Re: Works For Me - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on Re: Works For Me - Ubuntu ; On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:24:11 +0700, Kadaitcha Man wrote: > "The Ghost In The Machine" wrote in message > news:aioqc5-qc8.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net... > >> Its main sore point for me remains ALSA, >> which is (still?) doing some perturbations but generally ...

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 41

Thread: Re: Works For Me

  1. Re: Works For Me

    On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:24:11 +0700, Kadaitcha Man wrote:

    > "The Ghost In The Machine" wrote in message
    > news:aioqc5-qc8.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
    >
    >> Its main sore point for me remains ALSA,
    >> which is (still?) doing some perturbations but generally
    >> works with the simpler stuff.

    >
    > When did ALSA not give any trouble?
    >
    >> "Linux" = "Ubuntu" for many, which annoys me.

    >
    > That isn't necessarily a bad thing.
    >
    > "Linux" = "Ubuntu" for many, that is, not annoying you.
    >
    >> However,
    >> it does help adoption

    >
    > That's the point, right there.
    >
    >> Of course Moshe is a little odd anyway; I have no idea as
    >> to his position on Vista but must conclude that he thinks
    >> that it is far more polished than Linux distros such as
    >> Ubuntu, despite many claims to the contrary.

    >
    > ALL HAIL MICROSOFT WINDOWS VISTA!!! FOR IT SHALL GREATLY BOOST THE LINUX
    > DESKTOP SHARE!!!1!!!


    For the record, I have stated many times that I do not like Vista.
    I think Vista stinks in fact and see no reason for people to move from XP
    to Vista.
    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  2. Re: Works For Me

    "Rick" stated in post
    CPydnZ1hWqJ3NGfanZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@supernews.com on 4/7/08 4:10 PM:

    > On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 10:28:41 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >
    >> On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 09:11:47 -0500, Ignoramus10392 wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 2008-04-07, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>>> On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 10:00:25 +0200, Josef Moellers wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> [ some stuff ]
    >>>>>
    >>>>> You must be really, really afraid of Linux.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Why are you afraid of an OS which, as you claim, sits at 0.6% or
    >>>>> less?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Yes, you must be very frightened.
    >>>>
    >>>> Afraid of Linux?
    >>>> Hardly.
    >>>> Actually I like Linux, it's crazy Linux zealots, especially the
    >>>> hypocrite ones that I detest.
    >>>
    >>> So, what kind of linux do you run? What do you do with it?
    >>>
    >>> i

    >>
    >> I run 2 systems with PCLinuxOS.
    >> One is the family PC and the other is my test system.
    >>
    >> The family PC is used for just about everything. The test system is used
    >> to expose false claims made by the Lino loons.
    >>
    >> Sometimes I have Ubuntu on the test system and I have tried some other
    >> distributions as well like DSL, Puppy and Mint.

    >
    > Why do you let your family use what you describe as crapware and slopware?
    >

    Let his family? Let? Do you have control issues. I cannot speak for
    others but my wife uses what she *wants* to use - not what I let her. As my
    kids get older they will be able to use any OS they want as well.

    Let.

    Give me a break.


    --
    It usually takes me more than three weeks to prepare a good impromptu
    speech. -- Mark Twain


  3. Re: Works For Me

    On 2008-04-08, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    > On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:24:11 +0700, Kadaitcha Man wrote:
    >
    >> "The Ghost In The Machine" wrote in message
    >> news:aioqc5-qc8.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
    >>
    >>> Its main sore point for me remains ALSA,
    >>> which is (still?) doing some perturbations but generally
    >>> works with the simpler stuff.

    >>
    >> When did ALSA not give any trouble?
    >>
    >>> "Linux" = "Ubuntu" for many, which annoys me.

    >>
    >> That isn't necessarily a bad thing.
    >>
    >> "Linux" = "Ubuntu" for many, that is, not annoying you.
    >>
    >>> However,
    >>> it does help adoption

    >>
    >> That's the point, right there.
    >>
    >>> Of course Moshe is a little odd anyway; I have no idea as
    >>> to his position on Vista but must conclude that he thinks
    >>> that it is far more polished than Linux distros such as
    >>> Ubuntu, despite many claims to the contrary.

    >>
    >> ALL HAIL MICROSOFT WINDOWS VISTA!!! FOR IT SHALL GREATLY BOOST THE LINUX
    >> DESKTOP SHARE!!!1!!!

    >
    > For the record, I have stated many times that I do not like Vista.
    > I think Vista stinks in fact and see no reason for people to move from XP
    > to Vista.


    Based on my 5 minutes of experience with Vista, it has one positive,
    which is a security model based around a concept similar to graphical
    sudo. It is an improvement over XP.

    Everything else is a total nightmare.

    XP got to the point where it was a completely usable OS with some weak
    points. It could run cygwin and firefox, server stuff, in fact my work
    XP machine that I use (besides Linux computers) looks a lot like a
    linux computer, with xterms, firefox, pidgin etc.

    It was definitely not as robust as Linux (based on my experience which
    I can detail), but it worked if not loaded too hard.

