Good Ubuntu/Slackware review/comparison - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on Good Ubuntu/Slackware review/comparison - Ubuntu ; On 2007-09-30, SINNER wrote: > * s. keeling wrote in alt.os.linux.ubuntu: >> SINNER : >>> * Dan C wrote in alt.os.linux.ubuntu: >>> > Some good reading here: > >>> > http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/93393/ >> He also mentions Slackware assumes the user will ...

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Thread: Good Ubuntu/Slackware review/comparison

  1. Re: Good Ubuntu/Slackware review/comparison

    On 2007-09-30, SINNER <99nesorjd@gates_of_hell.invalid> wrote:
    > * s. keeling wrote in alt.os.linux.ubuntu:
    >> SINNER <99nesorjd@gates_of_hell.invalid>:
    >>> * Dan C wrote in alt.os.linux.ubuntu:
    >>> > Some good reading here:

    >
    >>> > http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/93393/

    >> He also mentions Slackware assumes the user will be doing plenty of
    >> compiling. You don't fit the Slackware mold, in that way.


    [...]

    > I dont? I compile as needed and install the libs required. It still
    > dosent answer the questions as to why anyone would need all[most]
    > available dev libs on a system when they only use 15 apps.


    Mind you I just ran a quick test and installed the svn mplayer on my
    Slackware HDD following these rather elegantly written directions:

    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=558538

    minus the Ubuntu specific directions and minus the 50 megs of lib /
    dev files. And I will have to say that the _default_ Slackware
    installation was very smooth and worked 'straight out of the box'
    unlike the torure of assembling all of those dev files for the ubuntu
    install.

    Mind you the Slackware install could have used a bit more work but I
    think it validates the idea that Slackware 12 is a better distro for
    compiling software. I say this as a committed Ubuntu user, hey that is
    my svn mplayer guide after all :-)

    Andrew

    --
    'Name him not!' said Gandalf, and for a moment
    it seemed that a look of pain passed over his face,
    and he sat silent, looking old as death.

  2. Re: Good Ubuntu/Slackware review/comparison

    s. keeling a écrit :
    >
    > Slackware has netpkg. Slick pkg mgr.
    >

    Wrong. There may be several third-party efforts to implement bloated
    kitchen-sink-like package managers, but Slackware has *one* package
    manager, that's installpkg from the pkgtools package:

    - installpkg
    - removepkg
    - upgradepkg
    - explodepkg

    There's a command that shows you the dependency handler in Slackware:

    $ whoami

    )

    Niki Kovacs (sysadmin, Slackware user since 2001)

  3. Re: Good Ubuntu/Slackware review/comparison

    andrew a écrit :
    > On 2007-09-30, Dan C wrote:
    >
    > [...]
    >
    >> I don't know the answer to that. A guess would be that the dev libs are
    >> fairly small in size, and are not used except when compiling, so they
    >> don't really contribute to "bloat". It does make it nice, when attempting
    >> to compile something, to have it just work without having to fiddle around
    >> finding some obscure library to install. YMMV.


    He did it for a precise reason that's even documented in the ChangeLog.
    I compiled full GNOME desktops several times, so I know GNOME quite
    well. Two words to describe this: undocumented horror.

    Regards,

    Niki Kovacs

  4. Re: Good Ubuntu/Slackware review/comparison

    brummie a écrit :
    >
    > To me that is no comparison just a slagging of of Ubuntu for being such a
    > noob friendly OS. The author obviously doesn't realise that 99%+ of the
    > worlds population doesn't have his/her wisdom.
    >
    > I have to ask why Ubuntu is so popular where slackware isn't?


    Slackware is not *that* popular, although it keeps a steady position. I
    began learning Linux back in 2001, with Slackware 7.1 (or 8.0?) on a
    battered 486. I got on the basiclinux.net mailing list, and within a few
    months, I had learnt some solid basics... but everything was
    commandline! Internet, Mail, News, Chatting.

    Now, six years later, I'm working as a sysadmin, caring of servers and
    desktops in eleven small towns (town halls, public libraries). We're
    mainly running CentOS and Debian, though I'm currently busy replacing
    all these by Slackware installs.

    I've tested quite a lot of distros for server and desktop systems
    (Debian, Slackware, SuSE, Fedora, KateOS, Arch, Gentoo, Mandriva,
    Vector, Mepis, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, etcetera, many many others).
    Exactly two of them were perfect: Slackware and CentOS. I would have
    added a third: Libranet. But that has been discontinued unfortunately,
    following Jon Danzig's tragic death.

    I need to have a flexible system, which means: easily customizable.
    Where source code builds fine, where boot and config scripts are clearly
    written, and Slackware provides exactly that for me. Right now I'm
    running a database server on Slack 12.0 that eats no more than 16 MB RAM
    in idle state.

    Cheers,

    Niki Kovacs

  5. Re: Good Ubuntu/Slackware review/comparison

    Niki Kovacs writes:

    >
    > I need to have a flexible system, which means: easily
    > customizable. Where source code builds fine, where boot and config
    > scripts are clearly written, and Slackware provides exactly that for
    > me. Right now I'm running a database server on Slack 12.0 that eats no
    > more than 16 MB RAM in idle state.


    What is the name of the database server and how or why is it Slackware
    specific? How is slackware any easier to config than, say, Debian or Ubuntu?

    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Niki Kovacs


    --
    [Babe] Ruth made a big mistake when he gave up pitching.
    -- Tris Speaker, 1921

  6. Re: Good Ubuntu/Slackware review/comparison

    Hadron a écrit :
    >
    > What is the name of the database server and how or why is it Slackware
    > specific? How is slackware any easier to config than, say, Debian or Ubuntu?


    Well, it's good old MySQL. Currently interconnecting eleven public
    libraries with something like 60.000 records, steadily growing.

    Debian and Ubuntu default to utf-8, and MySQL doesn't handle utf-8
    correctly. Of course I can always dpkg-reconfigure locales, but this
    results in a mess in other places. I'd say utf-8 is the future... so
    I'll willingly use it in the future )

    I've given Ubuntu Server 6.06 LTS a shot. Since our database needs the
    Z39.50 protocol to intercommunicate with public library catalogues (the
    Biblithèque de France, for example), I need some php modules like yaz.
    Yaz is OK in Debian, but the Ubuntu module has been broken for months.
    I've filed a bug report on this, but for months, it kept being ignored.
    I had found a workaround for this by building dummy packages with
    equivs, but then, I might as well build clean packages on a clean Slack.

    And then, some software needs some specific configs, like when it's only
    running on PHP4 and not PHP5, or only MySQL4 and not MySQL5 (they're not
    backwards-compatible in some points). I've had this situation recently,
    and when stable went from Sarge to Etch, I had to jump through burning
    loops to keep my config. Never again.

    Last but not least: try setting up a headless CUPS printer server on
    Ubuntu Server 6.06 and appreciate all the horrible things they did to
    CUPS. That's one thing I like about Slackware: Patrick V. keeps the
    software as it is intended by the author.

    I've been using Debian for years, and my own website
    (http://linux.kikinovak.net) is still heavily Debian-centered. I've
    setup all our public library network here on Debian and CentOS... only
    to find out after a year that when the **** hits the fan, simple things
    are simply better. Hence my preference for Slackware.

    Last but not least, I hate the bunch of affective retards on
    irc.debian.org, but that's strictly personlal )

    cheers,

    Niki Kovacs

  7. Re: Good Ubuntu/Slackware review/comparison

    Niki Kovacs writes:

    > Last but not least: try setting up a headless CUPS printer server on
    > Ubuntu Server 6.06 and appreciate all the horrible things they did to
    > CUPS. That's one thing I like about Slackware: Patrick V. keeps the
    > software as it is intended by the author.


    Good to hear you say this. When I raised this I was told by certain
    advocates that i was a liar and that CUPS is CUPS no matter where. Ditto
    for Apache2 and Emacs. All three are totally tinkered with in Ubuntu
    compared to some other distros. Emacs is a nightmare under Debian/Ubuntu
    because for some reason they decided to adopt a brain dead, impossible
    to follow system auto-load set up which confuses the hell out of anyone
    who wants to compile from CVS.

  8. Re: Good Ubuntu/Slackware review/comparison

    andrew a écrit :
    >
    > I downloaded the dvd slackware 12 and it did seem to have most of the
    > internet on it :-)


    The DVD includes *all* of the sources and buildscripts. That comes in
    handy if you have to rebuild some package (httpd, samba, kdemultimedia,
    whatever). I do this a lot, and it always went smoothly, compared to
    deb-src.

    Another thing is that the KDEI packages (kde-i18n-LANG) eat much space.

    Cheers,

    Niki

    PS: most of the "kitchen sink" stuff comes in handy for sysadmins. Think
    genpower, nmap, lsof, ...

    >
    > Andrew
    >
    >


  9. Re: Good Ubuntu/Slackware review/comparison

    Hadron a écrit :
    > Niki Kovacs writes:
    >
    >> Last but not least: try setting up a headless CUPS printer server on
    >> Ubuntu Server 6.06 and appreciate all the horrible things they did to
    >> CUPS. That's one thing I like about Slackware: Patrick V. keeps the
    >> software as it is intended by the author.

    >
    > Good to hear you say this. When I raised this I was told by certain
    > advocates that i was a liar and that CUPS is CUPS no matter where. Ditto
    > for Apache2 and Emacs. All three are totally tinkered with in Ubuntu
    > compared to some other distros. Emacs is a nightmare under Debian/Ubuntu
    > because for some reason they decided to adopt a brain dead, impossible
    > to follow system auto-load set up which confuses the hell out of anyone
    > who wants to compile from CVS.


    I know that distribution comparisons easily turn into flame fests or
    even full-blown religious wars...

    My approach to distros is very simple. I need some system for work. For
    servers and for installing clients. I have a checklist that's about 150
    items long, for servers and for desktops, and I simply go through it,
    item by item, and see how I can go along with the distribution.
    Slackware 11.0 did not make it (because of the default 2.4 and the
    impossibility to make HAL work correctly). But 12.0 is perfect. CentOS
    5.0 is also perfect, but is more hungry on resources. Though I advise
    everyone to give it a shot, it's a distro of astonishing quality.

    Ubuntu is great in quite many aspects. I often wished it could make my
    life easier. But then, it has a series of showstoppers that may not be
    obvious to a home user.

    On the other hand, I'm glad to hear that HP and Dell will soon be
    selling laptops with Ubuntu preinstalled. Everything that helps to
    spread the open source gospel is OK.

    cheers,

    Niki

  10. Re: Good Ubuntu/Slackware review/comparison



    O.K.

    So I will have a machine at home soon that will be opening up for whatever.

    It is a p3 1gig copper mine with 768megs of pc100. I want to buy three
    or four very large hard drives and turn it into a network server
    (data/music) and backup machine for important stuff off the other
    machines (something like rsync). After reading the general comments
    through out this thread I am thinking of doing it as a slackbox for the
    learning experience. I have been using Ubuntu as my desktop box at home
    for about two years now. There is also one xp pro box on the network (my
    4 year olds for ed games) and one Vista laptop.

    Where should I start my reading?

    Ryan

  11. Re: Good Ubuntu/Slackware review/comparison

    usenet identity a écrit :
    >
    >
    > O.K.
    >
    > So I will have a machine at home soon that will be opening up for whatever.
    >
    > It is a p3 1gig copper mine with 768megs of pc100. I want to buy three
    > or four very large hard drives and turn it into a network server
    > (data/music) and backup machine for important stuff off the other
    > machines (something like rsync).


    I just finished something similar on a headless NEC machine I got from
    the employment agency in Montpellier (I was a Linux trainer for their
    sysadmins, they were happy with the 4-months course, so now they give me
    their useless hardware D ). Running Slackware 12.0 without X, and
    among other things, I just installed a streaming audio server. Audio
    server is MPD, sending its data to Icecast... though Icecast is running
    300 kms away on our (Debian Sarge) database server, so I have like 100
    times more bandwidth, because at home I only have low-bandwidth DSL D

    If you wanna give it a shot:

    http://80.247.231.122:8000/radionovak.ogg

    Use XMMS, VLC or Amarok to play it.


    After reading the general comments
    > through out this thread I am thinking of doing it as a slackbox for the
    > learning experience. I have been using Ubuntu as my desktop box at home
    > for about two years now. There is also one xp pro box on the network (my
    > 4 year olds for ed games) and one Vista laptop.
    >
    > Where should I start my reading?


    1) www.slackbasics.org (just being updated for 12.0)

    2) www.slackbook.org

    3) "The Linux Cookbook" (Carla Schroder)

    4) Follow the online course + mailing list at linuxbasics.org

    This should give you a CLUE(tm) = Command Line User Experience ;o)

    Cheers,

    Niki

  12. Re: Good Ubuntu/Slackware review/comparison

    On 2007-09-30, Dan C wrote:
    > Some good reading here:
    >
    > http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/93393/


    Even more interesting is the slackware thread which responds to the
    same article. Message ID:



    Andrew


    --
    'Name him not!' said Gandalf, and for a moment
    it seemed that a look of pain passed over his face,
    and he sat silent, looking old as death.

  13. Re: Good Ubuntu/Slackware review/comparison

    On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 13:03:49 +0200, Niki Kovacs wrote:

    Snipped

    > There's a command that shows you the dependency handler in Slackware:
    >
    > $ whoami
    >
    > )


    LOL! That is funny, I guess it applies to every distro!



    --
    MCR
    MAME - History In The Making
    Ubuntu - Nuff said

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