Req info on ubuntu friendly new laptops without microsoft tax - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on Req info on ubuntu friendly new laptops without microsoft tax - Ubuntu ; Assuming that I really don't want to buy a Dell, are there any *new* laptops that one can get without a windows system (and paying for the windows system)? One that ubuntu/linux is or can be installed on? I talked ...

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Thread: Req info on ubuntu friendly new laptops without microsoft tax

  1. Req info on ubuntu friendly new laptops without microsoft tax

    Assuming that I really don't want to buy a Dell, are there any
    *new* laptops that one can get without a windows system (and
    paying for the windows system)? One that ubuntu/linux is or can
    be installed on?

    I talked to Toshiba, and they said no.
    --
    It will be interesting to see how long the meek keep the earth
    after they inherit it.

  2. Re: Req info on ubuntu friendly new laptops without microsoft tax

    Rick Blackthorn illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    > Assuming that I really don't want to buy a Dell, are there any
    > *new* laptops that one can get without a windows system (and
    > paying for the windows system)? One that ubuntu/linux is or can
    > be installed on?
    >
    > I talked to Toshiba, and they said no.


    I've installed on numerous laptops including a Toshiba, Sony, Dell and
    HP. My Alienware
    is the first that the hardware works *fully* on though.

    Why not check out
    http://www.linux-laptop.net/

    I'd suggest contacting HP though. They seem to be more linux savvy
    than most other manufacturers.

    --
    Moog

    "Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the
    leather straps."

  3. Re: Req info on ubuntu friendly new laptops without microsoft tax

    Rick Blackthorn schreef:
    > Assuming that I really don't want to buy a Dell, are there any
    > *new* laptops that one can get without a windows system (and
    > paying for the windows system)? One that ubuntu/linux is or can
    > be installed on?
    >
    > I talked to Toshiba, and they said no.


    Here in The Netherlands HP and MS have a pay-back agreement.
    When you don't like what you just bought you can, with some trouble,
    return the MS license.
    The HP/OEM Vista license runs around 52 euro, a bit less than buying it
    as a separate 'solution' at around 300 euro.

  4. Re: Req info on ubuntu friendly new laptops without microsoft tax

    I'll see what HP says. Alienware says no.

    Remember I'm talking about new laptops that don't come bundled
    with windows.

    Rick

    Moog wrote:

    >Rick Blackthorn illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >> Assuming that I really don't want to buy a Dell, are there any
    >> *new* laptops that one can get without a windows system (and
    >> paying for the windows system)? One that ubuntu/linux is or can
    >> be installed on?
    >>
    >> I talked to Toshiba, and they said no.

    >
    >I've installed on numerous laptops including a Toshiba, Sony, Dell and
    >HP. My Alienware
    >is the first that the hardware works *fully* on though.
    >
    >Why not check out
    >http://www.linux-laptop.net/
    >
    >I'd suggest contacting HP though. They seem to be more linux savvy
    >than most other manufacturers.

    --
    Critical thinking is required except in religion and politics where it is prohibited. - Vernon Schryver

  5. Re: Req info on ubuntu friendly new laptops without microsoft tax

    Rick Blackthorn illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    > I'll see what HP says. Alienware says no.
    >
    > Remember I'm talking about new laptops that don't come bundled
    > with windows.
    >
    > Rick


    I understood the question, I kust think you're limiting yourself.

    If you check out soem of the UK sites like
    www.linuxemporium.net
    They supply Ubuntu on Lenovo Thinkpads, but you can get a windows version
    cheaper. No real gain there then.

    The Alienware Area51 series works well "for me". I wasn't suggesting
    you go the same way though.

    IMHO, unless you go Dell, you are going to pay more to get linux
    pre-installed. I may be wrong though.

    --
    Moog

    "Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the
    leather straps."

  6. Re: Req info on ubuntu friendly new laptops without microsoft tax

    On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:31:22 -0500, Rick Blackthorn wrote:

    > Assuming that I really don't want to buy a Dell, are there any
    > *new* laptops that one can get without a windows system (and
    > paying for the windows system)? One that ubuntu/linux is or can
    > be installed on?
    >
    > I talked to Toshiba, and they said no.


    Lenovo is in the 'talking' stage. I've checked in the past and it seems
    resellers who install Linux generally get a sizeable premium. A year and a
    half ago, I bought a used Gateway online with no OS installed - should be
    able to find a source with a simple web search. It turned out to be a
    pretty good deal.


