lmsensors - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on lmsensors - Ubuntu ; I have lmsensors installed and enabled in the services list although the Ubuntu applet for hardware sensors shows up 'no sensors found!' - any ideas? Also - can mrtg log hardware information as well as modem information?...

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Thread: lmsensors

  1. lmsensors

    I have lmsensors installed and enabled in the services list although the
    Ubuntu applet for hardware sensors shows up 'no sensors found!' - any
    ideas?

    Also - can mrtg log hardware information as well as modem information?

  2. Re: lmsensors

    Demosthenes wrote:

    > I have lmsensors installed and enabled in the services list although the
    > Ubuntu applet for hardware sensors shows up 'no sensors found!' - any
    > ideas?
    >



    This help ?

    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2780


  3. Re: lmsensors

    On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 00:47:03 +1300, Thor wrote:

    > This help ?
    >
    > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2780


    sure did, thanks!

    only think is that the CPU temp is now reported at less than 50 degrees.
    Under XP the Intel Desktop utilities application for the Pentium D 3.4GHz
    processor would report much higher than this, so either the CPU is now
    cooler or either application is wrong. Since I installed Ubuntu though
    this computer has only once rebooted in to XP and that was before I got
    full screen video-on-tv working so I'm not going back in to XP to check.

    Are there any good applications to graph / monitor / alert values? mrtg
    seems like a good bet.

  4. Re: lmsensors

    On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 11:58:12 +0000, someone purporting to be Demosthenes
    scrawled firmly:

    > On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 00:47:03 +1300, Thor wrote:
    >
    >> This help ?
    >>
    >> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2780

    >
    > sure did, thanks!
    >
    >
    > Are there any good applications to graph / monitor / alert values? mrtg
    > seems like a good bet.


    gkrellm might be a good start.

  5. Re: lmsensors

    Demosthenes wrote:

    > On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 00:47:03 +1300, Thor wrote:
    >
    >> This help ?
    >>
    >> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2780

    >
    > sure did, thanks!
    >
    > only think is that the CPU temp is now reported at less than 50 degrees.
    > Under XP the Intel Desktop utilities application for the Pentium D 3.4GHz
    > processor would report much higher than this, so either the CPU is now
    > cooler or either application is wrong. Since I installed Ubuntu though
    > this computer has only once rebooted in to XP and that was before I got
    > full screen video-on-tv working so I'm not going back in to XP to check.
    >
    > Are there any good applications to graph / monitor / alert values? mrtg
    > seems like a good bet.


    There is ksensors, since you are using knode I presume you are a kde
    user. gkrellm is good too, though ksensors will dock so it has some
    advantages.


    *~~~~~~~~~Thor

  6. Re: lmsensors

    On 09 Nov 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in article
    <017f61b7$0$4549$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, Demosthenes wrote:

    >only think is that the CPU temp is now reported at less than 50 degrees.
    >Under XP the Intel Desktop utilities application for the Pentium D 3.4GHz
    >processor would report much higher than this, so either the CPU is now
    >cooler or either application is wrong.


    'lmsensors' is reading the voltage drop across a diode embedded in the
    processor, and the sensor chip that reads the voltage drop and converts
    it to a digital value is unchanged. There might be an offset error,
    but it's usually not very large. Note that the reported temperature
    is a crude estimate, and may not reflect the actual temperature in
    the CPU (see the Intel data sheet for your CPU, in the section "Thermal
    Diode" for details). There is also an 'lm_sensors-FAQ' on-line, but it
    doesn't seem to be very recent (v2.18 dated 2005-12-17).

    That said, I've no idea where you are located, but the temperature of
    the CPU is a function of how warm it is in the room, as well as the
    amount of cool air reaching the heatsink of the CPU, how well that
    heatsink is attached, and how hard you are flogging the system. You
    may notice a line in the boot messages where it says

    Aug 26 14:39:01 atlantis kernel: Checking 'hlt' instruction... Ok.

