Re: [Rival]NSA Had Access Built into Microsoft Windows - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on Re: [Rival]NSA Had Access Built into Microsoft Windows - Ubuntu ; On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 17:25:38 GMT, Robin T Cox wrote: > On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 09:15:50 -0700, Darth Chaos wrote: > >> http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquir...09/government- > spooks-helped-microsoft-build-vista >> >> Excerpt: >> >> Microsoft is not the only one to tap ...

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24

Thread: Re: [Rival]NSA Had Access Built into Microsoft Windows

  1. Re: [Rival]NSA Had Access Built into Microsoft Windows

    On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 17:25:38 GMT, Robin T Cox wrote:

    > On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 09:15:50 -0700, Darth Chaos wrote:
    >
    >> http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquir...09/government-

    > spooks-helped-microsoft-build-vista
    >>
    >> Excerpt:
    >>
    >> Microsoft is not the only one to tap the spooks. Apple, with its Mac OSX
    >> operating system, and Novell with its SUSE Linux also asked the NSA what
    >> it thought of their products. The NSA is quite good at finding weapons
    >> of mass destruction that are not there.
    >>
    >> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2007/01/08/

    > AR2007010801352.html
    >>
    >> Excerpt:
    >>
    >> For the first time, the giant software maker is acknowledging the help
    >> of the secretive agency, better known for eavesdropping on foreign
    >> officials and, more recently, U.S. citizens as part of the Bush
    >> administration's effort to combat terrorism. The agency said it has
    >> helped in the development of the security of Microsoft's new operating
    >> system -- the brains of a computer -- to protect it from worms, Trojan
    >> horses and other insidious computer attackers.

    >
    > LOL that's brilliant! With friends like the NSA who needs enemies?
    > Obviously the NSA are as incompetent as the rest of the Bush
    > administration.
    >
    > However, it's nice to know that MS are so closely tied into them.


    Ever hear of SELinux?

    http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/info/faq.cfm#I1

    I thought not..............


    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  2. Re: [Rival]NSA Had Access Built into Microsoft Windows

    Moshe Goldfarb wrote in
    news:ixzrt4mecul7.1y1jqlqiaw86q.dlg@40tude.net:

    No comments on my post about Windows users losing market share over the
    last 3 years and Linux use doubling ?

    I didn't think so.

  3. Re: [Rival]NSA Had Access Built into Microsoft Windows

    DanS wrote:
    > Moshe Goldfarb wrote in
    > news:ixzrt4mecul7.1y1jqlqiaw86q.dlg@40tude.net:
    >
    > No comments on my post about Windows users losing market share over
    > the last 3 years and Linux use doubling ?
    >
    > I didn't think so.


    Here's a comment: Bull****e!

    Appropriate don't you think?



  4. Re: [Rival]NSA Had Access Built into Microsoft Windows

    "chrisv" wrote in news:47f402cd$0$9881$c3e8da3
    @news.astraweb.com:

    > DanS wrote:
    >> Moshe Goldfarb wrote in
    >> news:ixzrt4mecul7.1y1jqlqiaw86q.dlg@40tude.net:
    >>
    >> No comments on my post about Windows users losing market share over
    >> the last 3 years and Linux use doubling ?
    >>
    >> I didn't think so.

    >
    > Here's a comment: Bull****e!
    >
    > Appropriate don't you think?


    No I don't. We're not talking just the Vista share....we are talking all
    Windows.

    Here....the trend graph from the same site...

    http://marketshare.hitslink.com/repo...&qpdt=1&qpct=4
    &qptimeframe=M&qpsp=87&qpnp=24#

    The trend graph doesn't go back as far as individual months, but the trend
    is still there, and nearly just as big anyway.

    So there you go. This is the same site that is relied on for showing
    declining Linux numbers and taken as gospel by some, so there is no way you
    can argue it being correct for Linux but mistaken for Windows.



  5. Re: [Rival]NSA Had Access Built into Microsoft Windows

    On 02 Apr 2008 22:28:19 GMT, DanS wrote:

    > "chrisv" wrote in news:47f402cd$0$9881$c3e8da3
    > @news.astraweb.com:
    >
    >> DanS wrote:
    >>> Moshe Goldfarb wrote in
    >>> news:ixzrt4mecul7.1y1jqlqiaw86q.dlg@40tude.net:
    >>>
    >>> No comments on my post about Windows users losing market share over
    >>> the last 3 years and Linux use doubling ?
    >>>
    >>> I didn't think so.

