Re: How unpopular is Ubuntu Linux, just take a look. - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on Re: How unpopular is Ubuntu Linux, just take a look. - Ubuntu ; On 2008-03-30, rick wrote: > On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 10:31:16 -0500, Stephan Rose wrote: > >> >> But what about home users? Personally, I just use Gnucash and call it a >> day. I can enter all my expenses ...

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Thread: Re: How unpopular is Ubuntu Linux, just take a look.

  1. Re: How unpopular is Ubuntu Linux, just take a look.

    On 2008-03-30, rick wrote:
    > On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 10:31:16 -0500, Stephan Rose wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> But what about home users? Personally, I just use Gnucash and call it a
    >> day. I can enter all my expenses and bills and categorize things the way
    >> I want. And, it's got more graphs and reports to show with than I even
    >> know what they all mean. About the only report I give a crap about is
    >> the expense barchart so I can see where my expenses are and what may be
    >> worth looking at for improvement....So even if this program doesn't have
    >> all the features Quickbooks has, it already has more than I'll ever
    >> need...

    >
    > A turbotax port would be nice, especially for us sole proprietors who are
    > trying to run the biz as economically as possible.


    You really have no business using software for something like
    that to begin with anyways...

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  2. Re: How unpopular is Ubuntu Linux, just take a look.

    On 2008-03-31, Tim Smith wrote:
    > In article ,
    > Stephan Rose wrote:
    >> Office?
    >>
    >> Sure, Ms Office has some neat features. But let's be realistic....who
    >> needs a $300-$400 office package in order to write a letter to grandma?

    >
    > Actually, for home users, Office 2007 retail price, non-upgrade, is
    > $149.95 for the software and licenses to use it on three computers,
    > which is quite a bit less than $300-400.
    >
    > Office:mac 2008 is around $130 for a similar deal.
    >
    > That's a pretty darn good deal for Word and Excel. Excel paid for
    > itself when I bought my house last year, and used it to get a very
    > detailed understanding of my finances and what the consequences of
    > various options would be. I could have done the same thing in
    > OpenOffice, but much more awkwardly, due to the clumsier UI design and
    > poor documentation of OO.


    I really thing this is big pile of festering bull****.

    This isn't rocket science you are talking about, or pipe engineering.

    A 15 year old copy of Opus would do well enough. Nevermind OO Calc.

    >
    > Word isn't worth it if you are just writing letters to grandma, but if
    > you are writing long, structured, documents, such as specifications or
    > project proposals, its document organizational features make it a win.
    > Until OpenOffice has a good outliner, it is not a contender.
    >
    > (The good news is that the OO developers have acknowledged that a good
    > outliner is a high priority, and that the navigator stuff it now has is
    > not a substitute for this. The bad news is they say it will involve
    > some major work, so might take a while).
    >


    It's a real shame that the hegemony mentality did in Word Perfect.

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    / | \
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  3. Re: How unpopular is Ubuntu Linux, just take a look.

    On 2008-03-31, Hadron wrote:
    > Tim Smith writes:
    >
    >> In article ,
    >> Stephan Rose wrote:
    >>> Office?
    >>>
    >>> Sure, Ms Office has some neat features. But let's be realistic....who
    >>> needs a $300-$400 office package in order to write a letter to grandma?

    >>
    >> Actually, for home users, Office 2007 retail price, non-upgrade, is
    >> $149.95 for the software and licenses to use it on three computers,
    >> which is quite a bit less than $300-400.
    >>
    >> Office:mac 2008 is around $130 for a similar deal.
    >>
    >> That's a pretty darn good deal for Word and Excel. Excel paid for
    >> itself when I bought my house last year, and used it to get a very
    >> detailed understanding of my finances and what the consequences of
    >> various options would be. I could have done the same thing in
    >> OpenOffice, but much more awkwardly, due to the clumsier UI design and
    >> poor documentation of OO.

    >
    > You must be stupid Tim. Gregory Shearman announced to all that users are
    > not stupid and if you can't get the hang of the UI then your're dumb -
    > or words to that effect. Apparently honing a good, confirming UI for an


    For simple stuff, I am not sure I wouldn't agree with your attempt
    at a strawman. This is the sort of thing I have been doing with spreadsheets
    since before msoffice even existed. So I find the idea that OO isn't up
    to this ridiculously simple task beyond absurd.

    [deletia]

    Like I said... a job for Opus. Nevermind OO.