    Then along came Vista, which seems to be no good for anything.

    i

  4. Re: Works For Me

    "Ignoramus10392" wrote in message
    news:ZoqdnfeWrYNYd2fanZ2dnUVZ_uyinZ2d@giganews.com ...
    > On 2008-04-08, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >> On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:24:11 +0700, Kadaitcha Man wrote:
    >>
    >>> "The Ghost In The Machine" wrote in
    >>> message
    >>> news:aioqc5-qc8.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
    >>>
    >>>> Its main sore point for me remains ALSA,
    >>>> which is (still?) doing some perturbations but generally
    >>>> works with the simpler stuff.
    >>>
    >>> When did ALSA not give any trouble?
    >>>
    >>>> "Linux" = "Ubuntu" for many, which annoys me.
    >>>
    >>> That isn't necessarily a bad thing.
    >>>
    >>> "Linux" = "Ubuntu" for many, that is, not annoying you.
    >>>
    >>>> However,
    >>>> it does help adoption
    >>>
    >>> That's the point, right there.
    >>>
    >>>> Of course Moshe is a little odd anyway; I have no idea as
    >>>> to his position on Vista but must conclude that he thinks
    >>>> that it is far more polished than Linux distros such as
    >>>> Ubuntu, despite many claims to the contrary.
    >>>
    >>> ALL HAIL MICROSOFT WINDOWS VISTA!!! FOR IT SHALL GREATLY BOOST THE LINUX
    >>> DESKTOP SHARE!!!1!!!

    >>
    >> For the record, I have stated many times that I do not like Vista.
    >> I think Vista stinks in fact and see no reason for people to move from XP
    >> to Vista.

    >
    > Based on my 5 minutes of experience with Vista, it has one positive,
    > which is a security model based around a concept similar to graphical
    > sudo. It is an improvement over XP.


    If you had spent ten minutes on Vista, then rather than saying this:

    > Everything else is a total nightmare.


    You would say this:

    > Everything is a total nightmare.


    It is only an improvement in terms of alerting the user to potential risk.
    The endless nagging from User Account Control causes many people to want to
    turn the ****ing thing off.

    A constant nag that makes you want to wring its neck is not an improvement,
    rather it has the potential to pose an even greater security risk.

    > XP got to the point where it was a completely usable OS with some weak
    > points. It could run cygwin and firefox, server stuff, in fact my work
    > XP machine that I use (besides Linux computers) looks a lot like a
    > linux computer, with xterms, firefox, pidgin etc.
    >
    > It was definitely not as robust as Linux (based on my experience which
    > I can detail), but it worked if not loaded too hard.
    >
    > Then along came Vista, which seems to be no good for anything.


    I disagree. Vista is an excellent product for hurling ridicule at.

    --
    PT.IndoSat Kupang Nusa Tenggara Timur Indonesia



  5. Re: Works For Me

    On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 23:08:48 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:

    > On 07 Apr 2008 21:00:18 GMT, DanS wrote:
    >
    >> Moshe Goldfarb wrote in
    >> news:zvfge1ih541n.dz2p4ymhalrp$.dlg@40tude.net:
    >>
    >>>> So, what kind of linux do you run? What do you do with it?
    >>>>
    >>>> i
    >>>
    >>> I run 2 systems with PCLinuxOS.
    >>> One is the family PC and the other is my test system.
    >>>
    >>> The family PC is used for just about everything.

    >>
    >> (Ding! Ding! Ding!)
    >>
    >> Another hypocritical statement by you.
    >>
    >> Since you claim continuously that Linux can't do anything, how can you
    >> do just about everything with PCLinuxOS ?

    >
    > Nice try but I don't claim Linux "can't do anything" to use your words.


    You call it slopware and crapware.



    --
    Rick

  6. Re: Works For Me

    On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 11:00:58 +0700, Kadaitcha Man wrote:

    > "Ignoramus10392" wrote in message
    > news:ZoqdnfeWrYNYd2fanZ2dnUVZ_uyinZ2d@giganews.com ...
    >> On 2008-04-08, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>> On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:24:11 +0700, Kadaitcha Man wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> "The Ghost In The Machine" wrote in
    >>>> message
    >>>> news:aioqc5-qc8.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
    >>>>
    >>>>> Its main sore point for me remains ALSA,
    >>>>> which is (still?) doing some perturbations but generally
    >>>>> works with the simpler stuff.
    >>>>
    >>>> When did ALSA not give any trouble?
    >>>>
    >>>>> "Linux" = "Ubuntu" for many, which annoys me.
    >>>>
    >>>> That isn't necessarily a bad thing.
    >>>>
    >>>> "Linux" = "Ubuntu" for many, that is, not annoying you.
    >>>>
    >>>>> However,
    >>>>> it does help adoption
    >>>>
    >>>> That's the point, right there.
    >>>>
    >>>>> Of course Moshe is a little odd anyway; I have no idea as
    >>>>> to his position on Vista but must conclude that he thinks
    >>>>> that it is far more polished than Linux distros such as
    >>>>> Ubuntu, despite many claims to the contrary.
    >>>>
    >>>> ALL HAIL MICROSOFT WINDOWS VISTA!!! FOR IT SHALL GREATLY BOOST THE LINUX
    >>>> DESKTOP SHARE!!!1!!!
    >>>
    >>> For the record, I have stated many times that I do not like Vista.
    >>> I think Vista stinks in fact and see no reason for people to move from XP
    >>> to Vista.