  7. Re: Req info on ubuntu friendly new laptops without microsoft tax

    Rick Blackthorn wrote:

    > Assuming that I really don't want to buy a Dell, are there any
    > *new* laptops that one can get without a windows system (and
    > paying for the windows system)? One that ubuntu/linux is or can
    > be installed on?
    >
    > I talked to Toshiba, and they said no.


    Take a look at System 76. They've been loading Ubuntu on their
    laptops/systems for some time now. Probably the first to do so.

    http://www.system76.com/?gclid=CLn65...FQVIYQod1lammw

    Cheers.

    --

    Proprietary Software: a 20th Century software business model.
    Intelligent and helpful Windoze error messages: http://tinyurl.com/2ks5dz






  8. Re: Req info on ubuntu friendly new laptops without microsoft tax

    NoStop wrote:

    >Take a look at System 76. They've been loading Ubuntu on their
    >laptops/systems for some time now. Probably the first to do so.
    >
    >http://www.system76.com/?gclid=CLn65...FQVIYQod1lammw


    These look really good. Do you have one? Any problems?

    --
    Critical thinking is required except in religion and politics where it is prohibited. - Vernon Schryver

  9. Re: Req info on ubuntu friendly new laptops without microsoft tax

    Rick Blackthorn wrote:
    > Assuming that I really don't want to buy a Dell, are there any
    > *new* laptops that one can get without a windows system (and
    > paying for the windows system)? One that ubuntu/linux is or can
    > be installed on?
    >
    > I talked to Toshiba, and they said no.

    Save 64 here with no OS installed
    http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/n...a.html?NNB-537
    340 inc VAT if you are UK based.
    --
    Regards,
    Cushie
    Linux user 451873.



  10. Re: Req info on ubuntu friendly new laptops without microsoft tax

    Rick Blackthorn wrote:
    Subject: without microsoft tax

    Separate from the business about LTs with Ub or other linux distros
    instead of Win, the concept of the MS tax is generally a myth from one
    perspective, namely the bottom line.

    Even tho' the OEMs have to pay MS for the piddily type of license which
    you get when you buy a computer with Vista home installed (no Vista
    disk), pound for pound when you shop you will find that buying a LT with
    Vista installed along with all kinds of other ware which you don't want
    or need, it is cheaper to buy the Vista installed LT than the same
    equipment with a linux distro.

    Apparently that is because of various deals and kickbacks which allow
    the mfr/s to sell the Vista LT cheaper than the linux LT.

    So, if you want the best/cheapest deal, you buy the best deal and just
    make sure that the hardware is compatible with the linux distro. But in
    terms of the bottom line, there isn't a MS 'tax' in the form of paying
    more to get Vista (whether you want it or not) than it is to buy a linux
    distro LT.

    You /can/ sometimes find linux distro desktops as cheap as Vista
    desktops, but not LTs.


    --
    Mike Easter


  11. Re: Req info on ubuntu friendly new laptops without microsoft tax

    Mike Easter wrote:
    >
    > Separate from the business about LTs with Ub or other linux distros
    > instead of Win, the concept of the MS tax is generally a myth from one
    > perspective, namely the bottom line.
    >
    > Even tho' the OEMs have to pay MS for the piddily type of license which
    > you get when you buy a computer with Vista home installed (no Vista
    > disk), pound for pound when you shop you will find that buying a LT with
    > Vista installed along with all kinds of other ware which you don't want
    > or need, it is cheaper to buy the Vista installed LT than the same
    > equipment with a linux distro.
    >
    > Apparently that is because of various deals and kickbacks which allow
    > the mfr/s to sell the Vista LT cheaper than the linux LT.


    The additional revenue comes from all the extra software that the
    manufacturer is paid to bundle with the machine, usually "trialware" for
    all kinds of nonsense that only a Windows machine would need
    (anti-virus, anti-spyware) or a Windows user would want (AOL). It more
    than offsets the cost of the Windows license.

    Buying a no-OS or other-OS machine *does* deprive Microsoft of the
    revenue from the sale of the license, but it is a pittance. However, if
    the manufacturers aren't made aware of the market for non-Microsoft
    based machines -- i.e. people choosing to purchase a machine without
    Windows -- they will be less inclined to offer no-OS or other-OS
    alternatives. If you buy a Windows machine, the manufacturers won't know
    you didn't want Windows.

