install Ubuntu into NTFS partition? - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on install Ubuntu into NTFS partition? - Ubuntu ; Gutsy Gibbon is described as having improved NTFS capability. Does that mean that Ubuntu can now be *installed* into an NTFS partition? If so, can the Gutsy installation CD/DVD format a partition for NTFS before doing the installation? Or does ...

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Thread: install Ubuntu into NTFS partition?

  1. install Ubuntu into NTFS partition?

    Gutsy Gibbon is described as having improved NTFS
    capability. Does that mean that Ubuntu can now be
    *installed* into an NTFS partition? If so, can the Gutsy
    installation CD/DVD format a partition for NTFS before
    doing the installation? Or does the NTFS driver "NTFS 3G"
    have to be somehow installed before the Ubuntu installation?
    (Sorta Chicken/Egg thing, it seems.)

    *TimDaniels*



  2. Re: install Ubuntu into NTFS partition?

    Timothy Daniels wrote:
    > Gutsy Gibbon is described as having improved NTFS
    > capability. Does that mean that Ubuntu can now be
    > *installed* into an NTFS partition? If so, can the Gutsy
    > installation CD/DVD format a partition for NTFS before
    > doing the installation? Or does the NTFS driver "NTFS 3G"
    > have to be somehow installed before the Ubuntu installation?
    > (Sorta Chicken/Egg thing, it seems.)
    >
    > *TimDaniels*
    >
    >


    Why the /fsck/ would you want to?

  3. Re: install Ubuntu into NTFS partition?

    Timothy Daniels wrote:
    > Gutsy Gibbon is described as having improved NTFS
    > capability. Does that mean that Ubuntu can now be
    > *installed* into an NTFS partition?


    No.

    --
    Mark Warner
    SimplyMEPIS Linux v6.5
    Registered Linux User #415318
    ....lose .inhibitions when replying

  4. Re: install Ubuntu into NTFS partition?

    Derek Turner wrote:

    > Timothy Daniels wrote:
    >> Gutsy Gibbon is described as having improved NTFS
    >> capability. Does that mean that Ubuntu can now be
    >> *installed* into an NTFS partition? If so, can the Gutsy
    >> installation CD/DVD format a partition for NTFS before
    >> doing the installation? Or does the NTFS driver "NTFS 3G"
    >> have to be somehow installed before the Ubuntu installation?
    >> (Sorta Chicken/Egg thing, it seems.)
    >>
    >> *TimDaniels*
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Why the /fsck/ would you want to?


    Never mind want to, you can't. NTFS doesn't handle file permissions as
    required by Linux.

    Cheers.

    --
    The world can't afford the rich.

  5. Re: install Ubuntu into NTFS partition?

    "NoStop" wrote:
    > Derek Turner wrote:
    >
    >> Timothy Daniels wrote:
    >>> Gutsy Gibbon is described as having improved NTFS
    >>> capability. Does that mean that Ubuntu can now be
    >>> *installed* into an NTFS partition? If so, can the Gutsy
    >>> installation CD/DVD format a partition for NTFS before
    >>> doing the installation? Or does the NTFS driver "NTFS 3G"
    >>> have to be somehow installed before the Ubuntu installation?
    >>> (Sorta Chicken/Egg thing, it seems.)
    >>>
    >>> *TimDaniels*
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Why the /fsck/ would you want to?

    >
    > Never mind want to, you can't.
    > NTFS doesn't handle file permissions as required by Linux.



    OK. Thanks. Since I hope to dual- or triple-boot with Vista
    and maybe XP, I was hoping that each could access all the
    other partitions. (It will be for demo'ing functionality, and security
    will not be a concern since there will be no other users and no
    connection to the Internet.)

    *TimDaniels*



  6. Re: install Ubuntu into NTFS partition?

    On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:30:53 -0800, Timothy Daniels wrote:
    >
    > OK. Thanks. Since I hope to dual- or triple-boot with Vista
    > and maybe XP, I was hoping that each could access all the
    > other partitions.



    In that case, you install each OS in it's own partition formatted by
    each OS.

    I run a multi-boot setup which has a XP Home install, HP Recovery
    partition and several different linux distributions installed.

