No installation on new hardware - Suse

This is a discussion on No installation on new hardware - Suse ; Blattus Slafaly wrote: > I had problems with some mobos mixing SATA and PATA drives. Bios likes > to boot one or the other. OS's don't see both drives. Keep them > separate. For instance on a PCChips I have ...

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Thread: No installation on new hardware

  1. Re: No installation on new hardware

    Blattus Slafaly wrote:
    > I had problems with some mobos mixing SATA and PATA drives. Bios likes
    > to boot one or the other. OS's don't see both drives. Keep them
    > separate. For instance on a PCChips I have Windoz 2000 on the PATA and
    > OpenSuSE on the SATA. Which I have first in the bios is the one that boots.


    I tried it with only a CD trying to run the live CD and turned
    everything else off in the BIOS as wemmas not having it connected in any
    way. Same result.

    --
    houghi http://www.houghi.org
    My experience with SuSE Linux 9.1

    > The businessworld is like prison and M$ made everybody their bitch.


  2. Re: No installation on new hardware

    houghi wrote:
    > Blattus Slafaly wrote:
    >> I had problems with some mobos mixing SATA and PATA drives. Bios likes
    >> to boot one or the other. OS's don't see both drives. Keep them
    >> separate. For instance on a PCChips I have Windoz 2000 on the PATA and
    >> OpenSuSE on the SATA. Which I have first in the bios is the one that boots.

    >
    > I tried it with only a CD trying to run the live CD and turned
    > everything else off in the BIOS as wemmas not having it connected in any
    > way. Same result.
    >


    If memory test is ok then motherboard is shot. I'm sure you already
    check processor heat sink properly seated with heat sink compound and
    other obvious overheating problems and bus controller fan and/or heat
    sink. Outside chance could be the power supply acting weird.

    --
    Claude Hopper ? 3 7/8

  3. Re: No installation on new hardware

    houghi wrote:
    > Blattus Slafaly wrote:
    >> I had problems with some mobos mixing SATA and PATA drives. Bios likes
    >> to boot one or the other. OS's don't see both drives. Keep them
    >> separate. For instance on a PCChips I have Windoz 2000 on the PATA and
    >> OpenSuSE on the SATA. Which I have first in the bios is the one that boots.

    >
    > I tried it with only a CD trying to run the live CD and turned
    > everything else off in the BIOS as wemmas not having it connected in any
    > way. Same result.
    >

    You have pre-compiled bootable .iso Memtest86+ CD?
    http://www.memtest.org/

    --
    Claude Hopper ? 3 7/8

  4. Re: No installation on new hardware

    houghi wrote:
    >houghi wrote:
    >> I even tried different distributions. Sigh. Any pointers are obviously
    >> welcome.


    >The saga continues. I was able to get as far as starting the minimal
    >installation. I was able to select the HD partitioning and what it did
    >then was start. It did the formatting and blocked at setting up grub.


    >The only thing I can of is that it is either the motherboard or the
    >processor that does not do what it is supposed to do. As if it freezes
    >after a certain time which then causes the kernel panic. S any idea on
    >how to detemine this?


    I have no *good* ideas. But if it is truly random, it
    could be a crack in the mother board or, more likely,
    overheating.

    You probably answered this already, but I didn't see the
    answer: have you tried a LiveCD of any sort and does it
    run?

    --
    --- Paul J. Gans

  5. Re: No installation on new hardware

    houghi wrote:
    >J G Miller wrote:
    >> On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 14:13:58 +0000, houghi wrote:
    >>> Any pointers are obviously welcome.

    >>
    >> My suggestion would be to disconnect as many peripherals as possible and
    >> to try with the latest Knoppix CD if possible.


    >Done that and the same result.


    >> So on the first try, do not even have the hard disks connected, just
    >> try booting up from a CD in a single attached CD/DVD reader with just
    >> the video card in the machine (as far as expansion cards are concerned).


    >Same result.


    >> Then if that works, connect one hard disk and try again.
    >>
    >> I trust you have checked that the memory is correctly seated?


    >Yes. And replaced them in various order.


    >> You could also try with just one memory stick in, and then gradually
    >> add the others, one by one to see if that causes any trouble.


    >Nothing differently.


    In that case it starts to look like a motherboard problem. Or
    a problem with one of the components on the motherboard.

    Has any system ever run successfully with this motherboard?