    --
    Mark Warner
    SimplyMEPIS Linux v6.5
    Registered Linux User #415318
    ....lose .inhibitions when replying

  12. Re: Req info on ubuntu friendly new laptops without microsoft tax

    Rick Blackthorn wrote:

    > NoStop wrote:
    >
    >>Take a look at System 76. They've been loading Ubuntu on their
    >>laptops/systems for some time now. Probably the first to do so.
    >>
    >>http://www.system76.com/?gclid=CLn65...FQVIYQod1lammw

    >
    > These look really good. Do you have one? Any problems?
    >

    I do not have one, but System 76 has built a pretty solid reputation in the
    Ubuntu Community. You might want to ask in the Ubuntu Forums.

    Cheers.

    --

    Proprietary Software: a 20th Century software business model.
    Intelligent and helpful Windoze error messages: http://tinyurl.com/2ks5dz






  13. Re: Req info on ubuntu friendly new laptops without microsoft tax

    On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:31:22 -0500, Rick Blackthorn wrote:

    > Assuming that I really don't want to buy a Dell, are there any *new*
    > laptops that one can get without a windows system (and paying for the
    > windows system)? One that ubuntu/linux is or can be installed on?
    >
    > I talked to Toshiba, and they said no.


    HP lists these Laptops with Freedos, however I don't see how you order
    one, you might have to call them.

    http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/
    WF04a/321957-321957-64295-321838-3329741.html?jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN

  14. Re: Req info on ubuntu friendly new laptops without microsoft tax

    On 12 Sep 2007 21:40:18 GMT
    Moog wrote:

    > Rick Blackthorn illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    > > I'll see what HP says. Alienware says no.
    > >
    > > Remember I'm talking about new laptops that don't come bundled
    > > with windows.
    > >
    > > Rick

    >
    > I understood the question, I kust think you're limiting yourself.


    It's annoying anyway even if you don't run Linux. At work we have our
    own XP (and Vista bleugh) licenses and in most cases re-install our own
    wiping out the pre-installed one. So in effect, we pay for Windows
    twice on a laptop.

    --
    People say I'm violent.
    Tell 'em it aint true or I'll kick yer teeth in!

  15. Re: Req info on ubuntu friendly new laptops without microsoft tax

    On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:40:50 -0400, Mark Warner wrote:

    > Buying a no-OS or other-OS machine *does* deprive Microsoft of the
    > revenue from the sale of the license, but it is a pittance.


    Not true. MS does bulk deals with OEMs. They make agreements for how
    much a manufacturer pays to be able to install MS software for a year or
    two at a time.

    It makes no difference to MS whether your machine comes with Windows or
    not. They only care about how much the manufacturer pays to be able to
    install it if they want.

  16. Re: Req info on ubuntu friendly new laptops without microsoft tax

    Mike Easter wrote:

    .....
    > Instead of paying a penalty or a 'linux distro tax' to buy a non-Vista
    > machine, maybe one should /not/ pay the linux distro tax and write a
    > letter or something.
    >

    You misunderstood. It is no "linux tax" ... but actually a tax for omitting
    the installs of various trial- and spyware.
    As a company, we as well wipe all preinstalled laptops clean before we
    install our own XP.

    > Manufacturers are most acutely aware of the bottom line of sale price
    > and how it affects consumer decisions. That is how it works.
    >

    Well, let's say you have to pay someone to get rid of all the junk that
    comes with a preinstalled windows system, and keep windows working. _That_
    is the real tax.

    > I can't see the logic in paying a linux distro tax to pretend to prove
    > something when the only thing that proves anything is a combination of
    > the bottom line and the total sales. Perhaps you think I should pay
    > some dollars more to make an invisible gesture, while the only thing
    > that matters to the manufacturer is measured in millions.
    >

    Yes, one can eat the cake (preinstalled windows + spy/ad/trialware to pay
    for the windows tax) and silently wipe it, installing linux. Or wipe vista
    bloatware and install xp or even win2k clean. But then, it requires a bit
    of knowledge and driver/inf hunting, and Joe Average won't have the courage
    to do that. In particular when there is the threat of "no support anymore"
    from the vendor, and you have to reinstate the original install before
    sending in your lap for warranty repair. Which might, at that state, become
    impossible anyways.
    --
    vista policy violation: Microsoft optical mouse found penguin patterns
    on mousepad. Partition scan in progress to remove offending
    incompatible products. Reactivate MS software.
    Linux 2.6.17mm,Xorg7.2/nvidia [LinuxCounter#295241,ICQ#4918962]

