Another good reason for switching. - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on Another good reason for switching. - Ubuntu ; On 2008-03-13, Harold Stevens wrote: > In ray: > > [Snip...] > >> Linux help, I'll be glad to assist > > I have my 80+ year old parents on Linux from a machine so infested with > Doze malware ...

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Thread: Another good reason for switching.

  1. Re: Another good reason for switching.

    On 2008-03-13, Harold Stevens wrote:
    > In <63t0gjF28nt3nU1@mid.individual.net> ray:
    >
    > [Snip...]
    >
    >> Linux help, I'll be glad to assist

    >
    > I have my 80+ year old parents on Linux from a machine so infested with
    > Doze malware even local PC repair shops literally couldn't fix it. Took
    > me a couple of hours to get SuSE Linux and browsing/email on it.
    >
    > (4 or so years now; I don't think you could PAY them to do Doze again)


    Ms Penguin has just come in and she says, when people understand Linux, and
    have used it everyday for awhile they get to love it.

    > I suspect (like my parents) they're amazed at how reliable Linux is--if
    > not so transparently easy to use, they don't care it's Linux.


    You mean, it works in a slightly different way? One just has to spend a
    small amount of time to understand the differences. Rather like accents in
    language.

    >
    > So much for wintrolls whining about "a difficult hobby OS" nonsense.
    >

    I have a "stable" machine which I do my serious work on and another which is
    a hobby machine. Anything concerning Linux is tried out on it, for I have
    the freedom to do this. MS Windows says One flavour and you will have to pay
    for another.

    Linux is continues to develop is all sorts of directions. It is moving alot
    faster than the public conception of what it is, and who should use it

  2. Re: Another good reason for switching.



    "Gordon" wrote in message
    news:63uft7F1g179rU1@mid.individual.net...
    > On 2008-03-13, Harold Stevens wrote:
    >> In <63t0gjF28nt3nU1@mid.individual.net> ray:
    >>
    >> [Snip...]
    >>
    >>> Linux help, I'll be glad to assist

    >>
    >> I have my 80+ year old parents on Linux from a machine so infested with
    >> Doze malware even local PC repair shops literally couldn't fix it. Took
    >> me a couple of hours to get SuSE Linux and browsing/email on it.


    My 87 father uses Vista for email, web and MSN.
    He likes it because he can just open his notebook and away he goes in
    seconds (odd how older people can't wait a few seconds for something to
    happen and then take 20 minutes to type a four line email). He also has
    linux, but he doesn't know as his CCTV system is using it, but he has
    probably forgotten that he has CCTV anyway as I appear to be the only one to
    access it over the web.

    >>
    >> (4 or so years now; I don't think you could PAY them to do Doze again)


    When people get old they find it hard to change.. it would be cruel to do it
    to them now.. don't install rotating cubes and stuff like that. They
    probably can't see it and probably can't use a mouse well enough the cope
    with stuff like shaky windows either.

    >
    > Ms Penguin has just come in and she says, when people understand Linux,
    > and
    > have used it everyday for awhile they get to love it.


    Its a bit of software, a tool to do a job, you throw it away and use
    something else if it does the job better. Any attachment to a bit of
    software is plain stupid or a sign of age. If you "love" an OS you don't
    understand computers or life.

    >
    >> I suspect (like my parents) they're amazed at how reliable Linux is--if
    >> not so transparently easy to use, they don't care it's Linux.

    >
    > You mean, it works in a slightly different way? One just has to spend a
    > small amount of time to understand the differences. Rather like accents in
    > language.


    Why would they need to know the difference? Do they need to use different
    systems? Just stick a computer with an email, web and chat icon and tell
    them how to use the apps.. no knowledge of the OS required.

    >> So much for wintrolls whining about "a difficult hobby OS" nonsense.
    >>

    > I have a "stable" machine which I do my serious work on and another which
    > is
    > a hobby machine. Anything concerning Linux is tried out on it, for I have
    > the freedom to do this. MS Windows says One flavour and you will have to
    > pay
    > for another.


    They don't actually, if you just want to trial something on windows its
    free, even with vista.
    Just don't expect to be able to use it forever without paying. If you buy a
    "development pack" you get all the windows to use if you want. Or just
    download one of the free tools if you want free development on an existing
    windows platform.

    >
    > Linux is continues to develop is all sorts of directions. It is moving
    > alot
    > faster than the public conception of what it is, and who should use it


    One of its problems as well as one of its advantages.
    If you are one of the few that needs cutting edge its good, if you are one
    of the many that don't its bad.
    There are only so many things people want to do and no really new stuff the
    masses want to do has appeared for years.

    When a new way of working arrives then change will be needed and may be
    good.. until then windows and linux are both fighting over trivia. Windows
    needs to concentrate on being more secure, linux on being easier to install
    and open source apps need to be a bit better polished. It would help if
    there weren't so many linux distros, each with a different installer.

