Disk Usage Question - Ubuntu

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  1. Disk Usage Question

    I have loaded a number of laptops and desktops with with difference hard
    drive capacities. There seems to be some loss in the usable disk space
    and it is not consistent, to me, at any rate. The items in the 2nd thru
    3rd columns were obtained using the Disk Usage Analyzer.

    Listed HD Capacity Capacity Used Available Lost? %Lost?
    a) 30 24.0 9.0 15.0 6.0 20.0
    b) 10 8.8 2.0 6.8 1.2 12.0
    c) 60 54.5 4.1 50.2 5.7 9.5
    d) 40 35.0 1.9 33.2 5.0 12.5
    e) 120 107.0 2.9 105.9 12.1 10.1

    System a) is used as my internet browser, mail box, etc. It has pictures
    and documents on it, so the used amount reflects that.

    System c) is dual boot with Windoz.

    The other three are virgins with no updates. So what is the reason for
    the differences in the "Lost" column? I know some real estate is needed
    for the directory; is that where it has gone?

    Al

  2. Re: Disk Usage Question

    Al wrote:
    > I have loaded a number of laptops and desktops with with difference hard
    > drive capacities. There seems to be some loss in the usable disk space
    > and it is not consistent, to me, at any rate. The items in the 2nd thru
    > 3rd columns were obtained using the Disk Usage Analyzer.
    >
    > Listed HD Capacity Capacity Used Available Lost? %Lost?
    > a) 30 24.0 9.0 15.0 6.0 20.0
    > b) 10 8.8 2.0 6.8 1.2 12.0
    > c) 60 54.5 4.1 50.2 5.7 9.5
    > d) 40 35.0 1.9 33.2 5.0 12.5
    > e) 120 107.0 2.9 105.9 12.1 10.1
    >
    > System a) is used as my internet browser, mail box, etc. It has pictures
    > and documents on it, so the used amount reflects that.
    >
    > System c) is dual boot with Windoz.
    >
    > The other three are virgins with no updates. So what is the reason for
    > the differences in the "Lost" column? I know some real estate is needed
    > for the directory; is that where it has gone?
    >
    > Al


    The hard drive manufacturers play fast and loose with the numbers. They
    aren't as bad as they were. There is also a fairly technical explanation
    where the manufacturers would list the sizes in base 10 and the programs
    would read it back in base 16 (a GB in base 16 is bigger than in base
    10). Then there could be bad sectors on the disk it self. Modern hard
    drives don't choke when they encounter one. They just go around it and
    don't include it in any space calculations. Then there could be the
    "house keeping" and wasted space taken up when partitioning a hard
    drive. This is usually fairly small. Of course there are other possible
    reasons.

    This is more of a hard drive issue than it is a Linux issue. OTOH,
    Linux can report hard drive space differently depending on what method
    is used. You may want to read the man pages on df and du.

    Later
    Mike

  3. Re: Disk Usage Question

    Al wrote:
    > I have loaded a number of laptops and desktops with with difference hard
    > drive capacities. There seems to be some loss in the usable disk space
    > and it is not consistent, to me, at any rate. The items in the 2nd thru
    > 3rd columns were obtained using the Disk Usage Analyzer.
    >
    > Listed HD Capacity Capacity Used Available Lost? %Lost?
    > a) 30 24.0 9.0 15.0 6.0 20.0
    > b) 10 8.8 2.0 6.8 1.2 12.0
    > c) 60 54.5 4.1 50.2 5.7 9.5
    > d) 40 35.0 1.9 33.2 5.0 12.5
    > e) 120 107.0 2.9 105.9 12.1 10.1
    >
    > System a) is used as my internet browser, mail box, etc. It has pictures
    > and documents on it, so the used amount reflects that.
    >
    > System c) is dual boot with Windoz.
    >
    > The other three are virgins with no updates. So what is the reason for
    > the differences in the "Lost" column? I know some real estate is needed
    > for the directory; is that where it has gone?
    >
    > Al



    Does this include the swap space and root?