    >>
    >> Here's a comment: Bull****e!
    >>
    >> Appropriate don't you think?

    >
    > No I don't. We're not talking just the Vista share....we are talking all
    > Windows.
    >
    > Here....the trend graph from the same site...
    >
    > http://marketshare.hitslink.com/repo...&qpdt=1&qpct=4
    > &qptimeframe=M&qpsp=87&qpnp=24#
    >
    > The trend graph doesn't go back as far as individual months, but the trend
    > is still there, and nearly just as big anyway.
    >
    > So there you go. This is the same site that is relied on for showing
    > declining Linux numbers and taken as gospel by some, so there is no way you
    > can argue it being correct for Linux but mistaken for Windows.


    You can pick just about any site you want and you will come up with Linux
    having somewhere in the neighborhood of 0.6 percent of the desktop
    (browsing).
    The BBC for example has it at 0.8 percent.

    So all of these sites are wrong ?

    I don't think so.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  6. Re: [Rival]NSA Had Access Built into Microsoft Windows

    Moshe Goldfarb wrote in
    news:1iitt998wccbv$.i8vx22xed99v$.dlg@40tude.net:

    > On 02 Apr 2008 22:28:19 GMT, DanS wrote:
    >
    >> "chrisv" wrote in
    >> news:47f402cd$0$9881$c3e8da3 @news.astraweb.com:
    >>
    >>> DanS wrote:
    >>>> Moshe Goldfarb wrote in
    >>>> news:ixzrt4mecul7.1y1jqlqiaw86q.dlg@40tude.net:
    >>>>
    >>>> No comments on my post about Windows users losing market share over
    >>>> the last 3 years and Linux use doubling ?
    >>>>
    >>>> I didn't think so.
    >>>
    >>> Here's a comment: Bull****e!
    >>>
    >>> Appropriate don't you think?

    >>
    >> No I don't. We're not talking just the Vista share....we are talking
    >> all Windows.
    >>
    >> Here....the trend graph from the same site...
    >>
    >> http://marketshare.hitslink.com/repo...&qpdt=1&qpct=4
    >> &qptimeframe=M&qpsp=87&qpnp=24#
    >>
    >> The trend graph doesn't go back as far as individual months, but the
    >> trend is still there, and nearly just as big anyway.
    >>
    >> So there you go. This is the same site that is relied on for showing
    >> declining Linux numbers and taken as gospel by some, so there is no
    >> way you can argue it being correct for Linux but mistaken for
    >> Windows.

    >
    > You can pick just about any site you want and you will come up with
    > Linux having somewhere in the neighborhood of 0.6 percent of the
    > desktop (browsing).
    > The BBC for example has it at 0.8 percent.


    And there are sites that have it at 1.x% and 2.x% and 3.x% and the reason
    you pick this one is because it the lowest rating for Linux of any of
    them, that I have seen.

    > So all of these sites are wrong ?
    >
    > I don't think so.


    I didn't say anything about it being wrong.

    What was interesting is that the MS share has dropped 4+ percent in the
    past 3 years, and the Linux share has doubled in the same time period.

    MS is losing shares and Mac & Linux are picking them up. That's all I'm
    saying.

    So yeah I guess the numbers at that site are accurate.

  7. Re: [Rival]NSA Had Access Built into Microsoft Windows

    DanS wrote:
    >
    > And there are sites that have it at 1.x% and 2.x% and 3.x% and the
    > reason you pick this one is because it the lowest rating for Linux of
    > any of them, that I have seen.


    Please list them. I don't believe linux has that penetration; actually, I
    question the .6% representing actual desktops _using_ linux. Maybe they're
    counting downloads whether they are being installed and used, or not.



  8. Re: [Rival]NSA Had Access Built into Microsoft Windows



    "chrisv" wrote in message
    news:47f44e49$0$9900$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
    > DanS wrote:
    >>
    >> And there are sites that have it at 1.x% and 2.x% and 3.x% and the
    >> reason you pick this one is because it the lowest rating for Linux of
    >> any of them, that I have seen.

    >
    > Please list them. I don't believe linux has that penetration; actually, I
    > question the .6% representing actual desktops _using_ linux. Maybe they're
    > counting downloads whether they are being installed and used, or not.
    >


    I would imagine linux.org would have a high percentage of linux browsers..
    pretty much meaningless if you choose your sites with care. To stand any
    chance of being correct you need to use a site like the bbc that has content
    that appeals to all. This allows anyone to argue which figures are correct
    if they don't like them. It is a no win situation.