    The 'hlt' instruction is a CPU command that virtually stops the CPU
    (hlt == halt) until the next interrupt which (depending on how your
    kernel was compiled) occurs 100, 250, 500, or 1000 times a second.
    When the CPU is halted, it consumes VERY little power, which means
    very little heat is generated. This also prolongs battery life in
    battery powered systems like laptops. Windoze doesn't bother with
    this concept, and when the CPU has nothing to do, windoze runs a "busy
    loop" (which is to say, the CPU runs around in tiny circles, wasting
    energy). Next, look at the 'top' command in Linux, and look at the
    top three lines

    6:40pm up 75 days, 4:01, 20 users, load average: 0.33, 0.28, 0.31
    79 processes: 57 sleeping, 22 running, 0 zombie, 0 stopped
    CPU states: 5.1% user, 3.0% system, 0.0% nice, 92.0% idle

    Here, in spite of having 20 users running a number of processes, the
    CPU is idling over 90 percent of the time.

    >Are there any good applications to graph / monitor / alert values?
    >mrtg seems like a good bet.


    I simply don't bother. I do bring the systems down on a regular basis
    for visual inspection and remove any dust-bunnies that may try to take
    up residence. If the system goes out of limits, I get mail. Good enough.

    Old guy


  7. Re: lmsensors

    thanks "Old guy'!

    This may explain it! Windoze ran *hot*, my computer actually caught fire
    once thanks to a dodgy job from the local computer store, but even after
    I fixed their dodgy job (BTW anyone in Canberra - NEVER GO TO ACC
    COMPUTERS IN DICKSON) it still ran hot.

    I thought Windoze ran a 'idle' instruction that stopped the CPU? The CPU
    did get hotter when it was running.

    But under Linux it is now running at 50 degrees which is a big
    improvement even though the little Gnome applet has a 'red' thermometer
    icon for the CPU, whatever that means, while the motherboard ones are
    yellow at 40 degrees.

    So my power bills could go down every so slightly? Nice.

    I never thought running Linux would run my system cooler and prolong it's
    life.

    So how do I get hard drive information? SMART health, usage,
    temperature, whatever, and how do I ensure that the hard drives are
    running with optimum settings? The hdparm application or something.


  8. Re: lmsensors

    On 10 Nov 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in article
    <01803092$0$4549$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, Demosthenes wrote:

    >thanks "Old guy'!


    You're welcome!

    >This may explain it! Windoze ran *hot*, my computer actually caught fire
    >once thanks to a dodgy job from the local computer store, but even after
    >I fixed their dodgy job (BTW anyone in Canberra - NEVER GO TO ACC
    >COMPUTERS IN DICKSON) it still ran hot.


    You've got enough elevation that you shouldn't be getting _that_ hot.
    (I'm about 600 KM East of Los Angeles, and the summer highs can reach
    +45C with ease, and occasionally +50C. The air conditioners running
    hard keep the house below +30C - setpoint is +28, as below that, the
    electric bills get brutal.)

    >I thought Windoze ran a 'idle' instruction that stopped the CPU? The CPU
    >did get hotter when it was running.


    There is no 'idle' instruction in x86 - all you can do is use the 'hlt'.
    There is a slight price (depends on the CPU 2 to 10 extra clock cycles)
    but it's hardly consequential.

    >But under Linux it is now running at 50 degrees which is a big
    >improvement even though the little Gnome applet has a 'red' thermometer
    >icon for the CPU, whatever that means, while the motherboard ones are
    >yellow at 40 degrees.


    The voltage drop across that Thermal diode is a function of the temps
    measured in Kelvin - starting from -273C, so even a 3C error is one
    percent. The commodity hardware usually isn't that tightly controlled.
    On top of that, Intel warns that there is a thermal lag in the readings
    (seconds) because silicon isn't the worlds greatest thermal conductor.
    It's also not located at whatever the hottest spot on the die, so you
    should treat it as an estimate. It's more accurate (typically) than
    the thermistors used on the motherboards, but that's not saying much.

    >So my power bills could go down every so slightly? Nice.


    Another hidden benefit.

    >So how do I get hard drive information? SMART health, usage,
    >temperature, whatever, and how do I ensure that the hard drives are
    >running with optimum settings? The hdparm application or something.


