Re: I'm impressed - Ubuntu

This is a discussion on Re: I'm impressed - Ubuntu ; On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:44:11 -0400, Michael Trausch wrote: >Try doing that on a Microsoft > system... :-) > > -- Mike > You don't need to. That's what plug 'n' play is for. I should have known making ...

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Thread: Re: I'm impressed

  1. Re: I'm impressed

    On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:44:11 -0400, Michael Trausch wrote:

    >Try doing that on a Microsoft
    > system... :-)
    >
    > -- Mike
    >


    You don't need to. That's what plug 'n' play is for. I should have known
    making a positive comment about Microsoft's OS would bring out the Linux
    fanbois.

  2. Re: I'm impressed

    Fish, on 08/30/2007 07:40 PM said:
    >
    > You don't need to. That's what plug 'n' play is for. I should have
    > known making a positive comment about Microsoft's OS would bring out
    > the Linux fanbois.
    >


    lol... Nah, it's just that if it breaks on Windows, there is no real way
    to fix things by hand; you have to leave that to the various repair
    software that Microsoft has created on it's install CDs and the like, or
    use something like BartPE to try to get to things.

    Safe Mode in Windows systems typically will work, but not always; if
    there's something really messed up, most of the configuration is stored
    in binary files, so it's rather hard for a regular user to fix and reboot.

    Of course, I am a fan of Linux---it's all I run, but not just because
    it's Linux. I do try other systems out and the like, just to see what
    they are about. If I could get away with it (read: if it supported my
    hardware), I would run FreeBSD, only because I prefer the abilities it
    presents with filesystems that Linux doesn't have without using LVM.

    All that having been said, Windows does have a target niche---as does
    any other operating system. I'm fine with what people choose to use so
    long as they are either (a) educated about it or (b) aware that they're
    not and prefer inertia over anything else; my choices aren't going to be
    influenced by others, particularly when it comes to what software I use
    on my PC and network. To me, Windows is just plain unusable---over
    nearly any other system---for a number of reasons mostly centering
    around how inflexible it is.

    -- Mike

    --
    Michael B. Trausch http://www.trausch.us/
    Pidgin 2.1.1 and plugins for Ubuntu Feisty! http://www.trausch.us/pidgin

  3. Re: I'm impressed

    On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 23:40:12 GMT
    Fish wrote:

    > On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:44:11 -0400, Michael Trausch wrote:
    >
    > >Try doing that on a Microsoft
    > > system... :-)
    > >
    > > -- Mike
    > >

    >
    > You don't need to. That's what plug 'n' play is for. I should have known
    > making a positive comment about Microsoft's OS would bring out the Linux
    > fanbois.


    Of course there was no reason that anyone named that "plug and Pray"
    then, because it *always* works doesn't it?

    --
    People say I'm violent.
    Tell 'em it aint true or I'll kick yer teeth in!

  4. Re: I'm impressed

    Trevor Best writes:

    > On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 23:40:12 GMT
    > Fish wrote:
    >
    >> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:44:11 -0400, Michael Trausch wrote:
    >>
    >> >Try doing that on a Microsoft
    >> > system... :-)
    >> >
    >> > -- Mike
    >> >

    >>
    >> You don't need to. That's what plug 'n' play is for. I should have known
    >> making a positive comment about Microsoft's OS would bring out the Linux
    >> fanbois.

    >
    > Of course there was no reason that anyone named that "plug and Pray"
    > then, because it *always* works doesn't it?


    It normally does. Certainly an order of magnitude more often than
    not. People whine. It's what the net is for :-;

  5. Re: I'm impressed

    On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:31:45 +0200
    Hadron wrote:

    > Trevor Best writes:
    >
    > > On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 23:40:12 GMT
    > > Fish wrote:
    > >
    > >> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:44:11 -0400, Michael Trausch wrote:
    > >>
    > >> >Try doing that on a Microsoft
    > >> > system... :-)
    > >> >
    > >> > -- Mike
    > >> >
    > >>
    > >> You don't need to. That's what plug 'n' play is for. I should have known
    > >> making a positive comment about Microsoft's OS would bring out the Linux
    > >> fanbois.