    The other thing linux needs to watch are technologies like multi-touch as
    they could cause a big change in the way people work, and its what people
    want to do that matters not the OS, if you can't do what you want you just
    use a different OS there is no big deal.


  3. Re: Another good reason for switching.

    caver1 writes:

    > Harold Stevens wrote:
    >> In <63t0gjF28nt3nU1@mid.individual.net> ray:
    >>
    >> [Snip...]
    >>
    >>> My response is simply that I don't do MS

    >>
    >> When I was at work, I had plenty of *nix tasks, but still had engineers
    >> literally begging me or anybody to fix some silly M$ desktop BS. It got
    >> so bad, I put a notice on my wall: "I Don't Do Windows--Please See Your
    >> Professional Well-Compensated Corporate IT Staff" or somesuch.
    >>
    >>> Linux help, I'll be glad to assist

    >>
    >> I have my 80+ year old parents on Linux from a machine so infested with
    >> Doze malware even local PC repair shops literally couldn't fix it. Took
    >> me a couple of hours to get SuSE Linux and browsing/email on it.
    >>
    >> (4 or so years now; I don't think you could PAY them to do Doze again)
    >>
    >>> I now admin nine Linux seats (public access) at the local library

    >>
    >> Thanks for taking your time to help local library patrons; it's vital.
    >>
    >> I suspect (like my parents) they're amazed at how reliable Linux
    >> is--if not so transparently easy to use, they don't care it's Linux.
    >>
    >> So much for wintrolls whining about "a difficult hobby OS" nonsense.
    >>

    >
    >
    > That's like my youngest. Because of school she is use to using MS and
    > MACs. At home I've got her using Ubuntu. Her comments are how much
    > faster and easier Linux programs are to use.


    I do not believe you. How old is your "youngest" and which programs does
    she use that she maintains are so much "easier" and "faster"?

  4. Re: Another good reason for switching.

    DanS wrote:
    > "kmbfha" wrote in
    > news:dReCj.72541$I5.54562@fe09.news.easynews.com:
    >
    >> That's because in libraires the patrons either use the web browser or
    >> a proprietary program
    >> for searching. The computers are normally set up as kiosks andt they
    >> have no conatct with
    >> the actual workings of the computer (hardware or software). The
    >> computers are on and
    >> ready to go for them when they siit down. Of course they don't know
    >> what OS they're
    >> using becasue they never see anything but what they're allowed to see.

    >
    > And what is different between this and much of the corporate world, being a
    > user, and nothing more. They can turn on the PC, use the s/w, set up some
    > personal preferences, but that's about it.



    That's talking about maybe 85-90% of all computer users. MS catered to
    these users and did a good job of it. Now that they have control they
    want more.(MS is not alone in this)
    Linux did not cater to this aspect of the computing market. Linux is
    starting to and doing it better than MS mostly because Linux does not
    want to control me.
    That is why I believe that Most EULAs are bad in that they are one
    sided. Now we have to have one sided EULAs on hardware?
    The only computer that I have owned that I didn't build was my first
    one. That is the way it will stay as I will not have any corporation
    controlling me for their profit.
    EULAs in the computer world over all are wrong in that they want to give
    complete control to one side of a so called contract.
    caver1

  5. Re: Another good reason for switching.

    Gordon wrote:
    > On 2008-03-13, kmbfha wrote:
    >> "caver1" wrote in message
    >> news:47d92399$0$1097$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
    >>> The longer I use Ubuntu the more I hate using Windows machinces. I still
    >>> have family that I have to help out on Windows.
    >>> The other day my oldest daughter bought a new Compaq Amd x2 3600. Asked me
    >>> to set it up for her. Wasn't hard had Vista installed. It is very slow
    >>> compared to my Amd x2 with Gutsy.
    >>> Then the setup program started to run. First the EULA for Vista. Okay,
    >>> expected. Clicked I accept. Of course I made my daughter do the clicking.
    >>> THEN the unexpected an EULA from HP that she had to accept to use the
    >>> computer she bought!??? Yes an EULA for the hardware!
    >>> Now I think I've seen it all.
    >>> I've talked her into letting me install Wubi and Unbuntu so her and her
    >>> husband can try out Linux.
    >>> caver1

    >> So your blaming Microsoft because HP has an EULA agreement on the machine.
    >> Yes, EULA agreements for pc's have been around for at least eight years. And
    >> by bypassing that and installing
    >> another operating system on it you just eliminated any support from
    >> HP/Compaq on your daughters brand new computer..
    >>

    > Yes, but since the OP seems to be providing the support does it matter? In
    > fact it might be an advantage.
    >



    As I have stated in another reply. Over all EULAs in the computer world
    are generally one sided and no good for the consumer. Now that the
    hardware industry is doing the same I feel sorry for those that rely on
    such business entities. Because by doing so they want you to sign away
    all your rights and rely upon the suppose honesty of a corporation.
    While at the same time removing any liability that they have for their
    products.
    Yes this is all part of the MS mind set.
    caver1