    I'm not that sure (I don't use them). If your news server carries
    the newsgroup 'alt.os.linux.mandrake' (not mandriva), there has been
    an on-going thread over the past two months or so... "Temperature
    Sensors (was: [OT] Batteries)" - branched there on 6 October, which
    puts it roughly 265 articles back from "today". The general decision
    was that the temperature readings of the disk were pretty inaccurate.
    Best solution is to see that the drives have adequate cooling air
    (especially is they are 10K or 15K rpm types). I've got extra fans
    blowing in (exhaust over the drives) through filters made for the
    air-conditioner/heater, because of pets. I try to clean them twice
    a year. But the temperatures _measured_ with a semi-calibrated
    thermometer show I'm keeping the hot spots inside less than 6C above
    the ambient. So it's a bit noisy.... ;-)

    Old guy

  9. Re: lmsensors

    On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 22:15:02 -0600, Moe Trin wrote:


    > You've got enough elevation that you shouldn't be getting _that_ hot.
    > (I'm about 600 KM East of Los Angeles, and the summer highs can reach
    > +45C with ease, and occasionally +50C. The air conditioners running hard
    > keep the house below +30C - setpoint is +28, as below that, the electric
    > bills get brutal.)


    Elevation, you mean Canberra being 650m in altitude? still gets damn hot
    here, but cold in winter, not sure what you mean. Sitting at 50 degrees
    now, apparently Pentium D's ran hot as a model? I think I will upgrade
    to a better model CPU within 6 months.

    > There is no 'idle' instruction in x86 - all you can do is use the 'hlt'.
    > There is a slight price (depends on the CPU 2 to 10 extra clock cycles)
    > but it's hardly consequential.


    slight price, how so? wouldn't the windoze 'idle' process use hlt?

    > The voltage drop across that Thermal diode is a function of the temps
    > measured in Kelvin - starting from -273C, so even a 3C error is one
    > percent. The commodity hardware usually isn't that tightly controlled.
    > On top of that, Intel warns that there is a thermal lag in the readings
    > (seconds) because silicon isn't the worlds greatest thermal conductor.
    > It's also not located at whatever the hottest spot on the die, so you
    > should treat it as an estimate. It's more accurate (typically) than the
    > thermistors used on the motherboards, but that's not saying much.


    Hmmm, interesting. Well the motherboard temperature readings show 42 and
    40 degrees, whatever they are measuring.

    > I'm not that sure (I don't use them). If your news server carries the
    > newsgroup


    I use Astreweb news server, it carries *everything* , but even the
    Internode one is pretty good for non binaries.

    > The general decision was that
    > the temperature readings of the disk were pretty inaccurate. Best
    > solution is to see that the drives have adequate cooling air (especially
    > is they are 10K or 15K rpm types). I've got extra fans blowing in
    > (exhaust over the drives) through filters made for the
    > air-conditioner/heater, because of pets. I try to clean them twice a
    > year. But the temperatures _measured_ with a semi-calibrated thermometer
    > show I'm keeping the hot spots inside less than 6C above the ambient.
    > So it's a bit noisy.... ;-)


    Wow you really went to town on this. I'll definitely be building a
    custom system next time and do it *properly*. ACC Computers in Dickson
    (Canberra) and Optima Computers in Australia have to be the most useless
    system builders I have ever encountered. If you want a job done
    properly, do it yourself!

    Any ideas on reading SMART data on hard drives? You always hear about
    SMART being for proactive monitoring and alerting of impending failure
    but I have never seen it in operation. Just a few green lights on some
    basic monitoring applications.

    And is there any way to graph temperatures and hardware readings? And
    provide alerts?



  10. Re: lmsensors

    Demosthenes illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:

    > <...>
    > And is there any way to graph temperatures and hardware readings? And
    > provide alerts?


    Could this be what you're after?
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=176249

    --
    Moog

    "Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the
    leather straps."

  11. Re: lmsensors

    On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 05:46:18 +0000, Moog wrote:

    > Could this be what you're after?
    > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=176249


    right on! Now just how to graph it and provide alerting. It's showing
    up one Western Digital drive as 60 degrees... not sure why.

    Good work though!

    Hey does logrotate by default compress and archive logs for everything
    under /var or whatever? I'm playing around with a lot of logging and
    know it can get out of control.

  12. Re: lmsensors

    Demosthenes illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    > On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 05:46:18 +0000, Moog wrote:
    >
    >> Could this be what you're after?
    >> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=176249

    >
    > right on! Now just how to graph it and provide alerting. It's showing
    > up one Western Digital drive as 60 degrees... not sure why.
    >
    > Good work though!


    Cool.

    > Hey does logrotate by default compress and archive logs for everything
    > under /var or whatever? I'm playing around with a lot of logging and
    > know it can get out of control.


    I've no idea fella. I don't use it.

    --
    Moog

    "Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the
    leather straps."

