On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 14:16:35 +0200, Hadron
wrote:


>Did anyone here ever try to move from Ubuntu to Debian?

>I am kind of tempted to give it a go now that I feel comfortable with
>Ubuntu. The big issue I have though is whether things will "just work"
>like they do in Ubuntu.

>e.g Will I spend hours trying to get my NVidia video card working again?
>Will my sound break like it was in 6.10? What about UUID/USB management?

>I understand that Debian has a "stability" reputation - but is it
>possible to point it at more "modern" repositories too?

>Any comments gratefully received.

I tried it. It didn't work for me. Highest video resolution Debian would
allow was 800 x 600. It did not offer read-write NTFS support, and I didn't
see any way to get it .. Both of those were deal-breakers for me. I'd love
to try Debian, because it is the core of so many good distros: Knoppix and
Ubuntu to name two. But, I suspect one of the reasons it's so stable is it
takes forever to get problems resolved, so it's always a little behind the
others.

In alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sun, 02 Sep 2007 14:16:35 +0200, Hadron
wrote:

> Did anyone here ever try to move from Ubuntu to Debian?

Not exactly in my case: I used Debian first.

> I am kind of tempted to give it a go now that I feel comfortable with
> Ubuntu. The big issue I have though is whether things will "just work"
> like they do in Ubuntu.

In general, things that "just work" in Ubuntu will "just work" in
Debian. There may be exceptions for some drivers whose licences are
deemed not to comply with the stringent Debian Free Software
Guidelines, and some GUI tools may not be installed by default.

> e.g Will I spend hours trying to get my NVidia video card working again?
> Will my sound break like it was in 6.10? What about UUID/USB management?

It all depends on the specific devices. The best I can suggest is to
try it and see what happens. Debian and Ubuntu will happily sit side
by side on the same disk.

> I understand that Debian has a "stability" reputation - but is it
> possible to point it at more "modern" repositories too?

There are three official repositories for Debian:

1. Stable - the current release. Usually updated only with security
fixes. At present this is probably mostly a little older than Ubuntu
7.04.

2. Testing - working towards the next release. The Testing repository
is updated frequently with software from the Unstable repository
that doesn't have any severe known bugs. At present, this is somewhat
newer than Ubuntu 7.04, but may have significant bugs.

3. Unstable - contains new stuff that may be badly broken (but usually
isn't).

In addition, there's

4. Experimental - a partial repository containing packages that are
considered too risky even for Unstable.

You can mix and match: for instance, my desktop box mostly uses
Testing, except a few packages from Experimental and their
dependencies from Unstable.

You can add extra repositories at will: for instance, I use packages
from debian-multimedia.org for non-free software such as RealPlayer.

> Any comments gratefully received.

If you decide to try Debian, these are the obvious sources of help:

Usenet: alt.os.linux.debian (low volume compared with AOLU, no flame
wars)

Mailing Lists: debian-user (also readable as news:linux.debian.user or
via Gmane)

IRC: #debian (very high traffic)

And there are Debian-specific forums at sites like
linux-questions.org.

--
PJR :-)

On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 08:59:51 -0400
George Peatty wrote:

> I tried it. It didn't work for me. Highest video resolution Debian would
> allow was 800 x 600. It did not offer read-write NTFS support, and I didn't
> see any way to get it .. Both of those were deal-breakers for me. I'd love
> to try Debian, because it is the core of so many good distros: Knoppix and
> Ubuntu to name two. But, I suspect one of the reasons it's so stable is it
> takes forever to get problems resolved, so it's always a little behind the
> others.

I just installed it on one box, running at 1280x1024 (Radeon 9600).
Only installed it yesterday so haven't found everything yet.


--
People say I'm violent.
Tell 'em it aint true or I'll kick yer teeth in!