    --
    --- Paul J. Gans

  6. Re: No installation on new hardware

    Blattus Slafaly wrote:
    >houghi wrote:
    >> Darn. It isn't working as expected. This is the first time in, well,
    >> ever, that the installation does not work. I have several ISOs burned.
    >> 32 and 64 bit KDE live, Net 64 bit and DVD 64 bit.
    >>
    >> There is no real difference between them. The following happens:
    >>
    >> The bios recognises all drives. CD and DVD player, 2 IDE drives, 2 SATA
    >> drives, 2 PCI card IDE drives.
    >>
    >> When I boot from the HD that I had in my old PC, it boots and gives some
    >> error about USB and goes to /bin/sh. I fully expect it not to go to GUI
    >> and I would have expected some errors about partitons. However none of
    >> that. At least it boots I am just unable to do much with it.
    >>
    >> The next I tried is booting from disk. It boots anf loads the kernel.
    >> After that the screen goes black. I have tried the differnt kernel
    >> options and the same thing happens.
    >>
    >> I then tried textmode and the first time it hung with some sata driver,
    >> so I dsabled sata. Then it hung with USB and that is when I noticed the
    >> time and called it a day.
    >>
    >> I will try again tolorrow and give lore details about errors. Now I am
    >> too tired to think of a solution.
    >>


    >I had problems with some mobos mixing SATA and PATA drives. Bios likes
    >to boot one or the other. OS's don't see both drives. Keep them
    >separate. For instance on a PCChips I have Windoz 2000 on the PATA and
    >OpenSuSE on the SATA. Which I have first in the bios is the one that boots.


    Interesting point. That may be what is wrong with my machine that
    won't load 11.0. The DVD drive is PATA, the HD's SATA.

    I can test that in several ways.

    Thanks for the hint.

    --
    --- Paul J. Gans

  7. Re: No installation on new hardware

    Claude Hopper wrote:
    > If memory test is ok then motherboard is shot.


    Darn. :-(

    > I'm sure you already
    > check processor heat sink properly seated with heat sink compound and
    > other obvious overheating problems and bus controller fan and/or heat
    > sink. Outside chance could be the power supply acting weird.


    I will rebuild the PC for the third time and see if there is any change.
    It is a complete new machine and I do not have the right parts in my old
    machine to do the chane of parts. :-(


    houghi
    --
    Microsoft says, "Where do you want to go today?"
    Apple says, "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
    FOSS says, "Are you coming, or what?"

  8. Re: No installation on new hardware

    houghi wrote:
    > Water cooling. Themerature does vary from 30 when starting to 55 when
    > doing some test that worked from ultimatedcd. When the problem arrisez,
    > it is avout 40-45 celcius, so not a real issue.


    I have a working machine. Sort of. :-D

    So what I have done is re-connected everything again, then put the PC on
    its side (which is not the way things should be) and then put a hard
    blowing fan the size of the case on full speed. The airflow should be
    enough to cool down 50 PCs or so.

    Then I went ahead again and did a minimal install, which installed
    pretty quick. Then an ssh to my provider in the Netherlands and type
    this.

    I also installed sensors and that gives me normal temperatures of 35 for
    the CPU to 51 for one of the graphic cards.

    So the next chalange is to start downloading porn, I mean, get the three
    screens connected together and install a GUI and see if I am able to
    connect all three screens.

    Once that works, I will be looking if I can find a problem. My guess now
    is that one of the connections was not 100% or that either the north or
    south bridge became too hot. If the first, no idea why I did not notice
    it the first time I redid it. If the second, I will just put
    watercooling on those as well.

    Mmm. Come to think of it, it might have been also the videocard. As I
    have ones with passive headsinks and I did the trials with the lid open,
    perhaps there was not enough airflow to cool them That should be solved
    when I connect the 2 14cm, 2 12cm and 2 9or 4 if enough room) fans in
    the box. They are extremely silent. The thing I heard when the machine
    was connected was the waterpump. :-D

    For now it all looks good, although I have no idea what went wrong at
    this moment.
    --
    houghi http://www.houghi.org
    My experience with SuSE Linux 9.1

    > The businessworld is like prison and M$ made everybody their bitch.


  9. Re: No installation on new hardware

    houghi wrote:
    > For now it all looks good, although I have no idea what went wrong at
    > this moment.


    Just started the second installation with full GUI.

    That worked, but I was unable to run sax2 to set up the GUI. So I did a
    third installation doing just a minimal installation and add the GUI,
    like I did the first time.

    I did not looked for a solution. I just reinstalled again and see what
    would happen. I wanted to re-set my partitions anyway. So it is now
    happily downoading several GB again. :-D

    I anm thinking about bringing the extra screws they gave me to the
    old-metal dealer. That should give me at least back 95% of what I payed
    for all and I could even make a profit. It is several tons of them, or
    so it seems.