  13. Re: lmsensors

    On 10 Nov 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in article
    <0180496b$0$4549$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, Demosthenes wrote:

    >Moe Trin wrote:


    >> You've got enough elevation that you shouldn't be getting _that_ hot.
    >> (I'm about 600 KM East of Los Angeles, and the summer highs can reach
    >> +45C with ease, and occasionally +50C.


    I'm at 550 meters - "downtown" (about 20 miles away) is at 330 meters,
    and 10 miles Northeast, there is terrain to 1650 meters. Physics says
    that the temperature decreases ON AVERAGE about 2C per thousand feet/330
    meters of height. It actually varies quite a bit more than that, as
    where I live is _usually_ 4-6C cooler than downtown - verses the 1.3C
    theoretical average.

    >Elevation, you mean Canberra being 650m in altitude? still gets damn hot
    >here, but cold in winter, not sure what you mean.


    I suspect "hot" and "cold" are relative ;-)

    >Sitting at 50 degrees now, apparently Pentium D's ran hot as a model?


    -rw-rw-r-- 1 gferg ldp 114410 Nov 5 15:07 Unix-Hardware-Buyer-HOWTO

    Hot off the press - and rather extensive.

    >I think I will upgrade to a better model CPU within 6 months.


    I would be concerned about temperatures if you can't comfortably touch
    the hard drive[s] and heat sink in the computer.

    >> There is no 'idle' instruction in x86 - all you can do is use the 'hlt'.
    >> There is a slight price (depends on the CPU 2 to 10 extra clock cycles)
    >> but it's hardly consequential.

    >
    >slight price, how so?


    Let's say an average of 5 CPU cycles wasted per timer interrupt cycle
    and 1000 interrupts per second (exaggeration), that's 5000 extra cycles
    out of (what did you say... 3.4 GHz) 3400000000. Like I said - slight
    price.

    >wouldn't the windoze 'idle' process use hlt?


    I haven't seen the 'current' windoze source code, but the last I'd heard
    (w2k) it still hadn't discovered the hlt. This doesn't surprise me, as
    Bill and microsoft have never been noted as "tight" coders.

    >Hmmm, interesting. Well the motherboard temperature readings show 42
    >and 40 degrees, whatever they are measuring.


    That's usually a thermistor located somewhere on the motherboard. One is
    often close to the CPU, and the other... who knows.

    >Any ideas on reading SMART data on hard drives? You always hear about
    >SMART being for proactive monitoring and alerting of impending failure
    >but I have never seen it in operation. Just a few green lights on some
    >basic monitoring applications.


    There is some documentation for it - but a personal feeling is that it
    tends to be late. Other problem is that more than half of the systems
    in this house are headless (no displays), and although things run 24
    hours a day, there isn't someone setting there watching - heck, the
    displays are only turned on a few hours a day.

    Old guy

  14. Re: lmsensors

    On 10 Nov 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in article
    <018065d5$0$4549$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, Demosthenes wrote:

    >It's showing up one Western Digital drive as 60 degrees... not sure why.


    You better hope that is lying - that's 10C beyond the usual maximum
    allowed operating temperature.

    Remove the screws holding the cover on the _computer_ so that you
    can gain quick access. Watch the temp of the hard drive, and when
    it is stable for 5+ minutes, quickly pop the case off the computer
    and try to touch the disk. Is it to hot to touch? Is it merely
    painful? Is it just uncomfortable? If you can't hold your fingers
    to the case of the drive for at least ten seconds without pain, it
    is to freakin' hot and you've got to do _something_ to fix that
    problem RIGHT NOW.

    >Hey does logrotate by default compress and archive logs for everything
    >under /var or whatever?


    How is it configured? Try /etc/logrotate.conf for the defaults, and
    /etc/logrotate.d/* for the individual logs. The man page is pretty
    good. BY DEFAULT, it only rotates what it's specifically told to
    move. Compression is a configuration item in logrotate.conf.

    >I'm playing around with a lot of logging and know it can get out of
    >control.


    Yeah - I still have to giggle about a system at work that went tits up
    because the logs got full reporting that the file system was full.

    Old guy

  15. Re: lmsensors

    On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 15:04:59 -0600, Moe Trin wrote:

    > Remove the screws holding the cover on the _computer_ so that you can
    > gain quick access. Watch the temp of the hard drive, and when it is
    > stable for 5+ minutes, quickly pop the case off the computer and try to
    > touch the disk. Is it to hot to touch? Is it merely painful? Is it
    > just uncomfortable? If you can't hold your fingers to the case of the
    > drive for at least ten seconds without pain, it is to freakin' hot and
    > you've got to do _something_ to fix that problem RIGHT NOW.


