Opinions related to VirtualBox, VMWare, guest Windows - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on Opinions related to VirtualBox, VMWare, guest Windows - Ubuntu ; On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 02:44:26 -0500, Stephan Rose wrote: > On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 00:34:32 +0000, Wes Groleau wrote: > >> Stephan Rose wrote: >>> 384MB would already be pushing it with *only* windows on the >>> machine...nevermind ...

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Thread: Opinions related to VirtualBox, VMWare, guest Windows

  1. Re: Opinions related to VirtualBox, VMWare, guest Windows

    On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 02:44:26 -0500, Stephan Rose wrote:

    > On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 00:34:32 +0000, Wes Groleau wrote:
    >
    >> Stephan Rose wrote:
    >>> 384MB would already be pushing it with *only* windows on the
    >>> machine...nevermind running as a guest under another OS.
    >>>
    >>> XP needs at least 512 megs. Need around 256 megs for Ubuntu.

    >>
    >> When I got the machine, it had 256 MB and XP ran OK. I added a hard
    >> drive, put Ubuntu on it, and instead of using GRUB or LILO, put in a
    >> key-operated switch.
    >>
    >> I never turned the key unless everything was shut down. Nevertheless,
    >> shortly after installing the switch, XP became unbootable. Ubuntu
    >> needs 256 meg for what? Most of the time it's only a DNS server for two
    >> iMacs and an ancient FreeBSD machine.

    >
    > Right now Ubuntu is eating 250 megs on my system. 256 megs is also the
    > official number of ram you should have.


    What are you running in startup? I just checked my memory usage, and I
    am around 250M right now, and that is while running a Feisty VM in the
    background, while having Pan, Thunderbird, Evolution and Firefox running
    on my desktop.

    I get near 1G when I am running all 3 VM's...





    --
    Joe - Registered Linux User #449481
    joe at hits - buffalo dot com
    "Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
    time..." - Danny, American History X

  2. Re: Opinions related to VirtualBox, VMWare, guest Windows

    On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 11:23:33 -0500, Joe wrote:

    > On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 02:44:26 -0500, Stephan Rose wrote:
    >
    >> On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 00:34:32 +0000, Wes Groleau wrote:
    >>
    >>> Stephan Rose wrote:
    >>>> 384MB would already be pushing it with *only* windows on the
    >>>> machine...nevermind running as a guest under another OS.
    >>>>
    >>>> XP needs at least 512 megs. Need around 256 megs for Ubuntu.
    >>>
    >>> When I got the machine, it had 256 MB and XP ran OK. I added a hard
    >>> drive, put Ubuntu on it, and instead of using GRUB or LILO, put in a
    >>> key-operated switch.
    >>>
    >>> I never turned the key unless everything was shut down. Nevertheless,
    >>> shortly after installing the switch, XP became unbootable. Ubuntu
    >>> needs 256 meg for what? Most of the time it's only a DNS server for
    >>> two iMacs and an ancient FreeBSD machine.

    >>
    >> Right now Ubuntu is eating 250 megs on my system. 256 megs is also the
    >> official number of ram you should have.

    >
    > What are you running in startup? I just checked my memory usage, and I
    > am around 250M right now, and that is while running a Feisty VM in the
    > background, while having Pan, Thunderbird, Evolution and Firefox running
    > on my desktop.
    >
    > I get near 1G when I am running all 3 VM's...


    Nothing fancy, just whatever Ubuntu has running by default. I removed the
    bluetooth thing though.

    I know I could trim the memory usage a little bit but why bother when
    I've got 3 gigs to play with? 50 megs more or less aren't really going to
    make a difference.

    --
    Stephan
    2003 Yamaha R6

    君のこと思い出す日なんてないのは
    君のこと忘れたときがないから

  3. Re: Opinions related to VirtualBox, VMWare, guest Windows

    Stephan Rose wrote:
    >> Still, it sounds like "coexistence" is going to be impractical. If I
    >> ever get my SPARC running, I can move the DNS over there and let the
    >> Intel be the token Windows box.


    Well, I guess not. The store that sold the Intel with Windows
    took it back in trade then sold it to me. When it crashed, they
    couldn't find the product key so they gave me another CD instead.

    It won't validate, and Microsoft says I have to go out and
    buy another copy of Windows. I offered them five dollars
    but they wouldn't take it. Since that's all it's worth, ...

    > Just go get some more RAM. =)


    Now _that_ is worth more than five dollars. But I can't afford it.