  6. Re: Another good reason for switching.

    Hadron wrote:
    > caver1 writes:
    >
    >> Harold Stevens wrote:
    >>> In <63t0gjF28nt3nU1@mid.individual.net> ray:
    >>>
    >>> [Snip...]
    >>>
    >>>> My response is simply that I don't do MS
    >>> When I was at work, I had plenty of *nix tasks, but still had engineers
    >>> literally begging me or anybody to fix some silly M$ desktop BS. It got
    >>> so bad, I put a notice on my wall: "I Don't Do Windows--Please See Your
    >>> Professional Well-Compensated Corporate IT Staff" or somesuch.
    >>>
    >>>> Linux help, I'll be glad to assist
    >>> I have my 80+ year old parents on Linux from a machine so infested with
    >>> Doze malware even local PC repair shops literally couldn't fix it. Took
    >>> me a couple of hours to get SuSE Linux and browsing/email on it.
    >>>
    >>> (4 or so years now; I don't think you could PAY them to do Doze again)
    >>>
    >>>> I now admin nine Linux seats (public access) at the local library
    >>> Thanks for taking your time to help local library patrons; it's vital.
    >>>
    >>> I suspect (like my parents) they're amazed at how reliable Linux
    >>> is--if not so transparently easy to use, they don't care it's Linux.
    >>>
    >>> So much for wintrolls whining about "a difficult hobby OS" nonsense.
    >>>

    >>
    >> That's like my youngest. Because of school she is use to using MS and
    >> MACs. At home I've got her using Ubuntu. Her comments are how much
    >> faster and easier Linux programs are to use.

    >
    > I do not believe you. How old is your "youngest" and which programs does
    > she use that she maintains are so much "easier" and "faster"?




    You don't believe me?
    Why should I believe anything you say. Not everyone who uses a system
    maintains it. I do maintain systems and I find Linux easier and faster.
    Age has nothing to do with it. My oldest is a MS die hard.
    How old are you?
    Maybe she/we do not agree with you but that does not make us liars.
    I also know many youngsters who maintain many systems and know as much
    as us if not much more than You.
    caver1

  7. Re: Another good reason for switching.

    caver1 writes:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >> caver1 writes:
    >>
    >>> Harold Stevens wrote:
    >>>> In <63t0gjF28nt3nU1@mid.individual.net> ray:
    >>>>
    >>>> [Snip...]
    >>>>
    >>>>> My response is simply that I don't do MS
    >>>> When I was at work, I had plenty of *nix tasks, but still had engineers
    >>>> literally begging me or anybody to fix some silly M$ desktop BS. It got
    >>>> so bad, I put a notice on my wall: "I Don't Do Windows--Please See Your
    >>>> Professional Well-Compensated Corporate IT Staff" or somesuch.
    >>>>
    >>>>> Linux help, I'll be glad to assist
    >>>> I have my 80+ year old parents on Linux from a machine so infested with
    >>>> Doze malware even local PC repair shops literally couldn't fix it. Took
    >>>> me a couple of hours to get SuSE Linux and browsing/email on it.
    >>>>
    >>>> (4 or so years now; I don't think you could PAY them to do Doze again)
    >>>>
    >>>>> I now admin nine Linux seats (public access) at the local library
    >>>> Thanks for taking your time to help local library patrons; it's vital.
    >>>>
    >>>> I suspect (like my parents) they're amazed at how reliable Linux
    >>>> is--if not so transparently easy to use, they don't care it's Linux.
    >>>>
    >>>> So much for wintrolls whining about "a difficult hobby OS" nonsense.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> That's like my youngest. Because of school she is use to using MS and
    >>> MACs. At home I've got her using Ubuntu. Her comments are how much
    >>> faster and easier Linux programs are to use.

    >>
    >> I do not believe you. How old is your "youngest" and which programs does
    >> she use that she maintains are so much "easier" and "faster"?

    >
    >
    >
    > You don't believe me?


    No.

    > Why should I believe anything you say. Not everyone who uses a system


    I'm not asking you to.

    > maintains it. I do maintain systems and I find Linux easier and
    > faster.


    I'm not talking about you. This is one of the reasons I do not believe
    you. You keep spouting nonsense.

    > Age has nothing to do with it. My oldest is a MS die hard.


    Then why mention your youngest?

    And why do you not list these programs which are so much easier and
    faster? I never heard of a young girl noticing "easier and faster" -
    only "different" as a rule when using SW. But seriously, which
    applications are so much "easier and faster" under Linux that your youngest
    daughter uses?

    > How old are you?


    Why do you ask? You seem obsessed with age. But I graduated almost 20
    years ago if thats any help.

    > Maybe she/we do not agree with you but that does not make us liars.


