Suse 10.3 and DVD::RIP - Suse

This is a discussion on Suse 10.3 and DVD::RIP - Suse ; Ron Gibson wrote: > On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:02:01 +0100, Darklight wrote: > >> then i use the above command and yes it does work but the Avi file >> comes out >> in french i have googled to ...

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Thread: Suse 10.3 and DVD::RIP

  1. Re: Suse 10.3 and DVD::RIP

    Ron Gibson wrote:

    > On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:02:01 +0100, Darklight wrote:
    >
    >> then i use the above command and yes it does work but the Avi file
    >> comes out
    >> in french i have googled to find out what needs to be changed but i can't
    >> find the answer any help would be helpful.

    >
    > Was the source file in French? I make sure the torrent I'm getting is in
    > English first. There are some things that are lost such as subtitles
    > unless you do a 1:1 conversion. Among those things are language menus,
    > etc.
    >


    yes the mpg file was in English if i try to reformat the file to an avi file
    using the commands you provided, i get French, and even then sound and
    vision are out of phase.

    I have tried to use avidemux but that won't do what i want IE work. The dvd
    is a pal dvd if i rip a nstc dvd all my media apps work IE dvd:rip,
    avidemux and dvdstyler.

  2. Re: Suse 10.3 and DVD::RIP

    On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 09:58:55 +0200, houghi wrote:

    > I am curious why you mention that it does not conflict with Gnome libs.
    > That would imply that other things do conflict with Gnome libs. I have
    > not yet found any reason to think or say that.


    > As I said, I use programs, regardless of what libs are behind them. The
    > advantage of not spending time on them myself, but using the default.


    Well I've forgotten some aspects of this but recall enough to know it's
    a PITA, especially compiling Gnome. This is why Pat dropped it from
    Slack - He was having to spend too much time sorting out the conflicts
    that arise.

    Some Gnome apps just won't run under KDE without almost the entire Gnome
    base installed anyway like Evolution. So if you must have Evolution it
    becomes sort of pointless to have KDE as you might as well install
    all of Gnome. In the case of DVD::RIP it won't run or compile unless
    almost all of the Gnome base is present. Further complicating the problem
    as at some point it will become a guessing game as to what you need to
    install. Gnome is not as modular as KDE and where a compilation might
    tell you missing XYZ you find that in order to install XYZ you have to
    install a whole bunch of other stuff.

    Going in the other direction it generally takes less core KDE support to
    get stuff that works with KDE to run in Gnome. That's why konsole and
    kate have a small footprint and will cause no problems.

    Eventually you can sort out the problems encountered but the time
    involved to do so is excessive and frankly it becomes easier to just
    install another distro with Gnome only. Slack is not the only distro to
    feel the effects of the fork like divergence of Gnome. For Suse there is
    a KDE install CD and a Gnome install CD. There is Ununtu and Kubuntu and
    so on...

    I really wish Gnome would not insist on this approach. There is no
    reason for them to create a schism where one need not exist.



    --
    Email - rsgibson@verizon.borg
    Replace borg with net
    If its Tourist Season, why can't we shoot 'em ???


  3. Re: Suse 10.3 and DVD::RIP

    On Wed, 9 Apr 2008, Ron Gibson wrote:-

    >On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 15:44:36 +0100, David Bolt wrote:
    >
    >> you get the 5.1 ac3 audio stream instead of a stereo mp3 stream.

    >
    >You definitely be da man on this stuff !


    Not yet I'm not. I've barely progressed beyond neophyte.

    >BTW, that little trick in forcing DD 5.1 is not so easy to do with doze.


    It's possible to use FFmpeg under Windows although I don't know of
    anyone that has done so and made the binaries available for download.

    I only learnt about that little trick a few days ago. I was
    "volunteered" to help out a friend who'd downloaded several AVIs and the
    (Windows) player was playing all the audio streams together. Not exactly
    helpful when the different streams were for different languages, and the
    player that they were using didn't make it obvious how to pick the
    single audio stream they wanted.

    >It sure appears that the Linux tools are superior.


    Some Linux-based tools are easier to use than the Windows equivalents,
    just as there are some Windows-based tools that are better than their
    Linux equivalents.

    >Helps to know how to use them, though :-)


    Oh yes, but a part of the fun is playing with the various settings to
    see what works, what doesn't, and what changes each one does. It helps
    to have small samples to play with, maybe 10-20 minute lengths as they
    don't take a great deal of time to transcode, but are also long enough,
    if you get the right samples, to see the full effects of the changes.

    >Have you ever considered adding something to wiki or perhaps doing a
    >website?


    I honestly wouldn't know where to begin.

    >You've demonstrated a comprehensive grasp of this that I have
    >not been able to find googling.


    I'll say I know a little bit about it, but what I know is mainly from
    experimenting, reading the various web pages that give info, man pages,
    a couple of mailing lists, and also experimenting with various files
    I've acquired.


    Regards,
    David Bolt

    --
    www.davjam.org/lifetype/ www.distributed.net: OGR@100Mnodes, RC5-72@15Mkeys
    SUSE 10.1 32bit | openSUSE 10.2 32bit | openSUSE 10.3 32bit | openSUSE 11.0a1
    SUSE 10.1 64bit | openSUSE 10.2 64bit | openSUSE 10.3 64bit
    RISC OS 3.6 | TOS 4.02 | openSUSE 10.3 PPC |RISC OS 3.11

  4. Re: Suse 10.3 and DVD::RIP

    Ron Gibson wrote:
    > Well I've forgotten some aspects of this but recall enough to know it's
    > a PITA, especially compiling Gnome. This is why Pat dropped it from
    > Slack - He was having to spend too much time sorting out the conflicts
    > that arise.


