NNTP/Usenet Infrastructure / software question? - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on NNTP/Usenet Infrastructure / software question? - Ubuntu ; John F. Morse wrote: > Web servers use HTTP, and the corresponding user client is called a Web > "browser." (Firefox/Iceweasel, Mozilla, IE, Opera, etc.) > > Netnews (USENET) uses NNTP, and e-mail uses SMTP, POP3, IMAP, etc. > Someone ...

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Thread: NNTP/Usenet Infrastructure / software question?

  1. Re: NNTP/Usenet Infrastructure / software question?

    John F. Morse wrote:
    > Web servers use HTTP, and the corresponding user client is called a Web
    > "browser." (Firefox/Iceweasel, Mozilla, IE, Opera, etc.)
    >
    > Netnews (USENET) uses NNTP, and e-mail uses SMTP, POP3, IMAP, etc.
    > Someone tying NNTP into a Web interface (server) ends the NNTP and
    > starts the HTTP.


    aye...im fully aware of the protocol differences and the like. it was
    merely a statement that one may use any number of clients, even web based,
    to accomplish ones goal.

    > You and I are here. We understand these things, but the people reading
    > this group, "us," are but a tiny minority of all computer users. Most of
    > those don't know the Web is not the same as the Internet, nor that both
    > words are proper nouns and should be capitalized.


    we must also remember that, and in no disrespect to any aol users which
    may be here, that many users on the aol service seem to think that aol is
    the internet. aol catered to a very specific audience, and did so with
    great success. unfortunately, however, they brought with them a great deal
    of headaches for the rest of the internet population.

    obviously, as you have seen, i dont captilize anything for the most part in
    my communications. unless im at work where writing proper is required, i
    normally only do so for acronyms or if i really do mean to YELL. :P

    i grew up on irc and usenet for the most part, where the general consensus
    was all lower case. at least i still use punctuation even if it is
    incorrect most of the time...and i just graduated from a college english
    class not to long ago...go figure lol.

    > You'll need to think outside of our forest to see just how few our trees
    > are. ;-)


    that does trap me most of the time. :P

    > Don't know if I stated it that way or not, so let's just agree that a
    > certain method might be the only way for my personal preferences. I'm
    > not stuck on any methods as I use many, but I do have my preferences for
    > certain tasks.
    >
    > For instance, I do check one ISP mailbox using a browser because their
    > Webmail interface has an easy method to delete spam they have trapped.
    > Other ISP and local mail server accounts are downloaded with a "real"
    > mail client (usually Thunderbird), as well as the one mentioned if there
    > is a valid message in the mailbox.
    >
    >


    i know all about being set in ones ways. im hard headed myself, as im sure
    you can tell.

    p.s.
    apologies in the case this doesnt come across looking correctly. i just
    finished installing pan and ran through a quick setup so i can start
    reading/posting right away. hopefully the formatting is correct. my quoted
    text isnt colored like im used to, so i cant easily spot the errors.

    --
    kim <3
    http://www.thezengarden.net/blog

  2. Re: NNTP/Usenet Infrastructure / software question?

    Kimbelyn wrote:
    >

    .... snip ...
    >
    > apologies in the case this doesnt come across looking correctly. i just
    > finished installing pan and ran through a quick setup so i can start
    > reading/posting right away. hopefully the formatting is correct. my quoted
    > text isnt colored like im used to, so i cant easily spot the errors.


    The only problem I see is that your lines are slightly overlength.
    Limiting to 72 chars (but 67 is better) is helpful.

    --
    Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.



    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  3. Re: NNTP/Usenet Infrastructure / software question?

    CBFalconer illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    > Kimbelyn wrote:
    >>

    > ... snip ...
    >>
    >> apologies in the case this doesnt come across looking correctly. i just
    >> finished installing pan and ran through a quick setup so i can start
    >> reading/posting right away. hopefully the formatting is correct. my quoted
    >> text isnt colored like im used to, so i cant easily spot the errors.

    >
    > The only problem I see is that your lines are slightly overlength.
    > Limiting to 72 chars (but 67 is better) is helpful.
    >
    > --
    > Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
    > Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
    >


    Oh lordy. Mr Double Sig is back giving usenet advice.

    Put your own house in order first, dude.

    --
    Moog

    "Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the
    leather straps."