    --
    Wes Groleau

    "A miracle is a violation of the laws of nature, and as a
    firm and unalterable experience has established these laws,
    the proof against a miracle, from the very nature of the fact,
    is as entire as could possibly be imagined."
    -- David Hume, age 37

    "There's no such thing of that, 'cause I never heard of it."
    -- Becky Groleau, age 4

  4. Re: Opinions related to VirtualBox, VMWare, guest Windows

    Stephan Rose wrote:
    > Right now Ubuntu is eating 250 megs on my system. 256 megs is also the
    > official number of ram you should have.
    > Though that is assuming a desktop.


    I set a cron job to log 'top' and 'uptime' every hour.

    With KDE running but no one logged in, I have 99 processes using
    218 MB RAM and NO swap.

    > If you're running headless as a server, you can get away with less.


    But if I ran Win XP under VMWare, I'd need a GUI for it, no?

    Anyway, until I can afford more RAM, there's only 166 MB left
    for a Windows that M$ refuses to validate anyway.

    I guess if I can fix the MBR on the old disk I can use it.
    But I was hoping to get Windows on a smaller disk and use
    that big one for something useful. :-)

    --
    Wes Groleau

    "A miracle is a violation of the laws of nature, and as a
    firm and unalterable experience has established these laws,
    the proof against a miracle, from the very nature of the fact,
    is as entire as could possibly be imagined."
    -- David Hume, age 37

    "There's no such thing of that, 'cause I never heard of it."
    -- Becky Groleau, age 4

  5. Re: Opinions related to VirtualBox, VMWare, guest Windows


    "Wes Groleau" wrote in message
    news:CKBOi.2441$ln.1208@trnddc07...
    > Stephan Rose wrote:
    > > Right now Ubuntu is eating 250 megs on my system. 256 megs is also the
    > > official number of ram you should have.
    > > Though that is assuming a desktop.

    I have 256 Meg total in my box and it has 80 Meg left after booting Ubu
    7.04. Is there a way to free up or defrag ram in Ubuntu as there is in the
    "High Price Spread"?
    > I set a cron job to log 'top' and 'uptime' every hour.
    >
    > With KDE running but no one logged in, I have 99 processes using
    > 218 MB RAM and NO swap.
    >
    > > If you're running headless as a server, you can get away with less.

    >
    > But if I ran Win XP under VMWare, I'd need a GUI for it, no?
    >
    > Anyway, until I can afford more RAM, there's only 166 MB left
    > for a Windows that M$ refuses to validate anyway.

    You can use XP for thirty days without validation. Any way that you can use
    it inVMware and reload it at the end of each month? I did that as a dual
    boot but went to W.98 as my second boot. It even works better on my old
    Pentium II 400 and does not need validation. Just a thought.
    > I guess if I can fix the MBR on the old disk I can use it.
    > But I was hoping to get Windows on a smaller disk and use
    > that big one for something useful. :-)
    >
    > --
    > Wes Groleau
    >
    > "A miracle is a violation of the laws of nature, and as a
    > firm and unalterable experience has established these laws,
    > the proof against a miracle, from the very nature of the fact,
    > is as entire as could possibly be imagined."
    > -- David Hume, age 37
    >
    > "There's no such thing of that, 'cause I never heard of it."
    > -- Becky Groleau, age 4




  6. Re: Opinions related to VirtualBox, VMWare, guest Windows

    Wes Groleau wrote:
    > Stephan Rose wrote:
    >> Right now Ubuntu is eating 250 megs on my system. 256 megs is also
    >> the official number of ram you should have.
    >> Though that is assuming a desktop.

    >
    > I set a cron job to log 'top' and 'uptime' every hour.



    Why log uptime?

    Besides it is part of top anyway.


    --
    John

    No Microsoft products were used in the preparation or transmission of this message.

    The EULA sounds like it was written by a team of lawyers who want to tell me what I can't do. The GPL sounds like it was written by a human being, who wants me to know what I can do.

  7. Re: Opinions related to VirtualBox, VMWare, guest Windows

    pfyearwood wrote:


    > You can use XP for thirty days without validation.



    You do not need to "validate" XP. It runs fine (well?) forever (well --
    with many reboots) without validating.

    Just tell it you will validate later (by snail mail or any method off-line).

    I've never "validated" any Windows install, and they have been running
    since 1995 (besides a few crashes).


    --
    John

    No Microsoft products were used in the preparation or transmission of this message.

    The EULA sounds like it was written by a team of lawyers who want to tell me what I can't do. The GPL sounds like it was written by a human being, who wants me to know what I can do.

  8. Re: Opinions related to VirtualBox, VMWare, guest Windows

    On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 10:25:13 GMT
    "John F. Morse" wrote:

    > pfyearwood wrote:
    >
    >
    > > You can use XP for thirty days without validation.

    >
    >
    > You do not need to "validate" XP. It runs fine (well?) forever (well --
    > with many reboots) without validating.
    >
    > Just tell it you will validate later (by snail mail or any method off-line).
    >
    > I've never "validated" any Windows install, and they have been running
    > since 1995 (besides a few crashes).


    Doesn't always work. On 2 installations on VMs I had it complain that
    it must be activated *now*, it appears to activate OK then requires a
    reboot, gets into an endless loop like that. I normally give
    up at that point and put Win 2000 on.

    You sure about that date? I thought XP was 2002, that's some
    pre-release copy you had there ;-)

    --
    You can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead.
    Stan Laurel

  9. Re: Opinions related to VirtualBox, VMWare, guest Windows

    John F. Morse wrote:
    > You do not need to "validate" XP. It runs fine (well?) forever (well --
    > with many reboots) without validating.


    Windows itself did not ask me to validate.

    But windows update refused to give me any updates
    until validated. And I know very well it needs
    AT LEAST twenty security updates.

    --
    Wes Groleau

    Always listen to experts. They'll tell you
    what can't be done and why. Then do it.
    -- Robert A. Heinlein

  10. Re: Opinions related to VirtualBox, VMWare, guest Windows

    John F. Morse wrote:
    > Why log uptime?
    > Besides it is part of top anyway.


    I grep'd the mem line of top.

    It was easier to add 'uptime' on its own line
    than to change the regexp to get that line from 'top'

    --
    Wes Groleau

    Nobody believes a theoretical analysis -- except the guy who did it.
    Everybody believes an experimental analysis -- except the guy who
    did it.
    -- Unknown

  11. Re: Opinions related to VirtualBox, VMWare, guest Windows

    In Wes Groleau:

    [Snip...]

    > AT LEAST twenty security updates


    Yet Ubuntu LTS runs for what, three years, completely phrickin' free?

    Also, I've been using other Linux support sites years now free too, before
    testdriving Ubuntu after Novell went to the Darkside a year or so ago.

    IMO, this clearly demonstrates M$ doesn't give two hoots about the net, or
    their victims^Wcustomers. Remember when The Emperor said security would be
    "Job One" with XP/Longhorn development, what, nearly a decade ago now? And
    botnets like Storm could have been nipped in the bud (watch linewrap):

    http://www.wired.com/politics/securi...tters/2007/10/
    securitymatters_1004

    Yo, Emperor: liar, liar; pants on fire...

    --
    Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
    Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.
    Really, it's (wyrd) at airmail, dotted with net. DO NOT SPAM IT.
    Kids jumping ship? Looking to hire an old-school type? Email me.

  12. Re: Opinions related to VirtualBox, VMWare, guest Windows

    Trevor Best wrote:
    > On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 10:25:13 GMT
    > "John F. Morse" wrote:
    >
    >
    >> pfyearwood wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>> You can use XP for thirty days without validation.
    >>>

    >> You do not need to "validate" XP. It runs fine (well?) forever (well --
    >> with many reboots) without validating.
    >>
    >> Just tell it you will validate later (by snail mail or any method off-line).
    >>
    >> I've never "validated" any Windows install, and they have been running
    >> since 1995 (besides a few crashes).
    >>

    >
    > Doesn't always work. On 2 installations on VMs I had it complain that
    > it must be activated *now*, it appears to activate OK then requires a
    > reboot, gets into an endless loop like that. I normally give
    > up at that point and put Win 2000 on.
    >
    > You sure about that date? I thought XP was 2002, that's some
    > pre-release copy you had there ;-)



    Gnaw....

    That was for the Win 95!

    Win 3x before that didn't need any validation, IIRC. Back then,
    everybody was honest.

    Didn't validate Win 95, 95B, 98, 98SE, XP Pro, XP Pro SP1 and XP Pro SP2.

    Again, IIRC, maybe the XP is all that attempted to get me to phone home.
    I don't remember the 98SE that I installed under QEMU on Ubuntu 7.04
    asking me.

    Wife's XP Home SP2 is on a preloaded contest win PC. I try not to touch
    it. ;-)


    --
    John

    No Microsoft products were used in the preparation or transmission of this message.

    The EULA sounds like it was written by a team of lawyers who want to tell me what I can't do. The GPL sounds like it was written by a human being, who wants me to know what I can do.

  13. Re: Opinions related to VirtualBox, VMWare, guest Windows

    Wes Groleau wrote:
    > John F. Morse wrote:
    >> You do not need to "validate" XP. It runs fine (well?) forever (well
    >> -- with many reboots) without validating.

    >
    > Windows itself did not ask me to validate.
    >
    > But windows update refused to give me any updates
    > until validated. And I know very well it needs
    > AT LEAST twenty security updates.



    There are ways around that nonsense. At least up through XP Pro SP2,
    including the SP1 and SP2 installs, until about a year ago.

    Then it balked, and I refused.

    That PC is within days of a Debian 4.0 takeover!


    --
    John

    No Microsoft products were used in the preparation or transmission of this message.

    The EULA sounds like it was written by a team of lawyers who want to tell me what I can't do. The GPL sounds like it was written by a human being, who wants me to know what I can do.

  14. Re: Opinions related to VirtualBox, VMWare, guest Windows

    Wes Groleau wrote:
    > John F. Morse wrote:
    >> Why log uptime?
    >> Besides it is part of top anyway.

    >
    > I grep'd the mem line of top.
    >
    > It was easier to add 'uptime' on its own line
    > than to change the regexp to get that line from 'top'



    Understood. Thanks.

    Have you considered using "free" instead of top?

    --
    John

    No Microsoft products were used in the preparation or transmission of this message.

    The EULA sounds like it was written by a team of lawyers who want to tell me what I can't do. The GPL sounds like it was written by a human being, who wants me to know what I can do.

  15. Re: Opinions related to VirtualBox, VMWare, guest Windows

    On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 05:27:25 GMT
    "John F. Morse" wrote:

    > Win 3x before that didn't need any validation, IIRC. Back then,
    > everybody was honest.


    Ah the good ol' days when you could leave your front door open :-)

    > Didn't validate Win 95, 95B, 98, 98SE, XP Pro, XP Pro SP1 and XP Pro SP2.
    >
    > Again, IIRC, maybe the XP is all that attempted to get me to phone home.
    > I don't remember the 98SE that I installed under QEMU on Ubuntu 7.04
    > asking me.


    Up to 2000 you didn't need activation. If ever an XP key failed on me I
    generally just got another key. Being as I was either on an MS Partner
    program, MSDN Sub or MS Action Pack. I think before you activate you
    can get critical updates via automatic updates but you need to activate
    to get the optional updates, although in theory you can download and
    install them separately there are a plethora of them so that's not
    practical unless you run a large network.

    > Wife's XP Home SP2 is on a preloaded contest win PC. I try not to touch
    > it. ;-)


    My wife gets whatever I bung on her PC, she doesn't know Windows from
    Office, for her it's just "Microsoft", now she has windows without
    Microsoft written on them and her blue internet thing is being eaten by
    an orange thing.

    --
    You can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead.
    Stan Laurel

  16. Re: Opinions related to VirtualBox, VMWare, guest Windows

    John F. Morse wrote:
    > Win 3x before that didn't need any validation, IIRC. Back then,
    > everybody was honest.


    No, it's just that back then Microsoft hadn't figured out
    people wouldn't pay high prices for their crap if they
    could get out of it easily.

    --
    Wes Groleau
    -----------
    Curmudgeon's Complaints on Courtesy:
    http://www.onlinenetiquette.com/courtesy1.html
    (Not necessarily my opinion, but worth reading)

  17. Re: Opinions related to VirtualBox, VMWare, guest Windows

    John F. Morse wrote:
    > Have you considered using "free" instead of top?


    no. I'll 'man' that. Thanks.

    --
    Wes Groleau
    -----------
    Curmudgeon's Complaints on Courtesy:
    http://www.onlinenetiquette.com/courtesy1.html
    (Not necessarily my opinion, but worth reading)

  18. Re: Opinions related to VirtualBox, VMWare, guest Windows

    Trevor Best wrote:
    >> Wife's XP Home SP2 is on a preloaded contest win PC. I try not to touch
    >> it. ;-)
    >>

    >
    > My wife gets whatever I bung on her PC, she doesn't know Windows from
    > Office, for her it's just "Microsoft", now she has windows without
    > Microsoft written on them and her blue internet thing is being eaten by
    > an orange thing.



    My wife hollers "Stupid" at hers all of the time.

    But I guess that is just a synonym for your wife's term. ;-)

    --
    John

    No Microsoft products were used in the preparation or transmission of this message.

    The EULA sounds like it was written by a team of lawyers who want to tell me what I can't do. The GPL sounds like it was written by a human being, who wants me to know what I can do.

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