  7. Re: install Ubuntu into NTFS partition?

    Timothy Daniels wrote:

    > "NoStop" wrote:
    >> Derek Turner wrote:
    >>
    >>> Timothy Daniels wrote:
    >>>> Gutsy Gibbon is described as having improved NTFS
    >>>> capability. Does that mean that Ubuntu can now be
    >>>> *installed* into an NTFS partition? If so, can the Gutsy
    >>>> installation CD/DVD format a partition for NTFS before
    >>>> doing the installation? Or does the NTFS driver "NTFS 3G"
    >>>> have to be somehow installed before the Ubuntu installation?
    >>>> (Sorta Chicken/Egg thing, it seems.)
    >>>>
    >>>> *TimDaniels*
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Why the /fsck/ would you want to?

    >>
    >> Never mind want to, you can't.
    >> NTFS doesn't handle file permissions as required by Linux.

    >
    >
    > OK. Thanks. Since I hope to dual- or triple-boot with Vista
    > and maybe XP, I was hoping that each could access all the
    > other partitions. (It will be for demo'ing functionality, and security
    > will not be a concern since there will be no other users and no
    > connection to the Internet.)
    >
    > *TimDaniels*


    Each o/s can access the filesystems of the other operating systems with the
    proper drivers installed. That isn't the same thing as trying to install
    Linux on an NTFS partition. :-)

    Cheers.

    --
    The world can't afford the rich.

  8. Re: install Ubuntu into NTFS partition?

    "Timothy Daniels" writes:

    > "NoStop" wrote:
    >> Derek Turner wrote:
    >>
    >>> Timothy Daniels wrote:
    >>>> Gutsy Gibbon is described as having improved NTFS
    >>>> capability. Does that mean that Ubuntu can now be
    >>>> *installed* into an NTFS partition? If so, can the Gutsy
    >>>> installation CD/DVD format a partition for NTFS before
    >>>> doing the installation? Or does the NTFS driver "NTFS 3G"
    >>>> have to be somehow installed before the Ubuntu installation?
    >>>> (Sorta Chicken/Egg thing, it seems.)
    >>>>
    >>>> *TimDaniels*
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Why the /fsck/ would you want to?

    >>
    >> Never mind want to, you can't.
    >> NTFS doesn't handle file permissions as required by Linux.

    >
    >
    > OK. Thanks. Since I hope to dual- or triple-boot with Vista
    > and maybe XP, I was hoping that each could access all the
    > other partitions. (It will be for demo'ing functionality, and security
    > will not be a concern since there will be no other users and no
    > connection to the Internet.)


    You can access the other filesystems. Both ways. Windows has drivers for
    ext3, Linux has ntfs/fat32 drivers too.

    This is not the same as installing Linux on NTFS.

    Although of course you *CAN* if you want ...... well, you can store a
    Linux image on NTFS and run it in VMWare :-;

  9. Re: install Ubuntu into NTFS partition?

    NoStop illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:

    > Each o/s can access the filesystems of the other operating systems with the
    > proper drivers installed. That isn't the same thing as trying to install
    > Linux on an NTFS partition. :-)


    "wubi" springs to mind

    --
    Moog

    "If this is gonna be that kinda party I'm gonna stick my dick in the
    mashed potatoes"

  10. Re: install Ubuntu into NTFS partition?

    Timothy Daniels wrote:

    > Gutsy Gibbon is described as having improved NTFS
    > capability. Does that mean that Ubuntu can now be
    > *installed* into an NTFS partition? If so, can the Gutsy
    > installation CD/DVD format a partition for NTFS before
    > doing the installation? Or does the NTFS driver "NTFS 3G"
    > have to be somehow installed before the Ubuntu installation?
    > (Sorta Chicken/Egg thing, it seems.)
    >

    With ntfs-3g, linux can read and write NTFS, but since the concept of
    UID-user assignments stored in registry is alien to linux, it won't be able
    to handle permissions. Basically, NTFS support in linux is similar to
    FAT32, just that you can store bigger files (>4G).
    Therefore, if you want to install linux "inside" a ntfs partition, it would
    have to be a loopback container with a dedicated linux filesystem inside.
    On the other side, linux installers may be able to shrink a windows
    partition, install the OS into the freed part of the disk, and modify the
    bootmanager.

    --
    vista policy violation: Microsoft optical mouse found penguin patterns
    on mousepad. Partition scan in progress to remove offending
    incompatible products. Reactivate MS software.
    Linux 2.6.23.9-2mdvtmbcustom. [LinuxCounter#295241,ICQ#4918962]

  11. Re: install Ubuntu into NTFS partition?

    "Bit Twister" wrote:
    > Timothy Daniels wrote:
    >>
    >> OK. Thanks. Since I hope to dual- or triple-boot with
    >> Vista and maybe XP, I was hoping that each could access
    >> all the other partitions.

