Re: Even Mark Shuttleworth admits - "It would be reasonable to say that this (Linux) is not ready for the mass market." - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on Re: Even Mark Shuttleworth admits - "It would be reasonable to say that this (Linux) is not ready for the mass market." - Ubuntu ; On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 14:09:00 -0500, Troy Kirkland wrote: > http://ptech.allthingsd.com/20070913...-for-everyone/ > > > > > Even in the relatively slick Ubuntu variation, Linux is still too rough > around the edges for the vast majority of computer users. ...

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Thread: Re: Even Mark Shuttleworth admits - "It would be reasonable to say that this (Linux) is not ready for the mass market."

  1. Re: Even Mark Shuttleworth admits - "It would be reasonable to say that this (Linux) is not ready for the mass market."

    On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 14:09:00 -0500, Troy Kirkland wrote:

    > http://ptech.allthingsd.com/20070913...-for-everyone/
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Even in the relatively slick Ubuntu variation, Linux is still too rough
    > around the edges for the vast majority of computer users. While Ubuntu looks
    > a lot like Windows or Mac OS X, it is full of little complications and
    > hassles that will quickly frustrate most people who just want to use their
    > computers, not maintain or tweak them.
    >
    > Before every passionate Linux fan attacks that conclusion, let me note that
    > even the folks who make and sell Ubuntu agree with it. Mark Shuttleworth,
    > the South African-born founder of the Ubuntu project, told me this week that
    > "it would be reasonable to say that this is not ready for the mass market."
    > And Dell's Web site for its Ubuntu computers warns that these machines are
    > for "for advanced users and tech enthusiasts."
    >
    >
    > So, what do I mean when I say Ubuntu is too rough around the edges for
    > average users? Here are some examples.
    >
    > There is no control panel for adjusting the way the touch pad works, and I
    > found it so sensitive that I was constantly launching programs and opening
    > windows accidentally by touching the thing. Every time the computer awoke
    > from sleep, the volume control software crashed and had to be reloaded.
    >
    > When I tried to play common audio and video files, such as MP3 songs, I was
    > told I had to first download special files called codecs that are built into
    > Windows and Mac computers. I was warned that some of these codecs might be
    > "bad" or "ugly."
    >
    > To get the computer to recognize my Kodak camera and Apple iPod, I had to
    > reboot it several times. When it did find the iPod, it wasn't able to
    > synchronize with it. Playing videos was a bad experience, with lots of
    > flickering and freezing. Oh, and there's no built-in software for playing
    > commercial DVDs.
    >
    > But for now, I still advise mainstream, nontechnical users to avoid Linux.
    >
    >


    Watch the comp.os.linux.advocacy loony toons ignore this one.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  2. Re: Even Mark Shuttleworth admits - "It would be reasonable to say that this (Linux) is not ready for the mass market."

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Moshe Goldfarb

    wrote
    on Mon, 3 Mar 2008 19:50:13 -0500
    <2psu6bibabkh$.1hhxtjxf6oc8g$.dlg@40tude.net>:
    > On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 14:09:00 -0500, Troy Kirkland wrote:
    >
    >> http://ptech.allthingsd.com/20070913...-for-everyone/
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Even in the relatively slick Ubuntu variation, Linux is still too rough
    >> around the edges for the vast majority of computer users. While Ubuntu looks
    >> a lot like Windows or Mac OS X, it is full of little complications and
    >> hassles that will quickly frustrate most people who just want to use their
    >> computers, not maintain or tweak them.
    >>
    >> Before every passionate Linux fan attacks that conclusion, let me note that
    >> even the folks who make and sell Ubuntu agree with it. Mark Shuttleworth,
    >> the South African-born founder of the Ubuntu project, told me this week that
    >> "it would be reasonable to say that this is not ready for the mass market."
    >> And Dell's Web site for its Ubuntu computers warns that these machines are
    >> for "for advanced users and tech enthusiasts."
    >>
    >>
    >> So, what do I mean when I say Ubuntu is too rough around the edges for
    >> average users? Here are some examples.
    >>
    >> There is no control panel for adjusting the way the touch pad works, and I
    >> found it so sensitive that I was constantly launching programs and opening
    >> windows accidentally by touching the thing. Every time the computer awoke
    >> from sleep, the volume control software crashed and had to be reloaded.
    >>
    >> When I tried to play common audio and video files, such as MP3 songs, I was
    >> told I had to first download special files called codecs that are built into
    >> Windows and Mac computers. I was warned that some of these codecs might be
    >> "bad" or "ugly."
    >>
    >> To get the computer to recognize my Kodak camera and Apple iPod, I had to
    >> reboot it several times. When it did find the iPod, it wasn't able to
    >> synchronize with it. Playing videos was a bad experience, with lots of
    >> flickering and freezing. Oh, and there's no built-in software for playing
    >> commercial DVDs.
    >>
    >> But for now, I still advise mainstream, nontechnical users to avoid Linux.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Watch the comp.os.linux.advocacy loony toons ignore this one.
    >


