Big Power Outage - Suse

This is a discussion on Big Power Outage - Suse ; In case someone is wondering why the updates don't work: http://news.opensuse.org/2008/10/10/...s-are-located/ -- Vahis http://waxborg.servepics.com Congressman Wilson has an expression: "You can teach them to type, but you can't teach them to grow tits."...

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Big Power Outage

  1. Big Power Outage

    In case someone is wondering why the updates don't work:

    http://news.opensuse.org/2008/10/10/...s-are-located/

    --
    Vahis
    http://waxborg.servepics.com
    Congressman Wilson has an expression:
    "You can teach them to type, but you can't teach them to grow tits."

  2. Re: Big Power Outage

    Vahis wrote:
    > In case someone is wondering why the updates don't work:
    >
    > http://news.opensuse.org/2008/10/10/...s-are-located/
    >


    How did the system even know there was an update if update servers were
    down?


    --
    Blattus Slafaly ? 3 7/8

  3. Re: Big Power Outage

    On 2008-10-11, Blattus Slafaly wrote:
    > Vahis wrote:
    >> In case someone is wondering why the updates don't work:
    >>
    >> http://news.opensuse.org/2008/10/10/...s-are-located/
    >>

    >
    > How did the system even know there was an update if update servers were
    > down?


    The system asks the servers about updates. That's how.

    If it can not connect the update servers to ask, it will tell also the
    admin about it. That's how the admin gets aware about the situation.

    It's a bit unclear there what you are asking, but in my case
    cron sent me email telling that it could not connect to the update
    servers to check if there were updates available.

    Normally the system would know only after checking with the servers.

    I smell troll, but it's kinda fun

    Like talking about systems who "know" something.
    Like because they can't "see" the servers.
    Like wondows talk

    --
    Vahis
    http://waxborg.servepics.com
    Congressman Wilson has an expression:
    "You can teach them to type, but you can't teach them to grow tits."

  4. Re: Big Power Outage

    On 2008-10-11, Blattus Slafaly wrote:
    > Vahis wrote:
    >> In case someone is wondering why the updates don't work:
    >>
    >> http://news.opensuse.org/2008/10/10/...s-are-located/
    >>

    >
    > How did the system even know there was an update if update servers were
    > down?


    The system asks the servers about updates. That's how.

    If it can not connect the update servers to ask, it will tell also the
    admin about it. That's how the admin gets aware about the situation.

    It's a bit unclear there what you are asking, but in my case
    cron sent me email telling that it could not connect to the update
    servers to check if there were updates available.

    Normally the system would know only after checking with the servers.

    I smell troll, but it's kinda fun

    Like talking about systems who "know" something.
    Like because they can't "see" the servers.
    Like windows talk

    --
    Vahis
    http://waxborg.servepics.com
    Congressman Wilson has an expression:
    "You can teach them to type, but you can't teach them to grow tits."

  5. Re: Big Power Outage

    On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 14:13:11 -0400, Blattus Slafaly wrote:
    > How did the system even know there was an update if update servers
    > were down?


    That is a good question, but it makes an invalid assumption.

    The local system did not know there was an update.

    When the local system asked the remote server if there was an update,
    it received no answer.

    So the real question is, why did the local system ask the remote server.

    And the answer to that is, that when you turn on update notifications,
    the local system polls the remote servers at regular intervals, asking
    if there are any updates.

    It is because of this regular polling and the failure to connect,
    that the local system then invoked a mechanism to send an alert that a
    failure had occurred.

  6. Re: Big Power Outage

    J G Miller wrote:
    > On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 14:13:11 -0400, Blattus Slafaly wrote:
    > > How did the system even know there was an update if update servers
    > > were down?

    >
    > That is a good question, but it makes an invalid assumption.
    >
    > The local system did not know there was an update.
    >
    > When the local system asked the remote server if there was an update,
    > it received no answer.
    >
    > So the real question is, why did the local system ask the remote server.
    >
    > And the answer to that is, that when you turn on update notifications,
    > the local system polls the remote servers at regular intervals, asking
    > if there are any updates.
    >
    > It is because of this regular polling and the failure to connect,
    > that the local system then invoked a mechanism to send an alert that a
    > failure had occurred.