  9. Re: [Rival]NSA Had Access Built into Microsoft Windows

    * chrisv peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > DanS wrote:
    >>
    >> And there are sites that have it at 1.x% and 2.x% and 3.x% and the
    >> reason you pick this one is because it the lowest rating for Linux of
    >> any of them, that I have seen.

    >
    > Please list them. I don't believe linux has that penetration; actually, I
    > question the .6% representing actual desktops _using_ linux. Maybe they're
    > counting downloads whether they are being installed and used, or not.


    This poster is forging chrisv.

    --
    When we have the information highway, I'll put it [information about
    himself] out there. Everybody who wants to pay, I don't know, one cent, can
    see what movies I'm watching and what books I'm reading and certain other
    information. If I'm still interesting, I'll rack up dollars as people
    access that part of the highway.
    -- Bill Gates, Interview in Playboy magazine (1994)

  10. Re: [Rival]NSA Had Access Built into Microsoft Windows

    On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 08:01:00 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

    > "chrisv" wrote in message
    > news:47f44e49$0$9900$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
    >> DanS wrote:
    >>>
    >>> And there are sites that have it at 1.x% and 2.x% and 3.x% and the
    >>> reason you pick this one is because it the lowest rating for Linux of
    >>> any of them, that I have seen.

    >>
    >> Please list them. I don't believe linux has that penetration; actually,
    >> I question the .6% representing actual desktops _using_ linux. Maybe
    >> they're counting downloads whether they are being installed and used,
    >> or not.
    >>
    >>

    > I would imagine linux.org would have a high percentage of linux
    > browsers.. pretty much meaningless if you choose your sites with care.
    > To stand any chance of being correct you need to use a site like the bbc
    > that has content that appeals to all. This allows anyone to argue which
    > figures are correct if they don't like them. It is a no win situation.


    BBC itself may be OS-neutral, but that doesn't mean that the average
    Linux user is as likely as the average Windows user to get their news
    there. People who would use a niche OS tend to be independent-minded and
    assertive and at least half the Linux users out there are computer
    power-users. As such, they may be more likely to prefer less
    conventional news sources, may spend most of their online time on
    technical and linux websites, and are more likely to use powerful
    adblockers which, as a side-effect, tend to interfere with OS
    identification and hit counters. Though it's not as bad as it used to
    be, enough Linux users have to emulate IE to access websites that some
    of the Linux browsers have a menu entry for browser-ID. And, finally,
    I've seen many claims that IE generates more hits per visit than Linux
    browsers.

    So, OS hits for "neutral" sites don't tell us anything, either.

  11. Re: [Rival]NSA Had Access Built into Microsoft Windows

    On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 19:23:24 -0800, "chrisv"
    wrote:

    >DanS wrote:
    >>
    >> And there are sites that have it at 1.x% and 2.x% and 3.x% and the
    >> reason you pick this one is because it the lowest rating for Linux of
    >> any of them, that I have seen.

    >
    >Please list them. I don't believe linux has that penetration; actually, I
    >question the .6% representing actual desktops _using_ linux. Maybe they're
    >counting downloads whether they are being installed and used, or not.
    >


    Then the numbers are probably low. I downloaded 1 copy that is being
    _used_ on four (4) different computers. The same might be said for
    Windoze but the advantage of Linux is that it's _legal_.


    Roy Strachan - Registered Linux User 469226

  12. Re: [Rival]NSA Had Access Built into Microsoft Windows



    "Roy Strachan" wrote in message
    news:48bav3p8864jq6b2f9v2ecggc7useg1m6j@4ax.com...
    > On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 19:23:24 -0800, "chrisv"
    > wrote:
    >
    >>DanS wrote:
    >>>
    >>> And there are sites that have it at 1.x% and 2.x% and 3.x% and the
    >>> reason you pick this one is because it the lowest rating for Linux of
    >>> any of them, that I have seen.

    >>
    >>Please list them. I don't believe linux has that penetration; actually, I
    >>question the .6% representing actual desktops _using_ linux. Maybe they're
    >>counting downloads whether they are being installed and used, or not.
    >>

    >
    > Then the numbers are probably low. I downloaded 1 copy that is being
    > _used_ on four (4) different computers. The same might be said for
    > Windoze but the advantage of Linux is that it's _legal_.


    I have downloaded linux at least 70 times, I have two copies running ATM.
    Its easy to download a distro, try it and bin it when its free so any
    download figures are likely to be far too high to represent the actual user
    base IMO.