    > >
    > > Of course there was no reason that anyone named that "plug and Pray"
    > > then, because it *always* works doesn't it?

    >
    > It normally does. Certainly an order of magnitude more often than
    > not. People whine. It's what the net is for :-;


    Something that quite often goes wrong is USB flash drives that try to
    take a drive letter that's already in use. No problem for me as I know
    where disk management is, there's probably a few hapless users out
    there who've thrown away a perfectly good stick. Of course a new one
    would cause "new hardware" and thus take an unused drive letter further
    confirming that the previous flash drive was duff.

    --
    People say I'm violent.
    Tell 'em it aint true or I'll kick yer teeth in!

  6. Re: I'm impressed

    On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:58:18 +0100, Trevor Best wrote:
    > Something that quite often goes wrong [[with XP]] is USB flash
    > drives that try to
    > take a drive letter that's already in use.


    Happens all the time if you map a network drive letter. The drive
    management code does not bother to check for network drive letters. Its
    been like this since USB stick support was added, and they've done nowt
    about it.

    Meanwhile hotplugging on Linux has advanced to the point where you just
    plug things in and they get named for the volume name, and you can unplug
    them without any special actions first. What P&P was promised to be when
    it was first mooted - and that was on the Apple Lisa, IRRC

    Worth every penny, Windows, isn't it?

    --
    Bob Harvey OETKB

  7. Re: I'm impressed

    On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:24:07 +0100, Trevor Best wrote:

    > Of course there was no reason that anyone named that "plug and
    > Pray" then, because it *always* works doesn't it?


    That was in win95 days!

    --
    Chris Game

    "There is much pleasure to be gained in useless knowledge."
    -- Bertrand Russell

  8. Re: I'm impressed

    Chris Game wrote:

    > On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:24:07 +0100, Trevor Best wrote:
    >
    >> Of course there was no reason that anyone named that "plug and
    >> Pray" then, because it *always* works doesn't it?

    >
    > That was in win95 days!
    >


    And it hasn't worked real good then. And it still works not too good now in
    windows.
    Just plug in USB devices into a different port several times in XP

    Far too often you are faced with the "new hardware detected" message even
    when the driver is already installed. That is bull**** of the highest
    order, and complete incompetence from MS.
    --
    Avoid reality at all costs.


  9. Re: I'm impressed

    On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 04:49:39 -0500
    Robert Harvey wrote:

    > Meanwhile hotplugging on Linux has advanced to the point where you just
    > plug things in and they get named for the volume name, and you can unplug
    > them without any special actions first. What P&P was promised to be when
    > it was first mooted - and that was on the Apple Lisa, IRRC


    Ubuntu complains if I just yank it out, but IMHO that's a good thing,
    if data is still being written then yanking it out will not be very
    well received. Windows OTOH used to complain but doesn't anymore.
    Whether thye disabled write caching for them I don't know.

    > Worth every penny, Windows, isn't it?


    Worth every penny that *I* paid for it in any case ;-)

    --
    People say I'm violent.
    Tell 'em it aint true or I'll kick yer teeth in!

  10. Re: I'm impressed

    Trevor Best writes:

    > On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 04:49:39 -0500
    > Robert Harvey wrote:
    >
    >> Meanwhile hotplugging on Linux has advanced to the point where you just
    >> plug things in and they get named for the volume name, and you can unplug
    >> them without any special actions first. What P&P was promised to be when
    >> it was first mooted - and that was on the Apple Lisa, IRRC

    >
    > Ubuntu complains if I just yank it out, but IMHO that's a good thing,
    > if data is still being written then yanking it out will not be very
    > well received. Windows OTOH used to complain but doesn't anymore.
    > Whether thye disabled write caching for them I don't know.
    >
    >> Worth every penny, Windows, isn't it?