In response to Hadron 's post. I thought everyone should know:

> Did anyone here ever try to move from Ubuntu to Debian?
>
> I am kind of tempted to give it a go now that I feel comfortable with
> Ubuntu. The big issue I have though is whether things will "just work"
> like they do in Ubuntu.
>
> e.g Will I spend hours trying to get my NVidia video card working again?
> Will my sound break like it was in 6.10? What about UUID/USB management?
>
> I understand that Debian has a "stability" reputation - but is it
> possible to point it at more "modern" repositories too?
>
> Any comments gratefully received.
>

i have several linux installs in my house. i've done a debian etch install
on a friends laptop, went well everything but the sound worked "out of the
box" a few days later after much googling with little luck on
finding a solution, it downloaded a update (i think alsa got updated with
those updates there were several and i didn't pay that close of attention)
the sound magically fixed itself.

--
Chris

On 02 Sep 2007 13:16:44 GMT
Peter J Ross wrote:

> There are three official repositories for Debian:

I must investigate these, as it is there's a few things I have
installed in Ubuntu that aren't available on the Debian box. DeVeDe for
example, which if it ever finishes encoding on what I previously
thought was a pretty fast CPU I'll be able to tell if it's any good and
worth installing on there :-)

--
People say I'm violent.
Tell 'em it aint true or I'll kick yer teeth in!

On 2007-09-02, Hadron wrote:
>
> I understand that Debian has a "stability" reputation - but is it
> possible to point it at more "modern" repositories too?
>
http://www.debian.org/

--
l'air du temps

"Hadron" illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sun, 02 Sep 2007 14:16:35
+0200 by typing:

>
> Did anyone here ever try to move from Ubuntu to Debian?
>
> I am kind of tempted to give it a go now that I feel comfortable with
> Ubuntu. The big issue I have though is whether things will "just work"
> like they do in Ubuntu.
>
> e.g Will I spend hours trying to get my NVidia video card working
> again? Will my sound break like it was in 6.10? What about UUID/USB
> management?
>
> I understand that Debian has a "stability" reputation - but is it
> possible to point it at more "modern" repositories too?
>
> Any comments gratefully received.

alt.os.linux.debian

You're off topic in here. Ubuntu is *based* on debian, but if you want
the full rundown, speak to debian users.

As an aside, I believe it is possible to migrate to Debian just by
replacing your repo sources to Debian ones, although this is just
something I've come across in the forums.

--
Moog

"Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the
leather straps."

* Hadron wrote in alt.os.linux.ubuntu:

> Did anyone here ever try to move from Ubuntu to Debian?

Funny you should mention that. I have recently become fascinated by
Virtual Machines. Having found a free way using the repository version
of the VMPlayer you can actually create new VM's very easily.

http://www.easyvmx.com

Makes it ridiculously easy.

Anyway, I created a vm using debian-testing-i386-businesscard.iso as a
base and chose not to install any desktop just yet. Since I have not
been able to boot to a console since my Mandr* days (I will leave that
for another thread) I am going to play around with it for a bit.

> I am kind of tempted to give it a go now that I feel comfortable with
> Ubuntu. The big issue I have though is whether things will "just work"
> like they do in Ubuntu.

So far so good, but as I said, no X yet.

> e.g Will I spend hours trying to get my NVidia video card working again?

Was the issued the driver or the config file. Couldn't you just copy it
over if so?

> Will my sound break like it was in 6.10? What about UUID/USB management?

> I understand that Debian has a "stability" reputation - but is it
> possible to point it at more "modern" repositories too?

> Any comments gratefully received.

That's all I have for now. Of course a VM is completely different then
dealing with real world hardware so YMMV.

--
David
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html

By trying we can easily learn to endure adversity. Another man's, I mean.
-- Mark Twain

jane doa wrote:

> On 2007-09-02, Hadron wrote:
>>
>> I understand that Debian has a "stability" reputation - but is it
>> possible to point it at more "modern" repositories too?
>>
> http://www.debian.org/
>
Or http://sidux.com, if you want latest-revision stuff and can accept a
slight risk of some instability.

--
David Aldred

Hadron illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
>
> Did anyone here ever try to move from Ubuntu to Debian?
>
> I am kind of tempted to give it a go now that I feel comfortable with
> Ubuntu. The big issue I have though is whether things will "just work"
> like they do in Ubuntu.
>
> e.g Will I spend hours trying to get my NVidia video card working again?
> Will my sound break like it was in 6.10? What about UUID/USB management?
>
> I understand that Debian has a "stability" reputation - but is it
> possible to point it at more "modern" repositories too?
>
> Any comments gratefully received.