    I am saying I do not believe your story. I am merely asking "which"
    programs did your youngest daughter find so much "easier and faster". I
    am certainly not asking you to agree with anything. I find certain
    things on Linux faster and more stable. Rarely easier.

    > I also know many youngsters who maintain many systems and know as much
    > as us if not much more than You.


    I don't know what you're talking about. We are not talking about
    maintaining systems or youngsters in general. Or about how much they
    know.

    But let my explain :: your story sounds like a load of made up bull****
    to me in order to curry favour with the Linux hard core. I'm quite
    willing to believe I am wrong on this - possibly if you list the
    particular programs which your younger daughter finds so much "easier
    and faster" then I will alter my opinion. Until then it sounds like a
    load of hogwash to me.

  8. Re: Another good reason for switching.

    Hadron wrote:

    >
    > But let my explain :: your story sounds like a load of made up bull****
    > to me in order to curry favour with the Linux hard core. I'm quite
    > willing to believe I am wrong on this - possibly if you list the
    > particular programs which your younger daughter finds so much "easier
    > and faster" then I will alter my opinion. Until then it sounds like a
    > load of hogwash to me.


    You sure do like to stir up ****, don't you Hadron? You make such a
    big deal out of a perfectly normal statement when a father refers to one of
    his children - "the youngest". You're obviously here to do nothing but
    disrupt and in the same breathe accuse that behavior as being "COLA"
    behavior. You're proving to be one sick asshole and I can understand why in
    COLA most have developed such a disdain towards you.

    Cheers.

    --
    The world can't afford the rich.

    Q: What OS is built for lusers?
    A: Which one requires running lusermgr.msc to create them?

    Francis (Frank) adds a new "gadget" to his Vista box ...
    Download it here: http://tinyurl.com/2hnof6



  9. Re: Another good reason for switching.

    Hadron wrote:
    > caver1 writes:
    >
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>> caver1 writes:
    >>>
    >>>> Harold Stevens wrote:
    >>>>> In <63t0gjF28nt3nU1@mid.individual.net> ray:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> [Snip...]
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> My response is simply that I don't do MS
    >>>>> When I was at work, I had plenty of *nix tasks, but still had engineers
    >>>>> literally begging me or anybody to fix some silly M$ desktop BS. It got
    >>>>> so bad, I put a notice on my wall: "I Don't Do Windows--Please See Your
    >>>>> Professional Well-Compensated Corporate IT Staff" or somesuch.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Linux help, I'll be glad to assist
    >>>>> I have my 80+ year old parents on Linux from a machine so infested with
    >>>>> Doze malware even local PC repair shops literally couldn't fix it. Took
    >>>>> me a couple of hours to get SuSE Linux and browsing/email on it.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> (4 or so years now; I don't think you could PAY them to do Doze again)
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> I now admin nine Linux seats (public access) at the local library
    >>>>> Thanks for taking your time to help local library patrons; it's vital.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I suspect (like my parents) they're amazed at how reliable Linux
    >>>>> is--if not so transparently easy to use, they don't care it's Linux.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> So much for wintrolls whining about "a difficult hobby OS" nonsense.
    >>>>>
    >>>> That's like my youngest. Because of school she is use to using MS and
    >>>> MACs. At home I've got her using Ubuntu. Her comments are how much
    >>>> faster and easier Linux programs are to use.
    >>> I do not believe you. How old is your "youngest" and which programs does
    >>> she use that she maintains are so much "easier" and "faster"?

    >>
    >>
    >> You don't believe me?

    >
    > No.
    >
    >> Why should I believe anything you say. Not everyone who uses a system

    >
    > I'm not asking you to.
    >
    >> maintains it. I do maintain systems and I find Linux easier and
    >> faster.

    >
    > I'm not talking about you. This is one of the reasons I do not believe
    > you. You keep spouting nonsense.
    >
    >> Age has nothing to do with it. My oldest is a MS die hard.

    >
    > Then why mention your youngest?
    >
    > And why do you not list these programs which are so much easier and
    > faster? I never heard of a young girl noticing "easier and faster" -
    > only "different" as a rule when using SW. But seriously, which
    > applications are so much "easier and faster" under Linux that your youngest
    > daughter uses?
    >
    >> How old are you?

    >
    > Why do you ask? You seem obsessed with age. But I graduated almost 20
    > years ago if thats any help.
    >
    >> Maybe she/we do not agree with you but that does not make us liars.

    >
    > I am saying I do not believe your story. I am merely asking "which"
    > programs did your youngest daughter find so much "easier and faster". I
    > am certainly not asking you to agree with anything. I find certain
    > things on Linux faster and more stable. Rarely easier.
    >
    >> I also know many youngsters who maintain many systems and know as much
    >> as us if not much more than You.