  4. Re: NNTP/Usenet Infrastructure / software question?

    CBFalconer wrote:
    > The only problem I see is that your lines are slightly overlength.
    > Limiting to 72 chars (but 67 is better) is helpful.


    thanks for the heads up. i thought pan had a bit more control, but i cant
    seem to find the controls for this. might have to switch over to knode as
    i have used that more in the past and am more familiar with it. oh well,
    anyways... lol :P

    --
    kim <3
    http://www.thezengarden.net/blog

  5. Re: NNTP/Usenet Infrastructure / software question?

    On 2007-09-14, Kimbelyn intrigued me by typing:
    > CBFalconer wrote:
    >> The only problem I see is that your lines are slightly overlength.
    >> Limiting to 72 chars (but 67 is better) is helpful.

    >
    > thanks for the heads up. i thought pan had a bit more control, but i cant
    > seem to find the controls for this. might have to switch over to knode as
    > i have used that more in the past and am more familiar with it. oh well,
    > anyways... lol :P
    >


    Pan does allow for you to control character length as well as other
    customizations. Check the preference section and other sections withinthe
    application. I've done it so I know it works. Currently, I am using SLRN
    and cannot remember the exact steps to take in Pan. Take care.
    --
    Just me, D
    (Ubuntu User# 16887)

  6. Re: NNTP/Usenet Infrastructure / software question?

    Doug Jamal wrote:
    > Pan does allow for you to control character length as well as other
    > customizations. Check the preference section and other sections withinthe
    > application. I've done it so I know it works. Currently, I am using SLRN
    > and cannot remember the exact steps to take in Pan. Take care.


    i clicked on every button/tab i could find last night. i saw nothing
    about formatting. will check again when i get home. thanks!

    --
    kim <3
    http://www.thezengarden.net/blog

  7. Re: NNTP/Usenet Infrastructure / software question?

    Moog wrote:
    > CBFalconer illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >> Kimbelyn wrote:
    >>>

    >> ... snip ...
    >>>
    >>> apologies in the case this doesnt come across looking correctly. i just
    >>> finished installing pan and ran through a quick setup so i can start
    >>> reading/posting right away. hopefully the formatting is correct. my quoted
    >>> text isnt colored like im used to, so i cant easily spot the errors.

    >>
    >> The only problem I see is that your lines are slightly overlength.
    >> Limiting to 72 chars (but 67 is better) is helpful.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
    >> Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
    >>

    >
    > Oh lordy. Mr Double Sig is back giving usenet advice.
    >
    > Put your own house in order first, dude.


    My opinion of your intelligence is dropping precipitously. I have
    left everything you quoted. Notice the inclusion of immaterial
    lines, the inclusion of signatures, and the failure to realize that
    my messages leave here with exactly one sig. I have no control
    over what the news-server decides to add to it. I suspect you are
    also aware of this, and simply want to rabble-rouse. If not,
    consider yourself advised.

    --
    Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.




    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  8. Re: NNTP/Usenet Infrastructure / software question?

    Moog wrote:
    > Moe Trin illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >

    .... snip ...
    >>
    >> A lot depends on what they want to carry. The "official" Big Eight
    >> groups (comp.*, humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.*,
    >> and talk.*) only totals 2276 groups as of 08/15/2007, though most
    >> news providers carry FAR more than that. The servers I have access
    >> to carry between 31000 and 110000 groups (often used as an
    >> advertising gambit). I don't have any idea what the overall
    >> traffic levels would be like (the 84 groups I try to scan daily
    >> average a total around 60 Megs a month), but that impacts disk
    >> size on the server. On the other hand, one of the ISPs I have
    >> access to is running their own server (I suspect that it's the
    >> owner's son admining a *nix box running leafnode), so it doesn't
    >> have to be complicated.

    >
    > They used newshosting.com IIRC, and obviously transferred what
    > they wanted into news.btinternet.com. I hadn't really looked into
    > it, but some of the groups I subscribed to were only showing half
    > of the article counts that individual was showing. This was a
    > couple of years ago, mind you. I decided to move ISP and use
    > individual with datemas as excellent back up.


    Actually I would prefer news-servers with smaller lists. This
    would reduce the time spent downloading access lists, etc. The
    lists (and groups) could be automated by, say, dropping anything
    with no traffic for a month, and installing anything with new
    traffic.

    --
    Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.




    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  9. Re: NNTP/Usenet Infrastructure / software question?