I tried it on a laptop (Toshiba Qosmio) without any joy whatsoever. I
couldn't even get x to start. I swiftly gave up, but it was possibly
an error of mine.

The way I understand debian is that Etch is the stable version but you
can install the next version (testing/unstable) by changing your
sources.list to lenny from etch.

FWIW, it is possible to mix ubuntu and debian in your ubuntu sources
list.

--
Moog

"Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the
leather straps."

Moog writes:

> Hadron illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
>>
>> Did anyone here ever try to move from Ubuntu to Debian?
>>
>> I am kind of tempted to give it a go now that I feel comfortable with
>> Ubuntu. The big issue I have though is whether things will "just work"
>> like they do in Ubuntu.
>>
>> e.g Will I spend hours trying to get my NVidia video card working again?
>> Will my sound break like it was in 6.10? What about UUID/USB management?
>>
>> I understand that Debian has a "stability" reputation - but is it
>> possible to point it at more "modern" repositories too?
>>
>> Any comments gratefully received.
>
> I tried it on a laptop (Toshiba Qosmio) without any joy whatsoever. I
> couldn't even get x to start. I swiftly gave up, but it was possibly
> an error of mine.

The mine too. The first "recommendation" I got was from some fool who
insisted "it all just worked" (kind of why I feel for nOObs
sometimes). I never got within a Gnats knacker of getting debian running
from the installer. No X, No sound. No USB for some reason. I guess it
might be better now, and I am tempted to try but I have a feeling that
most of the "modern improvements" like upstart, video & sound which
work, network manager etc will all be missing. It's an indication of how
much the Ubuntu team have done IMO.

>
> The way I understand debian is that Etch is the stable version but you
> can install the next version (testing/unstable) by changing your
> sources.list to lenny from etch.
>
> FWIW, it is possible to mix ubuntu and debian in your ubuntu sources
> list.

Hmm, yes, but then that kind of defeats the object of going Debian
doesn't it? Debian with Ubuntu sources is pretty much Ubuntu :-;

In alt.os.linux.ubuntu on 2 Sep 2007 13:46:15 GMT, Moog
wrote:

> The way I understand debian is that Etch is the stable version but you
> can install the next version (testing/unstable) by changing your
> sources.list to lenny from etch.

Yes, you can easily upgrade, though I'd suggest *adding* testing/lenny
to the sources.list, leaving yourself the option of downgrading any
problematic packages.

You can also use the latest development version of the installer to
get lenny/testing from the start:


> FWIW, it is possible to mix ubuntu and debian in your ubuntu sources
> list.

It's certainly possible, but there may be enough divergence between
Debian and Ubuntu for blending them to cause problems.


--
PJR :-)

"Hadron" illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:

> Moog writes:
>
> > Hadron illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
> >>
> >> Did anyone here ever try to move from Ubuntu to Debian?
> >>
> >> I am kind of tempted to give it a go now that I feel comfortable
> >> with Ubuntu. The big issue I have though is whether things will
> >> "just work" like they do in Ubuntu.
> >>
> >> e.g Will I spend hours trying to get my NVidia video card working
> >> again? Will my sound break like it was in 6.10? What about
> >> UUID/USB management?
> >>
> >> I understand that Debian has a "stability" reputation - but is it
> >> possible to point it at more "modern" repositories too?
> >>
> >> Any comments gratefully received.
> >
> > I tried it on a laptop (Toshiba Qosmio) without any joy whatsoever.
> > I couldn't even get x to start. I swiftly gave up, but it was
> > possibly an error of mine.
>
> The mine too. The first "recommendation" I got was from some fool who
> insisted "it all just worked" (kind of why I feel for nOObs
> sometimes). I never got within a Gnats knacker of getting debian
> running from the installer. No X, No sound. No USB for some reason. I
> guess it might be better now, and I am tempted to try but I have a
> feeling that most of the "modern improvements" like upstart, video &
> sound which work, network manager etc will all be missing. It's an
> indication of how much the Ubuntu team have done IMO.

