Re: Yet Another Dud Linux Distribution.
Hadron wrote:[color=blue]
> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> writes:
>[color=green]
>> "Hadron" <hadronquark@googlemail.com> stated in post
>> ftb22k$e25$4@registered.motzarella.org on 4/6/08 10:42 AM:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> writes:
>>>
>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>> "Rick" <none@nomail.com> stated in post
>>>>> [email]SbOdnaFSgI5DRWXanZ2dnUVZ_ojinZ2d@supernews.com[/email] on 4/6/08 7:06 AM:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 06 Apr 2008 15:29:39 +0200, Hadron wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [email]spike1@freenet.co.uk[/email] writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hadron <hadronquark@googlemail.com> did eloquently scribble:
>>>>>>>>> No I'm not. Whatever gave you that idea? I am saying you do not build
>>>>>>>>> an entire distro around some l33t hyck.
>>>>>>>> And how do you STOP him from doing that if he so wishes if you can't
>>>>>>>> ban the modification of GPL software?
>>>>>>> When will you get it through your thick head that we KNOW we can not ban
>>>>>>> this stuff. This is WHY its all such a mess. I also agree that "banning"
>>>>>>> per se is not a good thing. However, and I know you will struggle with
>>>>>>> this, it doesn't make it a good thing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's like talking to a brick wall. It's not all about what we may or may
>>>>>>> not do. It's about whether it's a good idea or not for the general good
>>>>>>> of Linux and its advancement.
>>>>>> When will you get it through your thick skull? ... killing distors won't
>>>>>> guarantee any more resources for any other distro?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> But if distro developers were to work together they could combine their
>>>>> strengths... such as the strength of PCLOS's organization and visual design
>>>>> with Ubuntu's less-fractured UI. Right now there is no distro that offers
>>>>> both...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not everyone wants both.
>>>> caver1
>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being
>>> suggested.
>>>
>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT
>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not
>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.[/color]
>> COLA Linux Advocates. :)[/color]
>
> The mind boggles as to "caver1"s mindset where he thinks it better to
> keep a broken, fractured distro because a minority "might" want
> it. Huh?!?!?!? I mean, I have heard some stupid things in my life but
> this kind of mental thought process leaves me wondering just who these
> people are.[/color]
As I stated before Hardon. What's youyr favorite?
caver1
Re: Yet Another Dud Linux Distribution.
Snit wrote:[color=blue]
> "Hadron" <hadronquark@googlemail.com> stated in post
> ftbdeo$2ro$2@registered.motzarella.org on 4/6/08 1:56 PM:
>[color=green]
>> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> writes:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> "Hadron" <hadronquark@googlemail.com> stated in post
>>> ftb22k$e25$4@registered.motzarella.org on 4/6/08 10:42 AM:
>>>
>>>> caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>>> "Rick" <none@nomail.com> stated in post
>>>>>> [email]SbOdnaFSgI5DRWXanZ2dnUVZ_ojinZ2d@supernews.com[/email] on 4/6/08 7:06 AM:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 06 Apr 2008 15:29:39 +0200, Hadron wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [email]spike1@freenet.co.uk[/email] writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hadron <hadronquark@googlemail.com> did eloquently scribble:
>>>>>>>>>> No I'm not. Whatever gave you that idea? I am saying you do not build
>>>>>>>>>> an entire distro around some l33t hyck.
>>>>>>>>> And how do you STOP him from doing that if he so wishes if you can't
>>>>>>>>> ban the modification of GPL software?
>>>>>>>> When will you get it through your thick head that we KNOW we can not ban
>>>>>>>> this stuff. This is WHY its all such a mess. I also agree that "banning"
>>>>>>>> per se is not a good thing. However, and I know you will struggle with
>>>>>>>> this, it doesn't make it a good thing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's like talking to a brick wall. It's not all about what we may or may
>>>>>>>> not do. It's about whether it's a good idea or not for the general good
>>>>>>>> of Linux and its advancement.
>>>>>>> When will you get it through your thick skull? ... killing distors won't
>>>>>>> guarantee any more resources for any other distro?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> But if distro developers were to work together they could combine their
>>>>>> strengths... such as the strength of PCLOS's organization and visual
>>>>>> design
>>>>>> with Ubuntu's less-fractured UI. Right now there is no distro that offers
>>>>>> both...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not everyone wants both.
>>>>> caver1
>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being
>>>> suggested.
>>>>
>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT
>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not
>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.
>>> COLA Linux Advocates. :)[/color]
>> The mind boggles as to "caver1"s mindset where he thinks it better to
>> keep a broken, fractured distro because a minority "might" want
>> it. Huh?!?!?!? I mean, I have heard some stupid things in my life but
>> this kind of mental thought process leaves me wondering just who these
>> people are.[/color]
>
> The debate is not even about *how* to organize... just *if* it is better to
> be organized in a distro, or have well done organization.
>[/color]
Okay Hardon tell me where Linux is Broken.
caver1
Re: Yet Another Dud Linux Distribution.
"caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
47f946a2$0$16662$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 2:54 PM:
[color=blue]
> Snit wrote:[color=green]
>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
>> 47f92078$0$22824$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 12:11 PM:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Hadron wrote:
>>>> caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Hadron wrote:
>>>>>> caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Rick" <none@nomail.com> stated in post
>>>>>>>> [email]SbOdnaFSgI5DRWXanZ2dnUVZ_ojinZ2d@supernews.com[/email] on 4/6/08 7:06 AM:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 06 Apr 2008 15:29:39 +0200, Hadron wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> [email]spike1@freenet.co.uk[/email] writes:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hadron <hadronquark@googlemail.com> did eloquently scribble:
>>>>>>>>>>>> No I'm not. Whatever gave you that idea? I am saying you do not
>>>>>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>>>>>> an entire distro around some l33t hyck.
>>>>>>>>>>> And how do you STOP him from doing that if he so wishes if you can't
>>>>>>>>>>> ban the modification of GPL software?
>>>>>>>>>> When will you get it through your thick head that we KNOW we can not
>>>>>>>>>> ban
>>>>>>>>>> this stuff. This is WHY its all such a mess. I also agree that
>>>>>>>>>> "banning"
>>>>>>>>>> per se is not a good thing. However, and I know you will struggle
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> this, it doesn't make it a good thing.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's like talking to a brick wall. It's not all about what we may or
>>>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>>> not do. It's about whether it's a good idea or not for the general
>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>> of Linux and its advancement.