    * Kimbelyn wrote in alt.os.linux.ubuntu:
    > John F. Morse wrote:
    >> I don't intend to get into an argument with you or anybody about your or
    >> their preferred choices. This is a help group, and not an advocacy
    >> group. Someone asked a question about NNTP software, and I simply stated
    >> my thoughts in a roundabout way that a "browser" is not NNTP software.


    > i didnt mean to come off attacking you, just stating my own opinion in
    > response to your opinion. however, i still have to disagree. a browser
    > can be mail/nntp software as you can use a web based method of
    > interfacing with it; ie: gmail/google groups. these are perfectly valid
    > methods.


    Valid because they perform the task? I can use a cannon to kill a flea,
    that doesn't make it the right tool for the job.

    > this is why we have a server/client software model for such
    > things. one server can serve any number of different clients provided
    > they follow the server's protocol's.


    > ...and i wasnt advocating anything. it appeared (keyword) that you were
    > advocating that method X was the only method, and method Y was invalid.


    In the case of a browser accessing Usenet, it isn't invalid per say, but
    the client was not meant to be used for that purpose, it is called a WEB
    browser for a reason, would you not agree? The fact that Google created
    an interface to make Usenet accessible to those unwilling to learn the
    to use the right tool for the right job does not make it any more valid.

    --
    David
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org/

    Many hands make light work.
    -- John Heywood

  10. Re: NNTP/Usenet Infrastructure / software question?

    SINNER wrote:
    >

    .... snip ...
    >
    > Valid because they perform the task? I can use a cannon to kill
    > a flea, that doesn't make it the right tool for the job.


    I suspect your dog would agree with you. :-)

    --
    Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.



    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  11. Re: NNTP/Usenet Infrastructure / software question?

    On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 16:38:38 -0400, CBFalconer wrote:

    > Moog wrote:
    >> CBFalconer illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >>> Kimbelyn wrote:
    >>>>
    >>> ... snip ...
    >>>>
    >>>> apologies in the case this doesnt come across looking correctly. i
    >>>> just finished installing pan and ran through a quick setup so i can
    >>>> start reading/posting right away. hopefully the formatting is
    >>>> correct. my quoted text isnt colored like im used to, so i cant
    >>>> easily spot the errors.
    >>>
    >>> The only problem I see is that your lines are slightly overlength.
    >>> Limiting to 72 chars (but 67 is better) is helpful.
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
    >>> Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Oh lordy. Mr Double Sig is back giving usenet advice.
    >>
    >> Put your own house in order first, dude.

    >
    > My opinion of your intelligence is dropping precipitously. I have left
    > everything you quoted. Notice the inclusion of immaterial lines, the
    > inclusion of signatures, and the failure to realize that my messages
    > leave here with exactly one sig. I have no control over what the
    > news-server decides to add to it. I suspect you are also aware of this,
    > and simply want to rabble-rouse. If not, consider yourself advised.
    >
    > --
    > Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
    > Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
    >


    You really ARE a friggin' twit, aren't you?

    Generally, newsreaders only automatically strip the last sig in a post.
    Since yours have 2, they get left in (I left it in for the point).

    And you have been told hundreds of times that you CAN get rid of the
    second one, by simply switching to a better newsserver, many of which are
    available for free, just like your garbage account, but do not add a
    second sig to your posts.

    Until you decide to fix your own posts, you'd be best off ignoring other
    folks' issues...




    --
    /home/joe/.signature

  12. Re: NNTP/Usenet Infrastructure / software question?

    On 14 Sep 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in article
    <5kumc8F5hi9cU1@mid.individual.net>, Moog wrote:

    >They used newshosting.com IIRC, and obviously transferred what they
    >wanted into news.btinternet.com. I hadn't really looked into it, but
    >some of the groups I subscribed to were only showing half of the
    >article counts that individual was showing.


    Normally, if they aren't filtering stuff, all posts in a groups
    should show up eventually, they just may take longer as they slosh
    around the world trying to get from A to Everywhere. However it's
    quite obvious that some news admins can't be trusted with a knife made
    of cardboard, and do manage to screw things up beyond belief.

    >This was a couple of years ago, mind you. I decided to move ISP and use
    >individual with datemas as excellent back up.


    Different area, but I have had problems with administrators at bt.

    >> Unusual - The one amateur server aside, the spools I have access to
    >> seem to retain _text_ (I don't do binaries) for a minimum of 3 months.