I quite agree. Ubuntu has been superb from the off and is progressing
nicely. As far as I can tell, canonical have taken Debian and given it
the much needed kick up the arse it required. This is good news for
both Debian and Ubuntu.

I just tried installing Debian in a VM and it fired up, loaded and
installed in a very slick manner. I probably chose some incompatible
option when installing on my old laptop, previously.

--
Moog

"Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the
leather straps."

Moog writes:

> "Hadron" illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sun, 02 Sep 2007 14:16:35
> +0200 by typing:
>
>>
>> Did anyone here ever try to move from Ubuntu to Debian?
>>
>> I am kind of tempted to give it a go now that I feel comfortable with
>> Ubuntu. The big issue I have though is whether things will "just work"
>> like they do in Ubuntu.
>>
>> e.g Will I spend hours trying to get my NVidia video card working
>> again? Will my sound break like it was in 6.10? What about UUID/USB
>> management?
>>
>> I understand that Debian has a "stability" reputation - but is it
>> possible to point it at more "modern" repositories too?
>>
>> Any comments gratefully received.
>
> alt.os.linux.debian
>
> You're off topic in here. Ubuntu is *based* on debian, but if you want
> the full rundown, speak to debian users.

I know what Ubuntu is. But it IS on topic here because I am asking the
opinion of Ubuntu users who have tried Debian. I don't want to ask
Debian users who might have dabbled with Ubuntu (yet).

Sinner's response was interesting.

I think I will repartition and give it a go. I wonder if I can mount my
Ubuntu /home to debian and thus retain my desktop etc?.

>
> As an aside, I believe it is possible to migrate to Debian just by
> replacing your repo sources to Debian ones, although this is just
> something I've come across in the forums.

--
Interesting poll results reported in today's New York Post: people on the
street in midtown Manhattan were asked whether they approved of the US
invasion of Grenada. Fifty-three percent said yes; 39 percent said no;
and 8 percent said "Gimme a quarter?"
-- David Letterman

"Hadron" illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:

>
> I think I will repartition and give it a go. I wonder if I can mount
> my Ubuntu /home to debian and thus retain my desktop etc?.

I would have thought so. Yes.

--
Moog

"Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the
leather straps."

In alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sun, 02 Sep 2007 18:30:21 +0200, Hadron
wrote:

> I know what Ubuntu is. But it IS on topic here because I am asking the
> opinion of Ubuntu users who have tried Debian. I don't want to ask
> Debian users who might have dabbled with Ubuntu (yet).

Oops! Nevertheless, I won't shut up yet. I *support* Ubuntu for
friends in real life who can be persuaded to switch to it, though I
usually prefer the newer software in Debian Testing or Unstable for my
own desktop.

> I wonder if I can mount my Ubuntu /home to debian and thus retain my
> desktop etc?.

Yes, but I'd suggest backing up your configuration files, just in
case. I can't remember any problems with Debian and Ubuntu in my
experience, but I got into a real mess a couple of years ago with
Debian and Gentoo, so incompatibilities are possible.

You should also be OK sharing /var and /tmp, if they're already
separate partitions, and of course swap. You *can* share /boot, but
it may get complicated and is probably more trouble than it's worth.

My last installs of Debian and Ubuntu worked about as well as each
other "out of the box": in Debian, but not Ubuntu, I had to run
alsaconf to get sound working; in Ubuntu, but not Debian, I had
printer trouble because the CUPS Web configuration interface demanded
a root password; in both, I had to tweak the X screen resolution with
dpkg-reconfigure.

I hope I'll see a review of your Debian experiences somewhere, perhaps
in AOLD. It should be much easier to install than a few years ago
(thanks in part to ideas adopted from Ubuntu), but the installer still
isn't exactly pretty.

--
PJR :-)

Peter J Ross writes:

> In alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Sun, 02 Sep 2007 18:30:21 +0200, Hadron
> wrote:
>
>> I know what Ubuntu is. But it IS on topic here because I am asking the
>> opinion of Ubuntu users who have tried Debian. I don't want to ask
>> Debian users who might have dabbled with Ubuntu (yet).
>
> Oops! Nevertheless, I won't shut up yet. I *support* Ubuntu for
> friends in real life who can be persuaded to switch to it, though I
> usually prefer the newer software in Debian Testing or Unstable for my
> own desktop.

