New to this Linux lark - advice please - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on New to this Linux lark - advice please - Ubuntu ; On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:53:11 +0000, Moog wrote: > Mark South illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing: >> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 06:06:22 +0000, Moog wrote: >> >>> Mark South illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing: >>> >>>> >>>> Now I'm wondering ...

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Thread: New to this Linux lark - advice please

  1. Re: New to this Linux lark - advice please

    On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:53:11 +0000, Moog wrote:

    > Mark South illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 06:06:22 +0000, Moog wrote:
    >>
    >>> Mark South illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >>>
    >>>> <...>
    >>>> Now I'm wondering how hard it would be to run a bot that simply replies
    >>>> with "Feck off, yer feckin' win-droid!" whenever it finds outlook express
    >>>> mentioned in the headers. It would sound like an Irish Dan C....
    >>>
    >>> Heh.
    >>>
    >>> Like a sort of more modern Father Jack?

    >>
    >> Actually, Father Jack is exactly how I visualise Dan C.

    >
    > Yup. I concur.
    >
    >> And Hadron would be played by Mrs Doyle.

    >
    > I was thinking more of a "Dougal". ;-)


    No. Dougal is stupid but well-meaning. Maybe Tom would be the choice -
    y'know, the psychopath?

  2. Re: New to this Linux lark - advice please

    Mark South illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    > On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:53:11 +0000, Moog wrote:
    >
    >> Mark South illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >>> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 06:06:22 +0000, Moog wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Mark South illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >>>>
    >>>>> <...>
    >>>>> Now I'm wondering how hard it would be to run a bot that simply replies
    >>>>> with "Feck off, yer feckin' win-droid!" whenever it finds outlook express
    >>>>> mentioned in the headers. It would sound like an Irish Dan C....
    >>>>
    >>>> Heh.
    >>>>
    >>>> Like a sort of more modern Father Jack?
    >>>
    >>> Actually, Father Jack is exactly how I visualise Dan C.

    >>
    >> Yup. I concur.
    >>
    >>> And Hadron would be played by Mrs Doyle.

    >>
    >> I was thinking more of a "Dougal". ;-)

    >
    > No. Dougal is stupid but well-meaning. Maybe Tom would be the choice -
    > y'know, the psychopath?


    LOL. I hear the sound of a nail being hit squarely on the head. ;-)

    --
    Moog

    "Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the
    leather straps."

  3. Re: New to this Linux lark - advice please

    On 2007-11-15, Eeyore hit the keyboard and wrote:
    >



    >
    > No, not lazy at all. Preoccupied with work so a whole DAY
    > passed before I fitted the extra memory ! Had there not
    > been so many abusive responses here, I dare say I'd have
    > got on with it faster.


    I said it elsewhere before and then I'll put this thread to
    rest: You Graham *dished* out in like manner, as you
    *received*. And the number of people that that *gave* it you
    I can count on *one* hand, so I think now you are
    exaggerating a bit here. Unfortunately I couldn't give you
    any advise about your problems....

    >
    > We'll see.
    >
    > Graham
    >



    Dragomir Kollaric
    --
    This signature is licensed under the GPL and may be
    freely distributed as long as a copy of the GPL is included... :-)

  4. Re: New to this Linux lark - advice please

    NoStop wrote:

    > Eeyore wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >> Everyone I know sticks with Windows aside from those I know who are IT
    >> people and have the confidence to try other stuff..
    >>
    >> Graham

    >
    > And my experience is exactly the opposite. Everyone that I've shown Linux
    > to and helped them get up and running have dumped Windoze and now run
    > Linux exclusively. These aren't IT people btw, but ordinary computer
    > users.
    >
    > Cheers.


    I'll entirely concur with that. Our local pub had a pile of Ubuntu disks
    and some booklets on the bar. They were all taken by customers in a day,
    and discussion in the "local" reveals that those who tried it mostly stayed
    with it.

    It's quite funny to fire up my laptop running 7.10 with all the visuals you
    could imagine next to a Windows Weeny "running" Vista. My boot time is
    under 17 secs from cold to log in - the Windows Wanker is still waiting
    after nearly two minutes. They are invariably startled by a proper 3D
    desktop and usually (in an average of about 5 minutes) their curiosity gets
    the better of them, and they ask what it is...

    C.


  5. Re: New to this Linux lark - advice please

    Eeyore wrote:

    > Troglodyte wrote:
    >
    >> Christopher Hunter wrote:
    >> >
    >> > If you hadn't arrived with a sarcastic, critical manner and an
    >> > obviously faulty attitude, you would have received immediate,
    >> > courteous help. You undoubtedly have a PEBKAC fault.
    >> >
    >> > C.

