrote in
    news:zvfge1ih541n.dz2p4ymhalrp$.dlg@40tude.net:

    >> So, what kind of linux do you run? What do you do with it?
    >>
    >> i

    >
    > I run 2 systems with PCLinuxOS.
    > One is the family PC and the other is my test system.
    >
    > The family PC is used for just about everything.


    (Ding! Ding! Ding!)

    Another hypocritical statement by you.

    Since you claim continuously that Linux can't do anything, how can you do
    just about everything with PCLinuxOS ?

  15. Re: Works For Me

    You guys are too touchy, Moshe pulls your collective legs and you
    respond wonderfully. I am making this comment as a 1996 Troll of the
    year nominee (did not win because the election was disrupted).

    i

    On 2008-04-07, DanS wrote:
    > Moshe Goldfarb wrote in
    > news:zvfge1ih541n.dz2p4ymhalrp$.dlg@40tude.net:
    >
    >>> So, what kind of linux do you run? What do you do with it?
    >>>
    >>> i

    >>
    >> I run 2 systems with PCLinuxOS.
    >> One is the family PC and the other is my test system.
    >>
    >> The family PC is used for just about everything.

    >
    > (Ding! Ding! Ding!)
    >
    > Another hypocritical statement by you.
    >
    > Since you claim continuously that Linux can't do anything, how can you do
    > just about everything with PCLinuxOS ?


  16. Re: Works For Me

    On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 10:00:33 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:

    > On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 10:00:25 +0200, Josef Moellers wrote:
    >
    >> Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>
    >> [ some stuff ]
    >>
    >> You must be really, really afraid of Linux.
    >>
    >> Why are you afraid of an OS which, as you claim, sits at 0.6% or less?
    >>
    >> Yes, you must be very frightened.

    >
    > Afraid of Linux?
    > Hardly.
    > Actually I like Linux, it's crazy Linux zealots, especially the
    > hypocrite ones that I detest.


    Really? You like Linux? You like what you call crapware and slopware?

    >
    > See Roy Schestowitz, Mark Kent, [Homer] and a few others for details
    > about what a hypocritical Linux zealot is



    --
    Rick

  17. Re: Works For Me

    On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 10:28:41 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:

    > On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 09:11:47 -0500, Ignoramus10392 wrote:
    >
    >> On 2008-04-07, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>> On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 10:00:25 +0200, Josef Moellers wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> [ some stuff ]
    >>>>
    >>>> You must be really, really afraid of Linux.
    >>>>
    >>>> Why are you afraid of an OS which, as you claim, sits at 0.6% or
    >>>> less?
    >>>>
    >>>> Yes, you must be very frightened.
    >>>
    >>> Afraid of Linux?
    >>> Hardly.
    >>> Actually I like Linux, it's crazy Linux zealots, especially the
    >>> hypocrite ones that I detest.

    >>
    >> So, what kind of linux do you run? What do you do with it?
    >>
    >> i

    >
    > I run 2 systems with PCLinuxOS.
    > One is the family PC and the other is my test system.
    >
    > The family PC is used for just about everything. The test system is used
    > to expose false claims made by the Lino loons.
    >
    > Sometimes I have Ubuntu on the test system and I have tried some other
    > distributions as well like DSL, Puppy and Mint.


    Why do you let your family use what you describe as crapware and slopware?


    --
    Rick

  18. Re: Works For Me

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Rick

    wrote
    on Mon, 07 Apr 2008 18:07:35 -0500
    :
    > On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 10:00:33 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >
    >> On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 10:00:25 +0200, Josef Moellers wrote:
    >>
    >>> Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>>
    >>> [ some stuff ]
    >>>
    >>> You must be really, really afraid of Linux.
    >>>
    >>> Why are you afraid of an OS which, as you claim, sits at 0.6% or less?
    >>>
    >>> Yes, you must be very frightened.

    >>
    >> Afraid of Linux?
    >> Hardly.
    >> Actually I like Linux, it's crazy Linux zealots, especially the
    >> hypocrite ones that I detest.

    >
    > Really? You like Linux? You like what you call crapware and slopware?


    Personally, I like Linux's int $0x80 firewall/call
    sequence, plus the fact that it's largely invisible to most
    of the rest of the system (at least to those of us who are
    old Unixheads). Its main sore point for me remains ALSA,
    which is (still?) doing some perturbations but generally
    works with the simpler stuff. Of course, most of this will
    cause MEGO for all but the most diehard developer types;
    "Linux" = "Ubuntu" for many, which annoys me. However,
    it does help adoption of the Linux kernel, plus the many
    freeware utilities (and some shareware and payware stuff)
    surrounding it.

    GL is a joy for me, though I am using proprietary
    nVidia drivers. These drivers, though, do work on my
    older model card (BT5500). I don't know the division of
    labor regarding Linux and X; hopefully Linux is doing the
    gruntwork at the device level leaving X to do the more
    abstract stuff.

    Of course Moshe is a little odd anyway; I have no idea as
    to his position on Vista but must conclude that he thinks
    that it is far more polished than Linux distros such as
    Ubuntu, despite many claims to the contrary.

    >
    >>
    >> See Roy Schestowitz, Mark Kent, [Homer] and a few others for details
    >> about what a hypocritical Linux zealot is

    >


    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    /dev/signature: Not a text file

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  19. Re: Works For Me

    "The Ghost In The Machine" wrote in message
    news:aioqc5-qc8.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...

    > Its main sore point for me remains ALSA,
    > which is (still?) doing some perturbations but generally
    > works with the simpler stuff.


    When did ALSA not give any trouble?

    > "Linux" = "Ubuntu" for many, which annoys me.


    That isn't necessarily a bad thing.

    "Linux" = "Ubuntu" for many, that is, not annoying you.

    > However,
    > it does help adoption


    That's the point, right there.

    > Of course Moshe is a little odd anyway; I have no idea as
    > to his position on Vista but must conclude that he thinks
    > that it is far more polished than Linux distros such as
    > Ubuntu, despite many claims to the contrary.


    ALL HAIL MICROSOFT WINDOWS VISTA!!! FOR IT SHALL GREATLY BOOST THE LINUX
    DESKTOP SHARE!!!1!!!

    --
    PT.IndoSat Kupang Nusa Tenggara Timur Indonesia



  20. Re: Works For Me

    On 07 Apr 2008 21:00:18 GMT, DanS wrote:

    > Moshe Goldfarb wrote in
    > news:zvfge1ih541n.dz2p4ymhalrp$.dlg@40tude.net:
    >
    >>> So, what kind of linux do you run? What do you do with it?
    >>>
    >>> i

    >>
    >> I run 2 systems with PCLinuxOS.
    >> One is the family PC and the other is my test system.
    >>
    >> The family PC is used for just about everything.

    >
    > (Ding! Ding! Ding!)
    >
    > Another hypocritical statement by you.
    >
    > Since you claim continuously that Linux can't do anything, how can you do
    > just about everything with PCLinuxOS ?


    Nice try but I don't claim Linux "can't do anything" to use your words.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

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