    What exactly would you have us do?

    [1] Advocate switching to Microsoft Windows Vista?

    [2] Fix the bugs in FLOSS that preclude mainstream
    application, even though the bugs are not exactly enough
    specified for repair?

    [3] Attempt to pin down the complaints?

    [4] Nitpick the issue to death?

    [5] Call you a moronic imbecile with delusions of
    intelligence for even mentioning the issue?

    Apart from #1 and #5 being out of charter, it's far
    from obvious. FLOSS does need better error reporting
    in a number of spots; Gnome in particular likes to dump
    things into ~/.gnomerc-errors, which is adequate but hardly
    user-friendly unless one knows how to read that file using
    a standard text editor, the option "Show hidden files",
    and a little knowledge of its very existence.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Windows Vista. Now in nine exciting editions. Try them all!

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  3. Re: Even Mark Shuttleworth admits - "It would be reasonable to saythat this (Linux) is not ready for the mass market."

    The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Moshe Goldfarb
    >
    > wrote
    > on Mon, 3 Mar 2008 19:50:13 -0500
    > <2psu6bibabkh$.1hhxtjxf6oc8g$.dlg@40tude.net>:
    >
    >>On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 14:09:00 -0500, Troy Kirkland wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>http://ptech.allthingsd.com/20070913...-for-everyone/
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Even in the relatively slick Ubuntu variation, Linux is still too rough
    >>>around the edges for the vast majority of computer users. While Ubuntu looks
    >>>a lot like Windows or Mac OS X, it is full of little complications and
    >>>hassles that will quickly frustrate most people who just want to use their
    >>>computers, not maintain or tweak them.
    >>>
    >>>Before every passionate Linux fan attacks that conclusion, let me note that
    >>>even the folks who make and sell Ubuntu agree with it. Mark Shuttleworth,
    >>>the South African-born founder of the Ubuntu project, told me this week that
    >>>"it would be reasonable to say that this is not ready for the mass market."
    >>>And Dell's Web site for its Ubuntu computers warns that these machines are
    >>>for "for advanced users and tech enthusiasts."
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>So, what do I mean when I say Ubuntu is too rough around the edges for
    >>>average users? Here are some examples.
    >>>
    >>>There is no control panel for adjusting the way the touch pad works, and I
    >>>found it so sensitive that I was constantly launching programs and opening
    >>>windows accidentally by touching the thing. Every time the computer awoke
    >>>from sleep, the volume control software crashed and had to be reloaded.
    >>>
    >>>When I tried to play common audio and video files, such as MP3 songs, I was
    >>>told I had to first download special files called codecs that are built into
    >>>Windows and Mac computers. I was warned that some of these codecs might be
    >>>"bad" or "ugly."
    >>>
    >>>To get the computer to recognize my Kodak camera and Apple iPod, I had to
    >>>reboot it several times. When it did find the iPod, it wasn't able to
    >>>synchronize with it. Playing videos was a bad experience, with lots of
    >>>flickering and freezing. Oh, and there's no built-in software for playing
    >>>commercial DVDs.
    >>>
    >>>But for now, I still advise mainstream, nontechnical users to avoid Linux.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>Watch the comp.os.linux.advocacy loony toons ignore this one.
    >>

    >
    >
    > What exactly would you have us do?
    >
    > [1] Advocate switching to Microsoft Windows Vista?


