Dell and DVD Playback - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on Dell and DVD Playback - Ubuntu ; On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 20:15:27 -0500, caver1 wrote: > After all I don't know if I am smart enough to think for myself. Sig alert! Oh yes! -- Chris Game "A witty saying proves nothing." -- Voltaire...

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Thread: Dell and DVD Playback

  1. Re: Dell and DVD Playback

    On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 20:15:27 -0500, caver1 wrote:

    > After all I don't know if I am smart enough to think for myself.


    Sig alert! Oh yes!

    --
    Chris Game

    "A witty saying proves nothing." -- Voltaire

  2. Re: Dell and DVD Playback

    On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 23:07:20 -0500, MarkA wrote:

    > On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 20:15:27 -0500, caver1 wrote:
    >
    >> MarkA wrote:
    >>> On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:50:41 +1100, andrew wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Hi,
    >>>>
    >>>> Just read the following from Dell and the Ubuntu newsletter:
    >>>>
    >>>> http://tinyurl.com/yrgzc3
    >>>>
    >>>> and the quote that stuck in my mind was:
    >>>>
    >>>> ".... we now include built-in DVD movie playback with all Ubuntu 7.10
    >>>> systems.The experience we wanted is simple - when you put a movie in,
    >>>> it plays. It is easy enough for a child and an example of the steps
    >>>> we are taking to make Ubuntu as enjoyable as possible."
    >>>>
    >>>> Is that really the path that Ubuntu should walk: "easy enough for a
    >>>> child"??? It is my opinion, and I realise that this is controversial,
    >>>> that this would be a grave mistake.
    >>>>
    >>>> Andrew
    >>>
    >>> It was my understanding that the reason Linux distros don't include
    >>> DVD players by default is because the terms of the agreement necessary
    >>> to obtain a license and decryption keys to *legally* play DVDs specify
    >>> that the end-user must not be able to access the decrypted content.
    >>> This is completely against the whole philosophy of "Free/Open Source
    >>> Software", which basically says that the end-user can do anything he
    >>> wants with his computer and its software.
    >>>
    >>> If Dell is supplying a DVD player that can handle commercially
    >>> produced DVD movies, I would presume that it is a closed
    >>> source/proprietary product added on the the Ubuntu distro.
    >>>
    >>> I have no objection to making Linux easy-to-use. What offends the
    >>> Linux/FOSS community is the idea that users *must not* have access to
    >>> the inner workings of their OS.
    >>>
    >>> Linux is like a car: some people just want it to get them from point
    >>> A to point B, without worrying about the details. Other people like
    >>> to tweak the timing, modify the cam shaft, enlarge the intake
    >>> manifold, etc, etc. FOSS lets you tinker if you like. Closed software
    >>> means that you are not allowed to open the hood.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >> That's true. But at the same time we are free to add any software that
    >> we want. Look at the ones that want to play closed source games through
    >> Wine. Its their choice.
    >> Or should all of us bow to the FOSS Nazis and ony use what they tell us
    >> we can.
    >> After all I don't know if I am smart enough to think for myself. caver1

    >
    > The FOSS evangelists would probably recommend that you use a FOSS
    > product in preference to a closed one whenever possible, but the bottom
    > line is that it is all about freedom. If you want to set up your Linux
    > box as a virtual machine to run Vista, you'll get a lot of puzzled
    > looks, and some would (legitimately) question your sanity, but nobody
    > around here would say that you can't do that. Ironically, the only one
    > who would tell you that you were wrong in that situation would be
    > Microsoft; they do not allow installation of Vista on a virtual machine.


    Actually they do, however only Vista Business or Ultimate.

    --
    Stephan
    2003 Yamaha R6

    君の事思い出す日なんてないのは
    君の事忘れたときがないから

  3. Re: Dell and DVD Playback

    On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:27:36 -0500, MarkA wrote:


    > Linux is like a car: some people just want it to get them from point A
    > to point B, without worrying about the details. Other people like to
    > tweak the timing, modify the cam shaft, enlarge the intake manifold,
    > etc, etc. FOSS lets you tinker if you like. Closed software means that
    > you are not allowed to open the hood.


    So that car principle is being upheld perfectly fine.