  13. Re: [Rival]NSA Had Access Built into Microsoft Windows

    On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:29:38 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

    > "Roy Strachan" wrote in message
    > news:48bav3p8864jq6b2f9v2ecggc7useg1m6j@4ax.com...
    >> On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 19:23:24 -0800, "chrisv"
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>DanS wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> And there are sites that have it at 1.x% and 2.x% and 3.x% and the
    >>>> reason you pick this one is because it the lowest rating for Linux of
    >>>> any of them, that I have seen.
    >>>
    >>>Please list them. I don't believe linux has that penetration; actually,
    >>>I question the .6% representing actual desktops _using_ linux. Maybe
    >>>they're counting downloads whether they are being installed and used,
    >>>or not.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> Then the numbers are probably low. I downloaded 1 copy that is being
    >> _used_ on four (4) different computers. The same might be said for
    >> Windoze but the advantage of Linux is that it's _legal_.

    >
    > I have downloaded linux at least 70 times, I have two copies running
    > ATM. Its easy to download a distro, try it and bin it when its free so
    > any download figures are likely to be far too high to represent the
    > actual user base IMO.


    The 0.6% doesn't come from downloads, it comes from website hits which is
    not a reliable way to measure desktop share. A website may be OS-neutral,
    but that doesn't mean that the average Linux user is as likely as the
    average Windows user to get their news there. People who would use a niche
    OS may prefer less conventional news sources, or may spend a greater
    percentage of their time on technical and linux websites. Powerful Linux
    adblockers may interfere with OS detection or hit counters. Linux users
    may find it necessary to alter their browser-ID strings to gain access to
    IE-only sites. There have also been assertions that IE generates extra
    hits when visiting a website, adding to its count.

    The only reliable way to accurately access OS desktop share is to send
    someone out to see what's actually on every desktop in the sample.


  14. Re: [Rival]NSA Had Access Built into Microsoft Windows

    dennis@home wrote:

    >
    >
    > "chrisv" wrote in message
    > news:47f44e49$0$9900$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
    > > DanS wrote:
    > >>
    > >> And there are sites that have it at 1.x% and 2.x% and 3.x% and
    > >> the reason you pick this one is because it the lowest rating
    > >> for Linux of any of them, that I have seen.

    > >
    > > Please list them. I don't believe linux has that penetration;
    > > actually, I question the .6% representing actual desktops
    > > _using_ linux. Maybe they're counting downloads whether they
    > > are being installed and used, or not.
    > >

    >
    > I would imagine linux.org would have a high percentage of linux
    > browsers.. pretty much meaningless if you choose your sites with
    > care. To stand any chance of being correct you need to use a site
    > like the bbc


    Interesting that you should mention BBC. Not so much, that you've
    once again kicked your own ass.

    It's ironic that bbc.co.uk sponsors a mailing list called
    "Backstage" which is intended for just such discussions. Even 12
    months ago they were reporting Linux "penetration" as high as 1.5%,
    and the figure has been steadily rising. FWIW, Mac users are at
    around 8% and rising last I checked. Only one "class" of users
    actually declined in spite of a steady rise in monthly hit averages,
    and that was... [drum roll]... Winblows users.








  15. Re: [Rival]NSA Had Access Built into Microsoft Windows



    "Anonymous" wrote in message
    news:2f0211e11536d06f4e2440b9d08013bc@hermetix.org ...
    > dennis@home wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> "chrisv" wrote in message
    >> news:47f44e49$0$9900$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
    >> > DanS wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >> And there are sites that have it at 1.x% and 2.x% and 3.x% and
    >> >> the reason you pick this one is because it the lowest rating
    >> >> for Linux of any of them, that I have seen.
    >> >
    >> > Please list them. I don't believe linux has that penetration;
    >> > actually, I question the .6% representing actual desktops
    >> > _using_ linux. Maybe they're counting downloads whether they
    >> > are being installed and used, or not.
    >> >

    >>
    >> I would imagine linux.org would have a high percentage of linux
    >> browsers.. pretty much meaningless if you choose your sites with
    >> care. To stand any chance of being correct you need to use a site
    >> like the bbc

    >
    > Interesting that you should mention BBC. Not so much, that you've
    > once again kicked your own ass.


    How?
    I don't give a toss what the percentage figures are.
    Its you that cares.
    Its always the linux advocates that jump up and down about beating M$.
    Windows users don't care about linux at all.
    They do get annoyed when linux users like you, alias and none stop rant and
    lie all over the windows support groups, some like Frank have even decided
    to retaliate in the ubuntu group as a result.
    It makes no difference to the majority of linux users what M$ does, linux
    does what they want.
    You should try it some time and then you can stop ranting and raving against
    M$ and live longer.