    That would be the very best thing to do. Problem is, you'd have to
    actually pay for it.
    >
    > [2] Fix the bugs in FLOSS that preclude mainstream
    > application, even though the bugs are not exactly enough
    > specified for repair?


    No just delete and forget it.
    >
    > [3] Attempt to pin down the complaints?


    Why bother?
    >
    > [4] Nitpick the issue to death?


    That would take an eternity!
    >
    > [5] Call you a moronic imbecile with delusions of
    > intelligence for even mentioning the issue?


    And in the process make you look like you have a brain smaller than a slug?
    >
    > Apart from #1 and #5 being out of charter,


    Then vote to change the charter.
    It's that simple.
    Frank

  4. Re: Even Mark Shuttleworth admits - "It would be reasonable to say that this (Linux) is not ready for the mass market."

    Moshe Goldfarb wrote:

    > On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 14:09:00 -0500, Troy Kirkland wrote:


    < snip teranews nymshifter garbage >

    > Watch the comp.os.linux.advocacy loony toons ignore this one.
    >


    Watch flatfish crossposting this to alt.os.linux.ubuntu

    Naturally, as it was about "ubuntu".
    Written by the most incompetent nymshifter of all time
    Flatfish really needs just extremely weak excuses for his trolling attemps
    --
    Support bacteria -- it's the only culture some people have!


  5. Re: Even Mark Shuttleworth admits - "It would be reasonable to saythat this (Linux) is not ready for the mass market."

    On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 19:50:13 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:

    > On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 14:09:00 -0500, Troy Kirkland wrote:
    >>
    >> But for now, I still advise mainstream, nontechnical users to avoid
    >> Linux.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Watch the comp.os.linux.advocacy loony toons ignore this one.



    What would happen if the average Joe took home a new PC with a blank hard
    drive and a shrink-wrapped copy of Windows? Would he even know he needed
    third-party drivers for video, sound, etc.? He'd sure find out in a
    hurry that something wasn't right.

    Most people buy a box with Windows already set up and the drivers
    preinstalled. They would have no more difficulty using a Ubuntu system
    that was already set up. For most of the basic applications, there's not
    much difference any more.

    Charlie

  6. Re: Even Mark Shuttleworth admits - "It would be reasonable to say that this (Linux) is not ready for the mass market."

    Charlie Wilkes espoused:
    > On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 19:50:13 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >
    >> On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 14:09:00 -0500, Troy Kirkland wrote:
    >>>
    >>> But for now, I still advise mainstream, nontechnical users to avoid
    >>> Linux.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Watch the comp.os.linux.advocacy loony toons ignore this one.

    >
    >
    > What would happen if the average Joe took home a new PC with a blank hard
    > drive and a shrink-wrapped copy of Windows? Would he even know he needed
    > third-party drivers for video, sound, etc.? He'd sure find out in a
    > hurry that something wasn't right.
    >
    > Most people buy a box with Windows already set up and the drivers
    > preinstalled. They would have no more difficulty using a Ubuntu system
    > that was already set up. For most of the basic applications, there's not
    > much difference any more.
    >


    Hi Charlie, you're replying to a pair of the most obnoxious microsoft
    trolls who inhabit Cola, and try to start cross-group flamewars, to
    boot.

    The amazing popularity of Asus Eee, TomTom's Satnav, the Nokia
    N770/800/810, Ubuntu itself, Mythtv, Firefox, OpenOffice.org, GP2X and
    more all show that whether Linux is ready for the mass market or not
    is entirely the wrong question. It's /already in/ the mass market.
    And it's selling, in vast numbers.

    The Asus Eee has been so popular in the UK that they've been like
    gold-dust, virtually impossible to get hold of. The recently announced
    release of the Elonex £99 PC with separable display/web tablet is yet
    another step in the same direction.

    I strongly suggest you killfile Scott Nudds and his nyms (including Troy
    Kirkland), and Gary Stewart and his nyms (including Moshe Goldfarb),
    in order to avoid providing them with the platform they need to continue
    to push their unpleasant agenda. The are most likely paid for this,
    probably on a per post basis, so even replying lines their pockets.