    --
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    / | \
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  4. Re: How unpopular is Ubuntu Linux, just take a look.


    "Daniel Willard" wrote in message
    news:rLSdnW8mZNVat23anZ2dnUVZ_j-dnZ2d@swcp.com...
    > nospam wrote:
    >> Ignoramus10476 wrote:
    >>> I used fedora for years and switched to Ubuntu. It is very well put
    >>> together and works much more smoothly than Fedora. It does have some
    >>> real benefits that accrue to users like me.

    >>
    >> I, too, agree that Ubuntu is more polished than the rest of the Linux
    >> distributions, but until big application makers such as Adobe and others
    >> support it with their first class applications, Linux is nothing,
    >> unfortunately

    >
    > I started with Ubuntu 6.06 LTS and moved to 7.10. Quite a difference for
    > the better. I have tried Knoppix for the KDE interface and think KDE has
    > some growing up to do. I would like Ubuntu to put KDE on a separate track
    > with its own repositories. I like Gnome and the Debian system for
    > maintenance. I think XP is the best OS that $MS has produced to date and I
    > still use it regularly but Ubuntu has become my favorite - warts and all!
    >
    > If the Linux community in general really wants to be accepted in the
    > business world, they are going to have to do some collaboration in some
    > areas of their development. I recently built a new system and was using on
    > board video for starters. I got Ubuntu 7.10 loaded and decided I needed a
    > graphics card to go with the flat screen monitor. I installed an EVGA
    > GeForce Nvidia 8500 GT. Took me about a week to get the new Nvidia driver
    > to load and function correctly. Nvidia was not the problem. 7.10 was. I
    > eventually succeeded with the help of the Nvidia forums. Had to purge
    > several packages that were already loaded before the new driver could
    > function properly. A look at the 8.04 repositories revealed the presence
    > of the new driver. Where does that leave 7.10 users? **** out of luck.
    > Just how long would it have taken the powers to be to have ported the new
    > driver to the 7.10 repositories? You folks are going to have to learn to
    > support what you write! Professional IT people will not jump on the latest
    > release ever! This seems to be a major problem in the Linux community in
    > general. Once it is solved, Linux will begin to be taken seriously by the
    > business community.
    >
    > If you really want to kick some MS butt, its Ready, Aim, Fire NOT Ready,
    > Fire, Aim!
    >
    > Thanks for a mighty fine product!
    >
    > Daniel


    Very well put



  5. Re: How unpopular is Ubuntu Linux, just take a look.

    JEDIDIAH writes:

    > On 2008-03-31, Hadron wrote:
    >> Tim Smith writes:
    >>
    >>> In article ,
    >>> Stephan Rose wrote:
    >>>> Office?
    >>>>
    >>>> Sure, Ms Office has some neat features. But let's be realistic....who
    >>>> needs a $300-$400 office package in order to write a letter to grandma?
    >>>
    >>> Actually, for home users, Office 2007 retail price, non-upgrade, is
    >>> $149.95 for the software and licenses to use it on three computers,
    >>> which is quite a bit less than $300-400.
    >>>
    >>> Office:mac 2008 is around $130 for a similar deal.
    >>>
    >>> That's a pretty darn good deal for Word and Excel. Excel paid for
    >>> itself when I bought my house last year, and used it to get a very
    >>> detailed understanding of my finances and what the consequences of
    >>> various options would be. I could have done the same thing in
    >>> OpenOffice, but much more awkwardly, due to the clumsier UI design and
    >>> poor documentation of OO.

    >>
    >> You must be stupid Tim. Gregory Shearman announced to all that users are
    >> not stupid and if you can't get the hang of the UI then your're dumb -
    >> or words to that effect. Apparently honing a good, confirming UI for an

    >
    > For simple stuff, I am not sure I wouldn't agree with your attempt
    > at a strawman. This is the sort of thing I have been doing with spreadsheets
    > since before msoffice even existed. So I find the idea that OO isn't up
    > to this ridiculously simple task beyond absurd.
    >
    > [deletia]
    >
    > Like I said... a job for Opus. Nevermind OO.


    I can dig a hole in the frozen tundra with a tin fork if I put my mind
    to it. Why I would bother when there's a jcb around the corner I don't
    know.

    --
    If Unicron had a tech spec card, his motto would be "That
    which does not become part of the One shall become Void."
    which is sort of a grand-scale, apocalyptic version of "I
    am what I eat."