    I hope it is lying, I remember doing a search online for this drive model
    and I recall some discussion about it reporting hot temperatures.

    This is what I get for that drive

    /dev/sdb: WDC WD2500JS-00MHB0: 56°C

    for all drives after I set the hddtemp application to run as 'deamon'
    with the '-d' flag I get

    |/dev/sda|ST3500630AS|36|C||/dev/sdb|WDC WD2500JS-00MHB0|56|C||/dev/sdc|
    ST3200827AS|34|C||/dev/sdd|WDC WD2000JB-00KFA0|31|C|

    so you can see the 56 degree value in there which is higher than the
    others.

    Is there any way I can obtain hard drive health information? Either from
    SMART or otherwise?

    If leave this running as deamon can I monitor on an ongoing basis
    somehow? Will this fill up any logs? At the moment I am sitting at 50M
    which has grown a little from yesterday.. I now have some monitoring
    applications like mrtg and munin running..

    12K /var/log/mrtg
    16K /var/log/ntpstats
    48K /var/log/exim4
    8.0K /var/log/dbconfig-common
    348K /var/log/mysql
    80K /var/log/cups
    36K /var/log/mythtv
    4.0K /var/log/news
    12K /var/log/fsck
    80K /var/log/apt
    12K /var/log/cacti
    1.7M /var/log/installer
    28K /var/log/apache2
    4.0K /var/log/apparmor
    8.0K /var/log/router
    4.0K /var/log/bittorrent
    4.0K /var/log/samba/cores/nmbd
    4.0K /var/log/samba/cores/smbd
    12K /var/log/samba/cores
    56K /var/log/samba
    27M /var/log/dist-upgrade
    884K /var/log/mserv
    2.4M /var/log/spong
    4.0K /var/log/unattended-upgrades
    52K /var/log/gdm
    220K /var/log/munin
    50M /var/log/

  16. Re: lmsensors

    more drive info

    any idea what the 'security' features could be?

    /dev/sdb:
    Timing cached reads: 1870 MB in 2.00 seconds = 934.90 MB/sec

    /dev/sdb:
    Timing buffered disk reads: 186 MB in 3.00 seconds = 61.91 MB/sec

    /dev/sdb:

    ATA device, with non-removable media
    Model Number: WDC WD2500JS-00MHB0
    Serial Number: WD-WCANK2063514
    Firmware Revision: 02.01C03
    Standards:
    Supported: 7 6 5 4
    Likely used: 7
    Configuration:
    Logical max current
    cylinders 16383 16383
    heads 16 16
    sectors/track 63 63
    --
    CHS current addressable sectors: 16514064
    LBA user addressable sectors: 268435455
    LBA48 user addressable sectors: 488397168
    device size with M = 1024*1024: 238475 MBytes
    device size with M = 1000*1000: 250059 MBytes (250 GB)
    Capabilities:
    LBA, IORDY(can be disabled)
    Standby timer values: spec'd by Standard, with device specific
    minimum
    R/W multiple sector transfer: Max = 16 Current = 16
    Recommended acoustic management value: 128, current value: 254
    DMA: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5 *udma6
    Cycle time: min=120ns recommended=120ns
    PIO: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
    Cycle time: no flow control=120ns IORDY flow control=120ns
    Commands/features:
    Enabled Supported:
    * SMART feature set
    Security Mode feature set
    * Power Management feature set
    * Write cache
    * Look-ahead
    * Host Protected Area feature set
    * WRITE_BUFFER command
    * READ_BUFFER command
    * NOP cmd
    * DOWNLOAD_MICROCODE
    SET_MAX security extension
    Automatic Acoustic Management feature set
    * 48-bit Address feature set
    * Device Configuration Overlay feature set
    * Mandatory FLUSH_CACHE
    * FLUSH_CACHE_EXT
    * SMART error logging
    * SMART self-test
    * General Purpose Logging feature set
    * SATA-I signaling speed (1.5Gb/s)
    * SATA-II signaling speed (3.0Gb/s)
    * Host-initiated interface power management
    * Phy event counters
    * Software settings preservation
    * SMART Command Transport (SCT) feature set
    * SCT Long Sector Access (AC1)
    * SCT LBA Segment Access (AC2)
    * SCT Error Recovery Control (AC3)
    * SCT Features Control (AC4)
    * SCT Data Tables (AC5)
    unknown 206[12]
    Security:
    Master password revision code = 65534
    supported
    not enabled
    not locked
    frozen
    not expired: security count
    not supported: enhanced erase
    Checksum: correct