    >
    >BT was around 30 days (again I'm doing this from memory).
    >I presume this was a setting decided up by one of their admin managers.


    Basically - yes. It's predicated on how much diskspace has been provided
    by the pointy haired Powers That Be, but on a server situation this
    shouldn't be a problem. In 1994, the news server at work had some 36 Gigs
    of disk, and was retaining well over 40 days. Last I looked at the
    box, it was close to 7 TB, but that is still less than what I paid
    for my first hard disk at home in 1984.

    >> Someone in c.o.l.setup mentioned that. I'm not sure why this might be
    >> the case.

    >
    >They give you what you pay for.


    Oh, you mean something like Steerage class on most airlines? ;-)

    >> There _are_ other free news servers. Some are not much better than
    >> google, but you are getting more than you paid for.

    >
    >Quite. Datemas and Motzarella are superb. Aioe has a posting line
    >length limit, but looks OK.


    What mean "posting line length limit"? RFC0822 sets that to 1024
    characters, but most sane newsreaders have something a bit more sensible.
    Slrn screams at me if I try >= 80 characters/line.

    >I've got a quick 5 minutes before setting off for a day of "meetings".
    >One on one side of the UK (the opposite tothe one I live) and the
    >other back on my side.


    Well, unless you're doing Canterbury to Falmouth, it can't be all that
    bad. London/Bristol is under 120 miles/200KM.

    >I doubt I'll be seeing the pub this evening. ;-)


    I thought they got rid of those bizarre opening/closing hours ;-)

    >It's quite strange. I use Gmail, as I find it very good. I do
    >understand that my emails are being mined and that little matching ads
    >appear at the top of the page, but I don't mind it as the junk mail
    >and spam filter routines they employ are tremendous.


    Corporate takes a VERY dim view of using gmail or similar, but
    exceptionally will allow us to use a "regular" ISP in an emergency.
    For the personal mail, my primary ISP gives me 6 free usernames for
    my account, and doesn't charge if I want to replace any/all of them.
    I also have a home-built spam filter so I rarely seem spam as much as
    with my other accounts. I am old fashioned, and expect text mail at
    all times - so a webmail service does nothing for me.

    >Quite. Do you think that *my* personal refusal (as a google client) to
    >use GG has been noticed? I would hope so. But on the other hand would
    >be very surprised if it had.


    No, but talking to your news peer to filter off GG might help.

    Old guy

  13. Re: NNTP/Usenet Infrastructure / software question?

    On Fri, 14 Sep 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in article
    <46EAEFBE.B2DC56A7@yahoo.com>, CBFalconer wrote:

    >> Moe Trin illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:


    >>> A lot depends on what they want to carry. The "official" Big Eight
    >>> groups (comp.*, humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.*,
    >>> and talk.*) only totals 2276 groups as of 08/15/2007, though most
    >>> news providers carry FAR more than that. The servers I have access
    >>> to carry between 31000 and 110000 groups (often used as an
    >>> advertising gambit).


    >Actually I would prefer news-servers with smaller lists. This
    >would reduce the time spent downloading access lists, etc.


    The newsreader setup I'm using can be set to get a list of _additions_
    to the newsgroup list with virtually no effort. I have it set to send
    that data to a .newsrc.new file. I haven't seen any such additions
    since 01 July 2007. I also download a new group list every quarter,
    to catch the deletions.

    >The lists (and groups) could be automated by, say, dropping anything
    >with no traffic for a month, and installing anything with new
    >traffic.


    Well... That gets into some interesting areas of gray. Example, the
    comp.os.linux.xbox group hasn't had much posting - a quick check of
    my logs shows one post in August and one about a week ago. Kill it?
    How about comp.os.linux.answers? comp.os.linux.alpha?

    You may want to scan 'news.announce.newgroups' where changes to the
    "official" big eight groups occur. As for the other groups, like
    alt.* - that's anarchy central, and everything is at the whim of the
    local news admin. Totally.

    Old guy

  14. Re: NNTP/Usenet Infrastructure / software question?

    * CBFalconer wrote in alt.os.linux.ubuntu:
    > SINNER wrote:


    > ... snip ...


    >> Valid because they perform the task? I can use a cannon to kill
    >> a flea, that doesn't make it the right tool for the job.


    > I suspect your dog would agree with you. :-)


    Ya know, I thought about the Mosquito analogy AFTER I hit Y

    But, yes, both of them would agree.