    >>
    >> Based on my 5 minutes of experience with Vista, it has one positive,
    >> which is a security model based around a concept similar to graphical
    >> sudo. It is an improvement over XP.

    >
    > If you had spent ten minutes on Vista, then rather than saying this:
    >
    >> Everything else is a total nightmare.

    >
    > You would say this:
    >
    >> Everything is a total nightmare.

    >
    > It is only an improvement in terms of alerting the user to potential risk.
    > The endless nagging from User Account Control causes many people to want to
    > turn the ****ing thing off.
    >
    > A constant nag that makes you want to wring its neck is not an improvement,
    > rather it has the potential to pose an even greater security risk.
    >
    >> XP got to the point where it was a completely usable OS with some weak
    >> points. It could run cygwin and firefox, server stuff, in fact my work
    >> XP machine that I use (besides Linux computers) looks a lot like a
    >> linux computer, with xterms, firefox, pidgin etc.
    >>
    >> It was definitely not as robust as Linux (based on my experience which
    >> I can detail), but it worked if not loaded too hard.
    >>
    >> Then along came Vista, which seems to be no good for anything.

    >
    > I disagree. Vista is an excellent product for hurling ridicule at.


    Agreed, Vista is a complete train wreck IMHO.

    However if Linux can't manage to pick up some decent desktop market share
    at Vista's expense, then Linux has some serious issues
    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  7. Re: Works For Me

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Kadaitcha Man

    wrote
    on Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:24:11 +0700
    <1pbags.cc5.19.1@news.alt.net>:
    > "The Ghost In The Machine" wrote in message
    > news:aioqc5-qc8.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
    >
    >> Its main sore point for me remains ALSA,
    >> which is (still?) doing some perturbations but generally
    >> works with the simpler stuff.

    >
    > When did ALSA not give any trouble?


    Probably when it was OSS. ;-)

    >
    >> "Linux" = "Ubuntu" for many, which annoys me.

    >
    > That isn't necessarily a bad thing.
    >
    > "Linux" = "Ubuntu" for many, that is, not annoying you.
    >
    >> However,
    >> it does help adoption

    >
    > That's the point, right there.
    >
    >> Of course Moshe is a little odd anyway; I have no idea as
    >> to his position on Vista but must conclude that he thinks
    >> that it is far more polished than Linux distros such as
    >> Ubuntu, despite many claims to the contrary.

    >
    > ALL HAIL MICROSOFT WINDOWS VISTA!!! FOR IT SHALL GREATLY BOOST THE LINUX
    > DESKTOP SHARE!!!1!!!
    >


    I wouldn't bet the farm on that. Remember the Amiga!
    It was a very (for its time) capable machine, with an
    integrated video/audio system, very phenomenal performance,
    and a microprocessor (the 68000) that actually had a decent
    architecture, mostly orthogonal register set, and a 32-bit
    address space (though only 24 bits were actually used at
    the time of the 68000's inception).

    It got beaten out by 286s and 386s, with better video
    resolution, if poorer animation capabilities. At least
    the x86 series now allows a program to use %EAX as an
    index register -- but it took awhile.

    If Microsoft plays its cards right (and we futz it up),
    Windows may very well win this round, even with the losing
    hand that is Microsoft Windows Vista Slopware Edition(tm).

    After all, nobody cares. The general idea is for a
    computer to do something, not argue about whether it's
    int $0x80 or INT 21H underneath the hood, where no one
    looks anyway until it explodes while turning left, and
    even then most people will simply push it into the shop,
    where dedicated Windows Experts(tm) will Make Everything
    Right(tm). (This after using the three-fingered salute,
    which might activate the starter and straighten what's
    left of the wheels, but wno't reassemble the engine.)

    Linux is an excellent turbine, but without a key-turned
    starter switch how can anyone hope to get where they're
    going?

    We'll see how Windows Vista does on the new crop of mobiles.
    I'm assuming it's under development even as we speak. (Of
    course there's Symbian and Android ahead of it -- but then
    Unix and CP/M were ahead of DOS/Windows, too.)

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Windows Vista. It'll Fix Everything(tm).

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  8. Re: Works For Me

    Rick wrote:
    > On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 23:08:48 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >
    >> On 07 Apr 2008 21:00:18 GMT, DanS wrote:
    >>
    >>> Moshe Goldfarb wrote in
    >>> news:zvfge1ih541n.dz2p4ymhalrp$.dlg@40tude.net:
    >>>
    >>>>> So, what kind of linux do you run? What do you do with it?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> i
    >>>> I run 2 systems with PCLinuxOS.
    >>>> One is the family PC and the other is my test system.
    >>>>
    >>>> The family PC is used for just about everything.
    >>> (Ding! Ding! Ding!)
    >>>
    >>> Another hypocritical statement by you.
    >>>
    >>> Since you claim continuously that Linux can't do anything, how can you
    >>> do just about everything with PCLinuxOS ?