    Those who just want to get from A and B can use the Dell car.
    Those who want to tweak can just go to www.ubuntu.com

    Easy enough...

    --
    Stephan
    2003 Yamaha R6

    君の事思い出す日なんてないのは
    君の事忘れたときがないから

  4. Re: Dell and DVD Playback

    On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 16:34:11 +1100, andrew wrote:

    > On 2007-12-31, Little Gorm wrote:
    >>>
    >>> For the love of God, so what! Why should Linux be difficult to use.
    >>> Why is this controversial? Why would it be a mistake?
    >>>
    >>> What the hell's wrong with a child being able to operate a computer?
    >>> Oh yes, what a gave mistake. Get lost.
    >>>

    >> Amen! You are absolutely right! There are those here who want to be the
    >> dark practicioners of their Linux art. God forbid that something in
    >> Linux is easy! Can't have that. After all if it was easy, how could
    >> they come here and insult all the newbies?

    >
    > Well I have never been one to insult anyone and I have in fact moved on
    > from my own newbie status to providing a little assistance here and
    > there. Just to back up my words with a few concrete examples:
    >
    > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=475246
    > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=558538
    > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=535950
    > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=565326
    >
    > etc.. Hence my being a little taken aback at being though of as
    > insulting newbies.
    >
    > But if we can move away from the idea of me snatching computers from
    > children has anyone had a look at LinDVD which is the software in
    > question? It is /very/ closed source and I believe instigates a few
    > region coding bars upon users.
    >


    The problem with region coding is that it isn't a problem for *most*
    users. If it was, then it'd probably be gone long ago.

    Most people don't go outside their region to buy a DVD. I mean, how many
    people living in the US are going to buy a non-US coded DVD? How many
    people in Europe are going to buy a non-Europe coded DVD?

    The masses don't buy DVDs from other regions. They just go to their local
    rental store or media store and buy what is locally available.

    Really, the only people who significantly run into region coding problems
    is the upper percentile that most likely speaks multiple languages and
    that therefore have the need/want to buy DVDs from other regions. Maybe
    they just prefer to watch their content in another language, or maybe
    their content is only available in a certain region.

    In my case for instance, I refuse to watch movies from the US in any
    language but English. Though in that regard I do have it easy as no
    matter where one buys a movie DVD of an US movie, there'll usually be the
    english sound track on there.

    However, there are also things exclusive to Germany I watch. Those aren't
    even available outside of Germany. Same goes with DVDs I have from Japan
    that are only available in Japan. Both of those cases, region coding is a
    problem for me and anyone in my situation.

    But unfortunately, not enough people like myself are affected by that.
    Companies rather loose a few tiny sales than give up their DRM it seems.

    That's one of the things I absolutely love about libdvdcss2! Legal or
    not, I really don't give a crap. I am going to watch the content I
    purchased, period.

    But if Dell wants to release a version of Ubuntu with a legal media
    player that doesn't adversely affected the masses that don't even know
    what region coding is...I'm fine with that. I'd never buy a Dell in the
    first place. And even if, I'd be easy enough to wipe the default
    installation and put on my own custom Ubuntu installation.

    This is actually also one of the things that put a very major nail into
    Vista's coffin for me. I had software I used under WinXP that did the
    same thing that libdvdcss2 does to allow me to use my DVDs the way *I*
    want to. However it seems that there is no support for this software for
    Vista. Not even now almost a year later, which I suspect is due to
    Vista's DRM.