>>>>>>>>> When will you get it through your thick skull? ... killing distors
>>>>>>>>> won't
>>>>>>>>> guarantee any more resources for any other distro?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But if distro developers were to work together they could combine their
>>>>>>>> strengths... such as the strength of PCLOS's organization and visual
>>>>>>>> design
>>>>>>>> with Ubuntu's less-fractured UI. Right now there is no distro that
>>>>>>>> offers
>>>>>>>> both...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not everyone wants both.
>>>>>>> caver1
>>>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being
>>>>>> suggested.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT
>>>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not
>>>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thats where you are wrong. Our society was set up to protect the
>>>>> minority from the majority.
>>>> No it wasn't. It was set up to serve the needs of the
>>>> majority. Minorities have rights of course. And if minorities want to
>>>> have a broken distro good luck to them - there's plenty to choose from.
>>>>
>>>>> Just because YOU want it one way does not make it right.
>>>> Wrong. I want what is best for Linux and majority. And a stable,
>>>> consistent distro is indeed better no matter how crazy your views on
>>>> minorities are.
>>>>
>>>>> Just because the majority want it one way doesn't mean all Have to do
>>>>> it that way.
>>>> See? You are confused. No where did I say the minority can not have it
>>>> another way. But lets aim for the majority.
>>>>
>>>>> What is fartured about Ubuntu?
>>>> No idea. But "fartured" is apt for some distros.
>>>
>>> I'll give you that one I'm not sure about that one either. :0
>>> But being in reply to your "fractured" I think it was easy enough.
>>> Or is that so you can just side step the issue?
>>> I think you need to back to school. Who were the powers of the time?
>>> the monarchy and religion. The US constitution was set up to protect
>>> against each of those. True some thought their ways were better than
>>> others hence they should rule. That is why changes were made.
>>> And don't say well if they worked within the framework of the
>>> Constitution not made another. Software is not law and should never be.
>>> But at the same time it gives everyone the right to try the same thing
>>> over and over if they want as long as they don't steal from, harm, or
>>> stopping anyone else from the same rights.
>>> If Hadron wants to make his own Har, har, Hardly hardon distro thats
>>> fine with everyone here. Just don't think that anyone will use it.
>>> caver1[/color]
>>
>> I think it is a shame that the best answer to how a user can get a distro
>> from a group that understands both organization, look, and consistency is
>> for the user to become an expert in each area *and* an expert in how to put
>> a pro-level Linux distro together and then roll their own.
>>
>> The development efforts of Linux are fractured - so while there are experts
>> in each area (or at least people who show they understand each area well)
>> they are not all working together. This will change: eventually a distro
>> will pull all of those talents together... Ubuntu seems to be trying (though
>> they have big holes in their skill set currently).
>>
>>[/color]
>
>
> As I said it is still improving. Tell us where they are lacking.
> caver1[/color]
From past posts:
PCLOS:
Poorly done menus
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS-menu.pdf>
Poorly done dialogs:
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.pdf>
Poorly done and Inconsistent dialogs:
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS2.pdf>
Mouse pointers that do not do as they say:
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.mov>
Even Ubuntu has its share of quirks - though it is clearly done much better:
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/ubuntu-menu.pdf>
And the more recent one showing copy and paste oddities and weird text
behavior on selection:
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/copy-paste.mov>
It is not like such examples are hard to find - or are not obvious. How
could anyone who has used Linux and either Windows or OS X not have such
things be apparent to them - especially someone who considers themselves
knowledgeable about computers?
--
God made me an atheist - who are you to question his authority?
Re: Yet Another Dud Linux Distribution.
"caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
47f9487a$0$16662$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 3:02 PM:
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>>>>> Not everyone wants both.
>>>>>> caver1
>>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being
>>>>> suggested.
>>>>>
>>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT
>>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not
>>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.
>>>> COLA Linux Advocates. :)
>>> The mind boggles as to "caver1"s mindset where he thinks it better to
>>> keep a broken, fractured distro because a minority "might" want
>>> it. Huh?!?!?!? I mean, I have heard some stupid things in my life but
>>> this kind of mental thought process leaves me wondering just who these
>>> people are.[/color]
>>
>> The debate is not even about *how* to organize... just *if* it is better to
>> be organized in a distro, or have well done organization.[/color]
>
> Okay Hardon tell me where Linux is Broken.
> caver1[/color]
I would love to see your argument as to why organization, attractive looks,
and lack-of-fracturing in the UI would be a bad thing that you would not
want... just seems absurd to me.
--
I know how a jam jar feels...
.... full of jam!
Re: Yet Another Dud Linux Distribution.
Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> writes:
[color=blue]
> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
> 47f9487a$0$16662$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 3:02 PM:
>
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>>>>> Not everyone wants both.
>>>>>>> caver1
>>>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being
>>>>>> suggested.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT
>>>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not
>>>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.
>>>>> COLA Linux Advocates. :)
>>>> The mind boggles as to "caver1"s mindset where he thinks it better to
>>>> keep a broken, fractured distro because a minority "might" want
>>>> it. Huh?!?!?!? I mean, I have heard some stupid things in my life but
>>>> this kind of mental thought process leaves me wondering just who these
>>>> people are.
>>>
>>> The debate is not even about *how* to organize... just *if* it is better to
>>> be organized in a distro, or have well done organization.[/color]
>>
>> Okay Hardon tell me where Linux is Broken.
>> caver1[/color]
>
> I would love to see your argument as to why organization, attractive looks,
> and lack-of-fracturing in the UI would be a bad thing that you would not
> want... just seems absurd to me.[/color]
He is absurd. He must be a nym for someone like wRonG.
He keeps asking me to "prove it" after I have just done so. Weird.
Re: Yet Another Dud Linux Distribution.
"Hadron" <hadronquark@googlemail.com> stated in post
ftc2fr$9cv$5@registered.motzarella.org on 4/6/08 7:55 PM:
[color=blue]
> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> writes:
>[color=green]
>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
>> 47f9487a$0$16662$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 3:02 PM:
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>>>>>>> Not everyone wants both.