    >> Nice try but I don't claim Linux "can't do anything" to use your words.

    >
    > You call it slopware and crapware.


    Both of those have agricultural applications...

  9. Re: Works For Me (but possibly not for you)

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Moshe Goldfarb

    wrote
    on Tue, 8 Apr 2008 11:22:34 -0400
    <1fhnmybzm2m1m.1sui7q9bz404o.dlg@40tude.net>:
    > On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 11:00:58 +0700, Kadaitcha Man wrote:
    >
    >> "Ignoramus10392" wrote in message
    >> news:ZoqdnfeWrYNYd2fanZ2dnUVZ_uyinZ2d@giganews.com ...
    >>> On 2008-04-08, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>>> On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:24:11 +0700, Kadaitcha Man wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> "The Ghost In The Machine" wrote in
    >>>>> message
    >>>>> news:aioqc5-qc8.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Its main sore point for me remains ALSA,
    >>>>>> which is (still?) doing some perturbations but generally
    >>>>>> works with the simpler stuff.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> When did ALSA not give any trouble?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> "Linux" = "Ubuntu" for many, which annoys me.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> That isn't necessarily a bad thing.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> "Linux" = "Ubuntu" for many, that is, not annoying you.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> However,
    >>>>>> it does help adoption
    >>>>>
    >>>>> That's the point, right there.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Of course Moshe is a little odd anyway; I have no idea as
    >>>>>> to his position on Vista but must conclude that he thinks
    >>>>>> that it is far more polished than Linux distros such as
    >>>>>> Ubuntu, despite many claims to the contrary.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> ALL HAIL MICROSOFT WINDOWS VISTA!!! FOR IT SHALL GREATLY BOOST THE LINUX
    >>>>> DESKTOP SHARE!!!1!!!
    >>>>
    >>>> For the record, I have stated many times that I do not like Vista.
    >>>> I think Vista stinks in fact and see no reason for people to move from XP
    >>>> to Vista.
    >>>
    >>> Based on my 5 minutes of experience with Vista, it has one positive,
    >>> which is a security model based around a concept similar to graphical
    >>> sudo. It is an improvement over XP.

    >>
    >> If you had spent ten minutes on Vista, then rather than saying this:
    >>
    >>> Everything else is a total nightmare.

    >>
    >> You would say this:
    >>
    >>> Everything is a total nightmare.

    >>
    >> It is only an improvement in terms of alerting the user to potential risk.
    >> The endless nagging from User Account Control causes many people to want to
    >> turn the ****ing thing off.
    >>
    >> A constant nag that makes you want to wring its neck is not an improvement,
    >> rather it has the potential to pose an even greater security risk.
    >>
    >>> XP got to the point where it was a completely usable OS with some weak
    >>> points. It could run cygwin and firefox, server stuff, in fact my work
    >>> XP machine that I use (besides Linux computers) looks a lot like a
    >>> linux computer, with xterms, firefox, pidgin etc.
    >>>
    >>> It was definitely not as robust as Linux (based on my experience which
    >>> I can detail), but it worked if not loaded too hard.
    >>>
    >>> Then along came Vista, which seems to be no good for anything.

    >>
    >> I disagree. Vista is an excellent product for hurling ridicule at.

    >
    > Agreed, Vista is a complete train wreck IMHO.
    >
    > However if Linux can't manage to pick up some decent desktop market share
    > at Vista's expense, then Linux has some serious issues


    Linux has some serious issues.

    [1] It's not Windows. It can't be Windows. There's no
    way it can be Windows. It's different from Windows.
    "Devil we know" versus "angel we don't"; that angel
    may be a devil in white clothing (although in this case,
    it's not...but how does Joe Public know that without going
    through an evaluation process?).

    Vista might have given Linux an opening, since the
    friendly, comfortable devil is now mutating into something
    people don't like (mostly because it grew a fair number of
    warts, apparently, having been rushed from the depths of
    Hell, erm, Redmond, to store shelves and user's machines)
    -- but it's not a big opening.

    And then there's OSX, which is also angling for those
    disaffected users, and to some extent succeeding.

    [2] It's not quite Guified enough. Personally, I like
    command lines, as long as there's a little documentation to
    go with them; even 'utility -help' is better than nothing.
    But good GUIs are self-documenting, to a point; the menus
    in particular enumerate the tool's capabilities. Forms
    indicate what input a capability needs. Dialogs might
    indicate exceptional conditions or reports.

    (This is not to say Windows' GUI system, which is primarily
    position-based internally, is all that good. But see
    [1]. To be fair, KDE and Gnome are continually being
    improved by a phalanx of programmers out there. Go to it,
    all of you [those still reading this newsgroup thread],
    and good luck.)