    See here: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ for more information on
    the Microsoft Shilcosystem which infests cola.

    --
    | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

  7. Re: Even Mark Shuttleworth admits - "It would be reasonable to saythat this (Linux) is not ready for the mass market."

    Moshe Goldfarb wrote:

    > Watch the comp.os.linux.advocacy loony toons ignore this one.
    >


    well they convinced me, i am going to stop using linux right now, bye
    everyone

  8. Re: Even Mark Shuttleworth admits - "It would be reasonable to saythat this (Linux) is not ready for the mass market."

    Frank wrote:
    > The Ghost In The Machine wrote:


    >> What exactly would you have us do?
    >>
    >> [1] Advocate switching to Microsoft Windows Vista?

    >
    > That would be the very best thing to do. Problem is, you'd have to
    > actually pay for it.


    And replace one *huge* piece of software that has a couple of rough
    edges here and there with one that the manufacturer admits is not
    actually ready (cf.
    blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/library/vistaone3046.pdf )
    but that you have to pay big bucks for?

    --
    These are my personal views and not those of Fujitsu Siemens Computers!
    Josef Möllers (Pinguinpfleger bei FSC)
    If failure had no penalty success would not be a prize (T. Pratchett)
    Company Details: http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/imprint.html

  9. Re: Even Mark Shuttleworth admits - "It would be reasonable to saythat this (Linux) is not ready for the mass market."

    Mark Kent wrote:

    > I strongly suggest you killfile Scott Nudds and his nyms (including Troy


    Is it really Scott surfacing?
    That guy does have some chuzpa, having called people names when they
    actually foresaw that PCs will have gigabytes of memory in clax?
    Understandably that he doesn't dare post under his true name.
    I do feel sorry for him.

    --
    These are my personal views and not those of Fujitsu Siemens Computers!
    Josef Möllers (Pinguinpfleger bei FSC)
    If failure had no penalty success would not be a prize (T. Pratchett)
    Company Details: http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/imprint.html

  10. Re: Even Mark Shuttleworth admits - "It would be reasonable to saythat this (Linux) is not ready for the mass market."

    Eps wrote:
    > Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >
    >> Watch the comp.os.linux.advocacy loony toons ignore this one.
    >>

    >
    > well they convinced me, i am going to stop using linux right now, bye
    > everyone


    See you later ;-)

    --
    These are my personal views and not those of Fujitsu Siemens Computers!
    Josef Möllers (Pinguinpfleger bei FSC)
    If failure had no penalty success would not be a prize (T. Pratchett)
    Company Details: http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/imprint.html

  11. Re: Even Mark Shuttleworth admits - "It would be reasonable to saythat this (Linux) is not ready for the mass market."

    On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 09:47:52 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:

    > Charlie Wilkes espoused:
    >> On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 19:50:13 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 14:09:00 -0500, Troy Kirkland wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> But for now, I still advise mainstream, nontechnical users to avoid
    >>>> Linux.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Watch the comp.os.linux.advocacy loony toons ignore this one.

    >>
    >>
    >> What would happen if the average Joe took home a new PC with a blank
    >> hard drive and a shrink-wrapped copy of Windows? Would he even know he
    >> needed third-party drivers for video, sound, etc.? He'd sure find out
    >> in a hurry that something wasn't right.
    >>
    >> Most people buy a box with Windows already set up and the drivers
    >> preinstalled. They would have no more difficulty using a Ubuntu system
    >> that was already set up. For most of the basic applications, there's
    >> not much difference any more.
    >>
    >>

    > Hi Charlie, you're replying to a pair of the most obnoxious microsoft
    > trolls who inhabit Cola, and try to start cross-group flamewars, to
    > boot.


    Yeah, I've seen the back and forth on this.