    --
    David
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org/

    There are no threads in a.b.p.erotica, so there's no gain in using a
    threaded news reader.
    (Unknown source)

  15. Re: NNTP/Usenet Infrastructure / software question?

    CBFalconer illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    > Moog wrote:
    >> CBFalconer illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >>> Kimbelyn wrote:
    >>>>
    >>> ... snip ...
    >>>>
    >>>> apologies in the case this doesnt come across looking correctly. i just
    >>>> finished installing pan and ran through a quick setup so i can start
    >>>> reading/posting right away. hopefully the formatting is correct. my quoted
    >>>> text isnt colored like im used to, so i cant easily spot the errors.
    >>>
    >>> The only problem I see is that your lines are slightly overlength.
    >>> Limiting to 72 chars (but 67 is better) is helpful.
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
    >>> Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Oh lordy. Mr Double Sig is back giving usenet advice.
    >>
    >> Put your own house in order first, dude.

    >
    > My opinion of your intelligence is dropping precipitously. I have
    > left everything you quoted. Notice the inclusion of immaterial
    > lines, the inclusion of signatures, and the failure to realize that
    > my messages leave here with exactly one sig. I have no control
    > over what the news-server decides to add to it. I suspect you are
    > also aware of this, and simply want to rabble-rouse. If not,
    > consider yourself advised.
    >
    > --
    > Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
    > Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
    >
    >


    So what you are saying is that I should actively take time to strip
    out your second sig?

    Why the hell would I want to do that? I've got better things to do
    with my time. Do you have to strip *my* sig when you reply to my
    posts? If you did, you'd see how highly annoying it is and how
    totally inconsiderate you are.

    Get it sorted.

    --
    Moog

    "Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the
    leather straps."

  16. Re: NNTP/Usenet Infrastructure / software question?

    Moe Trin illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    > On 14 Sep 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in article
    ><5kumc8F5hi9cU1@mid.individual.net>, Moog wrote:
    >
    >>They used newshosting.com IIRC, and obviously transferred what they
    >>wanted into news.btinternet.com. I hadn't really looked into it, but
    >>some of the groups I subscribed to were only showing half of the
    >>article counts that individual was showing.

    >
    > Normally, if they aren't filtering stuff, all posts in a groups
    > should show up eventually, they just may take longer as they slosh
    > around the world trying to get from A to Everywhere. However it's
    > quite obvious that some news admins can't be trusted with a knife made
    > of cardboard, and do manage to screw things up beyond belief.


    I think this may well have been the case. It wasn't a retention issue,
    as a number of posts would never appear on their servers. Perhaps it
    was an incorrectly setup refresh routine? I'm only guessing here
    though.

    >>This was a couple of years ago, mind you. I decided to move ISP and use
    >>individual with datemas as excellent back up.

    >
    > Different area, but I have had problems with administrators at bt.


    I have a friend who was a BT "troubleshooter". He spent more time
    troubleshooting other ISP's issues than BT's own. He reckoned BT had
    their hands tied due to ofcom and the unbundling of the local loop. I
    do have a certain amount of sympathy for them, as their own issues
    seemed to take a back seat over companies that bought their services
    "wholesale".

    >>> Unusual - The one amateur server aside, the spools I have access to
    >>> seem to retain _text_ (I don't do binaries) for a minimum of 3 months.

    >>
    >>BT was around 30 days (again I'm doing this from memory).
    >>I presume this was a setting decided up by one of their admin managers.

    >
    > Basically - yes. It's predicated on how much diskspace has been provided
    > by the pointy haired Powers That Be, but on a server situation this
    > shouldn't be a problem. In 1994, the news server at work had some 36 Gigs
    > of disk, and was retaining well over 40 days. Last I looked at the
    > box, it was close to 7 TB, but that is still less than what I paid
    > for my first hard disk at home in 1984.


    Crikey. 7TB. I presume this includes binaries too.

    >>> Someone in c.o.l.setup mentioned that. I'm not sure why this might be
    >>> the case.

    >>
    >>They give you what you pay for.

    >
    > Oh, you mean something like Steerage class on most airlines? ;-)


    Heh. Quite.

    >>> There _are_ other free news servers. Some are not much better than
    >>> google, but you are getting more than you paid for.

    >>
    >>Quite. Datemas and Motzarella are superb. Aioe has a posting line
    >>length limit, but looks OK.