    As I said, I click on things and that is it. I do not care how much of
    extra software must be installed for it. So what if I have all of KDE or
    GNOME installed. It is not that I am actualy running it (Yes, I have
    both installed)
    All it takes up is diskspace.

    > Some Gnome apps just won't run under KDE without almost the entire Gnome
    > base installed anyway like Evolution. So if you must have Evolution it
    > becomes sort of pointless to have KDE as you might as well install
    > all of Gnome.


    Yep.

    > In the case of DVD::RIP it won't run or compile unless
    > almost all of the Gnome base is present.


    Indeed.

    > Further complicating the problem
    > as at some point it will become a guessing game as to what you need to
    > install.


    And here you make a HUGE mistake. I do not try to figure out anything. I
    let openSUSEs YaST do that for me. I click on the 1-Install of DVD::RIP
    and I am done.

    > Gnome is not as modular as KDE and where a compilation might
    > tell you missing XYZ you find that in order to install XYZ you have to
    > install a whole bunch of other stuff.


    Nice to know, but irrelevant.

    > Going in the other direction it generally takes less core KDE support to
    > get stuff that works with KDE to run in Gnome. That's why konsole and
    > kate have a small footprint and will cause no problems.


    Equaly nice to know and equaly irrelevant.

    > Eventually you can sort out the problems encountered but the time
    > involved to do so is excessive and frankly it becomes easier to just
    > install another distro with Gnome only. Slack is not the only distro to
    > feel the effects of the fork like divergence of Gnome. For Suse there is
    > a KDE install CD and a Gnome install CD. There is Ununtu and Kubuntu and
    > so on...


    And again you are wrong. It could be a pain on many distributions. It
    isn't on openSUSE. 1-Click install and you are set (most of the time)

    > I really wish Gnome would not insist on this approach. There is no
    > reason for them to create a schism where one need not exist.


    As I do not do anything, except install the software I want, I do not
    have an issue with it.

    houghi
    --
    This was written under the influence of the following:
    | Artist : Jimi Hendrix
    | Song : World Traveller
    | Album : Astro Man - Studio Outtakes

  5. Re: Suse 10.3 and DVD::RIP

    you might find smart package manager helpfull get it from here

    http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/rpm-...=/System/smart

    the above version is for opensuse 10.2 but that is not a problem once
    installed. open the app then click edit -> channels

    then change every thing from 10.2 to 10.3 once done close
    then click file update channels.

    the reason i use this app is that you get to see what is being installed
    and you will know what is going on.

    and it's easier to look for apps than using Yast2

    if you have this installed all ready my apologies

  6. Re: Suse 10.3 and DVD::RIP

    Darklight wrote:
    > you might find smart package manager helpfull get it from here



    Who or what are you replying to?

    houghi
    --
    This was written under the influence of the following:
    | Artist : Jimi Hendrix
    | Song : Stop
    | Album : Band Of Gypsys_ Live At The Fillmore East

  7. Re: Suse 10.3 and DVD::RIP

    On Thu, 10 Apr 2008, David Bolt wrote:-

    You know, I'm almost certain I'd forget my head if it wasn't so firmly
    attached.



    >I only learnt about that little trick a few days ago. I was
    >"volunteered" to help out a friend who'd downloaded several AVIs and the
    >(Windows) player was playing all the audio streams together. Not exactly
    >helpful when the different streams were for different languages, and the
    >player that they were using didn't make it obvious how to pick the
    >single audio stream they wanted.


    I was going to add the details about this learning experience, and
    another "trick" I learnt as well. While this relates to the AVI files I
    "sorted out", the same principle applies to MPEGs with multiple audio
    streams.

    So, first of all here's the file details of one of the videos as given
    by ffmpeg:

    davjam@playing:/local2/avis> ffmpeg -i "input.101.avi"
    FFmpeg version UNKNOWN, Copyright (c) 2000-2008 Fabrice Bellard, et al.
    configuration: --shlibdir=/usr/lib64 --prefix=/usr --libdir=/usr/lib64 --mandir=/usr/share/man --arch=x86_64 --cpu=athlon64 --enable-pthreads
    --enable-shared --enable-libmp3lame --enable-libvorbis --enable-libtheora --enable-libfaad --enable-libfaac --enable-libxvid --enable-liba52 --
    enable-swscale --enable-postproc --enable-gpl --enable-vhook --enable-x11grab --enable-libgsm --enable-libx264
    libavutil version: 49.6.0
    libavcodec version: 51.54.0
    libavformat version: 52.13.0
    libavdevice version: 52.0.0
    built on Apr 8 2008 19:48:03, gcc: 4.1.0 (SUSE Linux)
    Input #0, avi, from 'input.101.avi':
    Duration: 00:42:18.6, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 1329 kb/s
    Stream #0.0: Video: mpeg4, yuv420p, 624x352 [PAR 1:1 DAR 39:22], 25.00 tb(r)
    Stream #0.1: Audio: mp3, 48000 Hz, stereo, 192 kb/s
    Stream #0.2: Audio: mp3, 48000 Hz, stereo, 32 kb/s
    Must supply at least one output file

    In this case I already knew that stream 0.1 is the English audio stream
    and stream 0.2 is the Spanish audio.