    >
    > Worth every penny that *I* paid for it in any case ;-)


    Do you know how to turn it off? I want to switch off my external USBs
    after back up and downloads etc. I cant unmount from nautilus and when I
    turn off I dont want these damn annoying warnings. I assume that after a
    few deconds any caches would be written as in Windows?

  11. Re: I'm impressed

    On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 19:23:42 +0200
    Hadron wrote:

    > Trevor Best writes:
    >
    > > On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 04:49:39 -0500
    > > Robert Harvey wrote:
    > >
    > >> Meanwhile hotplugging on Linux has advanced to the point where you just
    > >> plug things in and they get named for the volume name, and you can unplug
    > >> them without any special actions first. What P&P was promised to be when
    > >> it was first mooted - and that was on the Apple Lisa, IRRC

    > >
    > > Ubuntu complains if I just yank it out, but IMHO that's a good thing,
    > > if data is still being written then yanking it out will not be very
    > > well received. Windows OTOH used to complain but doesn't anymore.
    > > Whether thye disabled write caching for them I don't know.
    > >
    > >> Worth every penny, Windows, isn't it?

    > >
    > > Worth every penny that *I* paid for it in any case ;-)

    >
    > Do you know how to turn it off? I want to switch off my external USBs
    > after back up and downloads etc. I cant unmount from nautilus and when I
    > turn off I dont want these damn annoying warnings. I assume that after a
    > few deconds any caches would be written as in Windows?


    No, I've always unmounted from Nautilus. I think the cache lingers
    longer than Windows or else Windows just turned it's one off
    remembering back to the DOS 6.0 / Smartdrv fiasco.

    --
    People say I'm violent.
    Tell 'em it aint true or I'll kick yer teeth in!

  12. Re: I'm impressed

    Trevor Best, on 08/31/2007 01:10 PM said:
    > On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 04:49:39 -0500
    > Robert Harvey wrote:
    >
    >> Meanwhile hotplugging on Linux has advanced to the point where you just
    >> plug things in and they get named for the volume name, and you can unplug
    >> them without any special actions first. What P&P was promised to be when
    >> it was first mooted - and that was on the Apple Lisa, IRRC

    >
    > Ubuntu complains if I just yank it out, but IMHO that's a good thing,
    > if data is still being written then yanking it out will not be very
    > well received. Windows OTOH used to complain but doesn't anymore.
    > Whether thye disabled write caching for them I don't know.
    >


    Yes, the default was changed through a code push from MS, as I
    understand it. Even so, if you write a large file to a key, and yank
    the key... cache or no cache, you'll have a fscked stick.

    -- Mike

    --
    Michael B. Trausch http://www.trausch.us/
    Pidgin 2.1.1 and plugins for Ubuntu Feisty! http://www.trausch.us/pidgin

  13. Re: I'm impressed

    On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:42:11 -0400
    Michael Trausch <"mike|s/\\x40/\\./g;s/|.*|/\\x40/g;|trausch"@us> wrote:

    > Trevor Best, on 08/31/2007 01:10 PM said:
    > > On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 04:49:39 -0500
    > > Robert Harvey wrote:
    > >
    > >> Meanwhile hotplugging on Linux has advanced to the point where you just
    > >> plug things in and they get named for the volume name, and you can unplug
    > >> them without any special actions first. What P&P was promised to be when
    > >> it was first mooted - and that was on the Apple Lisa, IRRC

    > >
    > > Ubuntu complains if I just yank it out, but IMHO that's a good thing,
    > > if data is still being written then yanking it out will not be very
    > > well received. Windows OTOH used to complain but doesn't anymore.
    > > Whether thye disabled write caching for them I don't know.
    > >

    >
    > Yes, the default was changed through a code push from MS, as I
    > understand it. Even so, if you write a large file to a key, and yank
    > the key... cache or no cache, you'll have a fscked stick.


    Ah, so they didn't make it work better by making it look better, they
    just removed the finger wagging and invite potential disaster, way to
    go :-)

    --
    People say I'm violent.
    Tell 'em it aint true or I'll kick yer teeth in!