    [3] It's hampered by Unix traditions. In a way, that can
    be a good thing, in a way, it's not. Why /etc/passwd?
    Why not someplace more logical? Heaven help someone trying
    to explain /var/tmp as opposed to /Temporary or just having
    open, unnamed files. (DomainOS in particular made that
    extremely simple. mktemp() is a useful workaround, and
    one can set up and mount a scratch filesystem in memory.
    It's not quite the same.)

    PAM is an interesting workaround/hack, but suffers from its
    own arcanities, serving as it does between Unix the old,
    and Linux the new. While PAM is a very flexible package
    (one could conceivably remove /etc/passwd entirely and
    replace it by a remote PostgreSQL database, for example),
    I would be hard-pressed to explain it to someone who's
    never had to deal with a login system before. (Not that
    Windows' glop is much more meaningful to me -- but at
    least with PAM and /etc/passwd I can look at the source.)

    And then there's terminfo. If /etc/passwd is bad,
    /etc/terminfo/* is far worse, though it serves a useful
    purpose to those of us still in possession of such things
    as ASR-33 teletypes, Fox terminals, and DEC VT-52 and
    VT-100 units. Most of the rest of us just click on an icon
    and pull down the menu, nowadays; the world has moved on.
    Linux is not being (and probably doesn't really need to
    be) horribly innovative in this area -- though both KDE
    and Gnome do the actual GUI part very competently, and
    ncurses tools have a nice light footprint, for those who
    don't need all of that graphics glop.

    (A note on my system: I have ansi, dumb, linux, rxvt,
    screen, sun, several DEC vt flavors, and several xterm
    flavors. That's it. There's probably an install kit
    that adds asr33 teletypes and fox terminals, but if so,
    I'd have to find it -- and since I don't have one, well...)

    [4] It's arcane in spots that it might not need to be,
    because of Unix roots. Why does one need to be superuser
    to mount? (Workarounds such as supermount are available.)
    Why can't one simply read a floppy or thumbstick directly?

    (There is an answer to this question, which involves
    surety of the data format; one calls open() on the file
    /user/someone/blah.txt as opposed to reading offset 0x102
    from block 0x39201, then using the longword there to locate
    the next block or something. For its part Windows also
    has a file system, implemented somewhere in its .DLLs.
    I don't know precisely where, but something has to
    implement CreateFile(). Again, see [1].)

    [5] Software installation on Windows is simple; just
    click on an .EXE or .BAT file on one's desktop, and one's
    instantly infected -- erm, I mean, installed. (To be fair,
    there should be a wrapper script capability somewhere
    in Nautilus or Konqueror, and it'll prompt you for the
    superuser password. That's about as easy as things can
    get on Linux -- and I for one wouldn't need that so I'm
    not about to go look for it.)

    [6] Software installation on Linux is further hampered by
    [1]; while some workarounds are available (www.winehq.org,
    VmWare or QEMU, dualbooting), the Linux user can't simply
    download something from, say, tucows, double-click on
    it, and expect it to work. (To be fair, it's getting
    better, and a properly set-up WinE environment is quite
    interesting.)

    [7] How many people can read C, C++, Python, and Java?
    How many people can type into Microsoft Word?[*]
    Source is a specification that a fair number can read,
    but not everybody -- the same could be said for English,
    Chinese, or Swahili, admittedly -- and I wouldn't call
    it "easy to use" if I had to read the source to figure
    it out.

    Granted, OpenOffice, koffice, kate, scribus, and even
    good old gedit exist, as well as a plethora of vi and
    emacs clones for those so inclined. (I'm a vim user,
    personally.) But see, again, [1]. Everyone knows
    (or thinks they know) Word; not nearly as many know
    OpenOffice's oowriter, though I for one think the latter is
    a better tool. Ditto for PowerPoint and Excel (ooimpress
    and oocalc).

    [8] Do people really want to have to choose? If one
    is faced with too much choice, I for one would anticipate
    a "mental freeze-out" (to borrow a term from
    Doctor Asimov [+]), which fortunately is easily resolved
    by the devil everyone knows (see [1], yet again).

    I don't say Windows is good, or Linux is bad -- in fact,
    I'd say the reverse is true. But we didn't get into
    this situation overnight; Windows has had many many years
    to get into the "default" position. People just use it
    without thinking.

    It'll take many more years to unseat it, absent something
    really screwy happening -- even screwier than Vista,
    in fact, bad as it is (prior to SP1).
    [*] as opposed to how many people can actually write
    a coherent sentence. Toddlers in particular can
    hit the keyboard competently enough, if Mom or Dad
    opens Word first for them -- but don't expect much
    beyond a meaningless character jumble therefrom,
    at least not until he learns his first sentences.

    [+] _The Robots of Dawn_, ISBN-13 978-0553299496,
    1994-03-01 (according to amazon.com).

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Linux. Because vaporware only goes so far.

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  10. Re: Works For Me (but possibly not for you)

    The Ghost In The Machine wrote in
    news:iulsc5-jcj.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net:

    > I don't say Windows is good, or Linux is bad -- in fact,
    > I'd say the reverse is true. But we didn't get into
    > this situation overnight; Windows has had many many years
    > to get into the "default" position. People just use it
    > without thinking.
    >
    > It'll take many more years to unseat it, absent something
    > really screwy happening -- even screwier than Vista,
    > in fact, bad as it is (prior to SP1).