    Oh and no success on the GUI.
    --
    houghi http://www.houghi.org
    My experience with SuSE Linux 9.1

    > The businessworld is like prison and M$ made everybody their bitch.


  10. Re: No installation on new hardware

    On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 22:46:19 +0000, houghi wrote:
    > Partitioning is not the issue, as I do not even get there. This happens
    > if there are no HDs in there.

    Have you tried booting a kernel with all of the ultra safe options
    (no apci no dma etc etc)?

    Another heretical thought for this newsgroup, have you tried booting up
    with a Windoze rescue type cd (Hiren's boot cd or whatever) to see if
    you can get any further diagnostic information?

    No doubt by now you have checked that your memory sticks are properly
    seated and run a memory test program?

    And the memory sticks are in the appropriate paired set of slots?

    And you have checked all your BIOS settings to check all the settings
    and that you are not overclocking or underclocking your CPU and/or
    memory?

    As has already been stated, one typical cause of intermittent problems is
    something overheating and the system cutting out, so you have checked
    for this also?

  11. Re: No installation on new hardware

    On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 09:31:46 +0000, houghi wrote:
    > Come to think of it, it might have been also the videocard. As I
    > have ones with passive headsinks and I did the trials with the lid open,
    > perhaps there was not enough airflow to cool them

    I once had a similar problem during the summer months.

    The machine would boot up and everything was fine for about 10 minutes
    and then it would just freeze regardless of what one was doing.

    I eventually checked the video card and the fan on it was not working
    as it should have because of the accumulation of fluff. After giving it
    a really good clean with a can of air, the freezing of the system never
    occurred again.

    The moral of the story was, ensure that the video card as well as
    everything else is being adequately cooled.

  12. Re: No installation on new hardware

    houghi wrote:
    > Oh and no success on the GUI.


    Partly success with the GUI. I am able to get both cards configured, but
    they won't run at the same time at this moment after trying out for
    about 3 minutes. :-D

    What I did was `sax -c 0` and `sax -c 1` and with that I could do one
    screen on each. Using the thing I normally use `sax2 -c
    /usr/share/sax/profile/NVidia_DualHead` did not show the possibilaty to
    show two screens.

    So I will be trying to do the 1-click-NVidea and see what happens there.

    Some extra information:
    houghi@pasta:~> df -h
    Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
    /dev/sda2 20G 3.2G 16G 17% /
    /dev/sda3 99M 19M 76M 20% /boot
    /dev/sda5 9.9G 151M 9.2G 2% /var/spool
    /dev/sda6 9.9G 151M 9.2G 2% /srv
    /dev/sda7 418G 202M 397G 1% /home

    /dev/sdb2 20G 173M 19G 1% /other
    /dev/sdb3 99M 5.6M 89M 6% /other/boot
    /dev/sdb4 438G 199M 416G 1% /other/backup

    The reason I selected this is for the folowing reason:
    / should be obvious.
    /boot Seperate, because I will do it read-only and unmunt it after
    booting.
    /var/spool
    Seperate, because it contains both mail and news and that way I
    do not need to restore it after a new installation
    /dev/sda6
    Seperate because I will not need to restore it after a new
    installation
    /home Should be obvious. I will also make a /home/everybody so I can
    put shared stuff there
    /other
    Any other installation. Most likely this will be a previous
    installation.
    /other/boot
    Well, DUH!
    /other/backup
    Backup. Will ne read only.

    Some other useless info:
    houghi@pasta:~> free
    total used free shared buffers
    cached
    Mem: 8199952 686744 7513208 0 31712
    384816
    -/+ buffers/cache: 270216 7929736
    Swap: 2104432 0 2104432


    top - 15:33:53 up 35 min, 7 users, load average: 0.00, 0.03, 0.04
    Tasks: 141 total, 1 running, 140 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
    Cpu0 : 0.0%us, 0.0%sy, 0.0%ni, 99.7%id, 0.0%wa, 0.3%hi, 0.0%si, 0.0%st
    Cpu1 : 3.5%us, 0.3%sy, 0.0%ni, 96.1%id, 0.0%wa, 0.0%hi, 0.0%si, 0.0%st
    Cpu2 : 0.0%us, 0.3%sy, 0.0%ni, 99.7%id, 0.0%wa, 0.0%hi, 0.0%si, 0.0%st
    Cpu3 : 0.0%us, 0.0%sy, 0.0%ni,100.0%id, 0.0%wa, 0.0%hi, 0.0%si, 0.0%st
    Mem: 8199952k total, 687180k used, 7512772k free, 31860k buffers
    Swap: 2104432k total, 0k used, 2104432k free, 384816k cached


    --
    houghi http://www.houghi.org
    My experience with SuSE Linux 9.1

    > The businessworld is like prison and M$ made everybody their bitch.