    >>
    >> Translation = toe the Ubuntu mantra or we will **** you over.

    >
    > Sounds like it.
    >
    > Funny that increasing the RAM to 384M fixed the problem.


    Not funny at all, in fact it was suggested to you right from the
    beginning and your arrogant, ignorant self dismissed good advice because
    you believed you knew better.

    Apparently you were mistaken on all counts.

    *snicker*

    > Maybe my 256M
    > stick hadn't been blessed by the Linux Gods ?


    More likely you have some sort of shadowing or what not enabled that's
    using a chunk of RAM, putting your total available below the threshold
    necessary to run the LIveCD environment on that machine.

  6. Re: New to this Linux lark - advice please

    On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 06:12:41 +0000, Eeyore wrote:

    > I've been curious about trying out Linux for ages and got a live CD a while back
    > - Ubuntu 7.04
    >
    > Unfortunately it wouldn't run on either of my PCs. I got error messages or a
    > system hang. Now in the case of my really old PC with a 600MHz P3, I'm not so
    > bothered but the other one is a moderately adequately specced PC with an Abit
    > KT7A mobo and Athlon 1900XP CPU. It had 256M of RAM at the time but I could add
    > another 128 or 256 M if that's needed ( I have the RAM kicking around).
    >
    > I fared slightly better with a copy of Xubuntu I downloaded but even that threw
    > up an 'unexpected process termination' message on the desktop after I left it to
    > get on with instaling or somesuch. I also got Kubuntu sort of running albeit at
    > the speed of cold treacle, however all the program names beginning with a 'K' is
    > a right turn off !
    >
    > Now aside from the unfortunate fact that Windows 98SE or XP installs a breeze on
    > either of these PCs and I wonder why Linux is so fussy, do you have any advice
    > as to any distro to try next ?
    >
    > Graham


    BigG:

    All those v_7.x are low_beta products pushed-out for trouble-shooting to
    byteboyz types in preparation for Healthy_Heron_LTS. Ignore them.

    Get a factory-CD copy of DAPPERx32. It will install without issue. Then
    next April you swap_in HH_LTS and live a long, peaceful life.

    nss
    *****


  7. Re: New to this Linux lark - advice please



    Dragomir Kollaric wrote:

    > On 2007-11-15, Eeyore hit the keyboard and wrote:
    > >
    > >> You have succeeded in generating one of the longer
    > >> threads I have seen recently.
    > >> Sorry when you answered about your vid card I
    > >> misunderstood and for some reason I thought it was
    > >> someone else's comeback.

    >
    > > Not a problem. Thanks for your advice. Unlike many of the
    > > lusers here, you have been most helpful.

    >
    > I have read almost every reply to you in this thread (except for Dan.C
    > as he is one of the rare individuals in my kill-file), and I can say
    > that about 4 or 5 people engaged in name-calling and the war. So you
    > call that *many*.


    It was enough to make an impression for sure. No offence intended..

    I have the lusers killfiled now.

    Graham


  8. Re: New to this Linux lark - advice please



    Mark South wrote:

    > BTW, please set your line wrap down a bit.


    Sorry about that. It appears to be a bug in Netscape.

    Graham



  9. Re: New to this Linux lark - advice please



    Mark South wrote:

    > On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 16:19:34 +0000, Eeyore wrote:
    >
    > >> Maybe because many of us have installed 7.04 on boxes with only 256MB or RAM
    > >> without a problem?

    > >
    > > Which has to beg the question why would the RAM requirement be so dependent on
    > > the hardware ? I 'm finding it difficult to think of any convincing reasons.

    >
    > Because it depends crucially on stuff like the performance of the MMU and
    > its interactions on the bus. Each computer really is different. The
    > differences don't show up so much until the envelope is reached, and
    > different systems have slightly different envelopes. You got unlucky is
    > all.


    Understood broadly but not clear in my mind why or rather how the memory management
    affects it so much.

    This would be related to the chipset surely ? The KT7A uses Via's KT133(A) chipset
    and this has been widely used by many manufacturers. Surely all KT133 based mobos
    would be affected in the same way ?

    Graham



  10. Re: New to this Linux lark - advice please



    Mark South wrote:

    > Eeyore wrote:
    >
    > >> And my experience is exactly the opposite. Everyone that I've shown Linux to
    > >> and helped them get up and running have dumped Windoze and now run Linux
    > >> exclusively. These aren't IT people btw, but ordinary computer users.