  14. Re: I'm impressed

    On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:24:07 +0100, Trevor Best wrote:


    > Of course there was no reason that anyone named that "plug and Pray"
    > then, because it *always* works doesn't it?
    >


    Get with the program, numb-nuts, we are well beyond the days of Win95, like
    12 years beyond.

  15. Re: I'm impressed

    On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 13:23:45 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:


    > And it hasn't worked real good then. And it still works not too good now in
    > windows.
    > Just plug in USB devices into a different port several times in XP
    >
    > Far too often you are faced with the "new hardware detected" message even
    > when the driver is already installed. That is bull**** of the highest
    > order, and complete incompetence from MS.


    OK, I agree with that one. That is annoying as hell but so long as you
    always use the same port for your flash drives etc. it won't happen.

  16. Re: I'm impressed

    On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:58:18 +0100, Trevor Best wrote:


    > Something that quite often goes wrong is USB flash drives that try to
    > take a drive letter that's already in use. No problem for me as I know
    > where disk management is, there's probably a few hapless users out
    > there who've thrown away a perfectly good stick. Of course a new one
    > would cause "new hardware" and thus take an unused drive letter further
    > confirming that the previous flash drive was duff.
    >


    Can't say I've ever seen that happen and I have 3 flashdrives, 3 external
    USB HDD's and a smartmedia reader, never has that happened to me.

  17. Re: I'm impressed

    On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 04:49:39 -0500, Robert Harvey wrote:


    > Worth every penny, Windows, isn't it?
    >


    If you want to knit-pick I can knit-pick as well as the next guy.
    Yesterday I wanted to remove the exit button from the top panel in Ubuntu,
    when I did that it caused it to crash and mess up the panel bar, just
    about all of the icons I had put there were gone so I had to reconfigure
    it all over again. Also yesterday when trying to play an OGG radio station
    in Rhythm Box it completely froze up Ubuntu, force quite wouldn't work
    either. I had to do a hard reset to get things working again. Geez, one
    little criticism of Linux and you some of you get all bent out of shape
    over it. No OS is perfect and all have plenty of room for improvements so
    **** you if you can't deal with my comments.

  18. Re: I'm impressed

    On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:25:28 +0100, Trevor Best wrote:


    > Ah, so they didn't make it work better by making it look better, they
    > just removed the finger wagging and invite potential disaster, way to
    > go :-)
    >


    If you do it correctly in Windows it will wag its finger if data is still
    being written. You don't just yank it out, you click the icon in the tray
    and choose to safely remove it. If data is still being written then it
    will tell you so. I was just copying some files to a flash drive in Ubuntu
    and it took a lot longer before it would let me unmount the drive than it
    would take in windows to safely remove it.

  19. Re: I'm impressed

    On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:23:29 -0400, Michael Trausch wrote:



    > All that having been said, Windows does have a target niche---as does
    > any other operating system. I'm fine with what people choose to use so
    > long as they are either (a) educated about it or (b) aware that they're
    > not and prefer inertia over anything else; my choices aren't going to be
    > influenced by others, particularly when it comes to what software I use
    > on my PC and network. To me, Windows is just plain unusable---over
    > nearly any other system---for a number of reasons mostly centering
    > around how inflexible it is.
    >
    > -- Mike
    >

    I have 4 PC's with 5 OS's installed right now so it's not like I am a one
    OS man. Lately I've been using Ubuntu the most but that could change
    tomorrow too. The fact is though most people don't want to edit files
    or generate a modeline to make a monitor work correctly. I installed
    Vista last night and the only thing I had to do was install a Vista
    driver for my HP laser printer. All other hardware was recognized
    and setup correctly. Windows update installed the sound driver for
    me. Piece of cake.

  20. Re: I'm impressed

    Fish illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
    >
    > The fact is though most people don't want to edit files
    > or generate a modeline to make a monitor work correctly.


    Quite right. And in a short time they won't have to.

    When Xorg 7.3 is released in a week or so and the distros
    start including it in their repositories, for instance.

    What will you whine about then?

    --
    Moog

    "Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the
    leather straps."

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