    Using the command:

    ffmpeg -i input.101.avi -threads 2 -acodec copy -vcodec copy output.101.xvid.avi

    ffmpeg will copy the video streams 0.0 and audio stream 0.1 into the
    output file. This was okay for what I wanted, but what happens if I
    wanted the second audio stream? Well, that's where the -map option comes
    in. By using the command:

    ffmpeg -i input.101.avi -threads 2 -map 0.0 -map 0.2 -acodec copy -vcodec copy output.101.xvid.avi

    I get the second audio stream in the input becoming the first audio
    stream in the output. In this case, just to make sure I don't have audio
    sync problems, I'd use a slight variation on that command:

    ffmpeg -i input.101.avi -threads 2 -map 0.0 -map 0.2:0 -acodec copy -vcodec copy output.101.xvid.avi

    By using 0.2:0 in the second -map, I still get the second audio channel
    mapped to the first audio channel in the output, but the :0 means that
    it's also synchronised with stream 0.0.

    Also, by using the options:

    -acodec copy -vcodec copy

    there's no additional processing going on and so no degradation of
    either the audio of video streams, and the whole process takes just a
    few seconds:

    davjam@playing:/local2/avis> time ffmpeg -threads 2 -i "input.101.avi" -map 0.0 -map 0.1:0 -acodec copy -vcodec copy -y
    "Output_-_s01e01.xvid.avi"
    FFmpeg version UNKNOWN, Copyright (c) 2000-2008 Fabrice Bellard, et al.
    configuration: --shlibdir=/usr/lib64 --prefix=/usr --libdir=/usr/lib64 --mandir=/usr/share/man --arch=x86_64 --cpu=athlon64 --enable-pthreads
    --enable-shared --enable-libmp3lame --enable-libvorbis --enable-libtheora --enable-libfaad --enable-libfaac --enable-libxvid --enable-liba52 --
    enable-swscale --enable-postproc --enable-gpl --enable-vhook --enable-x11grab --enable-libgsm --enable-libx264
    libavutil version: 49.6.0
    libavcodec version: 51.54.0
    libavformat version: 52.13.0
    libavdevice version: 52.0.0
    built on Apr 8 2008 19:48:03, gcc: 4.1.0 (SUSE Linux)
    Input #0, avi, from 'input.101.avi':
    Duration: 00:42:18.6, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 1329 kb/s
    Stream #0.0: Video: mpeg4, yuv420p, 624x352 [PAR 1:1 DAR 39:22], 25.00 tb(r)
    Stream #0.1: Audio: mp3, 48000 Hz, stereo, 192 kb/s
    Stream #0.2: Audio: mp3, 48000 Hz, stereo, 32 kb/s
    Output #0, avi, to 'Output_-_s01e01.xvid.avi':
    Stream #0.0: Video: mpeg4, yuv420p, 624x352, q=2-31, 25.00 tb(c)
    Stream #0.1: Audio: libmp3lame, 48000 Hz, stereo, 192 kb/s
    Stream mapping:
    Stream #0.0 -> #0.0
    Stream #0.1 -> #0.1 [sync #0.0]
    Press [q] to stop encoding
    frame=63467 fps=12724 q=-1.0 Lsize= 359219kB time=2538.7 bitrate=1159.2kbits/s
    video:295896kB audio:59331kB global headers:0kB muxing overhead 1.123874%

    real 0m5.743s
    user 0m1.752s
    sys 0m3.392s


    Regards,
    David Bolt

    --
    www.davjam.org/lifetype/ www.distributed.net: OGR@100Mnodes, RC5-72@15Mkeys
    SUSE 10.1 32bit | openSUSE 10.2 32bit | openSUSE 10.3 32bit | openSUSE 11.0a1
    SUSE 10.1 64bit | openSUSE 10.2 64bit | openSUSE 10.3 64bit
    RISC OS 3.6 | TOS 4.02 | openSUSE 10.3 PPC |RISC OS 3.11

  8. Re: Suse 10.3 and DVD::RIP

    On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:07:37 +0100, Darklight wrote:

    > you might find smart package manager helpfull get it from here


    > http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/rpm-...=/System/smart


    > the above version is for opensuse 10.2 but that is not a problem once
    > installed. open the app then click edit -> channels


    > then change every thing from 10.2 to 10.3 once done close
    > then click file update channels.


    > the reason i use this app is that you get to see what is being installed
    > and you will know what is going on.


    > and it's easier to look for apps than using Yast2


    Thanx and will take a look. One feature I miss that Mandriva used to
    have was it's package manager would list all files to be installed and
    what locations they were going. Otherwise Mandrivia has become pretty
    bad. My preferences are Slackware, Suse, Debian and BSD in that order
    (BSD is not really a linux but it sure is close).

    I like the verbose screen outputs however they are accomplished. That's
    why I always switch to lilo, set vga=normal and avoid the splash
    screens.

    Oh I could get pretty much get the same stuff by using dmesg |less but
    I'm so used to watching the screen scroll by I can spot a problem
    immediately.

    --
    Email - rsgibson@verizon.borg
    Replace borg with net
    If its Tourist Season, why can't we shoot 'em ???


  9. Re: Suse 10.3 and DVD::RIP

    On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:35:47 +0200, houghi wrote:

    > Darklight wrote:
    >> you might find smart package manager helpfull get it from here


    > Who or what are you replying to?


    I pretty sure me when from the post I mentioned about Yast2 being a tad
    cranky.

    --
    Email - rsgibson@verizon.borg
    Replace borg with net
    If its Tourist Season, why can't we shoot 'em ???


  10. Re: Suse 10.3 and DVD::RIP

    On Thu, 10 Apr 2008, Ron Gibson wrote:-



    >I like the verbose screen outputs however they are accomplished. That's
    >why I always switch to lilo, set vga=normal and avoid the splash
    >screens.


    Once it's started loading the kernel etc., there's no difference between
    LILO and grub. Also, adding splash=0 to the kernel options stops the
    splash screen being used while the system boots or shuts down.