  6. Re: How unpopular is Ubuntu Linux, just take a look.

    "JEDIDIAH" stated in post
    slrnfv1t4e.h4a.jedi@nomad.mishnet on 3/31/08 7:26 AM:

    > On 2008-03-30, rick wrote:
    >> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 10:31:16 -0500, Stephan Rose wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> But what about home users? Personally, I just use Gnucash and call it a
    >>> day. I can enter all my expenses and bills and categorize things the way
    >>> I want. And, it's got more graphs and reports to show with than I even
    >>> know what they all mean. About the only report I give a crap about is
    >>> the expense barchart so I can see where my expenses are and what may be
    >>> worth looking at for improvement....So even if this program doesn't have
    >>> all the features Quickbooks has, it already has more than I'll ever
    >>> need...

    >>
    >> A turbotax port would be nice, especially for us sole proprietors who are
    >> trying to run the biz as economically as possible.

    >
    > You really have no business using software for something like
    > that to begin with anyways...


    Why not?


    --
    Never stand between a dog and the hydrant. - John Peers


  7. Re: How unpopular is Ubuntu Linux, just take a look.

    "JEDIDIAH" stated in post
    slrnfv1tf2.h4a.jedi@nomad.mishnet on 3/31/08 7:32 AM:

    > On 2008-03-31, Hadron wrote:
    >> Tim Smith writes:
    >>
    >>> In article ,
    >>> Stephan Rose wrote:
    >>>> Office?
    >>>>
    >>>> Sure, Ms Office has some neat features. But let's be realistic....who
    >>>> needs a $300-$400 office package in order to write a letter to grandma?
    >>>
    >>> Actually, for home users, Office 2007 retail price, non-upgrade, is
    >>> $149.95 for the software and licenses to use it on three computers,
    >>> which is quite a bit less than $300-400.
    >>>
    >>> Office:mac 2008 is around $130 for a similar deal.
    >>>
    >>> That's a pretty darn good deal for Word and Excel. Excel paid for
    >>> itself when I bought my house last year, and used it to get a very
    >>> detailed understanding of my finances and what the consequences of
    >>> various options would be. I could have done the same thing in
    >>> OpenOffice, but much more awkwardly, due to the clumsier UI design and
    >>> poor documentation of OO.

    >>
    >> You must be stupid Tim. Gregory Shearman announced to all that users are
    >> not stupid and if you can't get the hang of the UI then your're dumb -
    >> or words to that effect. Apparently honing a good, confirming UI for an

    >
    > For simple stuff, I am not sure I wouldn't agree with your attempt
    > at a strawman. This is the sort of thing I have been doing with spreadsheets
    > since before msoffice even existed. So I find the idea that OO isn't up
    > to this ridiculously simple task beyond absurd.


    The question is not if Linux can or cannot be used for such... that is your
    straw man. The question is if Linux has a good and consistent UI for doing
    such... and more. It clearly does not.

    --
    Picture of a tuna milkshake: http://snipurl.com/f34z
    Feel free to ask for the recipe.




  8. Re: How unpopular is Ubuntu Linux, just take a look.

    On 2008-03-31, Hadron wrote:
    > JEDIDIAH writes:
    >
    >> On 2008-03-31, Hadron wrote:
    >>> Tim Smith writes:
    >>>
    >>>> In article ,
    >>>> Stephan Rose wrote:
    >>>>> Office?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Sure, Ms Office has some neat features. But let's be realistic....who
    >>>>> needs a $300-$400 office package in order to write a letter to grandma?
    >>>>
    >>>> Actually, for home users, Office 2007 retail price, non-upgrade, is
    >>>> $149.95 for the software and licenses to use it on three computers,
    >>>> which is quite a bit less than $300-400.
    >>>>
    >>>> Office:mac 2008 is around $130 for a similar deal.
    >>>>
    >>>> That's a pretty darn good deal for Word and Excel. Excel paid for
    >>>> itself when I bought my house last year, and used it to get a very
    >>>> detailed understanding of my finances and what the consequences of
    >>>> various options would be. I could have done the same thing in
    >>>> OpenOffice, but much more awkwardly, due to the clumsier UI design and
    >>>> poor documentation of OO.
    >>>
    >>> You must be stupid Tim. Gregory Shearman announced to all that users are
    >>> not stupid and if you can't get the hang of the UI then your're dumb -
    >>> or words to that effect. Apparently honing a good, confirming UI for an

    >>
    >> For simple stuff, I am not sure I wouldn't agree with your attempt
    >> at a strawman. This is the sort of thing I have been doing with spreadsheets
    >> since before msoffice even existed. So I find the idea that OO isn't up
    >> to this ridiculously simple task beyond absurd.
    >>
    >> [deletia]
    >>
    >> Like I said... a job for Opus. Nevermind OO.