  4. Re: Disk Usage Question

    On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:54:08 +0100, Cork Soaker wrote:

    > Al wrote:
    >> I have loaded a number of laptops and desktops with with difference
    >> hard drive capacities. There seems to be some loss in the usable disk
    >> space and it is not consistent, to me, at any rate. The items in the
    >> 2nd thru 3rd columns were obtained using the Disk Usage Analyzer.
    >>
    >> Listed HD Capacity Capacity Used Available Lost? %Lost? a) 30
    >> 24.0 9.0 15.0 6.0 20.0 b) 10
    >> 8.8 2.0 6.8 1.2 12.0 c) 60
    >> 54.5 4.1 50.2 5.7 9.5 d) 40
    >> 35.0 1.9 33.2 5.0 12.5 e) 120 107.0
    >> 2.9 105.9 12.1 10.1
    >>
    >> System a) is used as my internet browser, mail box, etc. It has
    >> pictures and documents on it, so the used amount reflects that.
    >>
    >> System c) is dual boot with Windoz.
    >>
    >> The other three are virgins with no updates. So what is the reason for
    >> the differences in the "Lost" column? I know some real estate is needed
    >> for the directory; is that where it has gone?
    >>
    >> Al

    >
    >
    > Does this include the swap space and root?


    I dunno. What does the provided "Disk Usage Analyzer" actually include in
    the "Used" column? And why would the amounts of disk space vary so much?
    Shouldn't root be the same size in all these situations? And isn't the
    swap space based on the amount of RAM you have? That certainly is not in
    the multiple GBytes.

    Al

  5. Re: Disk Usage Question

    Al wrote:
    >>
    >> Does this include the swap space and root?

    >
    > I dunno. What does the provided "Disk Usage Analyzer" actually include in
    > the "Used" column? And why would the amounts of disk space vary so much?
    > Shouldn't root be the same size in all these situations? And isn't the
    > swap space based on the amount of RAM you have? That certainly is not in
    > the multiple GBytes.
    >
    > Al


    Don't know to be fair. I assume using the "guided" solution in Ubuntu
    install just breaks up the partitions to... whatever...
    It was just a guess to be fair.

  6. Re: Disk Usage Question

    On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 21:19:10 +0100, Cork Soaker wrote:

    > Al wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Does this include the swap space and root?

    >>
    >> I dunno. What does the provided "Disk Usage Analyzer" actually include
    >> in the "Used" column? And why would the amounts of disk space vary so
    >> much? Shouldn't root be the same size in all these situations? And
    >> isn't the swap space based on the amount of RAM you have? That
    >> certainly is not in the multiple GBytes.
    >>
    >> Al

    >
    > Don't know to be fair. I assume using the "guided" solution in Ubuntu
    > install just breaks up the partitions to... whatever... It was just a
    > guess to be fair.


    I like Ubuntu because it lets you snoop around in the guts and do
    interesting things. But the commands are so arcane. I have two thick
    books on Ubuntu and it's hard to find something if you don't know the
    names of the things you are looking for. Someone suggested using df and
    du to find out more details. Now how would I know what on earth to look
    for....df and du???

    I recently fixed a problem in a laptop with:

    sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phisgh xserver-xorg

    that someone had supplied to me. ????

    An Ubuntu neophyte.

    Al

  7. Re: Disk Usage Question

    Al wrote:
    > On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 21:19:10 +0100, Cork Soaker wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Al wrote:
    >>
    >>>> Does this include the swap space and root?
    >>>>
    >>> I dunno. What does the provided "Disk Usage Analyzer" actually include
    >>> in the "Used" column? And why would the amounts of disk space vary so
    >>> much? Shouldn't root be the same size in all these situations? And
    >>> isn't the swap space based on the amount of RAM you have? That
    >>> certainly is not in the multiple GBytes.
    >>>
    >>> Al
    >>>

    >> Don't know to be fair. I assume using the "guided" solution in Ubuntu
    >> install just breaks up the partitions to... whatever... It was just a
    >> guess to be fair.
    >>

    >
    > I like Ubuntu because it lets you snoop around in the guts and do
    > interesting things. But the commands are so arcane. I have two thick
    > books on Ubuntu and it's hard to find something if you don't know the
    > names of the things you are looking for. Someone suggested using df and
    > du to find out more details. Now how would I know what on earth to look
    > for....df and du???
    >
    > I recently fixed a problem in a laptop with:
    >
    > sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phisgh xserver-xorg
    >
    > that someone had supplied to me. ????
    >
    > An Ubuntu neophyte.
    >
    > Al
    >



    Arcane? Not hardly!

    Try apropos (write that on your wall).

    Then learn about man pages.

    man df

    man du

    Wikipedia and Google are also your friends.

    The books belong in the outhouse.


    --
    John

    No Microsoft, Apple, Intel, Trend Micro, nor Ford products were used in the preparation or transmission of this message.

    The EULA sounds like it was written by a team of lawyers who want to tell me what I can't do. The GPL sounds like it was written by a human being, who wants me to know what I can do.