>>>>>>>> caver1
>>>>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being
>>>>>>> suggested.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT
>>>>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not
>>>>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.
>>>>>> COLA Linux Advocates. :)
>>>>> The mind boggles as to "caver1"s mindset where he thinks it better to
>>>>> keep a broken, fractured distro because a minority "might" want
>>>>> it. Huh?!?!?!? I mean, I have heard some stupid things in my life but
>>>>> this kind of mental thought process leaves me wondering just who these
>>>>> people are.
>>>>
>>>> The debate is not even about *how* to organize... just *if* it is better to
>>>> be organized in a distro, or have well done organization.
>>>
>>> Okay Hardon tell me where Linux is Broken.
>>> caver1[/color]
>>
>> I would love to see your argument as to why organization, attractive looks,
>> and lack-of-fracturing in the UI would be a bad thing that you would not
>> want... just seems absurd to me.[/color]
>
> He is absurd. He must be a nym for someone like wRonG.
>
> He keeps asking me to "prove it" after I have just done so. Weird.[/color]
Prove it. :)
--
Dear Aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
[url]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1123221217782777472[/url]
Re: Yet Another Dud Linux Distribution.
Snit wrote:[color=blue]
> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
> 47f946a2$0$16662$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 2:54 PM:
>[color=green]
>> Snit wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
>>> 47f92078$0$22824$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 12:11 PM:
>>>
>>>> Hadron wrote:
>>>>> caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hadron wrote:
>>>>>>> caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "Rick" <none@nomail.com> stated in post
>>>>>>>>> [email]SbOdnaFSgI5DRWXanZ2dnUVZ_ojinZ2d@supernews.com[/email] on 4/6/08 7:06 AM:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 06 Apr 2008 15:29:39 +0200, Hadron wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> [email]spike1@freenet.co.uk[/email] writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hadron <hadronquark@googlemail.com> did eloquently scribble:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> No I'm not. Whatever gave you that idea? I am saying you do not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>>>>>>> an entire distro around some l33t hyck.
>>>>>>>>>>>> And how do you STOP him from doing that if he so wishes if you can't
>>>>>>>>>>>> ban the modification of GPL software?
>>>>>>>>>>> When will you get it through your thick head that we KNOW we can not
>>>>>>>>>>> ban
>>>>>>>>>>> this stuff. This is WHY its all such a mess. I also agree that
>>>>>>>>>>> "banning"
>>>>>>>>>>> per se is not a good thing. However, and I know you will struggle
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> this, it doesn't make it a good thing.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's like talking to a brick wall. It's not all about what we may or
>>>>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>>>> not do. It's about whether it's a good idea or not for the general
>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>> of Linux and its advancement.
>>>>>>>>>> When will you get it through your thick skull? ... killing distors
>>>>>>>>>> won't
>>>>>>>>>> guarantee any more resources for any other distro?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But if distro developers were to work together they could combine their
>>>>>>>>> strengths... such as the strength of PCLOS's organization and visual
>>>>>>>>> design
>>>>>>>>> with Ubuntu's less-fractured UI. Right now there is no distro that
>>>>>>>>> offers
>>>>>>>>> both...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not everyone wants both.
>>>>>>>> caver1
>>>>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being
>>>>>>> suggested.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT
>>>>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not
>>>>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.
>>>>>> Thats where you are wrong. Our society was set up to protect the
>>>>>> minority from the majority.
>>>>> No it wasn't. It was set up to serve the needs of the
>>>>> majority. Minorities have rights of course. And if minorities want to
>>>>> have a broken distro good luck to them - there's plenty to choose from.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Just because YOU want it one way does not make it right.
>>>>> Wrong. I want what is best for Linux and majority. And a stable,
>>>>> consistent distro is indeed better no matter how crazy your views on
>>>>> minorities are.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Just because the majority want it one way doesn't mean all Have to do
>>>>>> it that way.
>>>>> See? You are confused. No where did I say the minority can not have it
>>>>> another way. But lets aim for the majority.
>>>>>
>>>>>> What is fartured about Ubuntu?
>>>>> No idea. But "fartured" is apt for some distros.
>>>> I'll give you that one I'm not sure about that one either. :0
>>>> But being in reply to your "fractured" I think it was easy enough.
>>>> Or is that so you can just side step the issue?
>>>> I think you need to back to school. Who were the powers of the time?
>>>> the monarchy and religion. The US constitution was set up to protect
>>>> against each of those. True some thought their ways were better than
>>>> others hence they should rule. That is why changes were made.
>>>> And don't say well if they worked within the framework of the
>>>> Constitution not made another. Software is not law and should never be.
>>>> But at the same time it gives everyone the right to try the same thing
>>>> over and over if they want as long as they don't steal from, harm, or
>>>> stopping anyone else from the same rights.
>>>> If Hadron wants to make his own Har, har, Hardly hardon distro thats
>>>> fine with everyone here. Just don't think that anyone will use it.
>>>> caver1
>>> I think it is a shame that the best answer to how a user can get a distro
>>> from a group that understands both organization, look, and consistency is
>>> for the user to become an expert in each area *and* an expert in how to put
>>> a pro-level Linux distro together and then roll their own.
>>>
>>> The development efforts of Linux are fractured - so while there are experts
>>> in each area (or at least people who show they understand each area well)
>>> they are not all working together. This will change: eventually a distro
>>> will pull all of those talents together... Ubuntu seems to be trying (though
>>> they have big holes in their skill set currently).
>>>
>>>[/color]
>>
>> As I said it is still improving. Tell us where they are lacking.
>> caver1[/color]
>
> From past posts:
>
> PCLOS:
>
> Poorly done menus
> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS-menu.pdf>
>
> Poorly done dialogs:
> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.pdf>
>
> Poorly done and Inconsistent dialogs:
> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS2.pdf>
>
> Mouse pointers that do not do as they say:
> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.mov>[/color]
personally I don't like PcLinuxOS. But it is very popular.
[color=blue]
> Even Ubuntu has its share of quirks - though it is clearly done much better:
>
> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/ubuntu-menu.pdf>[/color]
Okay you have to go to file to quit.