    >
    > I can dig a hole in the frozen tundra with a tin fork if I put my mind
    > to it. Why I would bother when there's a jcb around the corner I don't
    > know.
    >


    This is no frozen tundra we are talking about here.

    Infact, if you insist on pushing this particular analogy than
    the rest of us here with a clue will just have to assume that you
    have never really come anywhere close to fully exploiting the
    capabilities of a modern spreadsheet.


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    / | \
    That way leads to lawyers and business megacorps and credit cards!

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  9. Re: How unpopular is Ubuntu Linux, just take a look.

    JEDIDIAH writes:

    > On 2008-03-31, Hadron wrote:
    >> JEDIDIAH writes:
    >>
    >>> On 2008-03-31, Hadron wrote:
    >>>> Tim Smith writes:
    >>>>
    >>>>> In article ,
    >>>>> Stephan Rose wrote:
    >>>>>> Office?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Sure, Ms Office has some neat features. But let's be realistic....who
    >>>>>> needs a $300-$400 office package in order to write a letter to grandma?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Actually, for home users, Office 2007 retail price, non-upgrade, is
    >>>>> $149.95 for the software and licenses to use it on three computers,
    >>>>> which is quite a bit less than $300-400.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Office:mac 2008 is around $130 for a similar deal.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> That's a pretty darn good deal for Word and Excel. Excel paid for
    >>>>> itself when I bought my house last year, and used it to get a very
    >>>>> detailed understanding of my finances and what the consequences of
    >>>>> various options would be. I could have done the same thing in
    >>>>> OpenOffice, but much more awkwardly, due to the clumsier UI design and
    >>>>> poor documentation of OO.
    >>>>
    >>>> You must be stupid Tim. Gregory Shearman announced to all that users are
    >>>> not stupid and if you can't get the hang of the UI then your're dumb -
    >>>> or words to that effect. Apparently honing a good, confirming UI for an
    >>>
    >>> For simple stuff, I am not sure I wouldn't agree with your attempt
    >>> at a strawman. This is the sort of thing I have been doing with spreadsheets
    >>> since before msoffice even existed. So I find the idea that OO isn't up
    >>> to this ridiculously simple task beyond absurd.
    >>>
    >>> [deletia]
    >>>
    >>> Like I said... a job for Opus. Nevermind OO.

    >>
    >> I can dig a hole in the frozen tundra with a tin fork if I put my mind
    >> to it. Why I would bother when there's a jcb around the corner I don't
    >> know.
    >>

    >
    > This is no frozen tundra we are talking about here.
    >
    > Infact, if you insist on pushing this particular analogy than
    > the rest of us here with a clue will just have to assume that you
    > have never really come anywhere close to fully exploiting the
    > capabilities of a modern spreadsheet.


    Why are you so fixated on a spreadsheet? We were talking general UI
    principles.

    And WTF a consistent UI being a good thing has to do with what features
    I do, and do not, personally use in my spreadsheets is really quite
    beyond me. You seem to be trying to erect a strawman here while showing
    off about your l33t spreadsheet usage.

    --
    "Its obvious Micoshaft sponsored frauds and net stalkers are now attacking individuals directly in organised gangs in linux advocacy newsgroups as predicted since it is known micoshaft is failing in the market place."
    7, COLA Linux "advocate" and nutjob.