    >
    >
    > In that case, you install each OS in it's own partition formatted
    > by each OS.
    >
    > I run a multi-boot setup which has a XP Home install, HP
    > Recovery partition and several different linux distributions
    > installed.


    I figured if they were all in NTFS partitions, no special
    drivers would be needed for Windows to read the Linux
    data files and for Linux to read the Windows data files,
    many of the files being in one of the OSs' home partition.
    The question wasn't about how to accomplish dual- or triple-
    booting.

    *TimDaniels*



  12. Re: install Ubuntu into NTFS partition?

    NoStop wrote:


    >> Why the /fsck/ would you want to?

    >
    > Never mind want to, you can't. NTFS doesn't handle file permissions as
    > required by Linux.


    However, umsdos got around that for FAT partitions. Not heard of anything
    similar for NTFS - but then I've not tried looking.

    Pete

    --
    http://www.petezilla.co.uk

  13. Re: install Ubuntu into NTFS partition?

    Bit Twister wrote:

    > In that case, you install each OS in it's own partition formatted by
    > each OS.
    >
    > I run a multi-boot setup which has a XP Home install, HP Recovery
    > partition and several different linux distributions installed.


    You can get an ext2 (/3?) driver for XP. It does not respect linux
    permissions but you can read and write.

    Pete

    --
    http://www.petezilla.co.uk

  14. Re: install Ubuntu into NTFS partition?

    "NoStop" wrote:
    > Timothy Daniels wrote:
    >
    >> "NoStop" wrote:
    >>> Derek Turner wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Timothy Daniels wrote:
    >>>>> Gutsy Gibbon is described as having improved NTFS
    >>>>> capability. Does that mean that Ubuntu can now be
    >>>>> *installed* into an NTFS partition? If so, can the Gutsy
    >>>>> installation CD/DVD format a partition for NTFS before
    >>>>> doing the installation? Or does the NTFS driver "NTFS 3G"
    >>>>> have to be somehow installed before the Ubuntu installation?
    >>>>> (Sorta Chicken/Egg thing, it seems.)
    >>>>>
    >>>>> *TimDaniels*
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Why the /fsck/ would you want to?
    >>>
    >>> Never mind want to, you can't.
    >>> NTFS doesn't handle file permissions as required by Linux.

    >>
    >>
    >> OK. Thanks. Since I hope to dual- or triple-boot with Vista
    >> and maybe XP, I was hoping that each could access all the
    >> other partitions. (It will be for demo'ing functionality, and security
    >> will not be a concern since there will be no other users and no
    >> connection to the Internet.)
    >>
    >> *TimDaniels*

    >
    > Each o/s can access the filesystems of the other operating systems with the
    > proper drivers installed. That isn't the same thing as trying to install
    > Linux on an NTFS partition. :-)



    Yeah, I was just trying to avoid having to use special drivers for one
    brand of OS to access the files of the other brand of OS. BTW, there's
    a short article on sharing files between Windows and Linux in March's
    PC Magazine (p. 116). It mentions NTFS-3G, Samba, and NTFS for
    Linux as solutions.

    *TimDaniels*



  15. Re: install Ubuntu into NTFS partition?

    "Moog" wrote:
    > NoStop illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >
    >> Each o/s can access the filesystems of the other operating systems
    >> with the proper drivers installed. That isn't the same thing as trying
    >> to install Linux on an NTFS partition. :-)

    >
    > "wubi" springs to mind



    Wubi sounds cute - with some reservations. It's betaware, and
    some forum postings mention a few bugs and there's mention of
    real slowness. And it's not clear whether Windows could read the
    files under Linux since the NTFS files, in acting as the media for the
    Linux files, would be one down from the Linux files. I.e., the Linux
    metadata would be seen as data by Windows. It's worth keeping
    an eye on it, though.

    *TimDaniels*



  16. Re: install Ubuntu into NTFS partition?

    "Timothy Daniels" writes:

    > "Moog" wrote:
    >> NoStop illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >>
    >>> Each o/s can access the filesystems of the other operating systems
    >>> with the proper drivers installed. That isn't the same thing as trying
    >>> to install Linux on an NTFS partition. :-)

    >>
    >> "wubi" springs to mind

    >
    >
    > Wubi sounds cute - with some reservations. It's betaware, and
    > some forum postings mention a few bugs and there's mention of
    > real slowness. And it's not clear whether Windows could read the
    > files under Linux since the NTFS files, in acting as the media for the
    > Linux files, would be one down from the Linux files. I.e., the Linux
    > metadata would be seen as data by Windows. It's worth keeping
    > an eye on it, though.
    >
    > *TimDaniels*
    >
    >


    Wonderful!

    http://wubi-installer.org/screenshots.php

    Would you trust someone who can not configure their own webserver to
    serve php files properly?