    >
    > I don't know what you're talking about. We are not talking about
    > maintaining systems or youngsters in general. Or about how much they
    > know.
    >
    > But let my explain :: your story sounds like a load of made up bull****
    > to me in order to curry favour with the Linux hard core. I'm quite
    > willing to believe I am wrong on this - possibly if you list the
    > particular programs which your younger daughter finds so much "easier
    > and faster" then I will alter my opinion. Until then it sounds like a
    > load of hogwash to me.



    graduated from what nursery school? Youngster.
    You're the one that brought age as being a factor now you are doubting
    you girls as being capable?
    Hell I find the OS to be faster and easier to use.
    As far as your opinion I'll let this newsgroup decide that.
    caver1

  10. Re: Another good reason for switching.

    dennis@home wrote:

    > The other thing linux needs to watch are technologies like multi-touch as
    > they could cause a big change in the way people work, and its what people
    > want to do that matters not the OS, if you can't do what you want you just
    > use a different OS there is no big deal.


    Like this perhaps?

    http://tinyurl.com/28v4tg

    Cheers.

    --
    The world can't afford the rich.

    Q: What OS is built for lusers?
    A: Which one requires running lusermgr.msc to create them?

    Francis (Frank) adds a new "gadget" to his Vista box ...
    Download it here: http://tinyurl.com/2hnof6



  11. Re: Another good reason for switching.

    NoStop writes:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> But let my explain :: your story sounds like a load of made up bull****
    >> to me in order to curry favour with the Linux hard core. I'm quite
    >> willing to believe I am wrong on this - possibly if you list the
    >> particular programs which your younger daughter finds so much "easier
    >> and faster" then I will alter my opinion. Until then it sounds like a
    >> load of hogwash to me.

    >
    > You sure do like to stir up ****, don't you Hadron? You make such a
    > big deal out of a perfectly normal statement when a father refers to one of
    > his children - "the youngest". You're obviously here to do nothing but
    > disrupt and in the same breathe accuse that behavior as being "COLA"
    > behavior. You're proving to be one sick asshole and I can understand why in
    > COLA most have developed such a disdain towards you.


    He stated that she found the programs "easier and faster" under LInux.

    I want to know which ones.

    Is that such a problem to you?

    I tire of your sycophantic waffle.


  12. Re: Another good reason for switching.

    NoStop wrote:
    > Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> But let my explain :: your story sounds like a load of made up bull****
    >> to me in order to curry favour with the Linux hard core. I'm quite
    >> willing to believe I am wrong on this - possibly if you list the
    >> particular programs which your younger daughter finds so much "easier
    >> and faster" then I will alter my opinion. Until then it sounds like a
    >> load of hogwash to me.

    >
    > You sure do like to stir up ****, don't you Hadron? You make such a
    > big deal out of a perfectly normal statement when a father refers to one of
    > his children - "the youngest". You're obviously here to do nothing but
    > disrupt and in the same breathe accuse that behavior as being "COLA"
    > behavior. You're proving to be one sick asshole and I can understand why in
    > COLA most have developed such a disdain towards you.
    >
    > Cheers.
    >



    The reason I brought up my youngest is that she is the only one with an
    open enough mind to use all three. The MS die hard which is male refuses
    to even look at anything else. And by the way my youngest is in college.
    the oldest graduated college 10 years ago.
    People that have to spout their so called credentials to call others not
    believable have already lost. After all quit a few of the greatest in
    their respective fields never graduated.
    caver1

  13. Re: Another good reason for switching.

    caver1 writes:

    > NoStop wrote:
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>> But let my explain :: your story sounds like a load of made up bull****
    >>> to me in order to curry favour with the Linux hard core. I'm quite
    >>> willing to believe I am wrong on this - possibly if you list the
    >>> particular programs which your younger daughter finds so much "easier
    >>> and faster" then I will alter my opinion. Until then it sounds like a
    >>> load of hogwash to me.

    >>
    >> You sure do like to stir up ****, don't you Hadron? You make such a
    >> big deal out of a perfectly normal statement when a father refers to one of
    >> his children - "the youngest". You're obviously here to do nothing but
    >> disrupt and in the same breathe accuse that behavior as being "COLA"
    >> behavior. You're proving to be one sick asshole and I can understand why in
    >> COLA most have developed such a disdain towards you.
    >>
    >> Cheers.
    >>

    >
    >
    > The reason I brought up my youngest is that she is the only one with
    > an open enough mind to use all three. The MS die hard which is male
    > refuses to even look at anything else. And by the way my youngest is
    > in college.
    > the oldest graduated college 10 years ago.
    > People that have to spout their so called credentials to call others
    > not believable have already lost. After all quit a few of the greatest
    > in their respective fields never graduated.
    > caver1


    I wasnt spouting my credentials. I merely said I graduated almost 20
    years ago to give you some idea of my age. You did ask.

    Now, when you've finished rubbing up against ButtStop's leg, maybe you
    could list these programs that your open minded youngert finds so much
    "easier and faster". Go on. It would make good advocacy and I for one
    would be seriously interested to hear which apps they are. Unless of
    course you were making it all up to suck up as I suspect you are still
    doing now.