  8. Re: Disk Usage Question

    On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 04:55:51 +0000, John F. Morse wrote:

    > Al wrote:
    >> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 21:19:10 +0100, Cork Soaker wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> Al wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>> Does this include the swap space and root?
    >>>>>
    >>>> I dunno. What does the provided "Disk Usage Analyzer" actually
    >>>> include in the "Used" column? And why would the amounts of disk space
    >>>> vary so much? Shouldn't root be the same size in all these
    >>>> situations? And isn't the swap space based on the amount of RAM you
    >>>> have? That certainly is not in the multiple GBytes.
    >>>>
    >>>> Al
    >>>>
    >>> Don't know to be fair. I assume using the "guided" solution in Ubuntu
    >>> install just breaks up the partitions to... whatever... It was just a
    >>> guess to be fair.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> I like Ubuntu because it lets you snoop around in the guts and do
    >> interesting things. But the commands are so arcane. I have two thick
    >> books on Ubuntu and it's hard to find something if you don't know the
    >> names of the things you are looking for. Someone suggested using df and
    >> du to find out more details. Now how would I know what on earth to look
    >> for....df and du???
    >>
    >> I recently fixed a problem in a laptop with:
    >>
    >> sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phisgh xserver-xorg
    >>
    >> that someone had supplied to me. ????
    >>
    >> An Ubuntu neophyte.
    >>
    >> Al
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Arcane? Not hardly!
    >
    > Try apropos (write that on your wall).
    >
    > Then learn about man pages.
    >
    > man df
    >
    > man du
    >
    > Wikipedia and Google are also your friends.
    >
    > The books belong in the outhouse.


    I know about man pages and use them often. I haven't a clue as to even
    know that something like df or du even exists.

    This was helpful:

    DU(1) User Commands
    DU(1)

    NAME
    du - estimate file space usage

    SYNOPSIS
    du [OPTION]... [FILE]...
    du [OPTION]... --files0-from=F

    DESCRIPTION
    Summarize disk usage of each FILE, recursively for directories.

    Mandatory arguments to long options are mandatory for short
    options
    too.

    -a, --all
    write counts for all files, not just directories

    --apparent-size
    print apparent sizes, rather than disk usage;
    although the
    apparent size is usually smaller, it may be larger due to
    holes
    in (‘sparse’) files, internal fragmentation, indirect
    blocks,
    and the like

    But where is the listing that tells you that you need to use DU?

    All those arcane commands were written in the days of little memory. Why
    not use real words that have some relationship to the things that they
    are supposed to do?

    Instead of DU, why not fileusage?

    Instead of man, why not manual?

    What is GRUB? Something a unix expert eats?

    The list of arcane commands is endless.

    Al

  9. Re: Disk Usage Question

    Al wrote:

    > On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 04:55:51 +0000, John F. Morse wrote:
    >
    >> Al wrote:
    >>> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 21:19:10 +0100, Cork Soaker wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Al wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>> Does this include the swap space and root?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> I dunno. What does the provided "Disk Usage Analyzer" actually
    >>>>> include in the "Used" column? And why would the amounts of disk space
    >>>>> vary so much? Shouldn't root be the same size in all these
    >>>>> situations? And isn't the swap space based on the amount of RAM you
    >>>>> have? That certainly is not in the multiple GBytes.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Al
    >>>>>
    >>>> Don't know to be fair. I assume using the "guided" solution in Ubuntu
    >>>> install just breaks up the partitions to... whatever... It was just a
    >>>> guess to be fair.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> I like Ubuntu because it lets you snoop around in the guts and do
    >>> interesting things. But the commands are so arcane. I have two thick
    >>> books on Ubuntu and it's hard to find something if you don't know the
    >>> names of the things you are looking for. Someone suggested using df and
    >>> du to find out more details. Now how would I know what on earth to look
    >>> for....df and du???
    >>>
    >>> I recently fixed a problem in a laptop with:
    >>>
    >>> sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phisgh xserver-xorg
    >>>
    >>> that someone had supplied to me. ????
    >>>
    >>> An Ubuntu neophyte.
    >>>
    >>> Al
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Arcane? Not hardly!
    >>
    >> Try apropos (write that on your wall).
    >>
    >> Then learn about man pages.
    >>
    >> man df
    >>
    >> man du
    >>
    >> Wikipedia and Google are also your friends.
    >>
    >> The books belong in the outhouse.