    >Oh I could get pretty much get the same stuff by using dmesg |less but
    >I'm so used to watching the screen scroll by I can spot a problem
    >immediately.


    I prefer that as well. I even opened a bug just over a year ago (10.3a2)
    about YaST copying the kernel append options from the installation to
    that of the installed system but changing any splash= options to
    splash=silent. Unfortunately, that bug was assigned to the
    yast2-bootloader maintainer and has since been passed around by a few
    people. It's still open and now just appends a splash=silent instead of
    changing the given option, so the problem still exists in 11.0a3 :|


    Regards,
    David Bolt

    --
    www.davjam.org/lifetype/ www.distributed.net: OGR@100Mnodes, RC5-72@15Mkeys
    SUSE 10.1 32bit | openSUSE 10.2 32bit | openSUSE 10.3 32bit | openSUSE 11.0a1
    SUSE 10.1 64bit | openSUSE 10.2 64bit | openSUSE 10.3 64bit
    RISC OS 3.6 | TOS 4.02 | openSUSE 10.3 PPC |RISC OS 3.11

  11. Re: Suse 10.3 and DVD::RIP

    On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:00:43 +0200, houghi wrote:

    >> I really wish Gnome would not insist on this approach. There is no
    >> reason for them to create a schism where one need not exist.


    > As I do not do anything, except install the software I want, I do not
    > have an issue with it.


    Here is the issue. Yes, you can insall KDE and Gnome both in entirety.
    Likewise you can make apps run under both that are meant for the other
    manager.

    Approximately 5 years ago all the distros could do this easily. Then
    Gnome began to sort of fork off and became increasingly unfriendly to
    compile and install.

    With Mandriva you can also do the same. I mentioned that it's package
    manager shows all files that will be installed. When you see how much
    has to be installed to run one Gnome-centric app on a KDE system you
    might exclaim, "Good grief. I have to install 75 MB of stuff to run a 2
    MB application ???".

    This is very inefficient and poor design. One question I raise is whether
    that inefficiency is by accident or design. Gnome started on it's
    divergence about the same time some Dead Rat started making deals with
    traditional cooperate vendors.

    The result is yes it can be done but you end up with a precarious
    balance with each new iteration of Gnome (and KDE but to a lesser
    degree). Compounding the problem is that Gnome is a real PITA to compile
    and package even when there is no KDE around at all.

    So Pat Vokerling Slackware founder and author has stated that in order
    to put forth the best product he and his team can no longer devote that
    much time on Gnome when they are working on a new release. So he dropped
    the Gnome desktop. Now it appears what he said outright other distros
    have not, while quietly taking the same approach.

    Backing up as I said 5 years ago this was not an issue. In the time
    since then I see little that has changed with Gnome other than it
    becoming such a PITA.

    And what happens is there is a Suse way to attack the problem, a Mandriva
    way to attack the problem and so on which creates a fragmented Linux
    Community regarding how to resolve these issues and IMO that is not a
    good thing.

    So in summary my objections to all of this are based on the principals
    of the Open Software movement and as a user wanting to understand how
    each Desktop works. In order for me to increase that knowledge it's
    best not to mix the two so I can first study each in isolation from the
    other.

    One day perhaps I will learn enough so as to understand both in great
    depth. I feel pretty darn good about KDE right now but Gnome has become
    a black box to me over the last five years. I fact my first encounter
    with these issues came when I was trying to compile an app, and it
    bombed saying it needed XYZ. So I added that and then it bombed saying
    yet another thing was needed and then another and another at which point
    I said "Good grief. What is going on here? I never had to do this
    before".

    Not that's been a while so I don't recall exact details. Since that time
    I've had occasion to try to compile apps like DVD::RIP and started
    seeing the same type failures. Well having been down that road before I
    know it's gonna lead to a very frustrating experience and I give up IN
    EXPECTATION of what is going to follow if I continue. So I don't bother
    to chase down the exact problems anymore.

    Besides there are guys that will post on the topic sooner or later on
    USENET who I know and respect as they have a heck of a lot more expertise
    with C and C++ that I do. I'm a FORTRAN guy and frankly C looks like an
    alien language to me.

    Also if I'm spending hours studying a problem I'd rather it be spent on
    learning more about the video stuff right now and it's a very time
    consuming endeavor.

    Having said all that there is certainly nothing wrong with doing it
    like you do. For one Suse is your base distro. Mine is Slackware and
    they are different. A task or tweak that takes me a few seconds in Slack
    might take an hour for me in Suse. Likewise a task that takes you a few
    minutes in Suse might take an hour in Slack.

    Which path you take in issues like this depends on what you cut your
    linux teeth on and with what you've spent the most time with since then.

    That must be balanced with what tasks you do every day and how much time
    you have left over for "exploration".

    Having said all of that I sure would like to see version 10.3 of
    Suse/KDE. As I mentioned 10.2 give me a real hassle for some reason so
    I had dropped back to 10.1. Now 10.3 appears to me to be much more
    polished. I know if was gonna go the rpm route Suse would be the first
    choice hands down. IMO installing Dead Rat is like becoming an Alpha
    tester. It's not even close Suse is so far superior.

    Perhaps in about 3-4 months I'll be able to free space (I am working
    with anther test install so I have three Linux distros now). I expect to
    have completed one project in a few months, maybe sooner. then I'll have
    the space I like to have. Geez I just bought anther 160GB drive to handle
    video overflow. Right now my total usable storage capacity is about
    ..75TB.

    I remember the day I was so overjoyed that I finally got a huge 540MB
    HD for $500

    --
    Email - rsgibson@verizon.borg
    Replace borg with net
    If its Tourist Season, why can't we shoot 'em ???