Are you saying that I can run newer SW in Debian than I can in Ubuntu?

>
>> I wonder if I can mount my Ubuntu /home to debian and thus retain my
>> desktop etc?.
>
> Yes, but I'd suggest backing up your configuration files, just in
> case. I can't remember any problems with Debian and Ubuntu in my
> experience, but I got into a real mess a couple of years ago with
> Debian and Gentoo, so incompatibilities are possible.
>
> You should also be OK sharing /var and /tmp, if they're already
> separate partitions, and of course swap. You *can* share /boot, but
> it may get complicated and is probably more trouble than it's worth.
>
> My last installs of Debian and Ubuntu worked about as well as each
> other "out of the box": in Debian, but not Ubuntu, I had to run
> alsaconf to get sound working; in Ubuntu, but not Debian, I had
> printer trouble because the CUPS Web configuration interface demanded
> a root password; in both, I had to tweak the X screen resolution with
> dpkg-reconfigure.
>
> I hope I'll see a review of your Debian experiences somewhere, perhaps
> in AOLD. It should be much easier to install than a few years ago
> (thanks in part to ideas adopted from Ubuntu), but the installer still
> isn't exactly pretty.

Thanks Peter, you have been very helpful. I kind of *want* to move to
Debian if only to be more "hard core" :-;

Ubuntu is for kids ....

Hadron wrote:
> Did anyone here ever try to move from Ubuntu to Debian?
>
> I am kind of tempted to give it a go now that I feel comfortable with
> Ubuntu. The big issue I have though is whether things will "just work"
> like they do in Ubuntu.
>
> e.g Will I spend hours trying to get my NVidia video card working again?
> Will my sound break like it was in 6.10? What about UUID/USB management?
>
> I understand that Debian has a "stability" reputation - but is it
> possible to point it at more "modern" repositories too?
>
> Any comments gratefully received.
>

I have been using Sidux for some months now and think it is the best
distro I have ever used..and I have used a lot..It does have an
excellent script for setting up and upgrading the system including auto
setup for vid cards...There is also a sctipt for installing non-free
stuff which in my opinion is better than Auromatix...Same goes for
compiz...It is well worth a d/load of the live cd to try out and
a good read of the Sidux manual....I have installed it on 6 boxes
without any problems and all the users are perfectly satisfied...

Regards
Ted Wager G3TPI
High Peak UK
Using Sidux Linux

Ted writes:

> Hadron wrote:
>> Did anyone here ever try to move from Ubuntu to Debian?
>>
>> I am kind of tempted to give it a go now that I feel comfortable with
>> Ubuntu. The big issue I have though is whether things will "just work"
>> like they do in Ubuntu.
>>
>> e.g Will I spend hours trying to get my NVidia video card working again?
>> Will my sound break like it was in 6.10? What about UUID/USB management?
>>
>> I understand that Debian has a "stability" reputation - but is it
>> possible to point it at more "modern" repositories too?
>>
>> Any comments gratefully received.
>>
>
> I have been using Sidux for some months now and think it is the best
> distro I have ever used..and I have used a lot..It does have an
> excellent script for setting up and upgrading the system including
> auto setup for vid cards...There is also a sctipt for installing
> non-free stuff which in my opinion is better than Auromatix...Same
> goes for
> compiz...It is well worth a d/load of the live cd to try out and
> a good read of the Sidux manual....I have installed it on 6 boxes
> without any problems and all the users are perfectly satisfied...
>
> Regards
> Ted Wager G3TPI
> High Peak UK
> Using Sidux Linux

Sounds interesting - I had never heard of it. But my main aim is to move
fully away from any "small" distro and try and stay with a mainstream
"holy" distro like Debian. As a few posters know, I'm not a fan of
"distro hell" and I worry that things like Siduy are merely a flash in
the pan and I ended up getting stung by some poor release or it being
simply abandoned.

--
Hire the morally handicapped.