  13. Re: No installation on new hardware

    J G Miller wrote:
    > The moral of the story was, ensure that the video card as well as
    > everything else is being adequately cooled.


    The videocard doesn't have a fan, so it should be able to work without
    one. However I do have two of them, so perhaps one is causing too much
    heat for the other.

    Either that or one or both of the bridges get too hot. As I now have
    GUI, I can monitor it much better. Almost lost two days which I should
    have been using with configuring. Oh well.

    --
    houghi http://www.houghi.org
    My experience with SuSE Linux 9.1

    > The businessworld is like prison and M$ made everybody their bitch.


  14. Re: No installation on new hardware

    houghi wrote:
    > So I will be trying to do the 1-click-NVidea and see what happens there.


    For reference. If you have two cards, get one card running with `sax2
    -c 0` abd/or `sax2 -c 1`
    Next use http://opensuse-community.org/nvidia.ymp to install the NVIdia
    drivers
    Go bax to `init 3` and launch in my case with two cards `sax2 -c 0
    /usr/share/sax/profiles/NVidia_multihead`

    Now you are able to select Traditional multihead, Cloned multihead and
    Xinerama multihead.

    Next you open a terminal and become root with `su -`. Run as root
    `nvidia-settings`. There you can add the third (or any) screen you
    desire.

    So I now have three screens. I can even add a fourth screen. And they
    are all working. Neato.
    --
    houghi http://www.houghi.org
    My experience with SuSE Linux 9.1

    > The businessworld is like prison and M$ made everybody their bitch.


  15. Re: No installation on new hardware

    J G Miller wrote:
    > On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 22:46:19 +0000, houghi wrote:
    >> Partitioning is not the issue, as I do not even get there. This happens
    >> if there are no HDs in there.

    > Have you tried booting a kernel with all of the ultra safe options
    > (no apci no dma etc etc)?


    Yes. No results.

    > Another heretical thought for this newsgroup, have you tried booting up
    > with a Windoze rescue type cd (Hiren's boot cd or whatever) to see if
    > you can get any further diagnostic information?


    Yes, no results.

    > No doubt by now you have checked that your memory sticks are properly
    > seated and run a memory test program?


    Yes, no results.

    > And the memory sticks are in the appropriate paired set of slots?


    Yes, changes gave no results.

    > And you have checked all your BIOS settings to check all the settings
    > and that you are not overclocking or underclocking your CPU and/or
    > memory?


    Yes, no results.

    > As has already been stated, one typical cause of intermittent problems is
    > something overheating and the system cutting out, so you have checked
    > for this also?


    Yes and I saw nothing.

    --
    houghi http://www.houghi.org
    My experience with SuSE Linux 9.1

    > The businessworld is like prison and M$ made everybody their bitch.


  16. Re: No installation on new hardware

    On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:07:21 +0000, houghi wrote:
    > Yes and I saw nothing.

    But it would appear that you did not do the absolute minimum hardware
    test as earlier suggested, and try booting up the machine with only *one*
    video card.

  17. Re: No installation on new hardware

    J G Miller wrote:
    > On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:07:21 +0000, houghi wrote:
    >> Yes and I saw nothing.

    > But it would appear that you did not do the absolute minimum hardware
    > test as earlier suggested, and try booting up the machine with only *one*
    > video card.


    I did that as well later on. But anyway, it works now and I will be
    looking what the cause is much later.

    --
    houghi http://www.houghi.org
    My experience with SuSE Linux 9.1

    > The businessworld is like prison and M$ made everybody their bitch.


  18. Re: No installation on new hardware

    houghi wrote:

    > houghi wrote:
    >> So I will be trying to do the 1-click-NVidea and see what happens there.

    >
    > For reference. If you have two cards, get one card running with `sax2
    > -c 0` abd/or `sax2 -c 1`
    > Next use http://opensuse-community.org/nvidia.ymp to install the NVIdia
    > drivers
    > Go bax to `init 3` and launch in my case with two cards `sax2 -c 0
    > /usr/share/sax/profiles/NVidia_multihead`
    >
    > Now you are able to select Traditional multihead, Cloned multihead and
    > Xinerama multihead.
    >
    > Next you open a terminal and become root with `su -`. Run as root
    > `nvidia-settings`. There you can add the third (or any) screen you
    > desire.
    >
    > So I now have three screens. I can even add a fourth screen. And they
    > are all working. Neato.