  17. Re: Req info on ubuntu friendly new laptops without microsoft tax

    "Trevor Best" illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:

    > On 12 Sep 2007 21:40:18 GMT
    > Moog wrote:
    >
    > > Rick Blackthorn illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    > > > I'll see what HP says. Alienware says no.
    > > >
    > > > Remember I'm talking about new laptops that don't come bundled
    > > > with windows.
    > > >
    > > > Rick

    > >
    > > I understood the question, I kust think you're limiting yourself.

    >
    > It's annoying anyway even if you don't run Linux. At work we have our
    > own XP (and Vista bleugh) licenses and in most cases re-install our
    > own wiping out the pre-installed one. So in effect, we pay for
    > Windows twice on a laptop.


    Hmmmm. Which companies do you buy your kit from? They'd be the first
    port of call. I would anticipated that they'd just give you the licence
    anyway as this will keep their MS quota up.

    --
    Moog

    "Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the
    leather straps."

  18. Re: Req info on ubuntu friendly new laptops without microsoft tax

    Mark South wrote:
    > Mark Warner wrote:
    >>
    >> Buying a no-OS or other-OS machine *does* deprive Microsoft of the
    >> revenue from the sale of the license, but it is a pittance.

    >
    > Not true. MS does bulk deals with OEMs. They make agreements for how
    > much a manufacturer pays to be able to install MS software for a year or
    > two at a time.
    >
    > It makes no difference to MS whether your machine comes with Windows or
    > not. They only care about how much the manufacturer pays to be able to
    > install it if they want.


    There was a time pre-antitrust-settlement when Microsoft required
    payment for every computer sold, whether Windows was actually installed
    or not. That is no longer the case.

    I have always been of the understanding that the manufacturer bought a
    quantity of licenses at a negotiated price. If I understand you
    correctly, you're saying that Microsoft doesn't care how many licenses
    are sold by the manufacturer during a given period of time?

    Methinks that the price of a quantity of licenses is negotiated, and
    that price is good for a certain period of time. There still is a fixed
    unit cost for the license.

    BICBW.

    --
    Mark Warner
    SimplyMEPIS Linux v6.5
    Registered Linux User #415318
    ....lose .inhibitions when replying

  19. Re: Req info on ubuntu friendly new laptops without microsoft tax

    On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:20:10 +0100
    Moog wrote:

    > "Trevor Best" illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >
    > > On 12 Sep 2007 21:40:18 GMT
    > > Moog wrote:
    > >
    > > > Rick Blackthorn illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    > > > > I'll see what HP says. Alienware says no.
    > > > >
    > > > > Remember I'm talking about new laptops that don't come bundled
    > > > > with windows.
    > > > >
    > > > > Rick
    > > >
    > > > I understood the question, I kust think you're limiting yourself.

    > >
    > > It's annoying anyway even if you don't run Linux. At work we have our
    > > own XP (and Vista bleugh) licenses and in most cases re-install our
    > > own wiping out the pre-installed one. So in effect, we pay for
    > > Windows twice on a laptop.

    >
    > Hmmmm. Which companies do you buy your kit from? They'd be the first
    > port of call. I would anticipated that they'd just give you the licence
    > anyway as this will keep their MS quota up.


    I usually try to stick to HP for laptops although they've been bought
    via pissy world (pcwb) or dabs, a couple of idiots in our company had a
    free reign (i.e. bypassed me as system administrator) and bought an
    Acer POS (now *when* (not if) they have problems do I ever give them
    stick hehe).

    --
    People say I'm violent.
    Tell 'em it aint true or I'll kick yer teeth in!

  20. Re: Req info on ubuntu friendly new laptops without microsoft tax

    On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 23:28:29 +0100
    Cushie wrote:

    > > I talked to Toshiba, and they said no.

    > Save £64 here with no OS installed
    > http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/n...a.html?NNB-537
    > £340 inc VAT if you are UK based.


    Now there's a thing, choice. Most laptops I see come with Hobson's
    choice.

    --
    People say I'm violent.
    Tell 'em it aint true or I'll kick yer teeth in!

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