  14. Re: Another good reason for switching.

    caver1 wrote:

    > DanS wrote:
    >> "kmbfha" wrote in
    >> news:dReCj.72541$I5.54562@fe09.news.easynews.com:
    >>
    >>> That's because in libraires the patrons either use the web browser or
    >>> a proprietary program
    >>> for searching. The computers are normally set up as kiosks andt they
    >>> have no conatct with
    >>> the actual workings of the computer (hardware or software). The
    >>> computers are on and
    >>> ready to go for them when they siit down. Of course they don't know
    >>> what OS they're
    >>> using becasue they never see anything but what they're allowed to see.

    >>
    >> And what is different between this and much of the corporate world, being
    >> a user, and nothing more. They can turn on the PC, use the s/w, set up
    >> some personal preferences, but that's about it.

    >
    >
    > That's talking about maybe 85-90% of all computer users. MS catered to
    > these users and did a good job of it. Now that they have control they
    > want more.(MS is not alone in this)
    > Linux did not cater to this aspect of the computing market. Linux is
    > starting to and doing it better than MS mostly because Linux does not
    > want to control me.
    > That is why I believe that Most EULAs are bad in that they are one
    > sided. Now we have to have one sided EULAs on hardware?
    > The only computer that I have owned that I didn't build was my first
    > one. That is the way it will stay as I will not have any corporation
    > controlling me for their profit.
    > EULAs in the computer world over all are wrong in that they want to give
    > complete control to one side of a so called contract.
    > caver1


    I wonder if these EULAs have ever been validated in a court of law? Anyone
    have any info on this? The whole concept of purchasing a product and then
    being confronted with an EULA when installing it and not having access to
    it at the point-of-sale, just doesn't sound right to me and never has.

    Cheers.

    --
    The world can't afford the rich.

    Q: What OS is built for lusers?
    A: Which one requires running lusermgr.msc to create them?

    Francis (Frank) adds a new "gadget" to his Vista box ...
    Download it here: http://tinyurl.com/2hnof6



  15. Re: Another good reason for switching.

    Hadron wrote:

    > NoStop writes:
    >
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> But let my explain :: your story sounds like a load of made up bull****
    >>> to me in order to curry favour with the Linux hard core. I'm quite
    >>> willing to believe I am wrong on this - possibly if you list the
    >>> particular programs which your younger daughter finds so much "easier
    >>> and faster" then I will alter my opinion. Until then it sounds like a
    >>> load of hogwash to me.

    >>
    >> You sure do like to stir up ****, don't you Hadron? You make such
    >> a big deal out of a perfectly normal statement when a father refers to
    >> one of his children - "the youngest". You're obviously here to do nothing
    >> but disrupt and in the same breathe accuse that behavior as being "COLA"
    >> behavior. You're proving to be one sick asshole and I can understand why
    >> in COLA most have developed such a disdain towards you.

    >
    > He stated that she found the programs "easier and faster" under LInux.
    >
    > I want to know which ones.
    >

    Why the fuk do YOU need to know? Can't you just accept that not everyone in
    this world is a ****ing liar like you?

    > Is that such a problem to you?
    >

    It's your constant challenging of others intentions that is a problem for
    me.

    > I tire of your sycophantic waffle.


    Then fukoff, as we're all getting very tired of you around here. Take your
    **** back to COLA where I see you're most welcomed by the Wintrolls.

    Cheers.

    --
    The world can't afford the rich.

    Q: What OS is built for lusers?
    A: Which one requires running lusermgr.msc to create them?

    Francis (Frank) adds a new "gadget" to his Vista box ...
    Download it here: http://tinyurl.com/2hnof6



  16. Re: Another good reason for switching.

    NoStop writes:

    > caver1 wrote:
    >
    >> DanS wrote:
    >>> "kmbfha" wrote in
    >>> news:dReCj.72541$I5.54562@fe09.news.easynews.com:
    >>>
    >>>> That's because in libraires the patrons either use the web browser or
    >>>> a proprietary program
    >>>> for searching. The computers are normally set up as kiosks andt they
    >>>> have no conatct with
    >>>> the actual workings of the computer (hardware or software). The
    >>>> computers are on and
    >>>> ready to go for them when they siit down. Of course they don't know
    >>>> what OS they're
    >>>> using becasue they never see anything but what they're allowed to see.
    >>>
    >>> And what is different between this and much of the corporate world, being
    >>> a user, and nothing more. They can turn on the PC, use the s/w, set up
    >>> some personal preferences, but that's about it.