    I've staid out of this thread as I only help if I know what I'm talking
    about...usually. But I'm wondering about this point. Since you have just
    spent a lot on your spiffy new wonder box and you have lots of screen real
    estate and performance is an issue...why not use multiple hard drives to
    spread the file system on to get better performance ? I learned long ago
    that by spreading the filesystem over multiple drives the system
    performance gain can be quite impressive. Though not identical to the gain
    made by using raid it has the same effect. So by putting say / on one
    drive and /usr on another and /opt on another you will have substantially
    better overall I/O performance as multiple operations can/will be performed
    simultaneously. Does this make sense or am I just hallucinating again ?

    P.S. I'm sure you have plenty to do now and the last thing you need to do
    is pay for more hardware. Just wondering who else uses multiple hard
    drives for this purpose and what other hackers use this method...

    Enjoy your new computer ! Isn't it fun ?

  19. Re: No installation on new hardware

    Michael Soibelman wrote:
    > I've staid out of this thread as I only help if I know what I'm talking
    > about...usually. But I'm wondering about this point. Since you have just
    > spent a lot on your spiffy new wonder box and you have lots of screen real
    > estate and performance is an issue...why not use multiple hard drives to
    > spread the file system on to get better performance ?


    Because perfarmance is absolutely no issue.

    > I learned long ago
    > that by spreading the filesystem over multiple drives the system
    > performance gain can be quite impressive. Though not identical to the gain
    > made by using raid it has the same effect. So by putting say / on one
    > drive and /usr on another and /opt on another you will have substantially
    > better overall I/O performance as multiple operations can/will be performed
    > simultaneously. Does this make sense or am I just hallucinating again ?


    You are correct. However it would mean that I won't have one single
    place to put my backups. Also there are better ways to go about it if
    this is an issue.

    1) Use raid. If you need speed, use raid for speed.
    2) Use faster HDs. At least 10.000 RPM and if possible 15.000RPM
    3) Depending on what you need it for, add memory and use that.

    The latter is what guru (the main openSUSE FTP) has done when 10.0 or
    10.1 hit the download. They had enough bandwith to deal with it, but the
    disks could not bear the load because the HD's needed to be accessed so
    many times for so many people that it slowed down.

    So they added enough memory (I believe some 48GB) so that the images
    where loaded in memory and things improved enourmously.

    I am thinking about putting some stuff in memory. Probably placing a
    sort of /tmp there, although I am not sure what to put there.


    houghi
    --
    houghi http://houghi.org http://www.plainfaqs.org/linux/
    http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
    >
    > Today I went outside. My pupils have never been tinier...


  20. Re: No installation on new hardware

    houghi wrote:
    >houghi wrote:
    >> Water cooling. Themerature does vary from 30 when starting to 55 when
    >> doing some test that worked from ultimatedcd. When the problem arrisez,
    >> it is avout 40-45 celcius, so not a real issue.


    >I have a working machine. Sort of. :-D


    >So what I have done is re-connected everything again, then put the PC on
    >its side (which is not the way things should be) and then put a hard
    >blowing fan the size of the case on full speed. The airflow should be
    >enough to cool down 50 PCs or so.


    >Then I went ahead again and did a minimal install, which installed
    >pretty quick. Then an ssh to my provider in the Netherlands and type
    >this.


    >I also installed sensors and that gives me normal temperatures of 35 for
    >the CPU to 51 for one of the graphic cards.


    >So the next chalange is to start downloading porn, I mean, get the three
    >screens connected together and install a GUI and see if I am able to
    >connect all three screens.


    >Once that works, I will be looking if I can find a problem. My guess now
    >is that one of the connections was not 100% or that either the north or
    >south bridge became too hot. If the first, no idea why I did not notice
    >it the first time I redid it. If the second, I will just put
    >watercooling on those as well.


    >Mmm. Come to think of it, it might have been also the videocard. As I
    >have ones with passive headsinks and I did the trials with the lid open,
    >perhaps there was not enough airflow to cool them That should be solved
    >when I connect the 2 14cm, 2 12cm and 2 9or 4 if enough room) fans in
    >the box. They are extremely silent. The thing I heard when the machine
    >was connected was the waterpump. :-D


    >For now it all looks good, although I have no idea what went wrong at
    >this moment.


    Congratulations! Several of us suggested overheating because
    of the random nature of the crashes.

    I suspect now you will have a problem making it crash again.
    The God of Improbability is at work... ;-)

    --
    --- Paul J. Gans

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