    >
    > The amazing popularity of Asus Eee, TomTom's Satnav, the Nokia
    > N770/800/810, Ubuntu itself, Mythtv, Firefox, OpenOffice.org, GP2X and
    > more all show that whether Linux is ready for the mass market or not is
    > entirely the wrong question. It's /already in/ the mass market. And
    > it's selling, in vast numbers.
    >
    > The Asus Eee has been so popular in the UK that they've been like
    > gold-dust, virtually impossible to get hold of. The recently announced
    > release of the Elonex £99 PC with separable display/web tablet is yet
    > another step in the same direction.
    >
    > I strongly suggest you killfile Scott Nudds and his nyms (including Troy
    > Kirkland), and Gary Stewart and his nyms (including Moshe Goldfarb), in
    > order to avoid providing them with the platform they need to continue to
    > push their unpleasant agenda. The are most likely paid for this,
    > probably on a per post basis, so even replying lines their pockets.


    I never killfile anyone unless they are flooding, which I don't see
    people doing in this group.

    As for getting paid... I'm skeptical, but who knows? They say Roy gets
    paid to post.

    I wish someone would pay me to post on Usenet.

    Charlie

    >
    > See here: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ for more information on
    > the Microsoft Shilcosystem which infests cola.
    >


  12. Re: Even Mark Shuttleworth admits - "It would be reasonable to say that this (Linux) is not ready for the mass market."

    Charlie Wilkes writes:

    > On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 09:47:52 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >
    >> Charlie Wilkes espoused:
    >>> On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 19:50:13 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 14:09:00 -0500, Troy Kirkland wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> But for now, I still advise mainstream, nontechnical users to avoid
    >>>>> Linux.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Watch the comp.os.linux.advocacy loony toons ignore this one.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> What would happen if the average Joe took home a new PC with a blank
    >>> hard drive and a shrink-wrapped copy of Windows? Would he even know he
    >>> needed third-party drivers for video, sound, etc.? He'd sure find out
    >>> in a hurry that something wasn't right.
    >>>
    >>> Most people buy a box with Windows already set up and the drivers
    >>> preinstalled. They would have no more difficulty using a Ubuntu system
    >>> that was already set up. For most of the basic applications, there's
    >>> not much difference any more.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> Hi Charlie, you're replying to a pair of the most obnoxious microsoft
    >> trolls who inhabit Cola, and try to start cross-group flamewars, to
    >> boot.

    >
    > Yeah, I've seen the back and forth on this.
    >
    >>
    >> The amazing popularity of Asus Eee, TomTom's Satnav, the Nokia
    >> N770/800/810, Ubuntu itself, Mythtv, Firefox, OpenOffice.org, GP2X and
    >> more all show that whether Linux is ready for the mass market or not
    >> is


    An OS on a phone is not an OS on the desktop.

    MythTV is such a minority thing its laughable.

    Firefox and OO are not "Linux". They are OSS and run on Windows too.


    >> entirely the wrong question. It's /already in/ the mass market. And
    >> it's selling, in vast numbers.


    No. "It isn't".

    The HW is selling because it fits a need and most people dont have a
    clue that Linux is on their phone because they dont sit at their phone
    in the office and try to use Quicken or somesuch on it. Can you really
    be such a blinded fan boy?

    >>
    >> The Asus Eee has been so popular in the UK that they've been like
    >> gold-dust, virtually impossible to get hold of. The recently announced
    >> release of the Elonex £99 PC with separable display/web tablet is yet
    >> another step in the same direction.


    Because it is a cool piece of HW.

    >>
    >> I strongly suggest you killfile Scott Nudds and his nyms (including Troy
    >> Kirkland), and Gary Stewart and his nyms (including Moshe Goldfarb), in
    >> order to avoid providing them with the platform they need to continue to
    >> push their unpleasant agenda. The are most likely paid for this,
    >> probably on a per post basis, so even replying lines their pockets.


    And Roy? Is Roy paid?

    >
    > I never killfile anyone unless they are flooding, which I don't see
    > people doing in this group.


    Good man. Except for Roy that is.

    >
    > As for getting paid... I'm skeptical, but who knows? They say Roy gets
    > paid to post.


    Roy admits it.

  13. Re: Even Mark Shuttleworth admits - "It would be reasonable to say that this (Linux) is not ready for the mass market."

    Hadron wrote:

    > Charlie Wilkes writes:


    < snip typical Hadron Quark lunacy >

    >> As for getting paid... I'm skeptical, but who knows? They say Roy gets
    >> paid to post.