    --
    Stephan
    2003 Yamaha R6

    君の事思い出す日なんてないのは
    君の事忘れたときがないから

  5. Re: Dell and DVD Playback

    MarkA wrote:
    > On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 20:15:27 -0500, caver1 wrote:
    >
    >> MarkA wrote:
    >>> On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:50:41 +1100, andrew wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Hi,
    >>>>
    >>>> Just read the following from Dell and the Ubuntu newsletter:
    >>>>
    >>>> http://tinyurl.com/yrgzc3
    >>>>
    >>>> and the quote that stuck in my mind was:
    >>>>
    >>>> ".... we now include built-in DVD movie playback with all Ubuntu 7.10
    >>>> systems.The experience we wanted is simple - when you put a movie in,
    >>>> it plays. It is easy enough for a child and an example of the steps we
    >>>> are taking to make Ubuntu as enjoyable as possible."
    >>>>
    >>>> Is that really the path that Ubuntu should walk: "easy enough for a
    >>>> child"??? It is my opinion, and I realise that this is controversial,
    >>>> that this would be a grave mistake.
    >>>>
    >>>> Andrew
    >>> It was my understanding that the reason Linux distros don't include DVD
    >>> players by default is because the terms of the agreement necessary to
    >>> obtain a license and decryption keys to *legally* play DVDs specify
    >>> that the end-user must not be able to access the decrypted content.
    >>> This is completely against the whole philosophy of "Free/Open Source
    >>> Software", which basically says that the end-user can do anything he
    >>> wants with his computer and its software.
    >>>
    >>> If Dell is supplying a DVD player that can handle commercially produced
    >>> DVD movies, I would presume that it is a closed source/proprietary
    >>> product added on the the Ubuntu distro.
    >>>
    >>> I have no objection to making Linux easy-to-use. What offends the
    >>> Linux/FOSS community is the idea that users *must not* have access to
    >>> the inner workings of their OS.
    >>>
    >>> Linux is like a car: some people just want it to get them from point A
    >>> to point B, without worrying about the details. Other people like to
    >>> tweak the timing, modify the cam shaft, enlarge the intake manifold,
    >>> etc, etc. FOSS lets you tinker if you like. Closed software means that
    >>> you are not allowed to open the hood.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> That's true. But at the same time we are free to add any software that
    >> we want. Look at the ones that want to play closed source games through
    >> Wine. Its their choice.
    >> Or should all of us bow to the FOSS Nazis and ony use what they tell us
    >> we can.
    >> After all I don't know if I am smart enough to think for myself.
    >> caver1

    >
    > The FOSS evangelists would probably recommend that you use a FOSS product
    > in preference to a closed one whenever possible, but the bottom line is
    > that it is all about freedom. If you want to set up your Linux box as a
    > virtual machine to run Vista, you'll get a lot of puzzled looks, and some
    > would (legitimately) question your sanity, but nobody around here would
    > say that you can't do that. Ironically, the only one who would tell you
    > that you were wrong in that situation would be Microsoft; they do not
    > allow installation of Vista on a virtual machine.
    >



    I agree. The only time I touch Windows is to help
    my wife and daughter as I haven't got them to
    switch yet. There are a couple of closed source
    programs I use with wine as there is no Open
    source equivalents at this time. I also don't have
    a problem with closed source programs that are
    good either. What I have a problem with is closed
    source OS.
    caver1

  6. Re: Dell and DVD Playback

    On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 09:18:48 -0500, caver1 wrote:

    > MarkA wrote:
    >> On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 20:15:27 -0500, caver1 wrote:
    >>
    >>> MarkA wrote:
    >>>> On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:50:41 +1100, andrew wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Hi,
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Just read the following from Dell and the Ubuntu newsletter:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> http://tinyurl.com/yrgzc3
    >>>>>
    >>>>> and the quote that stuck in my mind was:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> ".... we now include built-in DVD movie playback with all Ubuntu
    >>>>> 7.10 systems.The experience we wanted is simple - when you put a
    >>>>> movie in, it plays. It is easy enough for a child and an example of
    >>>>> the steps we are taking to make Ubuntu as enjoyable as possible."
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Is that really the path that Ubuntu should walk: "easy enough for a
    >>>>> child"??? It is my opinion, and I realise that this is
    >>>>> controversial, that this would be a grave mistake.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Andrew
    >>>> It was my understanding that the reason Linux distros don't include
    >>>> DVD players by default is because the terms of the agreement
    >>>> necessary to obtain a license and decryption keys to *legally* play
    >>>> DVDs specify that the end-user must not be able to access the
    >>>> decrypted content. This is completely against the whole philosophy of
    >>>> "Free/Open Source Software", which basically says that the end-user
    >>>> can do anything he wants with his computer and its software.
    >>>>
    >>>> If Dell is supplying a DVD player that can handle commercially
    >>>> produced DVD movies, I would presume that it is a closed
    >>>> source/proprietary product added on the the Ubuntu distro.
    >>>>
    >>>> I have no objection to making Linux easy-to-use. What offends the
    >>>> Linux/FOSS community is the idea that users *must not* have access to
    >>>> the inner workings of their OS.
    >>>>
    >>>> Linux is like a car: some people just want it to get them from point
    >>>> A to point B, without worrying about the details. Other people like
    >>>> to tweak the timing, modify the cam shaft, enlarge the intake
    >>>> manifold, etc, etc. FOSS lets you tinker if you like. Closed
    >>>> software means that you are not allowed to open the hood.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> That's true. But at the same time we are free to add any software that
    >>> we want. Look at the ones that want to play closed source games
    >>> through Wine. Its their choice.
    >>> Or should all of us bow to the FOSS Nazis and ony use what they tell
    >>> us we can.
    >>> After all I don't know if I am smart enough to think for myself.
    >>> caver1