    > >
    > > Maybe I can use my next door neighbour as a guineas pig ? He's highly computer
    > > illiterate (he's a musician - violinist) but manages after a fashion with XP. He
    > > must be fed up with me swearing at microsoft whenever I use his PC (which is
    > > usually when I'm helping him out).

    >
    > Show him Rosegarden and Lilypond and tell him how much they cost?


    Well he won't have any use for Rosegarden as he's a violinist and he plays mainly
    traditional 'classical' stuff but Lilypond might interest him. Thanks for the tip.

    Graham



  11. Re: New to this Linux lark - advice please



    Moog wrote:

    > Eeyore illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    > > Moog wrote:
    > >> Eeyore illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    > >> > Moog wrote:
    > >> >> Eeyore illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > What I have I listed right at the beginning. Of the non-generic parts ....
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > Abit KT7A mobo
    > >> >> > Nvidia MX440 graphics card with 64M
    > >> >> > 256 MB of PC133 SDRAM which I can increase to 384 or 512 MB
    > >> >> > I'd add a Zonet ZEN3200N ? network card if it runs OK
    > >> >>
    > >> >> If you want a live CD to run on thnat system, you'll have a long wait.
    > >> >
    > >> > Why specifically do you say that ? Actually ithangs after about 5 mins.
    > >>
    > >> The RAM, for a start.

    > >
    > > Well ..... as I understood it - and it was confirmed to me here - that 256M of RAM
    > > was meant to be adequate to run a Live CD of Ubuntu 7.04.
    > >
    > > Subsequently it appears otherwise.

    >
    > Actually, 192mb for 7.04. However, when a LiveCD doesn't boot, the
    > bulprit is mostly lack of ram. Call it an educated guess. Call it
    > experience. Or just keep dismissing both of those if you wish.


    So in what way is my 256M of RAM inadequate. It's NOT faulty. There is NO graphics card
    grabbing any of it etc etc.


    > >> Also the age of the machine.

    > >
    > > I'm sorry but the AGE of the machine is irrelevant unless the Linux distro in
    > > question intends to DROP support for some of the most popular, well performing and
    > > reliable chipsets in existence.

    >
    > No. The age of the machine is quite relevant. Ol,der machines may well
    > have dust particles,


    DUST is largely irrelevant except where it might impede cooling. In any case this PC is
    entirely clear of dust.


    > failing drives,


    I wasn't installing to a hard drive. A failing CD-ROM drive could be a problem but since
    adding extra memory fixed the issue clearly it's not that.


    > low spec memory in comparsion to
    > newer machines.


    Define 'low spec'. In any case the KT7A is / was a high spec mobo.


    > Experience should tell you that too.


    Experience tells me you're not making a lot of sense wrt the kit I have.

    Graham


  12. Re: New to this Linux lark - advice please



    noshellswill wrote:

    > On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 06:12:41 +0000, Eeyore wrote:
    >
    > > I've been curious about trying out Linux for ages and got a live CD a while back
    > > - Ubuntu 7.04
    > >
    > > Unfortunately it wouldn't run on either of my PCs. I got error messages or a
    > > system hang. Now in the case of my really old PC with a 600MHz P3, I'm not so
    > > bothered but the other one is a moderately adequately specced PC with an Abit
    > > KT7A mobo and Athlon 1900XP CPU. It had 256M of RAM at the time but I could add
    > > another 128 or 256 M if that's needed ( I have the RAM kicking around).
    > >
    > > I fared slightly better with a copy of Xubuntu I downloaded but even that threw
    > > up an 'unexpected process termination' message on the desktop after I left it to
    > > get on with instaling or somesuch. I also got Kubuntu sort of running albeit at
    > > the speed of cold treacle, however all the program names beginning with a 'K' is
    > > a right turn off !
    > >
    > > Now aside from the unfortunate fact that Windows 98SE or XP installs a breeze on
    > > either of these PCs and I wonder why Linux is so fussy, do you have any advice
    > > as to any distro to try next ?
    > >
    > > Graham

    >
    > BigG:
    >
    > All those v_7.x are low_beta products pushed-out for trouble-shooting to
    > byteboyz types in preparation for Healthy_Heron_LTS. Ignore them.
    >
    > Get a factory-CD copy of DAPPERx32. It will install without issue. Then
    > next April you swap_in HH_LTS and live a long, peaceful life.