    >
    > Roy admits it.


    Certainly. After all, you are able to provide the Msg-ID of exactly that
    posts where he "admits it".
    Right, Hadron? Riiiight?
    --
    Microsoft is not the answer. Microsoft is the question. The answer is NO


  14. Re: Even Mark Shuttleworth admits - "It would be reasonable to say that this (Linux) is not ready for the mass market."

    Charlie Wilkes espoused:
    > On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 09:47:52 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
    >
    >> Charlie Wilkes espoused:
    >>> On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 19:50:13 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 14:09:00 -0500, Troy Kirkland wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> But for now, I still advise mainstream, nontechnical users to avoid
    >>>>> Linux.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Watch the comp.os.linux.advocacy loony toons ignore this one.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> What would happen if the average Joe took home a new PC with a blank
    >>> hard drive and a shrink-wrapped copy of Windows? Would he even know he
    >>> needed third-party drivers for video, sound, etc.? He'd sure find out
    >>> in a hurry that something wasn't right.
    >>>
    >>> Most people buy a box with Windows already set up and the drivers
    >>> preinstalled. They would have no more difficulty using a Ubuntu system
    >>> that was already set up. For most of the basic applications, there's
    >>> not much difference any more.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> Hi Charlie, you're replying to a pair of the most obnoxious microsoft
    >> trolls who inhabit Cola, and try to start cross-group flamewars, to
    >> boot.

    >
    > Yeah, I've seen the back and forth on this.
    >
    >>
    >> The amazing popularity of Asus Eee, TomTom's Satnav, the Nokia
    >> N770/800/810, Ubuntu itself, Mythtv, Firefox, OpenOffice.org, GP2X and
    >> more all show that whether Linux is ready for the mass market or not is
    >> entirely the wrong question. It's /already in/ the mass market. And
    >> it's selling, in vast numbers.
    >>
    >> The Asus Eee has been so popular in the UK that they've been like
    >> gold-dust, virtually impossible to get hold of. The recently announced
    >> release of the Elonex £99 PC with separable display/web tablet is yet
    >> another step in the same direction.
    >>
    >> I strongly suggest you killfile Scott Nudds and his nyms (including Troy
    >> Kirkland), and Gary Stewart and his nyms (including Moshe Goldfarb), in
    >> order to avoid providing them with the platform they need to continue to
    >> push their unpleasant agenda. The are most likely paid for this,
    >> probably on a per post basis, so even replying lines their pockets.

    >
    > I never killfile anyone unless they are flooding, which I don't see
    > people doing in this group.
    >
    > As for getting paid... I'm skeptical, but who knows?


    Actually, there's plenty of evidence around, you don't need to be
    sceptical, it's a matter of public record. There are many examples.
    If you ask Roy, he'll be able to show you some, or just google for "fake
    grassroots" for a start-point.

    > They say Roy gets
    > paid to post.
    >


    "They" being the anti-charter posters, presumably? What our shilcosystem
    has never managed to establish, is, who would pay Roy? I believe
    he's been paid for a couple of articles by those who published them,
    and his boycottnovell.com site carries advertising, but I don't think
    Roy's making a living out of this.

    > I wish someone would pay me to post on Usenet.
    >


    Me too, however, you're helping the shilcosystem get paid when you
    respond to the anti-charter posters.

    --
    | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

  15. Re: Even Mark Shuttleworth admits - "It would be reasonable to say that this (Linux) is not ready for the mass market."

    Josef Moellers espoused:
    > Mark Kent wrote:
    >
    >> I strongly suggest you killfile Scott Nudds and his nyms (including Troy

    >
    > Is it really Scott surfacing?
    > That guy does have some chuzpa, having called people names when they
    > actually foresaw that PCs will have gigabytes of memory in clax?
    > Understandably that he doesn't dare post under his true name.
    > I do feel sorry for him.
    >


    He doesn't have quite the range of nyms as Gary Stewart, but he's been
    trolling here for a very long time. Sometimes, the trolls get together
    to start inter-group wars, which is what this attempt was, I believe.