    >
    > It's ironic that bbc.co.uk sponsors a mailing list called
    > "Backstage" which is intended for just such discussions. Even 12
    > months ago they were reporting Linux "penetration" as high as 1.5%,
    > and the figure has been steadily rising. FWIW, Mac users are at
    > around 8% and rising last I checked. Only one "class" of users
    > actually declined in spite of a steady rise in monthly hit averages,
    > and that was... [drum roll]... Winblows users.


    See what I mean about it being you that cares and almost nobody else.


  16. Re: [Rival]NSA Had Access Built into Microsoft Windows

    dennis@home wrote:
    >
    >
    > "Anonymous" wrote in message
    > news:2f0211e11536d06f4e2440b9d08013bc@hermetix.org ...
    >> dennis@home wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "chrisv" wrote in message
    >>> news:47f44e49$0$9900$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
    >>> > DanS wrote:
    >>> >>
    >>> >> And there are sites that have it at 1.x% and 2.x% and 3.x% and
    >>> >> the reason you pick this one is because it the lowest rating
    >>> >> for Linux of any of them, that I have seen.
    >>> >
    >>> > Please list them. I don't believe linux has that penetration;
    >>> > actually, I question the .6% representing actual desktops
    >>> > _using_ linux. Maybe they're counting downloads whether they
    >>> > are being installed and used, or not.
    >>> >
    >>>
    >>> I would imagine linux.org would have a high percentage of linux
    >>> browsers.. pretty much meaningless if you choose your sites with
    >>> care. To stand any chance of being correct you need to use a site
    >>> like the bbc

    >>
    >> Interesting that you should mention BBC. Not so much, that you've
    >> once again kicked your own ass.

    >
    > How?
    > I don't give a toss what the percentage figures are.
    > Its you that cares.
    > Its always the linux advocates that jump up and down about beating M$.
    > Windows users don't care about linux at all.
    > They do get annoyed when linux users like you, alias and none stop rant
    > and lie all over the windows support groups, some like Frank have even
    > decided to retaliate in the ubuntu group as a result.
    > It makes no difference to the majority of linux users what M$ does,
    > linux does what they want.
    > You should try it some time and then you can stop ranting and raving
    > against M$ and live longer.
    >




    No but MS does.
    caver1

  17. Re: [Rival]NSA Had Access Built into Microsoft Windows

    dennis@home wrote:
    > Windows users don't care about linux at all.


    Hmmm, the trolls in this group are anecdotal evidence otherwise.

    --
    Wes Groleau
    ------
    "The reason most women would rather have beauty than brains is
    they know that most men can see better than they can think."
    -- James Dobson

  18. Re: [Rival]NSA Had Access Built into Microsoft Windows



    "Wes Groleau" wrote in message
    news:Ug9Kj.255$_I1.189@trnddc02...
    > dennis@home wrote:
    >> Windows users don't care about linux at all.

    >
    > Hmmm, the trolls in this group are anecdotal evidence otherwise.


    Most of the windows trolls in a.o.l.u and a.o.w are there because linux
    trolls cross posted cr@p in the first place.

    AFAICS c.o.l.a is a joke group anyway.


  19. Re: [Rival]NSA Had Access Built into Microsoft Windows

    Wes Groleau writes:

    > dennis@home wrote:
    >> Windows users don't care about linux at all.

    >
    > Hmmm, the trolls in this group are anecdotal evidence otherwise.


    Who are these people advocating Windows? I know DFS does it, but thats
    about it from what I can see. The others just want a more practical
    approach to Linux advocacy that doesn't have a "must hate ms"
    prerequisite.

    --
    ok, I will not marry Jo-Con-El's cow.

  20. Re: [Rival]NSA Had Access Built into Microsoft Windows

    Hadron wrote:

    > Wes Groleau writes:
    >
    > > dennis@home wrote:
    > >> Windows users don't care about linux at all.

    > >
    > > Hmmm, the trolls in this group are anecdotal evidence otherwise.

    >
    > Who are these people advocating Windows?


    WTF are you blubbering about? Why are you trying to obfuscate with
    feeble attempts to draw parallels between fanaticism and advocacy.
    People like you are fanatics. You care for NOTHING but the
    delusions of significance your anti-Linux obsession gives you.


+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast