7 Reasons Why Linux Won't Succeed On The Desktop - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on 7 Reasons Why Linux Won't Succeed On The Desktop - Ubuntu ; On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:15:53 +0100, Chris Game wrote: > On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:52:30 -0500, Stephen J. Rush wrote: > >> Provide .rpm and .deb packages and you have most of the Linux >> market covered. BTW, ...

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Thread: 7 Reasons Why Linux Won't Succeed On The Desktop

  1. Re: 7 Reasons Why Linux Won't Succeed On The Desktop

    On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:15:53 +0100, Chris Game wrote:

    > On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:52:30 -0500, Stephen J. Rush wrote:
    >
    >> Provide .rpm and .deb packages and you have most of the Linux
    >> market covered.


    BTW, .debs are largely portable across apt-based distros, .rpms much less
    so.

    > Are you seriously telling us that all there is to distro management
    > is the provision of some packages in a repository?


    No, but - even so - it's still several orders of magnitude beyond what your
    beloved Windows has.

  2. Re: 7 Reasons Why Linux Won't Succeed On The Desktop

    In article , who cares? says...

    [snip]

    >With windows I install software as a simple point and click operation. Linux
    >needs to be so simple that software can be installed by plumbers, house wives,
    >truck drivers, school children, grandparents, salesmen, etc. When Linux gets
    >to that simple a level of operation, windows will fade.



    A thoughtful and perceptive essay, sir. I disagree only here. It is already
    this easy to install software in Linux. Synaptic has removed the frustration of
    dependency hell (most of it, anyway), and while Synaptic can be daunting for a
    newcomer to use, the Adept updater that comes with Kubuntu most certainly is
    not. It is graphical (icons show you pictures of what you're installing),
    written in everyday language, and as simple as ticking a checkbox. If you have
    a broadband connection, Linux is the world's software candy store. I picked out
    about a gig and a half of software I wanted one Sunday morning, clicked apply,
    went to church, and when I got home it was done. Sure can't do that in Windows
    ...


  3. Re: 7 Reasons Why Linux Won't Succeed On The Desktop

    Chris Game wrote:

    > On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:52:30 -0500, Stephen J. Rush wrote:
    >
    >> Provide .rpm and .deb packages and you have most of the Linux
    >> market covered.

    >
    > Are you seriously telling us that all there is to distro management
    > is the provision of some packages in a repository?
    >


    No, that is the simple part
    Distro management also includes resolution of dependencies. That way updates
    don't break the system, uninstall can be complete without leaving crud
    behind.
    Also apps like "alien" provide a means to use the respective "other" package
    tool, making packages available across distros

    It is a *lot* more than the idiotic windows installers are able to achieve
    --
    Warning: You have moved the mouse.
    Windows will reboot now to make the change permanent


  4. Re: 7 Reasons Why Linux Won't Succeed On The Desktop

    On 2007-09-28, CBFalconer wrote:
    >> Hang on. If he wants to run Netscape, then surely that's his choice.
    >> Also, netscape is most certainly still available and being developed.


    > No, Netscape is no longer being developed. The open-source version
    > was buggy until they dropped the 'complete system' attitude and
    > broke it up into Firefox and Thunderbird. Netscape 7 was an AOL
    > modification of the corresponding Mozilla anyhow.


    Jesus, you're a dumb ****. I think windoze 98 has rotted your brain,
    you ignorant win-droid.

    Check out this page, dimwit:
    http://browser.netscape.com/

    Now, fix your non-Netiquette-compliant signature block, and then just
    bugger off out of the Linux newsgroups. You use Win98, why are you even
    around? Are you just a common troll, or are you really this stupid?


    --
    "Ubuntu" - an African word meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".


  5. Re: 7 Reasons Why Linux Won't Succeed On The Desktop

    Dan C writes:

    > On 2007-09-28, CBFalconer wrote:
    >>> Hang on. If he wants to run Netscape, then surely that's his choice.
    >>> Also, netscape is most certainly still available and being developed.

    >
    >> No, Netscape is no longer being developed. The open-source version
    >> was buggy until they dropped the 'complete system' attitude and
    >> broke it up into Firefox and Thunderbird. Netscape 7 was an AOL
    >> modification of the corresponding Mozilla anyhow.

    >
    > Jesus, you're a dumb ****. I think windoze 98 has rotted your brain,
    > you ignorant win-droid.
    >
    > Check out this page, dimwit:
    > http://browser.netscape.com/
    >
    > Now, fix your non-Netiquette-compliant signature block, and then just
    > bugger off out of the Linux newsgroups. You use Win98, why are you even
    > around? Are you just a common troll, or are you really this stupid?


    It would appear that people in other groups are as pissed off with this
    guy. He seems to think he's some sort of Linux and C guru. He is even
    reminding people to snip signatures in other groups.

    --
    Sólo los necios se encuentran satisfechos y confiados con la calidad de
    su trabajo.
    -- Mercedes Milá.

  6. Re: (OT) Troll Alert (Was: 7 Reasons Why Linux Won't BlahBlahBlah)

    That was pretty funny stuff...

    Personally I don't put any creedence into anything eminating out of
    Informationweek as these are just a bunch of high-school journalists who
    really don't have a clue about anything except cow-towing to their
    advertisers every whim. Whether any of their data is factual or not!

    Good call though!

    Cheers;
    Jeff

    Peter Khlmann wrote:
    > Harold Stevens wrote:
    >
    >> In <46fa3f75$0$4973$4c368faf@roadrunner.com> Ralph Machio:
    >>
    >> [Snip...]
    >>
    >> Take your gawdforsakin bloggers' FUD to cola, fercryinoutloud.
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Nope.
    >
    > alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk would be more appropriate
    >
    > COLA already has more than its fair share of nimwits


  7. Re: 7 Reasons Why Linux Won't Succeed On The Desktop

    On 28 Sep 2007 08:57:31 GMT
    Moog wrote:

    > Trevor Best illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >
    > > <...>
    > > Netscape is at version 9 now, I remember trying out 8, must be pulling
    > > itself up by its own bootstraps if it's not being developed anymore.

    >
    > Heh. Don't worry Trev. CBF is nutzoid.


    heh, I know, the ol' fossil just won't learn will he?

    Actually I couldn't give a hoot about Nutscrape, I've
    always found it to be a POS, except for version 8, which was actually
    nothing more than Firefox with IETab, at work in Windows I use Firefox
    with IETab, it's easier than Netscrappy's offering.

    Perhaps CBF lives in my dream, where Nutscrape actually got the binning
    it deserved :-)

    --
    You can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead.
    Stan Laurel

  8. Re: 7 Reasons Why Linux Won't Succeed On The Desktop

    On 28 Sep 2007 06:24:41 -0700, George Peatty wrote:

    > I picked out about a gig and a half of software I wanted one
    > Sunday morning, clicked apply, went to church, and when I got
    > home it was done.


    Was that the fully patched slrn source then?

    --
    Chris Game

  9. Re: 7 Reasons Why Linux Won't Succeed On The Desktop

    Chris Game wrote:

    > On 28 Sep 2007 06:24:41 -0700, George Peatty wrote:
    >
    >> I picked out about a gig and a half of software I wanted one
    >> Sunday morning, clicked apply, went to church, and when I got
    >> home it was done.

    >
    > Was that the fully patched slrn source then?
    >


    Why don't you take your MS-Advocacy to an appropriate group?
    I know it takes more brains than you and Hadron Quark could possibly muster
    combined on a good day, but just accept that your idiocy is better suited
    to windows groups
    --
    Don't abandon hope: your Tom Mix decoder ring arrives tomorrow


  10. Re: 7 Reasons Why Linux Won't Succeed On The Desktop

    Aaron wrote:
    >>> "It is inarguably accurate to note that, while Linux is a success on the
    >>> server side--Apache on Linux runs more Web sites than Microsoft's ISS,
    >>> though the latter is gaining--the open-source operating system has been
    >>> a dismal failure on the desktop. There are at least seven solid reasons,
    >>> which I'll detail below, why Linux hasn't moved the needle beyond a
    >>> single-digit desktop market share since it hit the scene in 1991, and
    >>> never will..."

    >>
    >> ...

    >
    > I have very little experience with Apple (so I may be wrong) but it
    > seems to be a more unified OS - you get what they have, period!
    >



    You are right. The problem is not unity but what to call it: OS X was
    too pretentious a name, intended to be read as in Latin 'ten', but
    people read it as the name of a letter, 'eks'. So now they write out the
    number: OS 10.4.10, i. e., ten upgrades to 10.4.0.


    > ...
    >




    --
    ++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=== ==+=====+=====+====++
    ||Arnold VICTOR, New York City, i. e., ||
    ||Arnoldo VIKTORO, Nov-jorkurbo, t. e., ||
    ||Remove capital letters from e-mail address for correct address/ ||
    || Forigu majusklajn literojn el e-poŝta adreso por ĝusta adreso ||
    ++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=== ==+=====+=====+====++
    NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, the National Security
    Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice.
    They may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You
    have no recourse or protection.

  11. Re: 7 Reasons Why Linux Won't Succeed On The Desktop

    In article <5m3hv6Fb345nU2@mid.individual.net>, Moog wrote:
    >CBFalconer illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >> who cares? wrote:
    >>>

    >> ... snip ...
    >>>
    >>> About a month ago I was handed a disk with Ubuntu on it. The
    >>> software divided my computer up and installed Linux on one side
    >>> while leaving windows on the other and all I had to do was insert
    >>> the disk and select the automatic installation. I thought that
    >>> was great.
    >>>
    >>> That was not the end of the problems however. If you read all the
    >>> details in message headers, you know that I have sent this message
    >>> from windows. I have a collection of software that came with
    >>> Ubuntu, but I am a creature of habit and want to stick with the
    >>> familiar. I tried to download a Linux version of Netscape 7.2
    >>> because I have been using that version for several years now. I
    >>> have not been able to install it. I keep getting a message about
    >>> a missing library when I try. I'm sure the problem can be solved,
    >>> but I don't care to spend hours learning about technical issues
    >>> when I can simply switch back to windows to use the internet.

    >>
    >> Your problem here is that you are apparently not aware that
    >> Netscape was a version of Mozilla,

    >
    >Hang on. If he wants to run Netscape, then surely that's his choice.
    >Also, netscape is most certainly still available and being developed.
    >
    >To "who cares",
    >
    >If you want to post the installation error you get, this group will
    >attempt to help you get netscape installed.
    >


    I just tried it again and got the following results.

    bluezephyr@OEMSetup:~/Netscape$ dir netscape-i686-pc-linux-gnu-sea.tar.gz
    netscape-installer
    bluezephyr@OEMSetup:~/Netscape$ cd \netscape-installer
    bluezephyr@OEMSetup:~/Netscape/netscape-installer$ dir config.ini
    license.txt netscape-installer-bin xpi installer.ini netscape-installer
    README
    bluezephyr@OEMSetup:~/Netscape/netscape-installer$ sudo ./netscape-installer
    ./netscape-installer-bin: error while loading shared libraries:
    libgtk-1.2.so.0:
    cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
    bluezephyr@OEMSetup:~/Netscape/netscape-installer$

    I would like to know if there are places to go fetch things like
    "libgtk-1.2.so.0", and what do I have to do to make Linux recognize and use
    this after I get it?

    To "CBFalconer", I am aware of the history of Netscape. I have been using it
    since version 1. I want to use 7.2 because it has features that suit me.
    I have tried version 9 and gone back to 7.2. Version 9 has no new features
    that interest me, and it has some characteristics that irritate me. I have no
    need to stay anywhere near the leading edge. I am not pretending to be high
    tech, I just use a computer as an appliance.


  12. Re: 7 Reasons Why Linux Won't Succeed On The Desktop

    On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 06:24:41 -0700, George Peatty wrote:

    > In article , who cares? says...
    >
    > [snip]
    >
    >>With windows I install software as a simple point and click operation.
    >>Linux needs to be so simple that software can be installed by plumbers,
    >>house wives, truck drivers, school children, grandparents, salesmen,
    >>etc. When Linux gets to that simple a level of operation, windows will
    >>fade.

    >
    >
    > A thoughtful and perceptive essay, sir. I disagree only here. It is
    > already this easy to install software in Linux. Synaptic has removed
    > the frustration of dependency hell (most of it, anyway), and while
    > Synaptic can be daunting for a newcomer to use, the Adept updater that
    > comes with Kubuntu most certainly is not. It is graphical (icons show
    > you pictures of what you're installing), written in everyday language,
    > and as simple as ticking a checkbox. If you have a broadband
    > connection, Linux is the world's software candy store. I picked out
    > about a gig and a half of software I wanted one Sunday morning, clicked
    > apply, went to church, and when I got home it was done. Sure can't do
    > that in Windows ..


    I think you are made blind to a specific problem by your knowledge of
    Linux. My guess is that you have been using Linux for a while and the
    current version is much simpler and more intuitive than earlier versions
    that you have been accustomed to. So using it seems ultra-easy to you.
    Linux is NOT as simple as windows for the unskilled.

    I have a copy of Netscape 7.2 on my hard drive. It was taken from
    Netscape.com so I assume it is a usable copy that was put together by
    competent people. The package expanded (untarred?) into a directory with
    three or four files and sub-directories. That is as far as I could go
    with it.

    I have run Synaptic several times. It does not do a thing with Netscape.
    Netscape is not listed anywhere in the files Synaptic displays. I have
    found no facility within Synaptic that can search the system and locate
    the Netscape files that I downloaded. Synaptic is great if I want to
    install any of the 1800 or so packages that it lists, but I seem to be
    screwed since I want to use a software that didn't make the list.

    Somebody advised me to use Sudo. That didn't work for me either. Sudo is
    absolutely not intuitive. The problem I had is detailed in another post
    so I won't waste time with that, but these problems prevent people from
    migrating away from windows.

    If you want Linux to go mainstream, then it has to be as SIMPLE as windows
    is. From win95 on, I have never had to think about how to install a
    software. Windows contains an installation program that does it
    automatically. Please note that I am not saying that the windows software
    is superior for any technical reason. All I am saying is that it is
    simple for an unskilled person to start the process and let it run
    automatically. Windows sucks in the reliability department. It has been
    my experience that windows crashes on about one out of twenty software
    installations (and two or three times each month under normal use), but
    the other nineteen installations require nothing of the user.

    I am hoping that Linux will be more reliable than windows. It is
    certainly easier to use than it was five years ago, but I find that it is
    still more difficult to use than windows during the initial setup.

    If Linux is to be used by the masses, it needs software installation for
    the brain dead.

    My suggestion to the good people who are developing Ubuntu would be that
    they pick an extension for install packages. Then publish specs for that
    type of file. People who are providing software can then send a complete
    package that is truly point and click. Some utility would open the file,
    unpack it, create the directories, and do all the rest of the chores
    involved in an install. The utility could be nothing more than something
    to demand a password for security and then point Symantic at the package
    if that will work.

    My point is that it should all happen without knowledge or understanding
    on the part of the user. As long as user knowledge is required to install
    anything, Linux will remain an operating system used by tech types but
    ignored by the general public.

    If the goal is to convert people from windows to Linux, it does not matter
    how easy Linux is for the people who are skilled in its use. What matters
    is how easy Linux appears to be when a windows user tries to make it do
    something useful for the first time.


  13. Re: (OT) Troll Alert

    Roger Merriman illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:

    >> <...>
    >> Want to play games?
    >> Buy a fcuking console.

    >
    > if you like the games that console's do well yes, if not console's a
    > poor choice.


    Comsoles all have their unique sets of games too. I still think that
    you're better off with a Wii, X-box, PS3, PSP or whatever over trying
    to run windows games that aren't particularly impressive when
    coompared to the current console games anyway.

    --
    Moog

    "Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the
    leather straps."

  14. Re: 7 Reasons Why Linux Won't Succeed On The Desktop

    who cares? illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:

    >> <....>
    >>If you want to post the installation error you get, this group will
    >>attempt to help you get netscape installed.
    >>

    >
    > I just tried it again and got the following results.
    >
    > bluezephyr@OEMSetup:~/Netscape$ dir netscape-i686-pc-linux-gnu-sea.tar.gz
    > netscape-installer
    > bluezephyr@OEMSetup:~/Netscape$ cd \netscape-installer
    > bluezephyr@OEMSetup:~/Netscape/netscape-installer$ dir config.ini
    > license.txt netscape-installer-bin xpi installer.ini netscape-installer
    > README
    > bluezephyr@OEMSetup:~/Netscape/netscape-installer$ sudo ./netscape-installer
    > ./netscape-installer-bin: error while loading shared libraries:
    > libgtk-1.2.so.0:
    > cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
    > bluezephyr@OEMSetup:~/Netscape/netscape-installer$
    >
    > I would like to know if there are places to go fetch things like
    > "libgtk-1.2.so.0", and what do I have to do to make Linux recognize and use
    > this after I get it?


    Interesting.

    You could try installing it from a terminal

    $ sudo apt-get install libgtk1.2

    This should do the trick. If not, let us know.

    --
    Moog

    "Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the
    leather straps."

  15. Re: 7 Reasons Why Linux Won't Succeed On The Desktop

    Trevor Best illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    > On 28 Sep 2007 08:57:31 GMT
    > Moog wrote:
    >
    >> Trevor Best illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >>
    >> > <...>
    >> > Netscape is at version 9 now, I remember trying out 8, must be pulling
    >> > itself up by its own bootstraps if it's not being developed anymore.

    >>
    >> Heh. Don't worry Trev. CBF is nutzoid.

    >
    > heh, I know, the ol' fossil just won't learn will he?


    Quite. He's firmly set in his ways. In fact, his ways are similar to a
    mafia style concrete overcoat and he's rapidly sinking with them.

    > Actually I couldn't give a hoot about Nutscrape,


    Me neither. I think it's an utter bag of cack. But we cannot deny the
    right of someone who wants to run it

    > I've always found it to be a POS, except for version 8, which was actually
    > nothing more than Firefox with IETab, at work in Windows I use Firefox
    > with IETab, it's easier than Netscrappy's offering.


    Heh. IE Tab. Now there's a blast from the past. I think Firefox's
    popularity has reduced the need for that. I can't remember the last
    website I visited that required IE.

    > Perhaps CBF lives in my dream, where Nutscrape actually got the binning
    > it deserved :-)


    Heh.

    --
    Moog

    "Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the
    leather straps."

  16. Re: 7 Reasons Why Linux Won't Succeed On The Desktop

    Hadron illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:

    > <....>
    > It would appear that people in other groups are as pissed off with this
    > guy. He seems to think he's some sort of Linux and C guru. He is even
    > reminding people to snip signatures in other groups.


    Really? That doesn't sound like CBF at all. ;-)

    --
    Moog

    "Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the
    leather straps."