[color=blue]
> And the more recent one showing copy and paste oddities and weird text
> behavior on selection:
>
> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/copy-paste.mov>[/color]
Load glipper problem solved.[color=blue]
> It is not like such examples are hard to find - or are not obvious. How
> could anyone who has used Linux and either Windows or OS X not have such
> things be apparent to them - especially someone who considers themselves
> knowledgeable about computers?
>
>[/color]
Okay now improve them. Instead of telling everyone how crappy it is.
caver1
Re: Yet Another Dud Linux Distribution.
Snit wrote:[color=blue]
> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
> 47f9487a$0$16662$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 3:02 PM:
>
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>>>>> Not everyone wants both.
>>>>>>> caver1
>>>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being
>>>>>> suggested.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT
>>>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not
>>>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.
>>>>> COLA Linux Advocates. :)
>>>> The mind boggles as to "caver1"s mindset where he thinks it better to
>>>> keep a broken, fractured distro because a minority "might" want
>>>> it. Huh?!?!?!? I mean, I have heard some stupid things in my life but
>>>> this kind of mental thought process leaves me wondering just who these
>>>> people are.
>>> The debate is not even about *how* to organize... just *if* it is better to
>>> be organized in a distro, or have well done organization.[/color]
>> Okay Hardon tell me where Linux is Broken.
>> caver1[/color]
>
> I would love to see your argument as to why organization, attractive looks,
> and lack-of-fracturing in the UI would be a bad thing that you would not
> want... just seems absurd to me.
>[/color]
There are several of the Linux distros that have very good organization.
Attractive looks? That's in the eye of the beholder. Personally I think
that Mint is very attractive. Then again when I am Word processing I am
just looking to get it done.
Yes there are problems but they are improving at a rapid pace.
So if you have problems with many of the distros pick one or a dozen and
improve them instead of constantly trying to smear the whole Linux
community because you don't like some of the distros.
yes there are more distros then I will even want to try. But Its their
right to try if they want to.
caver1
Re: Yet Another Dud Linux Distribution.
Hadron wrote:[color=blue]
> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> writes:
>[color=green]
>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
>> 47f9487a$0$16662$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 3:02 PM:
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>>>>>>> Not everyone wants both.
>>>>>>>> caver1
>>>>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being
>>>>>>> suggested.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT
>>>>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not
>>>>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.
>>>>>> COLA Linux Advocates. :)
>>>>> The mind boggles as to "caver1"s mindset where he thinks it better to
>>>>> keep a broken, fractured distro because a minority "might" want
>>>>> it. Huh?!?!?!? I mean, I have heard some stupid things in my life but
>>>>> this kind of mental thought process leaves me wondering just who these
>>>>> people are.
>>>> The debate is not even about *how* to organize... just *if* it is better to
>>>> be organized in a distro, or have well done organization.
>>> Okay Hardon tell me where Linux is Broken.
>>> caver1[/color]
>> I would love to see your argument as to why organization, attractive looks,
>> and lack-of-fracturing in the UI would be a bad thing that you would not
>> want... just seems absurd to me.[/color]
>
> He is absurd. He must be a nym for someone like wRonG.
>
> He keeps asking me to "prove it" after I have just done so. Weird.[/color]
No you have only prove that you want Linux to be in your flavor nothing
else.
When you call me a liar I also say prove it and your come back is "I
already did" or "What are you talking about"
Most of your rants belong in COLA and should stay there.
caver1
Re: Yet Another Dud Linux Distribution.
"caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
47fa195d$0$16691$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 5:53 AM:
[color=blue]
> Snit wrote:[color=green]
>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
>> 47f9487a$0$16662$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 3:02 PM:
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>>>>>>> Not everyone wants both.
>>>>>>>> caver1
>>>>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being
>>>>>>> suggested.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT
>>>>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not
>>>>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.
>>>>>> COLA Linux Advocates. :)
>>>>> The mind boggles as to "caver1"s mindset where he thinks it better to
>>>>> keep a broken, fractured distro because a minority "might" want
>>>>> it. Huh?!?!?!? I mean, I have heard some stupid things in my life but
>>>>> this kind of mental thought process leaves me wondering just who these
>>>>> people are.
>>>> The debate is not even about *how* to organize... just *if* it is better to
>>>> be organized in a distro, or have well done organization.
>>> Okay Hardon tell me where Linux is Broken.
>>> caver1[/color]
>>
>> I would love to see your argument as to why organization, attractive looks,
>> and lack-of-fracturing in the UI would be a bad thing that you would not
>> want... just seems absurd to me.
>>[/color]
>
>
> There are several of the Linux distros that have very good organization.
> Attractive looks? That's in the eye of the beholder. Personally I think
> that Mint is very attractive. Then again when I am Word processing I am
> just looking to get it done.
> Yes there are problems but they are improving at a rapid pace.
> So if you have problems with many of the distros pick one or a dozen and
> improve them instead of constantly trying to smear the whole Linux
> community because you don't like some of the distros.
> yes there are more distros then I will even want to try. But Its their
> right to try if they want to.
> caver1
>[/color]
You are moving goal posts. Before you stated that not everyone wants both
(a decent look and good organization)... now you are saying that it is in
the eye of the beholder (which I agree with - to some extent).
Then you jump back to the idea that if I want to have a distro with common
sense needs: reasoned organization, consistency, a decent look, etc., I
should do the distro dance and when that fails make my own or just improve
on others.
Sounds like you agree with me that, as is, Linux is not really ready for the
general desktop.
--
I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is to try to please
everyone. -- Bill Cosby
Re: Yet Another Dud Linux Distribution.
"caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
47fa177e$0$16692$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 5:45 AM:
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> As I said it is still improving. Tell us where they are lacking.
>>> caver1[/color]
>>
>> From past posts:
>>
>> PCLOS:
>>
>> Poorly done menus
>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS-menu.pdf>
>>
>> Poorly done dialogs:
>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.pdf>
>>
>> Poorly done and Inconsistent dialogs:
>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS2.pdf>
>>
>> Mouse pointers that do not do as they say:
>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.mov>[/color]
>
> personally I don't like PcLinuxOS. But it is very popular.[/color]
Lovely but irrelevant.
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>> Even Ubuntu has its share of quirks - though it is clearly done much better:
>>
>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/ubuntu-menu.pdf>[/color]
>
> Okay you have to go to file to quit.[/color]
For some programs, sure... for others you have to go to File to Exit... and
for others you have to "close window" and for others you do not even go to
File... and what is the hot key to terminate... a bit of a mess, eh?