    My automotive analogy.....

    It took Toyota over 40 years to overtake GM as the number one selling car
    in the USA.

    Nothing 'screwy' about it either.....it just took that long.

  11. Re: Works For Me (but possibly not for you)

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, DanS

    wrote
    on 08 Apr 2008 18:45:57 GMT
    :
    > The Ghost In The Machine wrote in
    > news:iulsc5-jcj.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net:
    >
    >> I don't say Windows is good, or Linux is bad -- in fact,
    >> I'd say the reverse is true. But we didn't get into
    >> this situation overnight; Windows has had many many years
    >> to get into the "default" position. People just use it
    >> without thinking.
    >>
    >> It'll take many more years to unseat it, absent something
    >> really screwy happening -- even screwier than Vista,
    >> in fact, bad as it is (prior to SP1).

    >
    > My automotive analogy.....
    >
    > It took Toyota over 40 years to overtake GM as the number one selling car
    > in the USA.
    >
    > Nothing 'screwy' about it either.....it just took that long.


    An interesting datum, that. Well, absent more information
    perhaps we can proclaim 2031 as the Year Of Linux, then,
    as that's 40 years since Win3.1's ascendancy.

    Yuck. Not sure I'm patient enough to wait that long. ;-)

    To be sure, GM has an interesting history, of arrogance,
    not following the market, general incompetence, etc.;
    Microsoft appears to be following a generally similar
    pattern, though I'm not sure how the two timelines
    crosscorrelate.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    /dev/brain: Permission denied

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  12. Re: Works For Me

    "The Ghost In The Machine" wrote in message
    news:ahgsc5-v3i.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Kadaitcha Man
    >
    > wrote
    > on Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:24:11 +0700
    > <1pbags.cc5.19.1@news.alt.net>:
    >> "The Ghost In The Machine" wrote in
    >> message
    >> news:aioqc5-qc8.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
    >>
    >>> Its main sore point for me remains ALSA,
    >>> which is (still?) doing some perturbations but generally
    >>> works with the simpler stuff.

    >>
    >> When did ALSA not give any trouble?

    >
    > Probably when it was OSS. ;-)
    >
    >>
    >>> "Linux" = "Ubuntu" for many, which annoys me.

    >>
    >> That isn't necessarily a bad thing.
    >>
    >> "Linux" = "Ubuntu" for many, that is, not annoying you.
    >>
    >>> However,
    >>> it does help adoption

    >>
    >> That's the point, right there.
    >>
    >>> Of course Moshe is a little odd anyway; I have no idea as
    >>> to his position on Vista but must conclude that he thinks
    >>> that it is far more polished than Linux distros such as
    >>> Ubuntu, despite many claims to the contrary.

    >>
    >> ALL HAIL MICROSOFT WINDOWS VISTA!!! FOR IT SHALL GREATLY BOOST THE LINUX
    >> DESKTOP SHARE!!!1!!!
    >>

    >
    > I wouldn't bet the farm on...


    a troll

    > If Microsoft plays its cards right (and we futz it up),
    > Windows may very well win this round, even with the losing
    > hand that is Microsoft Windows Vista Slopware Edition(tm).


    Slopware. Good description.

    > After all, nobody cares. The general idea is for a
    > computer to do something, not argue about whether it's
    > int $0x80 or INT 21H underneath the hood, where no one
    > looks anyway until it explodes while turning left, and
    > even then most people will simply push it into the shop,
    > where dedicated Windows Experts(tm) will Make Everything
    > Right(tm). (This after using the three-fingered salute,
    > which might activate the starter and straighten what's
    > left of the wheels, but wno't reassemble the engine.)
    >
    > Linux is an excellent turbine, but without a key-turned
    > starter switch how can anyone hope to get where they're
    > going?
    >
    > We'll see how Windows Vista does on the new crop of mobiles.
    > I'm assuming it's under development even as we speak. (Of
    > course there's Symbian and Android ahead of it -- but then
    > Unix and CP/M were ahead of DOS/Windows, too.)


    The key for Linux is to crack the educational institution and corporate
    desktop market. The rest follows.

    --
    PT.IndoSat Kupang Nusa Tenggara Timur Indonesia



  13. Re: Works For Me

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Kadaitcha Man

    wrote
    on Wed, 9 Apr 2008 07:13:45 +0700
    <1pdn8e.gt3.19.1@news.alt.net>:
    > "The Ghost In The Machine" wrote in message
    > news:ahgsc5-v3i.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
    >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Kadaitcha Man
    >>
    >> wrote
    >> on Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:24:11 +0700
    >> <1pbags.cc5.19.1@news.alt.net>:
    >>> "The Ghost In The Machine" wrote in
    >>> message
    >>> news:aioqc5-qc8.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
    >>>
    >>>> Its main sore point for me remains ALSA,
    >>>> which is (still?) doing some perturbations but generally
    >>>> works with the simpler stuff.
    >>>
    >>> When did ALSA not give any trouble?