  10. Re: How unpopular is Ubuntu Linux, just take a look.

    On 2008-03-31, Hadron wrote:
    > JEDIDIAH writes:
    >
    >> On 2008-03-31, Hadron wrote:
    >>> JEDIDIAH writes:
    >>>
    >>>> On 2008-03-31, Hadron wrote:
    >>>>> Tim Smith writes:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> In article ,
    >>>>>> Stephan Rose wrote:
    >>>>>>> Office?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Sure, Ms Office has some neat features. But let's be realistic....who
    >>>>>>> needs a $300-$400 office package in order to write a letter to grandma?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Actually, for home users, Office 2007 retail price, non-upgrade, is
    >>>>>> $149.95 for the software and licenses to use it on three computers,
    >>>>>> which is quite a bit less than $300-400.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Office:mac 2008 is around $130 for a similar deal.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> That's a pretty darn good deal for Word and Excel. Excel paid for
    >>>>>> itself when I bought my house last year, and used it to get a very
    >>>>>> detailed understanding of my finances and what the consequences of
    >>>>>> various options would be. I could have done the same thing in
    >>>>>> OpenOffice, but much more awkwardly, due to the clumsier UI design and
    >>>>>> poor documentation of OO.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> You must be stupid Tim. Gregory Shearman announced to all that users are
    >>>>> not stupid and if you can't get the hang of the UI then your're dumb -
    >>>>> or words to that effect. Apparently honing a good, confirming UI for an
    >>>>
    >>>> For simple stuff, I am not sure I wouldn't agree with your attempt
    >>>> at a strawman. This is the sort of thing I have been doing with spreadsheets
    >>>> since before msoffice even existed. So I find the idea that OO isn't up
    >>>> to this ridiculously simple task beyond absurd.
    >>>>
    >>>> [deletia]
    >>>>
    >>>> Like I said... a job for Opus. Nevermind OO.
    >>>
    >>> I can dig a hole in the frozen tundra with a tin fork if I put my mind
    >>> to it. Why I would bother when there's a jcb around the corner I don't
    >>> know.
    >>>

    >>
    >> This is no frozen tundra we are talking about here.
    >>
    >> Infact, if you insist on pushing this particular analogy than
    >> the rest of us here with a clue will just have to assume that you
    >> have never really come anywhere close to fully exploiting the
    >> capabilities of a modern spreadsheet.

    >
    > Why are you so fixated on a spreadsheet? We were talking general UI


    ...cause that is the PARTICULAR TOOL we happen to be talking about
    here.

    Today we are not discussing the industrial engineering of ditch
    digging or cheetos production.

    > principles.
    >
    > And WTF a consistent UI being a good thing has to do with what features


    A "consistent UI" for the most part will not address the vast
    majority of what a spreadsheet user does since it is distinct from
    many other things.

    > I do, and do not, personally use in my spreadsheets is really quite
    > beyond me. You seem to be trying to erect a strawman here while showing
    > off about your l33t spreadsheet usage.
    >


    You are discussing a tool and then trying to ignore what it's used
    for. It's like fixating on the few menus in Gimp or Photoshop that are
    common with any other application and ignoring the rest.

    Shallow use should not be inconvenienced by any change of platform.

    --
    NO! There are no CODICILES of Fight Club! |||
    / | \
    That way leads to lawyers and business megacorps and credit cards!

    Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
    ----------------------------------------------------------
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  11. Re: How unpopular is Ubuntu Linux, just take a look.

    JEDIDIAH writes:

    > On 2008-03-31, Hadron wrote:
    >> JEDIDIAH writes:
    >>
    >>> On 2008-03-31, Hadron wrote:
    >>>> JEDIDIAH writes:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On 2008-03-31, Hadron wrote:
    >>>>>> Tim Smith writes:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> In article ,
    >>>>>>> Stephan Rose wrote:
    >>>>>>>> Office?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Sure, Ms Office has some neat features. But let's be realistic....who
    >>>>>>>> needs a $300-$400 office package in order to write a letter to grandma?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Actually, for home users, Office 2007 retail price, non-upgrade, is
    >>>>>>> $149.95 for the software and licenses to use it on three computers,
    >>>>>>> which is quite a bit less than $300-400.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Office:mac 2008 is around $130 for a similar deal.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> That's a pretty darn good deal for Word and Excel. Excel paid for
    >>>>>>> itself when I bought my house last year, and used it to get a very
    >>>>>>> detailed understanding of my finances and what the consequences of
    >>>>>>> various options would be. I could have done the same thing in
    >>>>>>> OpenOffice, but much more awkwardly, due to the clumsier UI design and
    >>>>>>> poor documentation of OO.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> You must be stupid Tim. Gregory Shearman announced to all that users are
    >>>>>> not stupid and if you can't get the hang of the UI then your're dumb -
    >>>>>> or words to that effect. Apparently honing a good, confirming UI for an
    >>>>>
    >>>>> For simple stuff, I am not sure I wouldn't agree with your attempt
    >>>>> at a strawman. This is the sort of thing I have been doing with spreadsheets
    >>>>> since before msoffice even existed. So I find the idea that OO isn't up
    >>>>> to this ridiculously simple task beyond absurd.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> [deletia]
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Like I said... a job for Opus. Nevermind OO.
    >>>>
    >>>> I can dig a hole in the frozen tundra with a tin fork if I put my mind
    >>>> to it. Why I would bother when there's a jcb around the corner I don't
    >>>> know.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> This is no frozen tundra we are talking about here.
    >>>
    >>> Infact, if you insist on pushing this particular analogy than
    >>> the rest of us here with a clue will just have to assume that you
    >>> have never really come anywhere close to fully exploiting the
    >>> capabilities of a modern spreadsheet.