    >>
    >> The FOSS evangelists would probably recommend that you use a FOSS
    >> product in preference to a closed one whenever possible, but the bottom
    >> line is that it is all about freedom. If you want to set up your Linux
    >> box as a virtual machine to run Vista, you'll get a lot of puzzled
    >> looks, and some would (legitimately) question your sanity, but nobody
    >> around here would say that you can't do that. Ironically, the only one
    >> who would tell you that you were wrong in that situation would be
    >> Microsoft; they do not allow installation of Vista on a virtual
    >> machine.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > I agree. The only time I touch Windows is to help my wife and daughter
    > as I haven't got them to switch yet. There are a couple of closed source
    > programs I use with wine as there is no Open source equivalents at this
    > time. I also don't have a problem with closed source programs that are
    > good either. What I have a problem with is closed source OS.


    Me personally, I don't care if it's open source, closed source, green
    source, martian source, or whatever source one can imagine. Even if
    something is open source, I personally have better things to do than to
    mess around with it's code.

    Open source or not, the only thing I generally care about is if it fits
    my needs or not. Ultimately, that's what matters...to me anyway. =)

    --
    Stephan
    2003 Yamaha R6

    君の事思い出す日なんてないのは
    君の事忘れたときがないから

  7. Re: Dell and DVD Playback


    >>>

    >> I agree. The only time I touch Windows is to help my wife and daughter
    >> as I haven't got them to switch yet. There are a couple of closed source
    >> programs I use with wine as there is no Open source equivalents at this
    >> time. I also don't have a problem with closed source programs that are
    >> good either. What I have a problem with is closed source OS.

    >
    > Me personally, I don't care if it's open source, closed source, green
    > source, martian source, or whatever source one can imagine. Even if
    > something is open source, I personally have better things to do than to
    > mess around with it's code.
    >
    > Open source or not, the only thing I generally care about is if it fits
    > my needs or not. Ultimately, that's what matters...to me anyway. =)
    >




    True. I guess what I am trying to say is when It
    gets so closed that it stops you from doing what
    you should be able to do to satisfy someones
    greed. Thats where closed source is heading.
    caver1

  8. Re: Dell and DVD Playback

    On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 11:21:01 -0500, caver1 wrote:


    >>> I agree. The only time I touch Windows is to help my wife and daughter
    >>> as I haven't got them to switch yet. There are a couple of closed
    >>> source programs I use with wine as there is no Open source equivalents
    >>> at this time. I also don't have a problem with closed source programs
    >>> that are good either. What I have a problem with is closed source
    >>> OS.

    >>
    >> Me personally, I don't care if it's open source, closed source, green
    >> source, martian source, or whatever source one can imagine. Even if
    >> something is open source, I personally have better things to do than to
    >> mess around with it's code.
    >>
    >> Open source or not, the only thing I generally care about is if it fits
    >> my needs or not. Ultimately, that's what matters...to me anyway. =)
    >>

    >
    > True. I guess what I am trying to say is when It gets so closed that it
    > stops you from doing what you should be able to do to satisfy someones
    > greed. Thats where closed source is heading. caver1


    Well it most definitely seems to be the path Microsoft and Media
    companies are taking. But I wouldn't go as far as to say that's where
    closed source is heading.

    There are some things which open source is very appropriate for and
    closed source isn't. The same applies vice versa. One isn't necessarily
    better than the other and neither is the solution to everything.