    You both misunderstood. I actually had a file in the update list that it
    wanted to download and install. How did the file get in the list, how
    did it already know WHAT needed updating? Get my drift? It's not a
    troll question.

  7. Re: Big Power Outage

    Claude Hopper wrote:
    > J G Miller wrote:
    >> On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 14:13:11 -0400, Blattus Slafaly wrote:
    >> > How did the system even know there was an update if update servers
    >> > were down?

    >>
    >> That is a good question, but it makes an invalid assumption.
    >>
    >> The local system did not know there was an update.
    >>
    >> When the local system asked the remote server if there was an update,
    >> it received no answer.
    >>
    >> So the real question is, why did the local system ask the remote server.
    >>
    >> And the answer to that is, that when you turn on update notifications,
    >> the local system polls the remote servers at regular intervals, asking
    >> if there are any updates.
    >>
    >> It is because of this regular polling and the failure to connect,
    >> that the local system then invoked a mechanism to send an alert that a
    >> failure had occurred.

    >
    > You both misunderstood. I actually had a file in the update list that it
    > wanted to download and install. How did the file get in the list, how
    > did it already know WHAT needed updating? Get my drift? It's not a
    > troll question.



    maybe your machine 'learned' of the update and THEN the power went out..

    --
    DenverD (Linux Counter 282315) via Thunderbird 2.0.0.14, KDE 3.5.7, SUSE Linux
    10.3, 2.6.22.18-0.2-default #1 SMP i686 athlon

  8. Re: Big Power Outage

    On 2008-10-11, Claude Hopper wrote:
    > J G Miller wrote:
    >> On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 14:13:11 -0400, Blattus Slafaly wrote:
    >> > How did the system even know there was an update if update servers
    >> > were down?

    >>
    >> That is a good question, but it makes an invalid assumption.
    >>
    >> The local system did not know there was an update.
    >>
    >> When the local system asked the remote server if there was an update,
    >> it received no answer.
    >>
    >> So the real question is, why did the local system ask the remote server.
    >>
    >> And the answer to that is, that when you turn on update notifications,
    >> the local system polls the remote servers at regular intervals, asking
    >> if there are any updates.
    >>
    >> It is because of this regular polling and the failure to connect,
    >> that the local system then invoked a mechanism to send an alert that a
    >> failure had occurred.

    >
    > You both misunderstood. I actually had a file in the update list that it
    > wanted to download and install. How did the file get in the list, how
    > did it already know WHAT needed updating? Get my drift? It's not a
    > troll question.


    Your system had checked for updates before the server died.
    They were there then, after the server gone down there was no
    connection.

    Normally the automatic update polling thingy does its job once in 24 hours.

    --
    Vahis
    http://waxborg.servepics.com
    Congressman Wilson has an expression:
    "You can teach them to type, but you can't teach them to grow tits."

  9. Re: Big Power Outage

    This is one of the reasons why I submitted a bug back in 10.2/3 days.
    YaST forces you to wait for it's timeout period when it can't access
    the server.
    For every repository it needs to do updates or use the software
    manager.
    For me yesterday, it took about 15 minutes to get out of YaST without
    doing a kill or log out.
    I requested that abort be made effective - it is still not effective
    on 11.0.
    They did add a button to tell it not to do a repository list update
    but it also does NOT work.

    There are lots of things in YaST that force you to wait for a response
    for minutes for some remote system to respond, and it's timeout period
    needs to be shortened to seconds with todays hi speed Internet.

    Perhaps now there will be enough outcry for someone to take a serious
    look at how YaST

    And this is posted via google - the cox newsgroup server is giving me
    subject only listings and cannot find the contents.


  10. Re: Big Power Outage

    John LB2002 wrote:
    >This is one of the reasons why I submitted a bug back in 10.2/3 days.
    >YaST forces you to wait for it's timeout period when it can't access
    >the server.
    >For every repository it needs to do updates or use the software
    >manager.
    >For me yesterday, it took about 15 minutes to get out of YaST without
    >doing a kill or log out.


    You were luckier than I. After about half an hour I killed
    the update by becoming root.

    >I requested that abort be made effective - it is still not effective
    >on 11.0.