    >>
    >> Why are you so fixated on a spreadsheet? We were talking general UI

    >
    > ...cause that is the PARTICULAR TOOL we happen to be talking about
    > here.
    >
    > Today we are not discussing the industrial engineering of ditch
    > digging or cheetos production.
    >
    >> principles.
    >>
    >> And WTF a consistent UI being a good thing has to do with what features

    >
    > A "consistent UI" for the most part will not address the vast
    > majority of what a spreadsheet user does since it is distinct from
    > many other things.


    I know. Which is why I wonder why you are now trying to talk about
    spreadsheet functionality.

    >
    >> I do, and do not, personally use in my spreadsheets is really quite
    >> beyond me. You seem to be trying to erect a strawman here while showing
    >> off about your l33t spreadsheet usage.
    >>

    >
    > You are discussing a tool and then trying to ignore what it's used
    > for. It's like fixating on the few menus in Gimp or Photoshop that are
    > common with any other application and ignoring the rest.


    Oh dear. Another person who doesn't understand what consistent UI
    means. You dont really think we think they all have exactly the same
    Menus do you? With no specifics? Oh my dear god.

    > Shallow use should not be inconvenienced by any change of
    > platform.


    You've become tiresome again. You clearly are lost once more and not
    worth discussing things with.

    (ps great .sig below - it really is Vista all over again in COLA!)

    --
    It explains a lot. I've not heard of anyone I know, anywhere, buying XP,
    and I've not seen it sold whilst I've been in any shops.
    comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they put the lunacy in advocacy

  12. Re: How unpopular is Ubuntu Linux, just take a look.

    On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:45:45 -0700, Snit
    wrote:

    >"Hadron" stated in post
    >fsp3dt$c83$3@registered.motzarella.org on 3/30/08 3:15 PM:
    >
    >> Stephan Rose writes:
    >>
    >>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 22:04:10 +0100, dennis@home wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> "Canuck57" wrote in message
    >>>> news:rjRHj.139623$pM4.132386@pd7urf1no...
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> OpenOffice is safer, as even saves in PDF without the need to purchase
    >>>>> Adobe. More people have viewed and vetted the code too. More bucks in
    >>>>> your pocket.
    >>>>
    >>>> M$ office saves in pdf without having to buy Adobe.. where did you dream
    >>>> that one up from?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> He said OpenOffice saves in PDF without having to buy Adobe, not MS
    >>> Office.

    >>


    Semantics aside you DO have to buy something. The OS to start with,
    then either Adobe or Orifice.


    >> Err, yes. Indicating what? Yes .... thats right. That its not possible
    >> in Office. When it is.
    >>>
    >>> Which actually, is very correct.
    >>>
    >>> "Export to PDF" is right here in my OO file menu.
    >>>
    >>> Of course, I also do have global PDF printing support available to any
    >>> application.
    >>>
    >>> So you see, I don't need to worry about compatibility issues when sending
    >>> documents to someone else. I send a PDF.

    >>
    >> All of which can be done from Office for free too.


    After you buy Office...

    >>
    >> Your point is?

    >
    >Heck, on OS X the PDF feature is built in. On Windows you need to get a


    After you buy OS X...


    >freeware print driver. Neither Linux not Windows have the PDF Services
    >that OS X has - so I suppose if PDF support is the comparison basis then OS
    >X beats both Linux and Windows.



  13. Re: How unpopular is Ubuntu Linux, just take a look.


    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Office?
    >>>>
    >>>> Sure, Ms Office has some neat features. But let's be realistic....who
    >>>> needs a $300-$400 office package in order to write a letter to grandma?
    >>>
    >>> Huh? What are you waffling on about? O paid significantly less than that
    >>> and used word/excel for all sorts of things same as I now do with the
    >>> inferior OO equivalents.