[color=blue][color=green]
>> And the more recent one showing copy and paste oddities and weird text
>> behavior on selection:
>>
>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/copy-paste.mov>[/color]
>
> Load glipper problem solved.[/color]
So it is not ready as is. And what is "glibber"? I am not familiar with it
[color=blue][color=green]
>> It is not like such examples are hard to find - or are not obvious. How
>> could anyone who has used Linux and either Windows or OS X not have such
>> things be apparent to them - especially someone who considers themselves
>> knowledgeable about computers?[/color][/color]
--
Never stand between a dog and the hydrant. - John Peers
Re: Yet Another Dud Linux Distribution.
Snit wrote:[color=blue]
> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
> 47fa195d$0$16691$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 5:53 AM:
>[color=green]
>> Snit wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
>>> 47f9487a$0$16662$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 3:02 PM:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not everyone wants both.
>>>>>>>>> caver1
>>>>>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being
>>>>>>>> suggested.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT
>>>>>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not
>>>>>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.
>>>>>>> COLA Linux Advocates. :)
>>>>>> The mind boggles as to "caver1"s mindset where he thinks it better to
>>>>>> keep a broken, fractured distro because a minority "might" want
>>>>>> it. Huh?!?!?!? I mean, I have heard some stupid things in my life but
>>>>>> this kind of mental thought process leaves me wondering just who these
>>>>>> people are.
>>>>> The debate is not even about *how* to organize... just *if* it is better to
>>>>> be organized in a distro, or have well done organization.
>>>> Okay Hardon tell me where Linux is Broken.
>>>> caver1
>>> I would love to see your argument as to why organization, attractive looks,
>>> and lack-of-fracturing in the UI would be a bad thing that you would not
>>> want... just seems absurd to me.
>>>[/color]
>>
>> There are several of the Linux distros that have very good organization.
>> Attractive looks? That's in the eye of the beholder. Personally I think
>> that Mint is very attractive. Then again when I am Word processing I am
>> just looking to get it done.
>> Yes there are problems but they are improving at a rapid pace.
>> So if you have problems with many of the distros pick one or a dozen and
>> improve them instead of constantly trying to smear the whole Linux
>> community because you don't like some of the distros.
>> yes there are more distros then I will even want to try. But Its their
>> right to try if they want to.
>> caver1
>>[/color]
> You are moving goal posts. Before you stated that not everyone wants both
> (a decent look and good organization)... now you are saying that it is in
> the eye of the beholder (which I agree with - to some extent).
>
> Then you jump back to the idea that if I want to have a distro with common
> sense needs: reasoned organization, consistency, a decent look, etc., I
> should do the distro dance and when that fails make my own or just improve
> on others.
>
> Sounds like you agree with me that, as is, Linux is not really ready for the
> general desktop.
>
>[/color]
My reply was to Hadron. Yes I believe that some of the distros are ready
for the desktop. That's why I am using Linux.
No goal posts moved. Not everyone wants the looks of Ubuntu. Some hate
it. I think Ubuntu has a good organization, some such as you think not.
And yes looks is in the eye of the beholder.
Your wants are different than someone else's. If you want to do the
dance that's your prerogative. I did not tell you to do it.
If you like whatever distro then use that one, help that one. But don't
complain about Linux in general because you don't like some of the
distros.
Or as you stated above- "I should do the distro dance and when that
fails make my own or just improve on others."
Yes help improve and quit complaining that someone else wants to build
their own to satisfy their needs. You don't have to use theirs so why
complain.
Not everyone agree on what common sense is and from the looks of it I
don't think you use much.
caver1
Re: Yet Another Dud Linux Distribution.
Snit wrote:[color=blue]
> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
> 47fa177e$0$16692$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 5:45 AM:
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>> As I said it is still improving. Tell us where they are lacking.
>>>> caver1
>>> From past posts:
>>>
>>> PCLOS:
>>>
>>> Poorly done menus
>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS-menu.pdf>
>>>
>>> Poorly done dialogs:
>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.pdf>
>>>
>>> Poorly done and Inconsistent dialogs:
>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS2.pdf>
>>>
>>> Mouse pointers that do not do as they say:
>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.mov>[/color]
>> personally I don't like PcLinuxOS. But it is very popular.[/color]
>
> Lovely but irrelevant.[/color]
Why irrelevant? You brought that distro up in an Ubuntu group.
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Even Ubuntu has its share of quirks - though it is clearly done much better:
>>>
>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/ubuntu-menu.pdf>[/color]
>>
>> Okay you have to go to file to quit.[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> For some programs, sure... for others you have to go to File to Exit... and
> for others you have to "close window" and for others you do not even go to
> File... and what is the hot key to terminate... a bit of a mess, eh?
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> And the more recent one showing copy and paste oddities and weird text
>>> behavior on selection:
>>>
>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/copy-paste.mov>[/color]
>> Load glipper problem solved.[/color]
>
> So it is not ready as is. And what is "glibber"? I am not familiar with it[/color]
For one it is glipper not glibber. It is a clipboard. look it up. And
before you say why should I have to load a clipboard in Linux to use it.
The clipboard that comes with windows is not that great either so if you
want more functionality you have to load a third party clipboard of
which there are many. I personally like Clipmate.
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> It is not like such examples are hard to find - or are not obvious. How
>>> could anyone who has used Linux and either Windows or OS X not have such
>>> things be apparent to them - especially someone who considers themselves
>>> knowledgeable about computers?[/color][/color]
>
>
>[/color]
They are apparent. But how long are you going to cry to mama because you
stubbed your toe?
caver1
Re: Yet Another Dud Linux Distribution.
"caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
47fa3610$0$12568$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 7:56 AM:
[color=blue]
> Snit wrote:[color=green]
>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
>> 47fa195d$0$16691$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 5:53 AM:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Snit wrote:
>>>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
>>>> 47f9487a$0$16662$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 3:02 PM:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not everyone wants both.
>>>>>>>>>> caver1
>>>>>>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being
>>>>>>>>> suggested.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT
>>>>>>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not
>>>>>>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.