    >>
    >> Probably when it was OSS. ;-)
    >>
    >>>
    >>>> "Linux" = "Ubuntu" for many, which annoys me.
    >>>
    >>> That isn't necessarily a bad thing.
    >>>
    >>> "Linux" = "Ubuntu" for many, that is, not annoying you.
    >>>
    >>>> However,
    >>>> it does help adoption
    >>>
    >>> That's the point, right there.
    >>>
    >>>> Of course Moshe is a little odd anyway; I have no idea as
    >>>> to his position on Vista but must conclude that he thinks
    >>>> that it is far more polished than Linux distros such as
    >>>> Ubuntu, despite many claims to the contrary.
    >>>
    >>> ALL HAIL MICROSOFT WINDOWS VISTA!!! FOR IT SHALL GREATLY BOOST THE LINUX
    >>> DESKTOP SHARE!!!1!!!
    >>>

    >>
    >> I wouldn't bet the farm on...

    >
    > a troll
    >
    >> If Microsoft plays its cards right (and we futz it up),
    >> Windows may very well win this round, even with the losing
    >> hand that is Microsoft Windows Vista Slopware Edition(tm).

    >
    > Slopware. Good description.


    Not original by any means. ;-)

    >
    >> After all, nobody cares. The general idea is for a
    >> computer to do something, not argue about whether it's
    >> int $0x80 or INT 21H underneath the hood, where no one
    >> looks anyway until it explodes while turning left, and
    >> even then most people will simply push it into the shop,
    >> where dedicated Windows Experts(tm) will Make Everything
    >> Right(tm). (This after using the three-fingered salute,
    >> which might activate the starter and straighten what's
    >> left of the wheels, but wno't reassemble the engine.)
    >>
    >> Linux is an excellent turbine, but without a key-turned
    >> starter switch how can anyone hope to get where they're
    >> going?
    >>
    >> We'll see how Windows Vista does on the new crop of mobiles.
    >> I'm assuming it's under development even as we speak. (Of
    >> course there's Symbian and Android ahead of it -- but then
    >> Unix and CP/M were ahead of DOS/Windows, too.)

    >
    > The key for Linux is to crack the educational institution and corporate
    > desktop market. The rest follows.
    >


    Apple tried that, and did get some headway. But I think the
    corporate desktop market is probably the preferential one;
    IBM after all had it sewn up in the mid-80's -- if one had
    a computer as opposed to a dumb glasstube terminal.

    It took 40 years for Toyota to wrest GM's dominance away,
    as someone else pointed out. I hope we don't have to wait
    quite that long, but do wonder.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    New Technology? Not There. No Thanks.

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  14. Re: Works For Me (but possibly not for you)

    The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

    > [8] Do people really want to have to choose? If one


    Then why are there so many car manufacturers? Why are there so many
    manufacturers of audio and video equipment?

    In almost every area, there is choice. Only in the (by some people
    regarded as being) the most important area nowadays, there is little choice.
    I always remember the wisdom of the Cree:

    "Only when the last server has been installed with a closed-source
    operating system, when the last open protocol has been replaced by a
    proprietary one, when the last openly available document has been
    converted to a "standard" format, will you find out that not everyone is
    a benefactor"

    --
    These are my personal views and not those of Fujitsu Siemens Computers!
    Josef Möllers (Pinguinpfleger bei FSC)
    If failure had no penalty success would not be a prize (T. Pratchett)
    Company Details: http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/imprint.html

  15. Re: Works For Me (but possibly not for you)

    Josef Moellers writes:

    > The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >
    >> [8] Do people really want to have to choose? If one

    >
    > Then why are there so many car manufacturers? Why are there so many
    > manufacturers of audio and video equipment?


    Err, because all of them wish to compete by SELLING products. And all
    these products must pass rigorous safety standards before they are
    unleashed on Joe Public.

    Thanks for making our point.

    Imagine if some moron like Roy were to nail together a go-kart and
    sell it as a family saloon to someone equally as stupid as Mark
    Kent. There would be a hell of a tailback on the motorway as Mark drives
    Mrs Mark and his smelly kids to Skegness for their yearly holiday.

  16. Re: Works For Me (but possibly not for you)

    Hadron wrote:
    > Josef Moellers writes:
    >
    >> The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >>
    >>> [8] Do people really want to have to choose? If one

    >> Then why are there so many car manufacturers? Why are there so many
    >> manufacturers of audio and video equipment?

    >
    > Err, because all of them wish to compete by SELLING products. And all
    > these products must pass rigorous safety standards before they are
    > unleashed on Joe Public.
    >
    > Thanks for making our point.
    >
    > Imagine if some moron like Roy were to nail together a go-kart and
    > sell it as a family saloon to someone equally as stupid as Mark
    > Kent. There would be a hell of a tailback on the motorway as Mark drives
    > Mrs Mark and his smelly kids to Skegness for their yearly holiday.