    >>
    >> I'm waffling about the retail price if I go to a place like amazon.com
    >> for example for a retail, non-upgrade version.

    >
    >Oh, not the "real price" most pay.


    Is that as in /steal it/?
    OO doesn't turn average people into below average criminals.
    >
    >>

    This is getting altogether too long.


  14. Re: How unpopular is Ubuntu Linux, just take a look.

    Stephan Rose wrote:
    > On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:56:34 -0600, Daniel Willard wrote:
    >
    >> nospam wrote:
    >>> Ignoramus10476 wrote:
    >>>> I used fedora for years and switched to Ubuntu. It is very well put
    >>>> together and works much more smoothly than Fedora. It does have some
    >>>> real benefits that accrue to users like me.
    >>> I, too, agree that Ubuntu is more polished than the rest of the Linux
    >>> distributions, but until big application makers such as Adobe and
    >>> others support it with their first class applications, Linux is
    >>> nothing, unfortunately

    >> I started with Ubuntu 6.06 LTS and moved to 7.10. Quite a difference for
    >> the better. I have tried Knoppix for the KDE interface and think KDE has
    >> some growing up to do. I would like Ubuntu to put KDE on a separate
    >> track with its own repositories. I like Gnome and the Debian system for
    >> maintenance. I think XP is the best OS that $MS has produced to date and
    >> I still use it regularly but Ubuntu has become my favorite - warts and
    >> all!
    >>
    >> If the Linux community in general really wants to be accepted in the
    >> business world, they are going to have to do some collaboration in some
    >> areas of their development. I recently built a new system and was using
    >> on board video for starters. I got Ubuntu 7.10 loaded and decided I
    >> needed a graphics card to go with the flat screen monitor. I installed
    >> an EVGA GeForce Nvidia 8500 GT. Took me about a week to get the new
    >> Nvidia driver to load and function correctly. Nvidia was not the
    >> problem. 7.10 was. I eventually succeeded with the help of the Nvidia
    >> forums. Had to purge several packages that were already loaded before
    >> the new driver could function properly. A look at the 8.04 repositories
    >> revealed the presence of the new driver. Where does that leave 7.10
    >> users? **** out of luck. Just how long would it have taken the powers to
    >> be to have ported the new driver to the 7.10 repositories? You folks are
    >> going to have to learn to support what you write! Professional IT people
    >> will not jump on the latest release ever! This seems to be a major
    >> problem in the Linux community in general. Once it is solved, Linux will
    >> begin to be taken seriously by the business community.

    >
    > Thing is, where does one draw the line? Who decides what gets backported
    > and what not? Where does it go too far? That line is going to be drawn
    > differently from person to person.
    >
    > The older versions are supported, but generally only with of security
    > updates to the packages they contain.
    >
    > There is a backports repository that can be enabled via the software
    > sources menu but I can't say if that would have made the newer driver
    > package available. Never tried...I'm generally already running the newer
    > Ubuntu releases before they go final. =)
    >


    That was my point - Professional IT people will not run beta ware. I
    thought I did a fairly comprehensive search of the archives for an
    updated driver in .deb format. I was desperate but now am confident due
    to the trial by fire. I learned an amazing amount about Ubuntu in a
    short time and am much better off for the experience.

    Daniel


  15. Re: How unpopular is Ubuntu Linux, just take a look.

    Hadron wrote:
    > Daniel Willard writes:
    >
    >> nospam wrote:
    >>> Ignoramus10476 wrote:
    >>>> I used fedora for years and switched to Ubuntu. It is very well put
    >>>> together and works much more smoothly than Fedora. It does have some
    >>>> real benefits that accrue to users like me.
    >>> I, too, agree that Ubuntu is more polished than the rest of the
    >>> Linux distributions, but until big application makers such as Adobe
    >>> and others support it with their first class applications, Linux is
    >>> nothing, unfortunately