  17. Re: install Ubuntu into NTFS partition?

    Moog wrote:

    > NoStop illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >
    >> Each o/s can access the filesystems of the other operating systems with
    >> the proper drivers installed. That isn't the same thing as trying to
    >> install Linux on an NTFS partition. :-)

    >
    > "wubi" springs to mind
    >

    Yeh, well the best that could happen with that thing is that it springs out
    of mind.

    Cheers.

    --
    The world can't afford the rich.

  18. Re: install Ubuntu into NTFS partition?

    "Hadron" wrote:
    > "Timothy Daniels" writes:
    >
    >> "NoStop" wrote:
    >>> Derek Turner wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Timothy Daniels wrote:
    >>>>> Gutsy Gibbon is described as having improved NTFS
    >>>>> capability. Does that mean that Ubuntu can now be
    >>>>> *installed* into an NTFS partition? If so, can the Gutsy
    >>>>> installation CD/DVD format a partition for NTFS before
    >>>>> doing the installation? Or does the NTFS driver "NTFS 3G"
    >>>>> have to be somehow installed before the Ubuntu installation?
    >>>>> (Sorta Chicken/Egg thing, it seems.)
    >>>>>
    >>>>> *TimDaniels*
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Why the /fsck/ would you want to?
    >>>
    >>> Never mind want to, you can't.
    >>> NTFS doesn't handle file permissions as required by Linux.

    >>
    >>
    >> OK. Thanks. Since I hope to dual- or triple-boot with Vista
    >> and maybe XP, I was hoping that each could access all the
    >> other partitions. (It will be for demo'ing functionality, and security
    >> will not be a concern since there will be no other users and no
    >> connection to the Internet.)

    >
    > You can access the other filesystems. Both ways. Windows has
    > drivers for ext3, Linux has ntfs/fat32 drivers too.
    >
    > This is not the same as installing Linux on NTFS.
    >
    > Although of course you *CAN* if you want ...... well, you can
    > store a Linux image on NTFS and run it in VMWare :-;


    Thanks. I didn't know that there were drivers to allow Windows
    to read ext3 formatting. It would have been nice not to need
    special drivers, though - something I expected would be the case
    if Linux could be installed on an NTFS partition.

    I've been aware of the virtualization option for some time, now.
    But that seems to be just another layer of learning curves and
    potential headaches at this point. It's a beautiful concept, though.

    *TimDaniels*



  19. Re: install Ubuntu into NTFS partition?

    "Mark Warner" answered:
    > Timothy Daniels wrote:
    >> Gutsy Gibbon is described as having improved NTFS
    >> capability. Does that mean that Ubuntu can now be
    >> *installed* into an NTFS partition?

    >
    > No.



    "No"? What is it about "No" that you mean? :-))

    *TimDaniels*



  20. Re: install Ubuntu into NTFS partition?

    "Walter Mautner" wrote:
    > Timothy Daniels wrote:
    >
    >> Gutsy Gibbon is described as having improved NTFS
    >> capability. Does that mean that Ubuntu can now be
    >> *installed* into an NTFS partition? If so, can the Gutsy
    >> installation CD/DVD format a partition for NTFS before
    >> doing the installation? Or does the NTFS driver "NTFS 3G"
    >> have to be somehow installed before the Ubuntu installation?
    >> (Sorta Chicken/Egg thing, it seems.)
    >>

    > With ntfs-3g, linux can read and write NTFS, but since the concept
    > of UID-user assignments stored in registry is alien to linux, it won't
    > be able to handle permissions. Basically, NTFS support in linux is
    > similar to FAT32, just that you can store bigger files (>4G).
    > Therefore, if you want to install linux "inside" a ntfs partition, it would
    > have to be a loopback container with a dedicated linux filesystem
    > inside. On the other side, linux installers may be able to shrink a
    > windows partition, install the OS into the freed part of the disk,
    > and modify the bootmanager.



    Thanks for the explanation. It always helps.

    *TimDaniels*



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