    But those standards are open and applied to all the same. I can take
    anyone in my car that I want. Change anything in my car that I want.
    and every time I fill it up I don't have to prove that it is legal.
    If someone wants to take it away because they say I stole it they have
    to prove it not the other way around. As long as I follow the rules
    (standards) of the road no one can stop me from using them.
    Then again if someone wants to sell an inferior product it will fail.
    caver1

  17. Re: Works For Me (but possibly not for you)

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Josef Moellers

    wrote
    on Wed, 09 Apr 2008 10:01:37 +0200
    :
    > The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >
    >> [8] Do people really want to have to choose? If one

    >
    > Then why are there so many car manufacturers?


    Why indeed? Well outside this newsgroup but for the
    longest time we only had the Big Three in the US: GM,
    Ford, and Chrysler. The incursion of Toyota, Honda,
    Datsun/Nissan, and others has given us additional choices
    now, so it is possible to break open an ogliopoly...it
    just took 40 years.

    > Why are there so many
    > manufacturers of audio and video equipment?
    >
    > In almost every area, there is choice. Only in the
    > (by some people regarded as being) the most important
    > area nowadays, there is little choice.
    > I always remember the wisdom of the Cree:
    >
    > "Only when the last server has been installed with a closed-source
    > operating system, when the last open protocol has been replaced by a
    > proprietary one, when the last openly available document has been
    > converted to a "standard" format, will you find out that not everyone is
    > a benefactor"
    >


    It gets complicated...but of course one tradeoff for freedom is
    convenience.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Conventional memory has to be one of the most UNconventional
    architectures I've seen in a computer system.

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  18. Re: Works For Me (but possibly not for you)

    On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 17:33:50 +0200, Hadron wrote:

    > Josef Moellers writes:
    >
    >> The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >>
    >>> [8] Do people really want to have to choose? If one

    >>
    >> Then why are there so many car manufacturers? Why are there so many
    >> manufacturers of audio and video equipment?

    >
    > Err, because all of them wish to compete by SELLING products. And all
    > these products must pass rigorous safety standards before they are
    > unleashed on Joe Public.
    >
    > Thanks for making our point.
    >
    > Imagine if some moron like Roy were to nail together a go-kart and
    > sell it as a family saloon to someone equally as stupid as Mark
    > Kent. There would be a hell of a tailback on the motorway as Mark drives
    > Mrs Mark and his smelly kids to Skegness for their yearly holiday.


    Hahaha!!
    Good one!
    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  19. Re: Works For Me (but possibly not for you)

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Hadron

    wrote
    on Wed, 09 Apr 2008 17:33:50 +0200
    :
    > Josef Moellers writes:
    >
    >> The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >>
    >>> [8] Do people really want to have to choose? If one

    >>
    >> Then why are there so many car manufacturers? Why are there so many
    >> manufacturers of audio and video equipment?

    >
    > Err, because all of them wish to compete by SELLING products. And all
    > these products must pass rigorous safety standards before they are
    > unleashed on Joe Public.
    >
    > Thanks for making our point.
    >
    > Imagine if some moron like Roy were to nail together a go-kart and
    > sell it as a family saloon to someone equally as stupid as Mark
    > Kent. There would be a hell of a tailback on the motorway as Mark drives
    > Mrs Mark and his smelly kids to Skegness for their yearly holiday.


    If Linux is a go-kart, it's a very complicated one, and
    follows standards laid down a fair time ago. fork() in
    particular has been around since before SVr4 and 4.3 BSD
    (the earliest standards mentioned in the fork(2) manpage);
    I was using it (if only indirectly in my college daze;
    I was pretty young back then) on System 6 in the 1980's.

    But most people just want to run their apps, which was *my* point.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Conventional memory has to be one of the most UNconventional
    architectures I've seen in a computer system.

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  20. Re: Works For Me (but possibly not for you)

    On 2008-04-09, Hadron wrote:
    > Josef Moellers writes:
    >
    >> The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >>
    >>> [8] Do people really want to have to choose? If one

    >>
    >> Then why are there so many car manufacturers? Why are there so many
    >> manufacturers of audio and video equipment?

    >
    > Err, because all of them wish to compete by SELLING products. And all
    > these products must pass rigorous safety standards before they are
    > unleashed on Joe Public.


    And why exactly does THAT improve diversity in the market?

    If anything it should dramatically depress diversity in the market.

    >
    > Thanks for making our point.
    >
    > Imagine if some moron like Roy were to nail together a go-kart and
    > sell it as a family saloon to someone equally as stupid as Mark


    Here is another non-sequitor. If people were really interested
    in avoiding the "go kart" experience, Microsoft would have been put
    out of it's misery by the late 80's.

    OTOH, there are kit cars and people are free to modify existing
    ones to their liking. There is even a very healty secondary market
    in supplying these sorts of tinkers.

    > Kent. There would be a hell of a tailback on the motorway as Mark drives
    > Mrs Mark and his smelly kids to Skegness for their yearly holiday.



    --

    iTunes is not progressive. It's a throwback. |||
    / | \

    Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.usenet.com

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast