Ubuntu Server just Standard + AMP? - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on Ubuntu Server just Standard + AMP? - Ubuntu ; Timothy Daniels wrote: > "Joe" wrote: >> "Timothy Daniels" wrote: >>> Thanks. Being more familiar with the Windows world, I >>> forgot that one could just download whatever wasn't on >>> the installation CD/DVD. Having a desktop environment >>> would ...

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Thread: Ubuntu Server just Standard + AMP?

  1. Re: Ubuntu Server just Standard + AMP?

    Timothy Daniels wrote:
    > "Joe" wrote:
    >> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
    >>> Thanks. Being more familiar with the Windows world, I
    >>> forgot that one could just download whatever wasn't on
    >>> the installation CD/DVD. Having a desktop environment
    >>> would be helpful to a newbie like me, although I don't
    >>> need it for demo'g the scripts that I wrote.
    >>>

    >> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
    >>
    >> -or-
    >>
    >> sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop

    >
    >
    > I give up. What do those command lines do,
    > and when should they be issued?


    Q What do those command lines do?
    A The "sudo" makes you superuser (required for installation of
    system-wide packages) and then download and install ("apt-get install")
    either the "ubuntu-desktop" (GNOME based) or the "kubuntu-desktop" (KDE
    based) packages and whatever is required for them to install and be
    used, e.g. a graphics base system.

    Q when should they be issued?
    A When you think you want to add a graphics desktop environment to your
    Ubuntu installation, e.g. after having installed the base
    "ubuntu-server" system.

    The idea is that on a "true" server, you might never log-in on the
    console or you just log-in to install and configure the server using
    command-line tools and then you access its services from remote. A
    number of services (e.g. CUPS or SAMBA) also have web-based
    configuration facilities , so you'll just need a browser to configure
    them. Some servers don't even have keyboard, mouse and display attached
    (imagine a server facility with tens of thousands of servers). (Note
    that the graphics base system, "X11", is, by design, network-based, so
    you could install graphics tools on a machine without
    keyboard/video/mouse and still run them on the server but have the user
    interface on a desktop).

    Also, the graphics desktop environments are quite "heavy", i.e. with all
    the icons, sounds, decorations and such, they tend to consume a
    considerable amount of disk space, which may be put to more productive use.

    BTDTGT,

    Josef
    --
    These are my personal views and not those of Fujitsu Siemens Computers!
    Josef Möllers (Pinguinpfleger bei FSC)
    If failure had no penalty success would not be a prize (T. Pratchett)
    Company Details: http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/imprint.html

  2. Re: Ubuntu Server just Standard + AMP?

    On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 18:14:37 -0800, Timothy Daniels wrote:

    > "prawn" wrote:
    >> Timothy Daniels wrote:
    >>
    >>> "Derek Turner" shared his "expertise":
    >>>> Timothy Daniels wrote:
    >>>>> Is the Ubuntu Server Edition just the standard Desktop Edition plus
    >>>>> Apache, MySQL, and PHP? Or does the "AMP" displace the standard
    >>>>> desktop apps?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> *TimDaniels*
    >>>> That info is easily available on their web-site.
    >>>
    >>> If "their" is Ubuntu.com's, what is listed on this page doesn't
    >>> say much:
    >>> http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whati.../serveredition

    >>
    >> To quote from that URL:
    >>
    >> "In around 15 minutes, the time it takes to install Ubuntu Server
    >> Edition, you can have a LAMP (Linux, Apache, MySQL and PHP) server up
    >> and ready to go. This feature, exclusive to Ubuntu Server Edition, is
    >> available at the time of installation."
    >>
    >> What more do you need to know?
    >>
    >> I would suggest you do some post install configuration, such as setting
    >> up passwords on MySQL as a minimum.

    >
    >
    > I'd hope to know if office productivity apps and CD/DVD authoring
    > utilities were on the installation DVD, for example. Just saying
    > that Apache and MySQL and PHP are there doesn't say more than that
    > Apache and MySQL and PHP are there.


    Um, I don't know. There will be no GUI applications installed because the
    server edition does not install X11, Gnome et al. Of course, anything
    that you want to install can be done from the repositories.


    --
    p BotM#1 LotR#9

  3. Re: Ubuntu Server just Standard + AMP?

    "prawn" wrote:
    > There will be no GUI applications installed because the
    > server edition does not install X11, Gnome et al.



    That sounds pretty spartan and severe. Are the
    Apache and MySQL servers usually managed by
    command line input?

    *TimDaniels*



  4. Re: Ubuntu Server just Standard + AMP?

    Timothy Daniels wrote:

    > "prawn" wrote:
    >> There will be no GUI applications installed because the
    >> server edition does not install X11, Gnome et al.

    >
    >
    > That sounds pretty spartan and severe. Are the
    > Apache and MySQL servers usually managed by
    > command line input?
    >
    > *TimDaniels*


    Why would you install a GUI on a *server* in the first place?
    This is not the idiotic windows way here. A GUI is simply not needed, and
    often also not wanted on a server

    Do you have any reason to believe that you can't access Apache or a Database
    remotely?

    --
    "The Microsoft Game" rules are very simple:
    1. If you play Microsoft's game, Microsoft wins.
    2. If you refuse to play Microsoft's game, Microsoft wins.
    3. Anytime you win, Microsoft gets to change the rules.


  5. Re: Ubuntu Server just Standard + AMP?

    "Josef Moellers" explained:
    > Timothy Daniels wrote:
    >> "Joe" wrote:
    >>> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
    >>>> Thanks. Being more familiar with the Windows world, I
    >>>> forgot that one could just download whatever wasn't on
    >>>> the installation CD/DVD. Having a desktop environment
    >>>> would be helpful to a newbie like me, although I don't
    >>>> need it for demo'g the scripts that I wrote.
    >>>>
    >>> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
    >>>
    >>> -or-
    >>>
    >>> sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop

    >>
    >>
    >> I give up. What do those command lines do,
    >> and when should they be issued?

    >
    > Q What do those command lines do?
    > A The "sudo" makes you superuser (required for installation of system-wide
    > packages) and then download and install ("apt-get install") either the
    > "ubuntu-desktop" (GNOME based) or the "kubuntu-desktop"
    > (KDE based) packages and whatever is required for them to install and
    > be used, e.g. a graphics base system.
    >
    > Q when should they be issued?
    > A When you think you want to add a graphics desktop environment
    > to your Ubuntu installation, e.g. after having installed the base
    > "ubuntu-server" system.
    >
    > The idea is that on a "true" server, you might never log-in on the console or
    > you just log-in to install and configure the server using command-line tools
    > and then you access its services from remote. A number of services (e.g. CUPS
    > or SAMBA) also have web-based configuration facilities , so you'll just need a
    > browser to configure them. Some servers don't even have keyboard, mouse and
    > display
    > attached (imagine a server facility with tens of thousands of servers).
    > (Note that the graphics base system, "X11", is, by design, network-
    > based, so you could install graphics tools on a machine without
    > keyboard/video/mouse and still run them on the server but have the
    > user interface on a desktop).
    >
    > Also, the graphics desktop environments are quite "heavy", i.e. with
    > all the icons, sounds, decorations and such, they tend to consume a
    > considerable amount of disk space, which may be put to more
    > productive use.
    >
    > BTDTGT,


    I have no idea what "BTDTGT" means, but thanks for the
    background on the commands and server management.

    *TimDaniels*



  6. Re: Ubuntu Server just Standard + AMP?

    On 2008-02-14, Timothy Daniels wrote:
    > "prawn" wrote:
    >> There will be no GUI applications installed because the
    >> server edition does not install X11, Gnome et al.

    >
    >
    > That sounds pretty spartan and severe. Are the
    > Apache and MySQL servers usually managed by
    > command line input?


    Indeed, they are. If you are running a dedicated server, there is no
    point in having a Desktop environment taking up cpu and RAM.

    --
    Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
    joe at hits - buffalo dot com
    "Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
    time..." - Danny, American History X

  7. Re: Ubuntu Server just Standard + AMP?

    Joe writes:

    > On 2008-02-14, Timothy Daniels wrote:
    >> "prawn" wrote:
    >>> There will be no GUI applications installed because the
    >>> server edition does not install X11, Gnome et al.

    >>
    >>
    >> That sounds pretty spartan and severe. Are the
    >> Apache and MySQL servers usually managed by
    >> command line input?

    >
    > Indeed, they are. If you are running a dedicated server, there is no
    > point in having a Desktop environment taking up cpu and RAM.


    If one ones to run certain program over the net using x-forwaring, a
    lot of apps wont exist without a desktop env installed on that machine
    afaik. You certainly need X at the very least.

  8. Re: Ubuntu Server just Standard + AMP?

    On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 03:33:46 -0800, Timothy Daniels wrote:

    > "prawn" wrote:
    >> There will be no GUI applications installed because the server edition
    >> does not install X11, Gnome et al.

    >
    >
    > That sounds pretty spartan and severe. Are the
    > Apache and MySQL servers usually managed by command line input?


    Ah OK. Now we have your level of expectations, you would probably be
    better off installing a vanilla Ubuntu and installing LAMP after the
    event. It's easy and documented all over the place.


    --
    p BotM#1 LotR#9

  9. Re: Ubuntu Server just Standard + AMP?

    Joe illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    > On 2008-02-14, Timothy Daniels wrote:
    >> "prawn" wrote:
    >>> There will be no GUI applications installed because the
    >>> server edition does not install X11, Gnome et al.

    >>
    >>
    >> That sounds pretty spartan and severe. Are the
    >> Apache and MySQL servers usually managed by
    >> command line input?

    >
    > Indeed, they are. If you are running a dedicated server, there is no
    > point in having a Desktop environment taking up cpu and RAM.


    It can be handy to set up a minimal XFCE one. It can come in handy if
    you want to VNC in. Certain graphical assistance to such things as
    cups, apache and MySQL can also be handy.

    Oooh. Handily, it was quite handy using the word handy in this
    response.

    --
    Moog

    "If this is gonna be that kinda party I'm gonna stick my dick in the
    mashed potatoes"

  10. Re: Ubuntu Server just Standard + AMP?

    In <61iuauF1urhkbU1@mid.individual.net> Moog:

    [Snip...]

    > Oooh. Handily, it was quite handy using the word handy in this response.


    Somebody seems to have had some pints for lunch at the local pub.

    --
    Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
    Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.
    Really, it's (wyrd) at airmail, dotted with net. DO NOT SPAM IT.
    Kids jumping ship? Looking to hire an old-school type? Email me.

  11. Re: Ubuntu Server just Standard + AMP?

    Harold Stevens illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    > In <61iuauF1urhkbU1@mid.individual.net> Moog:
    >
    > [Snip...]
    >
    >> Oooh. Handily, it was quite handy using the word handy in this response.

    >
    > Somebody seems to have had some pints for lunch at the local pub.


    I wish, Harold. I wish. ;-)

    --
    Moog

    "If this is gonna be that kinda party I'm gonna stick my dick in the
    mashed potatoes"

  12. Re: Ubuntu Server just Standard + AMP?

    Moog writes:

    > Joe illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >> On 2008-02-14, Timothy Daniels wrote:
    >>> "prawn" wrote:
    >>>> There will be no GUI applications installed because the
    >>>> server edition does not install X11, Gnome et al.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> That sounds pretty spartan and severe. Are the
    >>> Apache and MySQL servers usually managed by
    >>> command line input?

    >>
    >> Indeed, they are. If you are running a dedicated server, there is no
    >> point in having a Desktop environment taking up cpu and RAM.

    >
    > It can be handy to set up a minimal XFCE one. It can come in handy if
    > you want to VNC in. Certain graphical assistance to such things as
    > cups, apache and MySQL can also be handy.
    >
    > Oooh. Handily, it was quite handy using the word handy in this
    > response.


    I would advise against vnc. Primarily because you might also catch
    someone doing something they dont want you to see and you dont want to
    either ....

    Enable x-forwarding on the remote machine (/etc/ssh(sshd_config). ssh
    in. issue "sux" if you must run as root (at least on debian). run the
    graphics application on the remote and the display appears on your local
    desktop. very, very nice and secure.

  13. Re: Ubuntu Server just Standard + AMP?

    Timothy Daniels wrote:

    > "prawn" wrote:
    >> There will be no GUI applications installed because the
    >> server edition does not install X11, Gnome et al.

    >
    >
    > That sounds pretty spartan and severe. Are the
    > Apache and MySQL servers usually managed by
    > command line input?
    >
    > *TimDaniels*


    Yes, that's how a server should run.

    Cheers.

    --
    The world can't afford the rich.

  14. Re: Ubuntu Server just Standard + AMP?

    Timothy Daniels wrote:
    > "Josef Moellers" explained:



    >> BTDTGT,

    >
    > I have no idea what "BTDTGT" means, but thanks for the
    > background on the commands and server management.


    Been There, Done That, Got T-Shirt (i.e. I've done it myself
    successfully). Apparently this idiom comes from a PC game called Monkey
    Island, although I picked it up in some other newsgroup.