    >
    > What mean "posting line length limit"? RFC0822 sets that to 1024
    > characters, but most sane newsreaders have something a bit more sensible.
    > Slrn screams at me if I try >= 80 characters/line.


    Sorry. Forgive me, I used the completely inaccurate term. You are only
    allowed to post a certain number of lines using Aioe. I placed the
    misleading word "length" in there for some reason.
    See below for their posting policies. It describes it better than I
    ever could. ;-)
    http://news.aioe.org/spip.php?article3

    >>I've got a quick 5 minutes before setting off for a day of "meetings".
    >>One on one side of the UK (the opposite tothe one I live) and the
    >>other back on my side.

    >
    > Well, unless you're doing Canterbury to Falmouth, it can't be all that
    > bad. London/Bristol is under 120 miles/200KM.


    Southport to Hull, then Hull to Ellesmere Port, then Ellesmere Port to
    Southport. It was quite a trek (for a brit who likes to work from his
    desk)

    >>I doubt I'll be seeing the pub this evening. ;-)

    >
    > I thought they got rid of those bizarre opening/closing hours ;-)


    They did, but not at my local which still closes at 11:00pm.

    >>It's quite strange. I use Gmail, as I find it very good. I do
    >>understand that my emails are being mined and that little matching ads
    >>appear at the top of the page, but I don't mind it as the junk mail
    >>and spam filter routines they employ are tremendous.

    >
    > Corporate takes a VERY dim view of using gmail or similar, but
    > exceptionally will allow us to use a "regular" ISP in an emergency.
    > For the personal mail, my primary ISP gives me 6 free usernames for
    > my account, and doesn't charge if I want to replace any/all of them.
    > I also have a home-built spam filter so I rarely seem spam as much as
    > with my other accounts. I am old fashioned, and expect text mail at
    > all times - so a webmail service does nothing for me.


    Oh indeed. I would never, ever use Gmail in a corporate environment. I
    would also never use HTML in that environment either. What surprises
    me though, is how many corporates actually *still* use OE. I'm seeing
    (with the blackberry) more exchange usage, but a lot of corporate
    noddydom is still stuck in the "what we get with the OS" philosphy.

    >>Quite. Do you think that *my* personal refusal (as a google client) to
    >>use GG has been noticed? I would hope so. But on the other hand would
    >>be very surprised if it had.

    >
    > No, but talking to your news peer to filter off GG might help.


    Indeed. I doubt Individual would do that though. It seems to be
    against their policy.

    --
    Moog

    "Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the
    leather straps."

  17. Re: NNTP/Usenet Infrastructure / software question?

    On 15 Sep 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in article
    <5l1bp1F6015jU1@mid.individual.net>, Moog wrote:

    >Moe Trin illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:


    >> Different area, but I have had problems with administrators at bt.

    >
    >I have a friend who was a BT "troubleshooter". He spent more time
    >troubleshooting other ISP's issues than BT's own. He reckoned BT had
    >their hands tied due to ofcom and the unbundling of the local loop. I
    >do have a certain amount of sympathy for them, as their own issues
    >seemed to take a back seat over companies that bought their services
    >"wholesale".


    I can agree - but if BT doesn't SWIP the leased-out space, they get
    blamed for whatever happens in it. Most of the problems I've had are
    with their abuse desk (and the lack of results), but I've also had
    problems with their DNS setups.

    >Crikey. 7TB. I presume this includes binaries too.


    Perhaps some, but not the alt.binary.pr0n.* (which would get people
    fired here absolutely INSTANTLY), or games, videos, or music (the
    last two would likely cause excrement storms as well). No, some of
    the security groups are set to 'never expires', and that does add
    up fairly quickly.

    >>> Aioe has a posting line length limit, but looks OK.

    >>
    >> What mean "posting line length limit"? RFC0822 sets that to 1024
    >> characters, but most sane newsreaders have something a bit more
    >> sensible. Slrn screams at me if I try >= 80 characters/line.

    >
    >Sorry. Forgive me, I used the completely inaccurate term. You are only
    >allowed to post a certain number of lines using Aioe. I placed the
    >misleading word "length" in there for some reason.
    >See below for their posting policies. It describes it better than I
    >ever could. ;-)
    >http://news.aioe.org/spip.php?article3


    The only thing I see that violates RFCs is the 2k header limitation
    (and I have NO problem with that) and the body line length of 160
    characters (again, for the most part this is no problem). The
    Content-Type restriction is a so-so, but I agree with their wanting
    the GPG/PGP key included in the body.