  12. Re: Suse 10.3 and DVD::RIP

    Ron Gibson wrote:
    > On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:00:43 +0200, houghi wrote:
    >
    >>> I really wish Gnome would not insist on this approach. There is no
    >>> reason for them to create a schism where one need not exist.

    >
    >> As I do not do anything, except install the software I want, I do not
    >> have an issue with it.

    >
    > Here is the issue. Yes, you can insall KDE and Gnome both in entirety.
    > Likewise you can make apps run under both that are meant for the other
    > manager.
    >
    > Approximately 5 years ago all the distros could do this easily. Then
    > Gnome began to sort of fork off and became increasingly unfriendly to
    > compile and install.


    Yes and no. SUSE installed large packages under /opt (arguably correct),
    but the rest wanted a humongous /usr (arguably wrong). With openSUSE 10.3,
    we have a fat /usr design (ala Red Hat, Fedora, etc). It's "wrong"
    because it greatly limits flexibility in partitioning. The /opt
    idea (Sun?) was to house apps that had their own infrastructure
    (e.g. lib/, bin/, etc/... ) in separate directories in /opt. However
    since the development communities as a whole rejected the idea and
    too much stuff was hard-coded, even SUSE was forced to do the
    fat /usr thing.

    I will miss /opt which may totally go away in 11.

    My point is that it was painful to make Gnome install into /opt.
    So perhaps it actually is getting "easier" (???)


    ....
    >
    > Backing up as I said 5 years ago this was not an issue. In the time
    > since then I see little that has changed with Gnome other than it
    > becoming such a PITA.


    Gnome was fundamentally broken. The CORBA orb behind Gnome never
    worked reliably, and was overkill for what most wanted it to do.
    KDE's DCOP was what Gnome needed. The freedesktop.org projects
    set out to basically "fix" Gnome. Thus Gnome is somewhat in flux
    and using the beta-ware from freedesktop.org while still having
    to support the old bonobo (CORBA orb) stuff during the
    transition.

    Gnome is slowly picking up many of the features that KDE has
    had for years... but it's still far from complete. AND
    freedesktop.org technology is in a high state of flux....
    will certainly just add to the stability issues.

    .....
    >
    > One day perhaps I will learn enough so as to understand both in great
    > depth. I feel pretty darn good about KDE right now but Gnome has become
    > a black box to me over the last five years. I fact my first encounter
    > with these issues came when I was trying to compile an app, and it
    > bombed saying it needed XYZ. So I added that and then it bombed saying
    > yet another thing was needed and then another and another at which point
    > I said "Good grief. What is going on here? I never had to do this
    > before".


    Your world is about to be turned upside down. With the advent
    of freedesktop.org's d-bus, KDE4 will migrate totally away from
    DCOP to using d-bus. Which in short, means that KDE4 will be
    broken for awhile. Why? Because while DCOP is similar to
    d-bus in functionality, d-bus requires an API change, which means
    that apps have to be rewritten and compiled for KDE4. May take
    some time...

    freedesktop.org + KDE = KDE4... and a really big mess...

    >
    > Not that's been a while so I don't recall exact details. Since that time
    > I've had occasion to try to compile apps like DVD::RIP and started
    > seeing the same type failures. Well having been down that road before I
    > know it's gonna lead to a very frustrating experience and I give up IN
    > EXPECTATION of what is going to follow if I continue. So I don't bother
    > to chase down the exact problems anymore.


    As you all have said... it's just too easy to use the command line
    stuff... that's what all those fancy packages are using anyhow.

    ....
    >
    > Having said all that there is certainly nothing wrong with doing it
    > like you do. For one Suse is your base distro. Mine is Slackware and
    > they are different. A task or tweak that takes me a few seconds in Slack
    > might take an hour for me in Suse. Likewise a task that takes you a few
    > minutes in Suse might take an hour in Slack.


    Agreed. It's really whatever you are used to doing. Sometimes
    YaST (for example) can make a complicated task lightning fast.... BUT
    if YaST does it wrong... it can create a nightmare (don't see that
    too much anymore).

    ....
    >
    > Having said all of that I sure would like to see version 10.3 of
    > Suse/KDE. As I mentioned 10.2 give me a real hassle for some reason so
    > I had dropped back to 10.1. Now 10.3 appears to me to be much more
    > polished. I know if was gonna go the rpm route Suse would be the first
    > choice hands down. IMO installing Dead Rat is like becoming an Alpha
    > tester. It's not even close Suse is so far superior.


    10.3 comes pre-configured with warts and all!! There are pros and
    cons to 10.3. And 11 isn't going to fix ANY of it... in fact,
    there will be twice as many variables in 11... so I anticipate
    a lot of work ahead.

    >
    > Perhaps in about 3-4 months I'll be able to free space (I am working
    > with anther test install so I have three Linux distros now). I expect to
    > have completed one project in a few months, maybe sooner. then I'll have
    > the space I like to have. Geez I just bought anther 160GB drive to handle
    > video overflow. Right now my total usable storage capacity is about
    > .75TB.
    >
    > I remember the day I was so overjoyed that I finally got a huge 540MB
    > HD for $500
    >


    My first hard drive was a 60MB SCSI drive I purchased for my
    Amiga for a low price of $800 (including controller).

    Just remember openSUSE is NOT necessarily an improvement to something
    like 10.1/10.2. In some ways yes... and in some ways no. But in
    general the big issues in 10.1 are fixed... so most would say
    it's a worthwhile install (upgrade more difficult since the new
    libata is in play in 10.3... /dev/hda becomes /dev/sda, etc).