    >>
    >>
    >> That's talking about maybe 85-90% of all computer users. MS catered to
    >> these users and did a good job of it. Now that they have control they
    >> want more.(MS is not alone in this)
    >> Linux did not cater to this aspect of the computing market. Linux is
    >> starting to and doing it better than MS mostly because Linux does not
    >> want to control me.
    >> That is why I believe that Most EULAs are bad in that they are one
    >> sided. Now we have to have one sided EULAs on hardware?
    >> The only computer that I have owned that I didn't build was my first
    >> one. That is the way it will stay as I will not have any corporation
    >> controlling me for their profit.


    How do they "control" you?

    >> EULAs in the computer world over all are wrong in that they want to give
    >> complete control to one side of a so called contract.


    Nonsense.

    >> caver1

    >
    > I wonder if these EULAs have ever been validated in a court of law? Anyone
    > have any info on this? The whole concept of purchasing a product and then
    > being confronted with an EULA when installing it and not having access to
    > it at the point-of-sale, just doesn't sound right to me and never has.
    >


    The EULA is there to protect the companies from unscrupulous end users
    who will screw up and then try to sue the makers.

    Without the EULA, the companies leave themselves open to being defrauded left
    right and centre.

    Jesus, you cant get on a bus without agreeing to the terms of service.

    What is wrong with you people?

  17. Re: Another good reason for switching.

    NoStop writes:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> NoStop writes:
    >>
    >>> Hadron wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> But let my explain :: your story sounds like a load of made up bull****
    >>>> to me in order to curry favour with the Linux hard core. I'm quite
    >>>> willing to believe I am wrong on this - possibly if you list the
    >>>> particular programs which your younger daughter finds so much "easier
    >>>> and faster" then I will alter my opinion. Until then it sounds like a
    >>>> load of hogwash to me.
    >>>
    >>> You sure do like to stir up ****, don't you Hadron? You make such
    >>> a big deal out of a perfectly normal statement when a father refers to
    >>> one of his children - "the youngest". You're obviously here to do nothing
    >>> but disrupt and in the same breathe accuse that behavior as being "COLA"
    >>> behavior. You're proving to be one sick asshole and I can understand why
    >>> in COLA most have developed such a disdain towards you.

    >>
    >> He stated that she found the programs "easier and faster" under LInux.
    >>
    >> I want to know which ones.
    >>

    > Why the fuk do YOU need to know? Can't you just accept that not everyone in
    > this world is a ****ing liar like you?


    Because other wise he's spouting nonsense. I rarely find an OSS product
    to be easier to use. I would be interested in him backing up his
    claims. If you claim this type of stuff then be prepared to justify
    it. I will always justify my claims. Why can you not do the same? All
    you do is rant and killfile.


    >
    >> Is that such a problem to you?
    >>

    > It's your constant challenging of others intentions that is a problem for
    > me.


    Constant? Where is the constant?

    >
    >> I tire of your sycophantic waffle.

    >
    > Then fukoff, as we're all getting very tired of you around here. Take
    > your


    I dare say that the "we" as in "fan boy linux elite" are. Others can
    draw a more reasoned conclusion based on the content rather than the
    perceived side I am on. You see I am a Linux user. I rarely use
    Windows. I am also involved in OSS development and propagation. Whereas
    you are a zealot and a wannabe. I feel your pain. I feel no need to
    defend the indefensible. I see a need to recognise issues in OSS and
    address them.

    > **** back to COLA where I see you're most welcomed by the Wintrolls.


    You're a low brow paranoid wanker with a persecution complex. Try and
    open those little beetle brow eyes of yours and see outside of your fan
    boy cellar.


  18. Re: Another good reason for switching.

    NoStop wrote:

    > caver1 wrote:
    >
    >> DanS wrote:
    >>> "kmbfha" wrote in
    >>> news:dReCj.72541$I5.54562@fe09.news.easynews.com:
    >>>
    >>>> That's because in libraires the patrons either use the web browser or
    >>>> a proprietary program
    >>>> for searching. The computers are normally set up as kiosks andt they
    >>>> have no conatct with
    >>>> the actual workings of the computer (hardware or software). The
    >>>> computers are on and
    >>>> ready to go for them when they siit down. Of course they don't know
    >>>> what OS they're
    >>>> using becasue they never see anything but what they're allowed to see.
    >>>
    >>> And what is different between this and much of the corporate world,
    >>> being a user, and nothing more. They can turn on the PC, use the s/w,
    >>> set up some personal preferences, but that's about it.

    >>
    >>
    >> That's talking about maybe 85-90% of all computer users. MS catered to
    >> these users and did a good job of it. Now that they have control they
    >> want more.(MS is not alone in this)
    >> Linux did not cater to this aspect of the computing market. Linux is
    >> starting to and doing it better than MS mostly because Linux does not
    >> want to control me.
    >> That is why I believe that Most EULAs are bad in that they are one
    >> sided. Now we have to have one sided EULAs on hardware?
    >> The only computer that I have owned that I didn't build was my first
    >> one. That is the way it will stay as I will not have any corporation
    >> controlling me for their profit.
    >> EULAs in the computer world over all are wrong in that they want to give
    >> complete control to one side of a so called contract.
    >> caver1

    >
    > I wonder if these EULAs have ever been validated in a court of law? Anyone
    > have any info on this? The whole concept of purchasing a product and then
    > being confronted with an EULA when installing it and not having access to
    > it at the point-of-sale, just doesn't sound right to me and never has.
    >


    EULAs are totally invalid in most european countries. In germany they are
    not worth the (non-)paper they are written on.
    You are entitled to know all the conditions pre-sale. Any additional
    restriction is invalid and may even backfire on the company using it.