  17. Re: 7 Reasons Why Linux Won't Succeed On The Desktop

    In article <5m6atfFb9gfjU1@mid.individual.net>, Moog wrote:
    >who cares? illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >
    >>> <....>
    >>>If you want to post the installation error you get, this group will
    >>>attempt to help you get netscape installed.
    >>>

    >>
    >> I just tried it again and got the following results.
    >>
    >> bluezephyr@OEMSetup:~/Netscape$ dir netscape-i686-pc-linux-gnu-sea.tar.gz
    >> netscape-installer
    >> bluezephyr@OEMSetup:~/Netscape$ cd \netscape-installer
    >> bluezephyr@OEMSetup:~/Netscape/netscape-installer$ dir config.ini
    >> license.txt netscape-installer-bin xpi installer.ini netscape-installer
    >> README
    >> bluezephyr@OEMSetup:~/Netscape/netscape-installer$ sudo ./netscape-installer
    >> ./netscape-installer-bin: error while loading shared libraries:
    >> libgtk-1.2.so.0:
    >> cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
    >> bluezephyr@OEMSetup:~/Netscape/netscape-installer$
    >>
    >> I would like to know if there are places to go fetch things like
    >> "libgtk-1.2.so.0", and what do I have to do to make Linux recognize and use
    >> this after I get it?

    >
    >Interesting.
    >
    >You could try installing it from a terminal
    >
    >$ sudo apt-get install libgtk1.2
    >
    >This should do the trick. If not, let us know.
    >


    Thanks for the reply, but there is something I still don't understand. Where
    do I get this libgtk1.2 so that I can install it. Is there a server somewhere
    that supplies such things to LInux users? Or is there a stash of potentially
    useful items somewhere on the hard drive of an Ubuntu installation?


  18. Re: 7 Reasons Why Linux Won't Succeed On The Desktop

    who cares? illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    > In article <5m6atfFb9gfjU1@mid.individual.net>, Moog wrote:
    >>who cares? illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >>
    >>>> <....>
    >>> I would like to know if there are places to go fetch things like
    >>> "libgtk-1.2.so.0", and what do I have to do to make Linux recognize and use
    >>> this after I get it?

    >>
    >>Interesting.
    >>
    >>You could try installing it from a terminal
    >>
    >>$ sudo apt-get install libgtk1.2
    >>
    >>This should do the trick. If not, let us know.
    >>

    >
    > Thanks for the reply, but there is something I still don't understand. Where
    > do I get this libgtk1.2 so that I can install it. Is there a server somewhere
    > that supplies such things to LInux users? Or is there a stash of potentially
    > useful items somewhere on the hard drive of an Ubuntu installation?


    Aaah. OK. You don't understand the concept of repositories?

    Read up about them..
    https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu

    The libgtk file you are missing is in the repositories. You just have
    to tell your local system to go get it, then install it using the
    command I've already given you.

    To open a terminal, in your upper Gnome menu bar, go to
    Applications -> Accesories -> Terminal

    --
    Moog

    "Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the
    leather straps."

  19. Re: (OT) Troll Alert

    On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 05:40:12 +0000, Moog wrote:

    > Roger Merriman illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >
    >>> <...>
    >>> Want to play games?
    >>> Buy a fcuking console.

    >>
    >> if you like the games that console's do well yes, if not console's a
    >> poor choice.

    >
    > Comsoles all have their unique sets of games too. I still think that
    > you're better off with a Wii, X-box, PS3, PSP or whatever over trying
    > to run windows games that aren't particularly impressive when
    > coompared to the current console games anyway.


    There is a school of thought that once one has frozen-bubble**, one will
    never need another game :-)

    ** The man page says that it is widely believed to have delayed the Sarge
    release :-)

  20. Re: 7 Reasons Why Linux Won't Succeed On The Desktop

    On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 08:03:55 +0000, who cares? wrote:

    >>You could try installing it from a terminal
    >>
    >>$ sudo apt-get install libgtk1.2
    >>
    >>This should do the trick. If not, let us know.
    >>

    > Thanks for the reply, but there is something I still don't understand. Where
    > do I get this libgtk1.2 so that I can install it. Is there a server somewhere
    > that supplies such things to LInux users? Or is there a stash of potentially
    > useful items somewhere on the hard drive of an Ubuntu installation?


    Those are all good guesses, but the correct answer is that it's magic.

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