  13. Re: Suse 10.3 and DVD::RIP

    On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:17:31 -0500, Chris Cox wrote:

    See I knew someone would come along and fill in the blanks :-)

    > Yes and no. SUSE installed large packages under /opt (arguably correct),
    > but the rest wanted a humongous /usr (arguably wrong). With openSUSE 10.3,
    > we have a fat /usr design (ala Red Hat, Fedora, etc). It's "wrong"
    > because it greatly limits flexibility in partitioning. The /opt
    > idea (Sun?) was to house apps that had their own infrastructure
    > (e.g. lib/, bin/, etc/... ) in separate directories in /opt. However
    > since the development communities as a whole rejected the idea and
    > too much stuff was hard-coded, even SUSE was forced to do the
    > fat /usr thing.


    > I will miss /opt which may totally go away in 11.


    Yeah this sort of infighting is silly.

    > My point is that it was painful to make Gnome install into /opt.
    > So perhaps it actually is getting "easier" (???)


    On that I will wait for the trailblazers to report first. See my tagline :-)

    >> Backing up as I said 5 years ago this was not an issue. In the time
    >> since then I see little that has changed with Gnome other than it
    >> becoming such a PITA.


    > Gnome was fundamentally broken. The CORBA orb behind Gnome never
    > worked reliably, and was overkill for what most wanted it to do.
    > KDE's DCOP was what Gnome needed. The freedesktop.org projects
    > set out to basically "fix" Gnome. Thus Gnome is somewhat in flux
    > and using the beta-ware from freedesktop.org while still having
    > to support the old bonobo (CORBA orb) stuff during the
    > transition.


    Well that explains a lot of things for sure.

    > Gnome is slowly picking up many of the features that KDE has
    > had for years... but it's still far from complete.


    Normally I scoff at those caught up desktop wallpapers and "kewl"
    schemes. However I sure wish I could find how to make my own scheme. In
    my case I get eye strain from staring at a light background with dark
    test. Other than that I can live with I have seen so far albeit there are
    several KDE applets then are literally part of my life. My schedules and
    appointments are controlled by really easy to use KDE applets. However
    I'm sure Gnome has equivalents.

    >> One day perhaps I will learn enough so as to understand both in great
    >> depth. I feel pretty darn good about KDE right now but Gnome has become
    >> a black box to me over the last five years. I fact my first encounter
    >> before".


    > Your world is about to be turned upside down. With the advent
    > of freedesktop.org's d-bus, KDE4 will migrate totally away from
    > DCOP to using d-bus. Which in short, means that KDE4 will be
    > broken for awhile.


    > freedesktop.org + KDE = KDE4... and a really big mess...


    Hmmm. Well fortunately I proceed very cautiously with distro upgrades. As
    I mentioned Slack is my workhorse and still use version 11. I have 12
    installed but it takes me a good 2-3 months before I feel comfortable
    enough to up the version level. Part of that is because I have so many
    accumulated tweaks, a preference for certain versions of some apps and
    so on. However I really have no need to upgrade. All my hardware is
    supported and I have no trouble installing a later stock kernel.

    But every once in a while a new app comes along that is must have and
    requires an upgrade. For me they are very rare but have occurred a time
    or two.

    > 10.3 comes pre-configured with warts and all!! There are pros and
    > cons to 10.3. And 11 isn't going to fix ANY of it... in fact,
    > there will be twice as many variables in 11... so I anticipate
    > a lot of work ahead.


    A well appreciated warning.

    >> I remember the day I was so overjoyed that I finally got a huge 540MB
    >> HD for $500


    > My first hard drive was a 60MB SCSI drive I purchased for my
    > Amiga for a low price of $800 (including controller).


    It unbelievable when you think that storage has improved by a factor of
    1000 ! had a big first HD - 240MB, IDE

    > Just remember openSUSE is NOT necessarily an improvement to something
    > like 10.1/10.2. In some ways yes... and in some ways no. But in


    There was an issue for me with 10.2 that I just could not resolve. Again,
    I do so much of this testing I can't even recall what is was so that was
    the reason I used 10.1. But so far I have not encountered anything but a
    very minor annoyance with 10.3. I've spent no more than about 15 minutes
    frustration time (you know, when progress stops and you go in circles)
    and that was but one incident.


    ....You can always tell the pioneers by the arrows in their back.


    --
    Email - rsgibson@verizon.borg
    Replace borg with net
    If its Tourist Season, why can't we shoot 'em ???


  14. Re: Suse 10.3 and DVD::RIP

    David Bolt wrote:
    > I prefer that as well. I even opened a bug just over a year ago (10.3a2)
    > about YaST copying the kernel append options from the installation to
    > that of the installed system but changing any splash= options to
    > splash=silent. Unfortunately, that bug was assigned to the
    > yast2-bootloader maintainer and has since been passed around by a few
    > people. It's still open and now just appends a splash=silent instead of
    > changing the given option, so the problem still exists in 11.0a3 :|


    Do not forget to ping it once every so often.

    houghi
    --
    You can have my keyboard ...
    if you can pry it from my dead, cold, stiff fingers

  15. Re: Suse 10.3 and DVD::RIP

    Ron Gibson wrote:
    > Approximately 5 years ago all the distros could do this easily. Then
    > Gnome began to sort of fork off and became increasingly unfriendly to
    > compile and install.


    As we are a openSUSE group, that is what I am talking about. There is NO
    unfriendlyness in running KDE with some of GNOME, GNome with some of
    KDE, both or neither or any combination.

    The fact that compilation has become more complex is inherent at
    software. People want more, so more gets added. The fact that this might
    be problematic to compile is none of my business.