    Have fun!

    --
    | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

  16. Re: Even Mark Shuttleworth admits - "It would be reasonable to saythat this (Linux) is not ready for the mass market."

    Josef Moellers wrote:

    > Frank wrote:
    >
    >> The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

    >
    >
    >>> What exactly would you have us do?
    >>>
    >>> [1] Advocate switching to Microsoft Windows Vista?

    >>
    >>
    >> That would be the very best thing to do. Problem is, you'd have to
    >> actually pay for it.

    >
    >
    > And replace one *huge* piece of software that has a couple of rough
    > edges here and there with one that the manufacturer admits is not
    > actually ready (cf.
    > blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/library/vistaone3046.pdf )
    > but that you have to pay big bucks for?
    >



    Anything, even a yellow legal pad and pencil is better than that POS toy
    os urbuttoo...LOL!
    Frank

  17. Re: Even Mark Shuttleworth admits - "It would be reasonable to say that this (Linux) is not ready for the mass market."

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Frank

    wrote
    on Mon, 03 Mar 2008 17:43:23 -0800
    <47cca93a$0$6132$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>:
    > The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Moshe Goldfarb
    >>
    >> wrote
    >> on Mon, 3 Mar 2008 19:50:13 -0500
    >> <2psu6bibabkh$.1hhxtjxf6oc8g$.dlg@40tude.net>:
    >>
    >>>On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 14:09:00 -0500, Troy Kirkland wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>http://ptech.allthingsd.com/20070913...-for-everyone/
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>Even in the relatively slick Ubuntu variation, Linux is still too rough
    >>>>around the edges for the vast majority of computer users. While Ubuntu looks
    >>>>a lot like Windows or Mac OS X, it is full of little complications and
    >>>>hassles that will quickly frustrate most people who just want to use their
    >>>>computers, not maintain or tweak them.
    >>>>
    >>>>Before every passionate Linux fan attacks that conclusion, let me note that
    >>>>even the folks who make and sell Ubuntu agree with it. Mark Shuttleworth,
    >>>>the South African-born founder of the Ubuntu project, told me this week that
    >>>>"it would be reasonable to say that this is not ready for the mass market."
    >>>>And Dell's Web site for its Ubuntu computers warns that these machines are
    >>>>for "for advanced users and tech enthusiasts."
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>So, what do I mean when I say Ubuntu is too rough around the edges for
    >>>>average users? Here are some examples.
    >>>>
    >>>>There is no control panel for adjusting the way the touch pad works, and I
    >>>>found it so sensitive that I was constantly launching programs and opening
    >>>>windows accidentally by touching the thing. Every time the computer awoke
    >>>>from sleep, the volume control software crashed and had to be reloaded.
    >>>>
    >>>>When I tried to play common audio and video files, such as MP3 songs, I was
    >>>>told I had to first download special files called codecs that are built into
    >>>>Windows and Mac computers. I was warned that some of these codecs might be
    >>>>"bad" or "ugly."
    >>>>
    >>>>To get the computer to recognize my Kodak camera and Apple iPod, I had to
    >>>>reboot it several times. When it did find the iPod, it wasn't able to
    >>>>synchronize with it. Playing videos was a bad experience, with lots of
    >>>>flickering and freezing. Oh, and there's no built-in software for playing
    >>>>commercial DVDs.
    >>>>
    >>>>But for now, I still advise mainstream, nontechnical users to avoid Linux.
    >>>>
    >>>>

    >>>
    >>>Watch the comp.os.linux.advocacy loony toons ignore this one.
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >> What exactly would you have us do?
    >>
    >> [1] Advocate switching to Microsoft Windows Vista?

    >
    > That would be the very best thing to do. Problem is,
    > you'd have to actually pay for it.


    Someone already did. Too bad K-man has since apparently
    made it inaccessible on his site, probably out of fairness
    to Vista owners; he does post what SP1 fixed, which is
    a very, um, short list about what was fixed therein:
    http://kadaitcha.cx/vista/ad_hoc/sp1/aboutsp1.html

    >>
    >> [2] Fix the bugs in FLOSS that preclude mainstream
    >> application, even though the bugs are not exactly enough
    >> specified for repair?