    >> Well, unless you're doing Canterbury to Falmouth, it can't be all
    >> that bad. London/Bristol is under 120 miles/200KM.

    >
    >Southport to Hull, then Hull to Ellesmere Port, then Ellesmere Port
    >to Southport. It was quite a trek (for a brit who likes to work from
    >his desk)




    Well, it looks as if you've got motorway most of the trip, what, 270
    miles or so round-trip? 70 MPH on the M62, 60 elsewhere outside of
    town? Could be worse I suppose. It _is_ longer than I like to drive,
    but sometimes you have no choice. (Company policy now - 4 people, half
    day trip, or two people full day trip, eight for a quarter and so on,
    we go by air, commercial if possible, air-taxi for the relatively short
    trips. Nearly all of the places we'd need to go to are convenient to a
    suitable airport. We also have very frequent need to get to another
    facility in this state that is about 185 miles by road, but only 130 by
    air, and no commercial air service - so that's an ideal candidate for
    air-taxi.)

    >> I thought they got rid of those bizarre opening/closing hours ;-)

    >
    >They did, but not at my local which still closes at 11:00pm.


    If you didn't get back by 9-ish, that trip is _way_ to long.

    >Oh indeed. I would never, ever use Gmail in a corporate environment.
    >I would also never use HTML in that environment either. What surprises
    >me though, is how many corporates actually *still* use OE. I'm seeing
    >(with the blackberry) more exchange usage, but a lot of corporate
    >noddydom is still stuck in the "what we get with the OS" philosphy.


    I don't have to worry about the marketeers, but the rest of the
    _company_ doesn't use windoze. You have no idea how nice that can
    be. Even my wife's company has gotten rid of a lot of their windoze
    systems - retaining a few of them only in marketing/sales and a
    limited number of systems in accounting (because the external idiots
    they deal with still demand windoze compatibility).

    >> No, but talking to your news peer to filter off GG might help.

    >
    >Indeed. I doubt Individual would do that though. It seems to be
    >against their policy.


    They aren't a direct peer to google, are they? From here, I can see
    google seems to be peering with giganews, and I suspect they are also
    peering with other major US news providers. I am starting to copy
    abuse.giganews.com when I bitch at google - maybe that can help.

    Old guy

  18. Re: NNTP/Usenet Infrastructure / software question?

    Moog wrote:
    >

    .... snip ...
    >
    > So what you are saying is that I should actively take time to strip
    > out your second sig?
    >
    > Why the hell would I want to do that? I've got better things to do
    > with my time. Do you have to strip *my* sig when you reply to my
    > posts? If you did, you'd see how highly annoying it is and how
    > totally inconsiderate you are.
    >
    > Get it sorted.
    >
    > --
    > Moog
    >
    > "Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the
    > leather straps."


    Here's what your post looks like here. I stripped only the
    quotes. Doesn't take a major effort to strip sigs etc.

    --
    Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.




    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  19. Re: NNTP/Usenet Infrastructure / software question?

    On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 16:38:38 -0400, CBFalconer wrote:

    > and the failure to realize that my messages leave
    > here with exactly one sig. I have no control over what the news-server
    > decides to add to it. I suspect you are also aware of this, and simply
    > want to rabble-rouse. If not, consider yourself advised.


    You must like arguing about your sig. If you put the information in your
    sig into the body, you could critique everybody else's little mistakes, and
    not look like a hypocrite. It doesn't bother me, I just am pointing out,
    as a neutral observer, that your double sig, regardless of the reason why
    it is there, lowers the value of your net-picking. Now as I have
    nothing positive to say, and nothing helpful to add, will say goodbye.

    --
    This is not a sig.

    stonerfish

    --
    Children. Play nice.

  20. Re: NNTP/Usenet Infrastructure / software question?

    On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:20:45 -0500, Moe Trin wrote:

    >>Quite. Datemas and Motzarella are superb. Aioe has a posting line
    >>length limit, but looks OK.

    >
    > What mean "posting line length limit"? RFC0822 sets that to 1024


    I don't know the contents of 822, but that RFC is obsolete. RFC 2822
    states a line length limit of 998 characters, excluding CR/LF.

    --
    Regards, Robert http://www.arumes.com


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