    > With Mandriva you can also do the same. I mentioned that it's package
    > manager shows all files that will be installed. When you see how much
    > has to be installed to run one Gnome-centric app on a KDE system you
    > might exclaim, "Good grief. I have to install 75 MB of stuff to run a 2
    > MB application ???".


    With the prices of HD space now, this is hardly an issue. You are going
    to make DVDs. That means several GB at least. How much is a full
    openSUSE instalation? If you can install everything you find and still
    want a working thing, you might get to 50GB and that is about it.

    The thing is that if you only install 1 program, that would need 75MB.
    However the second might need nothing extra. So the more you install,
    the less importand that becomes.

    > This is very inefficient and poor design. One question I raise is whether
    > that inefficiency is by accident or design. Gnome started on it's
    > divergence about the same time some Dead Rat started making deals with
    > traditional cooperate vendors.


    It was about the same time it started reaining outside. And you are
    wrong in the asumption that it is bad design. It might be that you would
    prefer a different method, but that does not make it bad.

    > The result is yes it can be done but you end up with a precarious
    > balance with each new iteration of Gnome (and KDE but to a lesser
    > degree). Compounding the problem is that Gnome is a real PITA to compile
    > and package even when there is no KDE around at all.


    So who cares if it is a PITA to compile? You do not need to compile it
    if you think it is a pain. It is your choise to do so. I do not waste my
    time by compiling things mysef, if somebody else already has done that.

    I rather spend my time on something that the person who does the
    compiling does not have time for to do. That way we both gain.

    > So Pat Vokerling Slackware founder and author has stated that in order
    > to put forth the best product he and his team can no longer devote that
    > much time on Gnome when they are working on a new release. So he dropped
    > the Gnome desktop. Now it appears what he said outright other distros
    > have not, while quietly taking the same approach.


    No idea, but Novell spends much people on both KDE and GNOME (and other
    things as well)

    > Backing up as I said 5 years ago this was not an issue. In the time
    > since then I see little that has changed with Gnome other than it
    > becoming such a PITA.


    5 years ago the demands were different.

    > And what happens is there is a Suse way to attack the problem, a Mandriva
    > way to attack the problem and so on which creates a fragmented Linux
    > Community regarding how to resolve these issues and IMO that is not a
    > good thing.


    I( am not sure I follow you here. Both take the source and compile it,
    so users can install it. At least I asume others are doing that as well.

    > So in summary my objections to all of this are based on the principals
    > of the Open Software movement and as a user wanting to understand how
    > each Desktop works. In order for me to increase that knowledge it's
    > best not to mix the two so I can first study each in isolation from the
    > other.


    Uh, I am not every user then. I do not care how my desktop works. I just
    want it to work. Because of OS, I can choose which one I want. openSUSE
    gives you the option to install the two larger ones by default, yet I
    selected another one.

    That _you_ like to have them seperately is an option _you_ selected.
    That does not mean that all the rest is bad or good. It sounds as if you
    are frustrated by the choice you made, because it is harder then it was
    5 years ago.

    > One day perhaps I will learn enough so as to understand both in great
    > depth. I feel pretty darn good about KDE right now but Gnome has become
    > a black box to me over the last five years. I fact my first encounter
    > with these issues came when I was trying to compile an app, and it
    > bombed saying it needed XYZ. So I added that and then it bombed saying
    > yet another thing was needed and then another and another at which point
    > I said "Good grief. What is going on here? I never had to do this
    > before".


    For most people this is not an issue. The standard answer here is always
    'install via repo'.

    > Not that's been a while so I don't recall exact details. Since that time
    > I've had occasion to try to compile apps like DVD::RIP and started
    > seeing the same type failures. Well having been down that road before I
    > know it's gonna lead to a very frustrating experience and I give up IN
    > EXPECTATION of what is going to follow if I continue. So I don't bother
    > to chase down the exact problems anymore.


    And for that reason we advise people to just install via the repo. No
    pain with recompiling things and trying to solve issues and
    dependencies.


    > Having said all that there is certainly nothing wrong with doing it
    > like you do. For one Suse is your base distro. Mine is Slackware and
    > they are different. A task or tweak that takes me a few seconds in Slack
    > might take an hour for me in Suse. Likewise a task that takes you a few
    > minutes in Suse might take an hour in Slack.


    If you can do it in slack, you will most likely be able to do the same
    thing in openSUSE. It could be that the location of the file is not
    where you expect it, but that is about it.

    To find the file, you can use locate or pin under openSUSE.

    There is no difference between /etc/fstab under openSUSE or slack, I
    asume. That is just an example/

    > Which path you take in issues like this depends on what you cut your
    > linux teeth on and with what you've spent the most time with since then.
    >
    > That must be balanced with what tasks you do every day and how much time
    > you have left over for "exploration".
    >
    > Having said all of that I sure would like to see version 10.3 of
    > Suse/KDE. As I mentioned 10.2 give me a real hassle for some reason so
    > I had dropped back to 10.1. Now 10.3 appears to me to be much more
    > polished. I know if was gonna go the rpm route Suse would be the first
    > choice hands down. IMO installing Dead Rat is like becoming an Alpha
    > tester. It's not even close Suse is so far superior.


    11.0 will be even better. Why not just download the DVD? That way you
    have both KDE and GNOME

    > Perhaps in about 3-4 months I'll be able to free space (I am working
    > with anther test install so I have three Linux distros now). I expect to
    > have completed one project in a few months, maybe sooner. then I'll have
    > the space I like to have. Geez I just bought anther 160GB drive to handle
    > video overflow. Right now my total usable storage capacity is about
    > .75TB.