    That's VERY interesting. Probably the best advice yet.

    Thanks.

    Graham


  13. Re: New to this Linux lark - advice please

    Eeyore wrote:

    > In any case the KT7A is / was a high spec mobo.


    I bought one the other day for £10, complete with 512 Mb RAM. It's /still/
    a piece of ancient junk, but runs Xubuntu pretty well.

    C.


  14. Re: New to this Linux lark - advice please

    steveski wrote:
    > Mark South wrote:
    >
    >
    >>On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 08:22:40 -0500, caver1 wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>I have installed on 40 gigs no problem. As I
    >>>said earlier with 500 gig needed separate boot
    >>>partition. Not sure where the limit is when you
    >>>start to need this.

    >>
    >>Depends on where the BIOS has problems passing control to the drive. In
    >>the past it's been at various sizes, but the one that bites most often
    >>these days is the 127GB limit, so as long as the boot partition is inside
    >>that it's mostly OK.

    >
    >
    > Is this to do with 48-bit LBA?


    More likely with 28-bit LBA:

    2^28 == 268,435,456 (256 million blocks)
    268435456*512 == 127GB

    With a 48-bit LBA you can address up to
    144,115,188,075,855,872 Bytes which is 128 Petabyte.

    --
    These are my personal views and not those of Fujitsu Siemens Computers!
    Josef Möllers (Pinguinpfleger bei FSC)
    If failure had no penalty success would not be a prize (T. Pratchett)
    Company Details: http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/imprint.html


  15. Re: New to this Linux lark - advice please

    On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 00:28:41 +0000, Eeyore wrote:

    > Mark South wrote:
    >
    >> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 16:19:34 +0000, Eeyore wrote:
    >>
    >> >> Maybe because many of us have installed 7.04 on boxes with only 256MB or RAM
    >> >> without a problem?
    >> >
    >> > Which has to beg the question why would the RAM requirement be so dependent on
    >> > the hardware ? I 'm finding it difficult to think of any convincing reasons.

    >>
    >> Because it depends crucially on stuff like the performance of the MMU and
    >> its interactions on the bus. Each computer really is different. The
    >> differences don't show up so much until the envelope is reached, and
    >> different systems have slightly different envelopes. You got unlucky is
    >> all.

    >
    > Understood broadly but not clear in my mind why or rather how the memory management
    > affects it so much.
    >
    > This would be related to the chipset surely ? The KT7A uses Via's KT133(A) chipset
    > and this has been widely used by many manufacturers. Surely all KT133 based mobos
    > would be affected in the same way ?


    The exact performance one gets depends on the exact manner in which the
    components interact. Even a chipset that is nominally the same may have a
    component traded between versions, or firmware changes. The memory
    chips may have a slightly different rise profile and sometimes miss a
    clock tick, the exact layout of the chips on the motherboard affects the
    path timings. Etc, etc.

    This is why genuinely high performance machines are *really* expensive.

    Most PCs are faster than they need to be, and are nowhere near as fast as
    they would be if they were carefully designed. The substitute for careful
    design is simply to make sure that all the components are far more
    powerful than they need to be.

    Another way to put it is to compare with culinary combinations, what
    happens when you make raspberry fool with frozen raspberries or fresh ones
    of the same type? Different result, yes?

    Mark
    --
    Signature absent because it missed this morning's alarm clock cycle.

  16. Re: New to this Linux lark - advice please

    On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 00:35:18 +0000, Eeyore wrote:

    > Mark South wrote:
    >
    >> Eeyore wrote:
    >>
    >> >> And my experience is exactly the opposite. Everyone that I've shown Linux to
    >> >> and helped them get up and running have dumped Windoze and now run Linux
    >> >> exclusively. These aren't IT people btw, but ordinary computer users.
    >> >
    >> > Maybe I can use my next door neighbour as a guineas pig ? He's highly computer
    >> > illiterate (he's a musician - violinist) but manages after a fashion with XP. He
    >> > must be fed up with me swearing at microsoft whenever I use his PC (which is
    >> > usually when I'm helping him out).

    >>
    >> Show him Rosegarden and Lilypond and tell him how much they cost?

    >
    > Well he won't have any use for Rosegarden as he's a violinist and he plays mainly
    > traditional 'classical' stuff but Lilypond might interest him. Thanks for the tip.


    Rosegarden can be switched into a mode where it allows one to write music
    in traditional notation, "alla Mozart". This can then be exported to
    Lilypond for printing, or played through the sound system (providing jackd
    is running and there is a midi profile for it to use).

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