    What matters is how each principle is used and applied.

    --
    Stephan
    2003 Yamaha R6

    君の事思い出す日なんてないのは
    君の事忘れたときがないから

  9. Re: Dell and DVD Playback

    Stephan Rose wrote:
    > On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 11:21:01 -0500, caver1 wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>> I agree. The only time I touch Windows is to help my wife and daughter
    >>>> as I haven't got them to switch yet. There are a couple of closed
    >>>> source programs I use with wine as there is no Open source equivalents
    >>>> at this time. I also don't have a problem with closed source programs
    >>>> that are good either. What I have a problem with is closed source
    >>>> OS.
    >>> Me personally, I don't care if it's open source, closed source, green
    >>> source, martian source, or whatever source one can imagine. Even if
    >>> something is open source, I personally have better things to do than to
    >>> mess around with it's code.
    >>>
    >>> Open source or not, the only thing I generally care about is if it fits
    >>> my needs or not. Ultimately, that's what matters...to me anyway. =)
    >>>

    >> True. I guess what I am trying to say is when It gets so closed that it
    >> stops you from doing what you should be able to do to satisfy someones
    >> greed. Thats where closed source is heading. caver1

    >
    > Well it most definitely seems to be the path Microsoft and Media
    > companies are taking. But I wouldn't go as far as to say that's where
    > closed source is heading.
    >
    > There are some things which open source is very appropriate for and
    > closed source isn't. The same applies vice versa. One isn't necessarily
    > better than the other and neither is the solution to everything.
    >
    > What matters is how each principle is used and applied.
    >




    Agreed. That is why you never see me putting MS
    products down. I always aim my disgust at MS's
    business practices. and they aren't the only one.
    caver1

  10. Re: Dell and DVD Playback

    andrew wrote:

    > But if we can move away from the idea of me snatching computers from
    > children has anyone had a look at LinDVD which is the software in
    > question? It is /very/ closed source and I believe instigates a few
    > region coding bars upon users.


    So do the drives themselves. Big deal.

    --
    TomB - DrumScum
    To alcohol, the cause of and solution to all of life's problems - Homer
    J. Simpson

  11. Re: Dell and DVD Playback

    On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 17:50:24 +0000, TomB wrote:

    > andrew wrote:
    >
    >> But if we can move away from the idea of me snatching computers from
    >> children has anyone had a look at LinDVD which is the software in
    >> question? It is /very/ closed source and I believe instigates a few
    >> region coding bars upon users.

    >
    > So do the drives themselves. Big deal.


    Yea but the hardware region locking can be worked around as libdvdcss
    proves. =)

    --
    Stephan
    2003 Yamaha R6

    君の事思い出す日なんてないのは
    君の事忘れたときがないから

  12. Re: Dell and DVD Playback

    caver1 writes:

    >>>>
    >>> I agree. The only time I touch Windows is to help my wife and daughter
    >>> as I haven't got them to switch yet. There are a couple of closed source
    >>> programs I use with wine as there is no Open source equivalents at this
    >>> time. I also don't have a problem with closed source programs that are
    >>> good either. What I have a problem with is closed source OS.

    >>
    >> Me personally, I don't care if it's open source, closed source,
    >> green source, martian source, or whatever source one can
    >> imagine. Even if something is open source, I personally have better
    >> things to do than to mess around with it's code.
    >>
    >> Open source or not, the only thing I generally care about is if it
    >> fits my needs or not. Ultimately, that's what matters...to me
    >> anyway. =)
    >>

    >
    >
    >
    > True. I guess what I am trying to say is when It gets so closed that
    > it stops you from doing what you should be able to do to satisfy
    > someones greed. Thats where closed source is heading.
    > caver1


    No it isn't. *Successful* closed source generally does what people want -
    it's why they buy it. And if it's not feature rich enough then
    competitors will spot that and fill that need. It's what drives the
    great SW packages. OSS can be wonderful, but nothing focuses the drive
    more than the potential of riches enough to keep ones family fed for
    years to come.

  13. Re: Dell and DVD Playback

    Stephan Rose wrote:

    > So that car principle is being upheld perfectly fine.
    >
    > Those who just want to get from A and B can use the Dell car.
    > Those who want to tweak can just go to www.ubuntu.com
    >
    > Easy enough...