    Then 11.0 will be out with KDE 4, most likely. And about that space,
    wern't yu first moaning about 'wasting' 75MB?

    > I remember the day I was so overjoyed that I finally got a huge 540MB
    > HD for $500


    :-D

    To sumarize: There is a different aproach, Yours is to compile stuff and
    get frustrated while learning a lot. openSUSE is directed at installing
    pre-compiled stuff.

    If you desire to still compile, even though working pre-compiled things
    are avaiable, you might be looking at the source RPMs and use them.

    houghi
    --
    You can have my keyboard ...
    if you can pry it from my dead, cold, stiff fingers

  16. Re: Suse 10.3 and DVD::RIP

    Chris Cox wrote:
    > Agreed. It's really whatever you are used to doing. Sometimes
    > YaST (for example) can make a complicated task lightning fast.... BUT
    > if YaST does it wrong... it can create a nightmare (don't see that
    > too much anymore).


    I see a different reason for using CLI over YaST. Often YaST does not go
    down into each and every detail that you could use.

    > Just remember openSUSE is NOT necessarily an improvement to something
    > like 10.1/10.2. In some ways yes... and in some ways no. But in
    > general the big issues in 10.1 are fixed... so most would say
    > it's a worthwhile install (upgrade more difficult since the new
    > libata is in play in 10.3... /dev/hda becomes /dev/sda, etc).


    That last one was a stupid move. hda became sda, hde becme sde and
    /etc/fstab is full of disk names where I have no idea what they are
    talking about.

    So I rather do /etc/fstab myself. An example:

    /dev/disk/by-id/ata-Maxtor_6Y160P0_Y43GQWTE-part2
    /dev/disk/by-id/ata-Maxtor_6Y160P0_Y446MAZE-part2

    One mounted to /media/home the other to /media/old. Both not used for
    several months, so I have no idea which one is which.

    Now I would like to install a new distro in dualboot. Which one is
    /dev/hdb1, which is what I need.

    It would be even more of a mess if I had even more HD's with almost the
    same name.

    houghi
    --
    You can have my keyboard ...
    if you can pry it from my dead, cold, stiff fingers

  17. Re: Suse 10.3 and DVD::RIP

    On Fri, 11 Apr 2008, houghi wrote:-



    >hda became sda, hde becme sde and
    >/etc/fstab is full of disk names where I have no idea what they are
    >talking about.


    Not on my systems they're not. I learnt from your experience of almost
    overwriting a wanted file system some time back and so always use disc
    labels. That way I know just what each file system is for.

    >So I rather do /etc/fstab myself. An example:
    >
    >/dev/disk/by-id/ata-Maxtor_6Y160P0_Y43GQWTE-part2
    >/dev/disk/by-id/ata-Maxtor_6Y160P0_Y446MAZE-part2


    Mine has the lovely looking entries:

    LABEL=_
    LABEL=swap_sda
    LABEL=swap_sdb

    There are a few more that are mounted the same way, and then there are
    those file systems that are contained in a logical volume and so have
    /dev/system/${file.system.name} entries.

    >One mounted to /media/home the other to /media/old. Both not used for
    >several months, so I have no idea which one is which.


    It only takes a couple of commands, which is a little more work than it
    should be, to find out which is which:

    find /dev/disk/by-id -lname ../../hdb1

    For one of my 10.3 systems, using sda1 instead, I would get:

    davjam@dav2:~> find /dev/disk/by-id -lname ../../sda1
    /dev/disk/by-id/edd-int13_dev80-part1
    /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ExcelStor_Technology_J8080_PV6704Q3A4BURB-part1
    /dev/disk/by-id/scsi-SATA_ExcelStor_Techn_PV6704Q3A4BURB-part1

    >Now I would like to install a new distro in dualboot. Which one is
    >/dev/hdb1, which is what I need.


    This is the problem with the new naming convention. It makes it a lot
    harder for those that would like to install other distributions
    alongside the already install systems.

    >It would be even more of a mess if I had even more HD's with almost the
    >same name.


    Russian roulette anyone?


    Regards,
    David Bolt

    --
    www.davjam.org/lifetype/ www.distributed.net: OGR@100Mnodes, RC5-72@15Mkeys
    SUSE 10.1 32bit | openSUSE 10.2 32bit | openSUSE 10.3 32bit | openSUSE 11.0a1
    SUSE 10.1 64bit | openSUSE 10.2 64bit | openSUSE 10.3 64bit
    RISC OS 3.6 | TOS 4.02 | openSUSE 10.3 PPC |RISC OS 3.11

  18. Re: Suse 10.3 and DVD::RIP

    David

    I don't suppose you've got any handy hints about going the other way do you.
    I need to convert from .avi to .mpg to burn to DVD because I have an old
    DVD player that won't handle DivX.

    At the moment I'm using

    ffmpeg -i source.avi -target dvd output.mpg which isn't too bad. I was
    wondering if things could be improved?

    Regards

  19. Re: Suse 10.3 and DVD::RIP

    Gilbert wrote:
    > David



    Please start with a new subject and tread if you want to ask something.
    Also best ask questions in general, otherwise people who might know the
    answer won't answer.

    houghi
    --
    You can have my keyboard ...
    if you can pry it from my dead, cold, stiff fingers

  20. Re: Suse 10.3 and DVD::RIP

    houghi wrote:

    > Gilbert wrote:
    >> David

    >
    >
    > Please start with a new subject and tread if you want to ask something.
    > Also best ask questions in general, otherwise people who might know the
    > answer won't answer.
    >
    > houghi


    I take your point, it's just that discsussion of formatting has already
    happened inthis thread


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