>>>>>>>> COLA Linux Advocates. :)
>>>>>>> The mind boggles as to "caver1"s mindset where he thinks it better to
>>>>>>> keep a broken, fractured distro because a minority "might" want
>>>>>>> it. Huh?!?!?!? I mean, I have heard some stupid things in my life but
>>>>>>> this kind of mental thought process leaves me wondering just who these
>>>>>>> people are.
>>>>>> The debate is not even about *how* to organize... just *if* it is better
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> be organized in a distro, or have well done organization.
>>>>> Okay Hardon tell me where Linux is Broken.
>>>>> caver1
>>>> I would love to see your argument as to why organization, attractive looks,
>>>> and lack-of-fracturing in the UI would be a bad thing that you would not
>>>> want... just seems absurd to me.
>>>>
>>>
>>> There are several of the Linux distros that have very good organization.
>>> Attractive looks? That's in the eye of the beholder. Personally I think
>>> that Mint is very attractive. Then again when I am Word processing I am
>>> just looking to get it done.
>>> Yes there are problems but they are improving at a rapid pace.
>>> So if you have problems with many of the distros pick one or a dozen and
>>> improve them instead of constantly trying to smear the whole Linux
>>> community because you don't like some of the distros.
>>> yes there are more distros then I will even want to try. But Its their
>>> right to try if they want to.
>>> caver1
>>>[/color]
>> You are moving goal posts. Before you stated that not everyone wants both
>> (a decent look and good organization)... now you are saying that it is in
>> the eye of the beholder (which I agree with - to some extent).
>>
>> Then you jump back to the idea that if I want to have a distro with common
>> sense needs: reasoned organization, consistency, a decent look, etc., I
>> should do the distro dance and when that fails make my own or just improve
>> on others.
>>
>> Sounds like you agree with me that, as is, Linux is not really ready for the
>> general desktop.
>>
>>[/color]
>
>
> My reply was to Hadron.[/color]
Correct.
[color=blue]
> Yes I believe that some of the distros are ready
> for the desktop. That's why I am using Linux.[/color]
And yet you claim that in order to get Linux to have good looks,
consistency, well thought out organization, etc., I need to make my own
distro or alter one.
[color=blue]
> No goal posts moved. Not everyone wants the looks of Ubuntu. Some hate
> it. I think Ubuntu has a good organization, some such as you think not.
> And yes looks is in the eye of the beholder.
> Your wants are different than someone else's. If you want to do the
> dance that's your prerogative. I did not tell you to do it.
> If you like whatever distro then use that one, help that one. But don't
> complain about Linux in general because you don't like some of the
> distros.[/color]
The problem is throughout the distros - not tied to one.
[color=blue]
> Or as you stated above- "I should do the distro dance and when that
> fails make my own or just improve on others."
> Yes help improve and quit complaining that someone else wants to build
> their own to satisfy their needs. You don't have to use theirs so why
> complain.
> Not everyone agree on what common sense is and from the looks of it I
> don't think you use much.[/color]
It is common sense to want general consistency, well thought out
organization, and a decent look designed by a pro.
--
When thinking changes your mind, that's philosophy.
When God changes your mind, that's faith.
When facts change your mind, that's science.
Re: Yet Another Dud Linux Distribution.
caver1 wrote:
[color=blue]
>Snit wrote:[/color]
*plonk*
Re: Yet Another Dud Linux Distribution.
"caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
47fa380c$0$12559$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 8:04 AM:
[color=blue]
> Snit wrote:[color=green]
>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
>> 47fa177e$0$16692$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 5:45 AM:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>>> As I said it is still improving. Tell us where they are lacking.
>>>>> caver1
>>>> From past posts:
>>>>
>>>> PCLOS:
>>>>
>>>> Poorly done menus
>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS-menu.pdf>
>>>>
>>>> Poorly done dialogs:
>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.pdf>
>>>>
>>>> Poorly done and Inconsistent dialogs:
>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS2.pdf>
>>>>
>>>> Mouse pointers that do not do as they say:
>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.mov>
>>> personally I don't like PcLinuxOS. But it is very popular.[/color]
>>
>> Lovely but irrelevant.[/color]
>
>
>
> Why irrelevant? You brought that distro up in an Ubuntu group.[/color]
You asked where *distros* were lacking... and I had been talking about PCLOS
and Ubuntu. I answered.
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>>> Even Ubuntu has its share of quirks - though it is clearly done much
>>>> better:
>>>>
>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/ubuntu-menu.pdf>
>>>
>>> Okay you have to go to file to quit.[/color][/color]
>
>[color=green]
>> For some programs, sure... for others you have to go to File to Exit... and
>> for others you have to "close window" and for others you do not even go to
>> File... and what is the hot key to terminate... a bit of a mess, eh?
>>[color=darkred]
>>>> And the more recent one showing copy and paste oddities and weird text
>>>> behavior on selection:
>>>>
>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/copy-paste.mov>
>>> Load glipper problem solved.[/color]
>>
>> So it is not ready as is. And what is "glibber"? I am not familiar with it[/color]
>
>
>
> For one it is glipper not glibber.[/color]
My mistake. Sorry.
[color=blue]
> It is a clipboard. look it up. And
> before you say why should I have to load a clipboard in Linux to use it.
> The clipboard that comes with windows is not that great either so if you
> want more functionality you have to load a third party clipboard of
> which there are many. I personally like Clipmate.[/color]
I have not even mentioned Windows and do not use it (generally - I do for
some purposes). But it does have a clipboard that works better than what I
show in the movie on Ubuntu!
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>>> It is not like such examples are hard to find - or are not obvious. How
>>>> could anyone who has used Linux and either Windows or OS X not have such
>>>> things be apparent to them - especially someone who considers themselves
>>>> knowledgeable about computers?[/color]
>>
>>
>>[/color]
>
>
> They are apparent. But how long are you going to cry to mama because you
> stubbed your toe?
> caver1[/color]
Er? Not sure what you are getting at.
--
"The music is not inside the piano." - Alan Kay
Re: Yet Another Dud Linux Distribution.
"chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid> stated in post
[email]fuekv35b52fleorkpqkg3eu3jj05ag4g3u@4ax.com[/email] on 4/7/08 8:20 AM:
[color=blue]
> caver1 wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Snit wrote:[/color][/color]
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> My reply was to Hadron.