    Actually both can just use the Dell car, since the hood isn't welded
    shut as with e.g. Vista cars or Apple cars.

    --
    TomB - DrumScum
    To alcohol, the cause of and solution to all of life's problems - Homer
    J. Simpson

  14. Re: Dell and DVD Playback

    Stephan Rose wrote:
    > On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 17:50:24 +0000, TomB wrote:
    >
    >> andrew wrote:
    >>
    >>> But if we can move away from the idea of me snatching computers from
    >>> children has anyone had a look at LinDVD which is the software in
    >>> question? It is /very/ closed source and I believe instigates a few
    >>> region coding bars upon users.

    >> So do the drives themselves. Big deal.

    >
    > Yea but the hardware region locking can be worked around as libdvdcss
    > proves. =)
    >


    Of course. hence the /big deal/ bit. What I meant to say is that the OP
    seems to accept the fact that restrictions are put into the hardware
    (and the hardware's software), but not when they are put into the software.

    --
    TomB - DrumScum
    To alcohol, the cause of and solution to all of life's problems - Homer
    J. Simpson

  15. Re: Dell and DVD Playback


    >>
    >>
    >> True. I guess what I am trying to say is when It gets so closed that
    >> it stops you from doing what you should be able to do to satisfy
    >> someones greed. Thats where closed source is heading.
    >> caver1

    >
    > No it isn't. *Successful* closed source generally does what people want -
    > it's why they buy it. And if it's not feature rich enough then
    > competitors will spot that and fill that need. It's what drives the
    > great SW packages. OSS can be wonderful, but nothing focuses the drive
    > more than the potential of riches enough to keep ones family fed for
    > years to come.



    You follow the whole thread Hadron?
    Closed source OS IS heading to where you have to
    keep paying to be able to less and less.
    This IS an example of where MS wants all closed
    source to go;
    http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...DN/20060282899
    This is not the first of this type of patent by MS.
    Don't even get me started on riches.
    You now have the richest economy the world has
    ever seen and because of the greed that is shown
    by MS and many others this economy can't even
    afford to keep up its own infrastructure, its
    schools, health care, etc. That's where greed gets
    you.
    caver1

  16. Re: Dell and DVD Playback

    caver1 writes:

    >>>
    >>>
    >>> True. I guess what I am trying to say is when It gets so closed that
    >>> it stops you from doing what you should be able to do to satisfy
    >>> someones greed. Thats where closed source is heading.
    >>> caver1

    >>
    >> No it isn't. *Successful* closed source generally does what people want -
    >> it's why they buy it. And if it's not feature rich enough then
    >> competitors will spot that and fill that need. It's what drives the
    >> great SW packages. OSS can be wonderful, but nothing focuses the drive
    >> more than the potential of riches enough to keep ones family fed for
    >> years to come.

    >
    >
    > You follow the whole thread Hadron?
    > Closed source OS IS heading to where you have to keep paying to be
    > able to less and less.


    Some maybe. All not. In other words I disagree.

    > This IS an example of where MS wants all closed source to go;
    > http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...DN/20060282899
    > This is not the first of this type of patent by MS.
    > Don't even get me started on riches.
    > You now have the richest economy the world has ever seen and because
    > of the greed that is shown by MS and many others this economy can't
    > even afford to keep up its own infrastructure, its schools, health
    > care, etc. That's where greed gets you.
    > caver1


    I really don't know what economy you are referring to.

    All I know is most closed source SW is generally very high quality. It
    has to be or people will not buy it. Also, being a realist, I dont blame
    these companies for not releasing their SW.

    A lot of Linux heads forget that real big businesses often DO get the
    source to the stuff they buy on a paid for licensing scheme. It is not
    given away "for free" to the unwashed masses for relatively obvious
    reasons.

  17. Re: Dell and DVD Playback

    On 2008-01-01, TomB wrote:
    > andrew wrote:
    >
    >> But if we can move away from the idea of me snatching computers from
    >> children has anyone had a look at LinDVD which is the software in
    >> question? It is /very/ closed source and I believe instigates a few
    >> region coding bars upon users.

    >
    > So do the drives themselves. Big deal.