  17. Re: lmsensors

    On 10 Nov 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in article
    <473645e8$0$31659$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, Demosthenes wrote:

    >Moe Trin wrote:


    >> Remove the screws holding the cover on the _computer_ so that you can
    >> gain quick access. Watch the temp of the hard drive, and when it is
    >> stable for 5+ minutes, quickly pop the case off the computer and try to
    >> touch the disk. Is it to hot to touch? Is it merely painful? Is it
    >> just uncomfortable? If you can't hold your fingers to the case of the
    >> drive for at least ten seconds without pain, it is to freakin' hot and
    >> you've got to do _something_ to fix that problem RIGHT NOW.

    >
    >I hope it is lying, I remember doing a search online for this drive model
    >and I recall some discussion about it reporting hot temperatures.


    >|/dev/sda|ST3500630AS|36|C||/dev/sdb|WDC WD2500JS-00MHB0|56|C||/dev/sdc|
    >ST3200827AS|34|C||/dev/sdd|WDC WD2000JB-00KFA0|31|C|


    OK - what do we have here? Four SATA 7200 RPM drives - yes, this puppy
    is going to be warm. How are they physically crammed into the box?
    Is the WD2500JS the top one of a stack, or stuck in an unventilated
    area? Above, I suggested sticking your fingers in there and
    seeing if the drive is actually hotter than the others. You really
    do want to do that, now. Take care not to short things, or cut
    yourself on sharp edges, but physically touch the drive. NOW.

    Don't worry about filling the logs, or anything else. Figure out if
    it really is hot or not. If it's not, then the sensors are lying, and
    that happens. You can ignore the lies. If it IS hot, you need to fix
    the problem. The drive itself shouldn't be generating that much more
    heat, so either it's in a bad physical location and you need to get
    more cooling air in there, or the case is to small (how big is it?)
    and needs to be replaced, or the SMART electronics is lying.

    Old guy

  18. Re: lmsensors

    On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 15:04:05 -0600, Moe Trin wrote:
    the temperature decreases ON AVERAGE about 2C per thousand feet/330
    > meters of height. It actually varies quite a bit more than that, as
    > where I live is _usually_ 4-6C cooler than downtown - verses the 1.3C
    > theoretical average.


    Not really sure it is much cooler up here but maybe 4C sounds about
    right. I thought just being inland would make it colder at night.

    Tell you what though, global warming is hitting Australia - our snow
    fields are shrinking. I remember a difference even as a kid, and
    Canberra used to be much colder in winter, even snowed occasionally. Not
    any more!

  19. Re: lmsensors

    On 11 Nov 2007 02:34:31 GMT
    Demosthenes wrote:

    > On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 15:04:05 -0600, Moe Trin wrote:
    > the temperature decreases ON AVERAGE about 2C per thousand feet/330
    > > meters of height. It actually varies quite a bit more than that, as
    > > where I live is _usually_ 4-6C cooler than downtown - verses the 1.3C
    > > theoretical average.

    >
    > Not really sure it is much cooler up here but maybe 4C sounds about
    > right. I thought just being inland would make it colder at night.
    >
    > Tell you what though, global warming is hitting Australia - our snow
    > fields are shrinking. I remember a difference even as a kid, and
    > Canberra used to be much colder in winter, even snowed occasionally. Not
    > any more!


    I'm still sitting here waiting for our summer, I must have blinked and
    missed it :-(

    --
    If you can do ballet then you can do anything
    except reach high things because you're dinky.
    Kiera Best - Aged 6.

  20. Re: lmsensors

    On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 11:12:40 +0000, Trevor Best wrote:

    >> Tell you what though, global warming is hitting Australia - our snow
    >> fields are shrinking. I remember a difference even as a kid, and
    >> Canberra used to be much colder in winter, even snowed occasionally. Not
    >> any more!

    >
    > I'm still sitting here waiting for our summer, I must have blinked and
    > missed it :-(


    You may have a while to wait, I can see snow from where I'm sitting.

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