    >> I started with Ubuntu 6.06 LTS and moved to 7.10. Quite a difference
    >> for the better. I have tried Knoppix for the KDE interface and think
    >> KDE has some growing up to do. I would like Ubuntu to put KDE on a
    >> separate track with its own repositories. I like Gnome and the Debian
    >> system for maintenance. I think XP is the best OS that $MS has
    >> produced to date and I still use it regularly but Ubuntu has become my
    >> favorite - warts and all!
    >>
    >> If the Linux community in general really wants to be accepted in the
    >> business world, they are going to have to do some collaboration in
    >> some areas of their development. I recently built a new system and was
    >> using on board video for starters. I got Ubuntu 7.10 loaded and
    >> decided I needed a graphics card to go with the flat screen monitor. I
    >> installed an EVGA GeForce Nvidia 8500 GT. Took me about a week to get
    >> the new Nvidia driver to load and function correctly. Nvidia was not
    >> the problem. 7.10 was. I eventually succeeded with the help of the
    >> Nvidia forums. Had to purge several packages that were already loaded
    >> before the new driver could function properly. A look at the 8.04

    >
    > Yup - a major problem. Once which people in COLA will deny
    > unfortunately. The guys in the Ubuntu group are generally more aware as
    > they see the issues come up there.
    >
    >> repositories revealed the presence of the new driver. Where does that
    >> leave 7.10 users? **** out of luck. Just how long would it have taken
    >> the powers to be to have ported the new driver to the 7.10
    >> repositories? You folks are going to have to learn to support what you
    >> write! Professional IT people will not jump on the latest release
    >> ever! This seems to be a major problem in the Linux community in
    >> general. Once it is solved, Linux will begin to be taken seriously by
    >> the business community.

    >
    > What was the issue here? Did "envy" not take care of it?
    >
    >> If you really want to kick some MS butt, its Ready, Aim, Fire NOT
    >> Ready, Fire, Aim!
    >>
    >> Thanks for a mighty fine product!
    >>
    >> Daniel

    >
    > Good post.
    >


    I did consider Envy due to some posts in the Ubuntu Forums but I decided
    not to add a third set of variables to the process. In the end, the
    education is priceless!

    Daniel

  16. Re: How unpopular is Ubuntu Linux, just take a look.

    User wrote:
    > Daniel Willard wrote:
    > I recently built a new system and was using
    >> on board video for starters. I got Ubuntu 7.10 loaded and decided I
    >> needed a graphics card to go with the flat screen monitor. I installed
    >> an EVGA GeForce Nvidia 8500 GT. Took me about a week to get the new
    >> Nvidia driver to load and function correctly. Nvidia was not the
    >> problem. 7.10 was. I eventually succeeded with the help of the Nvidia
    >> forums. Had to purge several packages that were already loaded before
    >> the new driver could function properly. A look at the 8.04
    >> repositories revealed the presence of the new driver. Where does that
    >> leave 7.10 users? **** out of luck. Just how long would it have taken
    >> the powers to be to have ported the new driver to the 7.10
    >> repositories? You folks are going to have to learn to support what you
    >> write! Professional IT people will not jump on the latest release
    >> ever! This seems to be a major problem in the Linux community in
    >> general. Once it is solved, Linux will begin to be taken seriously by
    >> the business community.
    >>
    >> If you really want to kick some MS butt, its Ready, Aim, Fire NOT
    >> Ready, Fire, Aim!
    >>
    >> Thanks for a mighty fine product!
    >>
    >> Daniel

    >
    > The new driver is not necessary. I just installed the exact same card in
    > a biostar tforce 6100 with on-board nvidia video last week and it went
    > without a hitch. First I disabled the old driver in the restricted
    > drivers manager, shut down, installed the new card, entered the bios and
    > disabled the onboard video ram to reclaim my 128MB, rebooted back into
    > gutsy, enabled the restricted driver, rebooted. It was that easy. Works
    > perfect. glxgears 6685 fps in the little window and 424 fps full screen
    > @1680x1050, opteron 165 @2.7GHz.
    > The 8500 GT chipset is well over a year old so there is no reason that
    > the restricted driver available in 7.10 would not support it. Maybe your
    > onboard driver was the older nvidia-glx driver or something else and you
    > didn't disable it or uninstall it first? I learned the hard way years
    > ago with nvidia drivers in windows that you always remove your old
    > drivers first and then plug-n-pray.


    You are absolutely correct! I am a newbie to Ubuntu and am paranoid
    about removing things I don't fully understand. I thought I had the
    nvidia-glx-new driver installed but could not get past the "none" button
    on the System-Preferences-Appearance-Visual Effects tab. Obviously I
    still had some config issues with the old stuff. That is what sent me in
    search of the new driver. I have learned a great deal in the process.

    Daniel

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