    --
    These are my personal views and not those of Fujitsu Siemens Computers!
    Josef Möllers (Pinguinpfleger bei FSC)
    If failure had no penalty success would not be a prize (T. Pratchett)
    Company Details: http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/imprint.html

  15. Re: Ubuntu Server just Standard + AMP?

    Timothy Daniels wrote:
    > Is the Ubuntu Server Edition just the standard Desktop
    > Edition plus Apache, MySQL, and PHP? Or does the
    > "AMP" displace the standard desktop apps?
    >
    > *TimDaniels*


    I've noticed that the server edition uses a different kernel
    package (linux-server). I expect it is compiled with a few
    options set differently. Note that the server kernel package
    is available in the repositories, so you can easily convert
    your desktop system over to it if you really want to turn a
    desktop into a server. If you want it to be a 'headless'
    server, just uninstall the gnome desktop manager (gdm).

    Thad
    --
    Yeah, I drank the Open Source cool-aid... Unlike the other brand, it had
    all the ingredients on the label.

  16. Re: Ubuntu Server just Standard + AMP?

    On 2008-02-14, Moog wrote:
    >
    > It can be handy to set up a minimal XFCE one. It can come in handy if
    > you want to VNC in. Certain graphical assistance to such things as
    > cups, apache and MySQL can also be handy.


    I am seriously unimpressed with the GUI tools available for all of
    those. The only graphical tool that I have found useful for such
    things is webmin. And it requires no DE on the server. And you can
    remote in just fine with ssh... ;-)

    Not to say that there are no possible reasons for having a DE on the
    server, but if it is something like a web server, it really isn't
    necessary at all, and not at all "severe" to not have one...

    >
    > Oooh. Handily, it was quite handy using the word handy in this
    > response.
    >


    Proud of yerself, are ya? ;-)


    --
    Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
    joe at hits - buffalo dot com
    "Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
    time..." - Danny, American History X

  17. Re: Ubuntu Server just Standard + AMP?

    "prawn" sighed:
    > Timothy Daniels wrote:
    >
    >> "prawn" wrote:
    >>> There will be no GUI applications installed because the
    >>> server edition does not install X11, Gnome et al.

    >>
    >>
    >> That sounds pretty spartan and severe. Are the
    >> Apache and MySQL servers usually managed by
    >> command line input?

    >
    > Ah OK. Now we have your level of expectations, you
    > would probably be better off installing a vanilla Ubuntu
    > and installing LAMP after the event. It's easy and
    > documented all over the place.



    Thanks. "Documented all over the place" sounds really
    good at this point. :-)

    *TimDaniels*



  18. Re: Ubuntu Server just Standard + AMP?

    "NoStop" wrote:
    > Timothy Daniels wrote:
    >
    >> "prawn" wrote:
    >>> There will be no GUI applications installed because the
    >>> server edition does not install X11, Gnome et al.

    >>
    >>
    >> That sounds pretty spartan and severe. Are the
    >> Apache and MySQL servers usually managed by
    >> command line input?
    >>
    >> *TimDaniels*

    >
    > Yes, that's how a server should run.



    OK, I see the reasoning, now. I've just had a desktop mindset
    for years and not an admin's mindset.

    *TimDaniels*



  19. Re: Ubuntu Server just Standard + AMP?

    "Josef Moellers" wrote
    > Timothy Daniels wrote:
    >> "Josef Moellers" explained:
    >>> BTDTGT,

    >>
    >> I have no idea what "BTDTGT" means, but thanks for the
    >> background on the commands and server management.

    >
    > Been There, Done That, Got T-Shirt (i.e. I've done it myself successfully).
    > Apparently this idiom comes from a PC game
    > called Monkey Island, although I picked it up in some other
    > newsgroup.


    TIDNKT!

    *TimDaniels*



  20. Re: Ubuntu Server just Standard + AMP?

    "Thad" wrote:
    > Timothy Daniels wrote:
    >> Is the Ubuntu Server Edition just the standard Desktop
    >> Edition plus Apache, MySQL, and PHP? Or does the
    >> "AMP" displace the standard desktop apps?
    >>
    >> *TimDaniels*

    >
    > I've noticed that the server edition uses a different kernel
    > package (linux-server). I expect it is compiled with a few
    > options set differently. Note that the server kernel package
    > is available in the repositories, so you can easily convert
    > your desktop system over to it if you really want to turn a
    > desktop into a server. If you want it to be a 'headless'
    > server, just uninstall the gnome desktop manager (gdm).



    Thanks. For having servers available for simply demo'g
    some AJAX apps, the "server-with-a-head" option sounds
    simplest to run, so using GNOME sounds best for me.
    Do you think it would be simpler to get the Server Edition and
    add GNOME, or get the Standard Edition and add Apache
    and MySQL?

    *TimDaniels*



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