    >
    > I know about man pages and use them often. I haven't a clue as to even
    > know that something like df or du even exists.
    >
    > This was helpful:
    >
    > DU(1) User Commands
    > DU(1)
    >
    > NAME
    > du - estimate file space usage
    >
    > SYNOPSIS
    > du [OPTION]... [FILE]...
    > du [OPTION]... --files0-from=F
    >
    > DESCRIPTION
    > Summarize disk usage of each FILE, recursively for directories.
    >
    > Mandatory arguments to long options are mandatory for short
    > options
    > too.
    >
    > -a, --all
    > write counts for all files, not just directories
    >
    > --apparent-size
    > print apparent sizes, rather than disk usage;
    > although the
    > apparent size is usually smaller, it may be larger due to
    > holes
    > in (‘sparse’) files, internal fragmentation, indirect
    > blocks,
    > and the like
    >
    > But where is the listing that tells you that you need to use DU?
    >
    > All those arcane commands were written in the days of little memory. Why
    > not use real words that have some relationship to the things that they
    > are supposed to do?
    >

    Had/has nothing to do with how much memory a computer has. Short command
    names mean less typing at the command line. If you used the command line or
    did a lot of ssh remote access, you too would appreciate it.

    > Instead of DU, why not fileusage?
    >
    > Instead of man, why not manual?
    >
    > What is GRUB? Something a unix expert eats?
    >

    Idiot.

    > The list of arcane commands is endless.
    >
    > Al


    Cheers.

    --
    The world can't afford the rich.

    alt.os.linux.ubuntu - where the lunatic Hadron is a "Linux advocate"

    Francis (Frank) adds a new "gadget" to his Vista box ...
    Download it here: http://tinyurl.com/2hnof6



  10. Re: Disk Usage Question

    On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:59:16 GMT, Al wrote:
    >
    > I know about man pages and use them often. I haven't a clue as to even
    > know that something like df or du even exists.


    here is a clue

    man -k one_key_word_here Example:

    man -k disk

    Want to filter results
    man -k disk | grep -i usage

    For extra points
    man man
    man grep

  11. Re: Disk Usage Question

    On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:17:30 +0000, Bit Twister wrote:

    > On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:59:16 GMT, Al wrote:
    >>
    >> I know about man pages and use them often. I haven't a clue as to even
    >> know that something like df or du even exists.

    >
    > here is a clue
    >
    > man -k one_key_word_here Example:
    >
    > man -k disk
    >
    > Want to filter results
    > man -k disk | grep -i usage
    >
    > For extra points
    > man man
    > man grep


    Thanks, now this is really useful.

    I tried man -k disk and got useful information. But how would I have
    known to use -k? Where did that come from? Is -k the same for any command
    or does it depend upon the context?

    Al

  12. Re: Disk Usage Question

    On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 15:09:52 GMT, Al wrote:
    > On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:17:30 +0000, Bit Twister wrote:
    >>
    >> For extra points
    >> man man
    >> man grep

    >
    > Thanks, now this is really useful.
    >
    > I tried man -k disk and got useful information. But how would I have
    > known to use -k?


    I see you did not go for the extra points :-(


    > Where did that come from?


    man man

    > Is -k the same for any command


    -k is -k, if you mean does the same thing. No.

    > or does it depend upon the context?


    What happens depends on the application.

    Example given was for the /man/ application.


  13. Re: Disk Usage Question

    Al wrote:
    > On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 21:19:10 +0100, Cork Soaker wrote:
    >
    >> Al wrote:
    >>>> Does this include the swap space and root?
    >>> I dunno. What does the provided "Disk Usage Analyzer" actually include
    >>> in the "Used" column? And why would the amounts of disk space vary so
    >>> much? Shouldn't root be the same size in all these situations? And
    >>> isn't the swap space based on the amount of RAM you have? That
    >>> certainly is not in the multiple GBytes.
    >>>
    >>> Al

    >> Don't know to be fair. I assume using the "guided" solution in Ubuntu
    >> install just breaks up the partitions to... whatever... It was just a
    >> guess to be fair.

    >
    > I like Ubuntu because it lets you snoop around in the guts and do
    > interesting things. But the commands are so arcane. I have two thick
    > books on Ubuntu and it's hard to find something if you don't know the
    > names of the things you are looking for. Someone suggested using df and
    > du to find out more details. Now how would I know what on earth to look
    > for....df and du???
    >
    > I recently fixed a problem in a laptop with:
    >
    > sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phisgh xserver-xorg
    >
    > that someone had supplied to me. ????
    >
    > An Ubuntu neophyte.
    >
    > Al


    Take a deep breath and relax a bit. Google disk usage ubuntu. Returns
    101,000 hits according to Google. Still on topic at page 50.

    Daniel

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