    But this is a limitation that does not normally apply to Linux.

    Andrew

    --
    http://www.andrews-corner.org

  18. Re: Dell and DVD Playback

    Hadron wrote:
    > caver1 writes:
    >
    >>>>
    >>>> True. I guess what I am trying to say is when It gets so closed that
    >>>> it stops you from doing what you should be able to do to satisfy
    >>>> someones greed. Thats where closed source is heading.
    >>>> caver1
    >>> No it isn't. *Successful* closed source generally does what people want -
    >>> it's why they buy it. And if it's not feature rich enough then
    >>> competitors will spot that and fill that need. It's what drives the
    >>> great SW packages. OSS can be wonderful, but nothing focuses the drive
    >>> more than the potential of riches enough to keep ones family fed for
    >>> years to come.

    >>
    >> You follow the whole thread Hadron?
    >> Closed source OS IS heading to where you have to keep paying to be
    >> able to less and less.

    >
    > Some maybe. All not. In other words I disagree.
    >
    >> This IS an example of where MS wants all closed source to go;
    >> http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...DN/20060282899
    >> This is not the first of this type of patent by MS.
    >> Don't even get me started on riches.
    >> You now have the richest economy the world has ever seen and because
    >> of the greed that is shown by MS and many others this economy can't
    >> even afford to keep up its own infrastructure, its schools, health
    >> care, etc. That's where greed gets you.
    >> caver1

    >
    > I really don't know what economy you are referring to.
    >
    > All I know is most closed source SW is generally very high quality. It
    > has to be or people will not buy it. Also, being a realist, I dont blame
    > these companies for not releasing their SW.
    >
    > A lot of Linux heads forget that real big businesses often DO get the
    > source to the stuff they buy on a paid for licensing scheme. It is not
    > given away "for free" to the unwashed masses for relatively obvious
    > reasons.



    If you don't follow the thread then its wrong to
    say I'm wrong.
    I stated that I was not against the quality of
    closed source. I don't like the business practices
    of most closed source.
    caver1

  19. Re: Dell and DVD Playback

    caver1 writes:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >> caver1 writes:
    >>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> True. I guess what I am trying to say is when It gets so closed that
    >>>>> it stops you from doing what you should be able to do to satisfy
    >>>>> someones greed. Thats where closed source is heading.
    >>>>> caver1
    >>>> No it isn't. *Successful* closed source generally does what people want -
    >>>> it's why they buy it. And if it's not feature rich enough then
    >>>> competitors will spot that and fill that need. It's what drives the
    >>>> great SW packages. OSS can be wonderful, but nothing focuses the drive
    >>>> more than the potential of riches enough to keep ones family fed for
    >>>> years to come.
    >>>
    >>> You follow the whole thread Hadron?
    >>> Closed source OS IS heading to where you have to keep paying to be
    >>> able to less and less.

    >>
    >> Some maybe. All not. In other words I disagree.
    >>
    >>> This IS an example of where MS wants all closed source to go;
    >>> http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...DN/20060282899
    >>> This is not the first of this type of patent by MS.
    >>> Don't even get me started on riches.
    >>> You now have the richest economy the world has ever seen and because
    >>> of the greed that is shown by MS and many others this economy can't
    >>> even afford to keep up its own infrastructure, its schools, health
    >>> care, etc. That's where greed gets you.
    >>> caver1

    >>
    >> I really don't know what economy you are referring to.
    >>
    >> All I know is most closed source SW is generally very high quality. It
    >> has to be or people will not buy it. Also, being a realist, I dont blame
    >> these companies for not releasing their SW.
    >>
    >> A lot of Linux heads forget that real big businesses often DO get the
    >> source to the stuff they buy on a paid for licensing scheme. It is not
    >> given away "for free" to the unwashed masses for relatively obvious
    >> reasons.

    >
    >
    > If you don't follow the thread then its wrong to say I'm wrong.


    What bit of the thread have I missed which will clear the mist?

    > I stated that I was not against the quality of closed source. I don't
    > like the business practices of most closed source.


    And I don't know who you mean. What business practises and by whom in
    particular? "most" is a LOT of companies!

    Or do you, as I suspect, really mean a tiny minority of companies?


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