    >
    > No just delete and forget it.
    >>
    >> [3] Attempt to pin down the complaints?

    >
    > Why bother?


    In light of #2, why indeed? Since FLOSS is going
    to be thrown away anyway in the next year or two
    once the legislators in the House and Senate are
    bribed^H^H^H^H^H^Hconvinced that it would be in the best
    interests for the country.

    After all, gotta protect those patent holders.

    >>
    >> [4] Nitpick the issue to death?

    >
    > That would take an eternity!
    >>
    >> [5] Call you a moronic imbecile with delusions of
    >> intelligence for even mentioning the issue?

    >
    > And in the process make you look like you have a brain smaller than a slug?


    I did say this was a choice; I didn't

    >>
    >> Apart from #1 and #5 being out of charter,

    >
    > Then vote to change the charter.
    > It's that simple.


    I'm open to suggestions. One possibility is to use a
    charter similar to alt.fan.bill-gates, which is filled
    with chatter (last I looked; I've not been in there in
    quite some time) which usually excoriates, vilifies,
    or disdains him and his alleged OS, or compares him to
    a garden pest, or (usually) both.

    > Frank


    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C/C++ Programming Idea #2239120:
    void f(char *p) {char *q = p; strcpy(p,q); }

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  18. Re: Even Mark Shuttleworth admits - "It would be reasonable to saythat this (Linux) is not ready for the mass market."

    The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

    >
    > I'm open to suggestions. One possibility is to use a
    > charter similar to alt.fan.bill-gates, which is filled
    > with chatter (last I looked; I've not been in there in
    > quite some time) which usually excoriates, vilifies,
    > or disdains him and his alleged OS, or compares him to
    > a garden pest, or (usually) both.
    >

    Ah yes...the collective wisdom of idiots, morons and imbeciles.
    Wonderful!
    Frank

  19. Re: Even Mark Shuttleworth admits - "It would be reasonable to say that this (Linux) is not ready for the mass market."

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Frank

    wrote
    on Tue, 04 Mar 2008 14:36:47 -0800
    <47cdcefb$0$30682$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>:
    > The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> I'm open to suggestions. One possibility is to use a
    >> charter similar to alt.fan.bill-gates, which is filled
    >> with chatter (last I looked; I've not been in there in
    >> quite some time) which usually excoriates, vilifies,
    >> or disdains him and his alleged OS, or compares him to
    >> a garden pest, or (usually) both.
    >>

    > Ah yes...the collective wisdom of idiots, morons and imbeciles.
    > Wonderful!


    I'm also open to serious suggestions. ;-) Clearly,
    this particular one is not one of them...

    As it is, I think Moshe Goldfarb wants to advocate
    competitors to Linux, specifically one rather large
    competitor located somewhere in the northwest continental
    United States... ;-)

    > Frank


    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C/C++ Programming Idea #11823822:
    signal(SIGKILL, catchkill);

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  20. Re: Even Mark Shuttleworth admits - "It would be reasonable to saythat this (Linux) is not ready for the mass market."

    The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Frank
    >
    > wrote
    > on Tue, 04 Mar 2008 14:36:47 -0800
    > <47cdcefb$0$30682$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>:
    >
    >>The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>I'm open to suggestions. One possibility is to use a
    >>>charter similar to alt.fan.bill-gates, which is filled
    >>>with chatter (last I looked; I've not been in there in
    >>>quite some time) which usually excoriates, vilifies,
    >>>or disdains him and his alleged OS, or compares him to
    >>>a garden pest, or (usually) both.
    >>>

    >>
    >>Ah yes...the collective wisdom of idiots, morons and imbeciles.
    >>Wonderful!

    >
    >
    > I'm also open to serious suggestions. ;-) Clearly,
    > this particular one is not one of them...


    You're kidding of course...:-)
    >
    > As it is, I think Moshe Goldfarb wants to advocate
    > competitors to Linux, specifically one rather large
    > competitor located somewhere in the northwest continental
    > United States... ;-)


    Yeah...the whole nine yards...LOL!
    >
    >
    >>Frank

    >
    >


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