    So, you can actually click on any EULA you like here, it is non-binding.
    It has zero legal value if you get to see it only after the sale.
    --
    In Seattle, Washington, it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon
    that is over six feet in length.


  19. Re: Another good reason for switching.

    NoStop wrote:
    > caver1 wrote:
    >
    >> DanS wrote:
    >>> "kmbfha" wrote in
    >>> news:dReCj.72541$I5.54562@fe09.news.easynews.com:
    >>>
    >>>> That's because in libraires the patrons either use the web browser or
    >>>> a proprietary program
    >>>> for searching. The computers are normally set up as kiosks andt they
    >>>> have no conatct with
    >>>> the actual workings of the computer (hardware or software). The
    >>>> computers are on and
    >>>> ready to go for them when they siit down. Of course they don't know
    >>>> what OS they're
    >>>> using becasue they never see anything but what they're allowed to see.
    >>> And what is different between this and much of the corporate world, being
    >>> a user, and nothing more. They can turn on the PC, use the s/w, set up
    >>> some personal preferences, but that's about it.

    >>
    >> That's talking about maybe 85-90% of all computer users. MS catered to
    >> these users and did a good job of it. Now that they have control they
    >> want more.(MS is not alone in this)
    >> Linux did not cater to this aspect of the computing market. Linux is
    >> starting to and doing it better than MS mostly because Linux does not
    >> want to control me.
    >> That is why I believe that Most EULAs are bad in that they are one
    >> sided. Now we have to have one sided EULAs on hardware?
    >> The only computer that I have owned that I didn't build was my first
    >> one. That is the way it will stay as I will not have any corporation
    >> controlling me for their profit.
    >> EULAs in the computer world over all are wrong in that they want to give
    >> complete control to one side of a so called contract.
    >> caver1

    >
    > I wonder if these EULAs have ever been validated in a court of law? Anyone
    > have any info on this? The whole concept of purchasing a product and then
    > being confronted with an EULA when installing it and not having access to
    > it at the point-of-sale, just doesn't sound right to me and never has.
    >
    > Cheers.
    >




    Yes a many have and a few haven't.
    read this.... http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/423.
    Its not just at the point of sale. They also reserve the right to change
    the terms at anytime and if you don't agree you lose the privilege to
    continue using said product. EULAs in themselves are not a bad idea but
    the way they have evolved is wrong.
    caver1

  20. Re: Another good reason for switching.

    Hadron wrote:

    > NoStop writes:
    >
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>> NoStop writes:
    >>>
    >>>> Hadron wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> But let my explain :: your story sounds like a load of made up
    >>>>> bull**** to me in order to curry favour with the Linux hard core. I'm
    >>>>> quite willing to believe I am wrong on this - possibly if you list the
    >>>>> particular programs which your younger daughter finds so much "easier
    >>>>> and faster" then I will alter my opinion. Until then it sounds like a
    >>>>> load of hogwash to me.
    >>>>
    >>>> You sure do like to stir up ****, don't you Hadron? You make
    >>>> such a big deal out of a perfectly normal statement when a father
    >>>> refers to one of his children - "the youngest". You're obviously here
    >>>> to do nothing but disrupt and in the same breathe accuse that behavior
    >>>> as being "COLA" behavior. You're proving to be one sick asshole and I
    >>>> can understand why in COLA most have developed such a disdain towards
    >>>> you.
    >>>
    >>> He stated that she found the programs "easier and faster" under LInux.
    >>>
    >>> I want to know which ones.
    >>>

    >> Why the fuk do YOU need to know? Can't you just accept that not everyone
    >> in this world is a ****ing liar like you?

    >
    > Because other wise he's spouting nonsense. I rarely find an OSS product
    > to be easier to use.


    Then you're dumber than I thought! WTF would you be using an OSS product
    that is so terrible? That doesn't make sense at all. If most OSS apps are
    inferior, as you claim, then I just don't understand why you use an
    operating system that essentially is made up of OSS apps? Just stick with
    using a much more superior OS like Vista and be done with your lunatic
    ravings. No one is forcing you to use something as inferior as Open Source.

    Cheers.

    --
    The world can't afford the rich.

    Q: What OS is built for lusers?
    A: Which one requires running lusermgr.msc to create them?

    Francis (Frank) adds a new "gadget" to his Vista box ...
    Download it here: http://tinyurl.com/2hnof6



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