    I agree. Either fix it or remove it.

    --
    --- Paul J. Gans

  11. Re: Big Power Outage

    Paul J Gans wrote:
    > You were luckier than I. After about half an hour I killed
    > the update by becoming root.


    I do updates automagicaly, so I have no idea and do not realy care how
    long it took.

    houghi
    --
    "Other than the fact Linux has a cool name, could someone explain why I should
    use Linux over BSD? No. That's it. The cool name, that is. We worked very hard
    on creating a name that would appeal to the majority of people, and it
    certainly paid off [...] -- Linus Torvalds

  12. Re: Big Power Outage

    John LB2002 wrote:
    > And this is posted via google - the cox newsgroup server is giving me
    > subject only listings and cannot find the contents.


    There are plenty of free text servers around. No need to use google. I
    have posted a list of them a few times.

    houghi
    --
    "Other than the fact Linux has a cool name, could someone explain why I should
    use Linux over BSD? No. That's it. The cool name, that is. We worked very hard
    on creating a name that would appeal to the majority of people, and it
    certainly paid off [...] -- Linus Torvalds

  13. Re: Big Power Outage

    John LB2002 wrote:

    >
    > There are lots of things in YaST that force you to wait for a response
    > for minutes for some remote system to respond, and it's timeout period
    > needs to be shortened to seconds with todays hi speed Internet.
    >


    I have to vigorously disagree with this. Since high speed access is not
    available universally, shortening the timeout period to "seconds" might
    make it impossible for some computers to perform an update AT ALL!

    I would suggest that the proper solution is to make the timeout period a
    configurable parameter.


  14. Re: Big Power Outage

    Larry Bristol wrote:
    >John LB2002 wrote:


    >> There are lots of things in YaST that force you to wait for a response
    >> for minutes for some remote system to respond, and it's timeout period
    >> needs to be shortened to seconds with todays hi speed Internet.


    >I have to vigorously disagree with this. Since high speed access is not
    >available universally, shortening the timeout period to "seconds" might
    >make it impossible for some computers to perform an update AT ALL!


    >I would suggest that the proper solution is to make the timeout period a
    >configurable parameter.


    Self-tuning. Effective network speed can be deduced from
    e.g. ping times.

    A simple approach would be to do the tuning on-demand. A more
    complex one could "continuously" sense the effective speeds and tune
    according to average rates during use over several sessions.
    --
    /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
    \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | Science is the belief in
    X against HTML mail | the ignorance of the experts.
    / \ and postings | -- Richard Feynman

  15. Re: Big Power Outage

    houghi wrote:

    > John LB2002 wrote:
    >> And this is posted via google - the cox newsgroup server is giving me
    >> subject only listings and cannot find the contents.

    >
    > There are plenty of free text servers around. No need to use google. I
    > have posted a list of them a few times.
    >
    > houghi


    I did google because I knew it was there. I don't have your list and didn't
    take time to look.

    But one benefit is that google is now sending me daily emails about which
    threads are new or have new posts. Something I can not get with Knode and
    west.cox.net. Also, the posts are available directly for reading letting
    you do a search on the text of the message.

    Guess I'll have to search on google for your list, given their long history.

    Is there another reader package and server combo that will allow that search
    of the text body?

    John

  16. Re: Big Power Outage

    John Bowling wrote:
    > I did google because I knew it was there. I don't have your list and didn't
    > take time to look.


    http://groups.google.com/group/alt.o...ac91d20dbcea13
    or http://tinyurl.com/3jvx6q

    > But one benefit is that google is now sending me daily emails about which
    > threads are new or have new posts. Something I can not get with Knode and
    > west.cox.net.


    If that is what you want, you can set it up for yourself. I do not see
    the advantage of it.

    > Also, the posts are available directly for reading letting
    > you do a search on the text of the message.


    Mine as well.

    > Guess I'll have to search on google for your list, given their long history.


    See above

    > Is there another reader package and server combo that will allow that search
    > of the text body?


    Add leafnode into it and you have all you need.

    houghi
    --
    Dr. Walter Gibbs: Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs
    will start thinking and the people will stop.
    -- Tron (1982)

+ Reply to Thread