>>>[/color]
>> Correct.
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Yes I believe that some of the distros are ready for the desktop. That's why
>>> I am using Linux.
>>>[/color]
>> And yet you claim that in order to get Linux to have good looks, consistency,
>> well thought out organization, etc., I need to make my own distro or alter
>> one.
>>[color=darkred]
>>> No goal posts moved. Not everyone wants the looks of Ubuntu. Some hate it. I
>>> think Ubuntu has a good organization, some such as you think not. And yes
>>> looks is in the eye of the beholder. Your wants are different than someone
>>> else's. If you want to do the dance that's your prerogative. I did not tell
>>> you to do it. If you like whatever distro then use that one, help that one.
>>> But don't complain about Linux in general because you don't like some of the
>>> distros.
>>>[/color]
>> The problem is throughout the distros - not tied to one.
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Or as you stated above- "I should do the distro dance and when that fails
>>> make my own or just improve on others." Yes help improve and quit
>>> complaining that someone else wants to build their own to satisfy their
>>> needs. You don't have to use theirs so why complain. Not everyone agree on
>>> what common sense is and from the looks of it I don't think you use much.
>>>[/color]
>>
>> It is common sense to want general consistency, well thought out
>> organization, and a decent look designed by a pro.[/color]
>
> *plonk*
>[/color]
A shame you could not answer the questions and otherwise respond in a
reasoned way. Maybe later?
--
"If a million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."
- Anatole France
Re: Yet Another Dud Linux Distribution.
Snit wrote:[color=blue]
> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
> 47fa3610$0$12568$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 7:56 AM:
>[color=green]
>> Snit wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
>>> 47fa195d$0$16691$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 5:53 AM:
>>>
>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
>>>>> 47f9487a$0$16662$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/6/08 3:02 PM:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Not everyone wants both.
>>>>>>>>>>> caver1
>>>>>>>>>> Uh oh. Another crazy who doesn't actually realise what's being
>>>>>>>>>> suggested.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Firstly we dont necessrily care about "everyone" - only the GREAT
>>>>>>>>>> majority. Secondly I am hard pressed to think of ANYONE who would not
>>>>>>>>>> want a better organized distro with a less fractured UI.
>>>>>>>>> COLA Linux Advocates. :)
>>>>>>>> The mind boggles as to "caver1"s mindset where he thinks it better to
>>>>>>>> keep a broken, fractured distro because a minority "might" want
>>>>>>>> it. Huh?!?!?!? I mean, I have heard some stupid things in my life but
>>>>>>>> this kind of mental thought process leaves me wondering just who these
>>>>>>>> people are.
>>>>>>> The debate is not even about *how* to organize... just *if* it is better
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> be organized in a distro, or have well done organization.
>>>>>> Okay Hardon tell me where Linux is Broken.
>>>>>> caver1
>>>>> I would love to see your argument as to why organization, attractive looks,
>>>>> and lack-of-fracturing in the UI would be a bad thing that you would not
>>>>> want... just seems absurd to me.
>>>>>
>>>> There are several of the Linux distros that have very good organization.
>>>> Attractive looks? That's in the eye of the beholder. Personally I think
>>>> that Mint is very attractive. Then again when I am Word processing I am
>>>> just looking to get it done.
>>>> Yes there are problems but they are improving at a rapid pace.
>>>> So if you have problems with many of the distros pick one or a dozen and
>>>> improve them instead of constantly trying to smear the whole Linux
>>>> community because you don't like some of the distros.
>>>> yes there are more distros then I will even want to try. But Its their
>>>> right to try if they want to.
>>>> caver1
>>>>
>>> You are moving goal posts. Before you stated that not everyone wants both
>>> (a decent look and good organization)... now you are saying that it is in
>>> the eye of the beholder (which I agree with - to some extent).
>>>
>>> Then you jump back to the idea that if I want to have a distro with common
>>> sense needs: reasoned organization, consistency, a decent look, etc., I
>>> should do the distro dance and when that fails make my own or just improve
>>> on others.
>>>
>>> Sounds like you agree with me that, as is, Linux is not really ready for the
>>> general desktop.
>>>
>>>[/color]
>>
>> My reply was to Hadron.[/color]
>
> Correct.
>[color=green]
>> Yes I believe that some of the distros are ready
>> for the desktop. That's why I am using Linux.[/color]
>
> And yet you claim that in order to get Linux to have good looks,
> consistency, well thought out organization, etc., I need to make my own
> distro or alter one.[/color]
If your so stupid you can't think for yourself.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> No goal posts moved. Not everyone wants the looks of Ubuntu. Some hate
>> it. I think Ubuntu has a good organization, some such as you think not.
>> And yes looks is in the eye of the beholder.
>> Your wants are different than someone else's. If you want to do the
>> dance that's your prerogative. I did not tell you to do it.
>> If you like whatever distro then use that one, help that one. But don't
>> complain about Linux in general because you don't like some of the
>> distros.[/color]
>
> The problem is throughout the distros - not tied to one.[/color]
Then if you hate it so much why are you here?
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Or as you stated above- "I should do the distro dance and when that
>> fails make my own or just improve on others."
>> Yes help improve and quit complaining that someone else wants to build
>> their own to satisfy their needs. You don't have to use theirs so why
>> complain.
>> Not everyone agree on what common sense is and from the looks of it I
>> don't think you use much.[/color]
>[/color]
[color=blue]
> It is common sense to want general consistency, well thought out
> organization, and a decent look designed by a pro.
>[/color]
True, and there is general consistency within the distros that I have
tried. Not perfect but improving all the time. Personally I like the
look of several of them. Or you can even change it yourself. Or have
someone else do it for you.
Even my Mom told me to quit coming crying to her if I couldn't learn to
not do what was hurting me. And that was from a pro. If you don't like
a distro don't use it.
If someone else put something out there it is out of the kindness of
his/her heart hoping someone else out there likes it or can get benefit
out of it. No one holds a gun to your head forcing you to use it.
caver1
Re: Yet Another Dud Linux Distribution.
Snit wrote:[color=blue]
> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
> 47fa380c$0$12559$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 8:04 AM:
>[color=green]
>> Snit wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
>>> 47fa177e$0$16692$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 5:45 AM:
>>>
>>>>>> As I said it is still improving. Tell us where they are lacking.
>>>>>> caver1
>>>>> From past posts:
>>>>>
>>>>> PCLOS:
>>>>>
>>>>> Poorly done menus
>>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS-menu.pdf>
>>>>>
>>>>> Poorly done dialogs:
>>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.pdf>
>>>>>
>>>>> Poorly done and Inconsistent dialogs:
>>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS2.pdf>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mouse pointers that do not do as they say:
>>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.mov>
>>>> personally I don't like PcLinuxOS. But it is very popular.
>>> Lovely but irrelevant.[/color]
>>
>>
>> Why irrelevant? You brought that distro up in an Ubuntu group.[/color]
>
> You asked where *distros* were lacking... and I had been talking about PCLOS
> and Ubuntu. I answered.[/color]
So if you don't like it it is relevant but if some disagrees with you it
isn't? So you don't like that. If its a big enough hurdle that you can't
get over it move away from it or find some other way around it.
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>>>> Even Ubuntu has its share of quirks - though it is clearly done much
>>>>> better:
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/ubuntu-menu.pdf>
>>>>
>>>> Okay you have to go to file to quit.[/color]
>>[color=darkred]
>>> For some programs, sure... for others you have to go to File to Exit... and
>>> for others you have to "close window" and for others you do not even go to
>>> File... and what is the hot key to terminate... a bit of a mess, eh?
>>>
>>>>> And the more recent one showing copy and paste oddities and weird text
>>>>> behavior on selection:
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/copy-paste.mov>
>>>> Load glipper problem solved.
>>> So it is not ready as is. And what is "glibber"? I am not familiar with it[/color]
>>
>>
>> For one it is glipper not glibber.[/color]
>
> My mistake. Sorry.
>[color=green]
>> It is a clipboard. look it up. And
>> before you say why should I have to load a clipboard in Linux to use it.
>> The clipboard that comes with windows is not that great either so if you
>> want more functionality you have to load a third party clipboard of
>> which there are many. I personally like Clipmate.[/color]
>
> I have not even mentioned Windows and do not use it (generally - I do for
> some purposes). But it does have a clipboard that works better than what I
> show in the movie on Ubuntu![/color]
My point was even in your perfect windows word people find things that
work much better and use them.
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>>>> It is not like such examples are hard to find - or are not obvious. How
>>>>> could anyone who has used Linux and either Windows or OS X not have such
>>>>> things be apparent to them - especially someone who considers themselves
>>>>> knowledgeable about computers?
>>>[/color][/color][/color]
If I let things like that stop me instesd of trying to find ways to
improve them for myself then I would have never gotten past DOS let
alone Windows.
[color=blue][color=green]
>>
>> They are apparent. But how long are you going to cry to mama because you
>> stubbed your toe?
>> caver1[/color]
>
> Er? Not sure what you are getting at.
>[/color]
Instead of crying all the time do something to improve whatever it is.
goodbye
caver1
Re: Yet Another Dud Linux Distribution.
"caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
47fa539f$0$11318$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 10:02 AM:
[color=blue]
> Snit wrote:[color=green]
>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
>> 47fa380c$0$12559$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 8:04 AM:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Snit wrote:
>>>> "caver1" <caver1@inthemud.org> stated in post
>>>> 47fa177e$0$16692$4c368faf@roadrunner.com on 4/7/08 5:45 AM:
>>>>
>>>>>>> As I said it is still improving. Tell us where they are lacking.
>>>>>>> caver1
>>>>>> From past posts:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PCLOS:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Poorly done menus
>>>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS-menu.pdf>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Poorly done dialogs:
>>>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.pdf>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Poorly done and Inconsistent dialogs:
>>>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS2.pdf>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mouse pointers that do not do as they say:
>>>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.mov>
>>>>> personally I don't like PcLinuxOS. But it is very popular.
>>>> Lovely but irrelevant.
>>>
>>>
>>> Why irrelevant? You brought that distro up in an Ubuntu group.[/color]
>>
>> You asked where *distros* were lacking... and I had been talking about PCLOS
>> and Ubuntu. I answered.[/color]
>
> So if you don't like it it is relevant but if some disagrees with you it
> isn't? So you don't like that. If its a big enough hurdle that you can't
> get over it move away from it or find some other way around it.[/color]
Likes and dislikes are not the issue. Not sure where you got that from. I
am talking about inconsistencies and specific problems with desktop Linux
distros.
....[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> It is a clipboard. look it up. And
>>> before you say why should I have to load a clipboard in Linux to use it.
>>> The clipboard that comes with windows is not that great either so if you
>>> want more functionality you have to load a third party clipboard of
>>> which there are many. I personally like Clipmate.[/color]
>>
>> I have not even mentioned Windows and do not use it (generally - I do for
>> some purposes). But it does have a clipboard that works better than what I
>> show in the movie on Ubuntu![/color]
>
> My point was even in your perfect windows word people find things that
> work much better and use them.[/color]
Not sure what you mean by "perfect windows word"... maybe "perfect Windows
world"? If so I assure you I certainly do not feel that way... while I use
Windows it is not my primary desktop environment (I only have it installed
in a virtual machine). And, again, I have no problem with the idea of
people being able to replace the standard clipboard with a better (or even
just different) one - my concern is the fact that the standard one *clearly*
does not work as it should.
Do you understand the difference?
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>>>>> It is not like such examples are hard to find - or are not obvious. How
>>>>>> could anyone who has used Linux and either Windows or OS X not have such
>>>>>> things be apparent to them - especially someone who considers themselves
>>>>>> knowledgeable about computers?[/color][/color]
>
> If I let things like that stop me instesd of trying to find ways to
> improve them for myself then I would have never gotten past DOS let
> alone Windows.[/color]
Stop you? Again, not sure what you mean... who is stopped from doing what?
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> They are apparent. But how long are you going to cry to mama because you
>>> stubbed your toe?
>>> caver1[/color]
>>
>> Er? Not sure what you are getting at.[/color]
>
> Instead of crying all the time do something to improve whatever it is.[/color]
Well, getting people in the Linux community to not be in denial is a good
first step.
[color=blue]
> goodbye[/color]
good bye.
--
"The music is not inside the piano." - Alan Kay
